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Author Topic: Where's the new forum Theymos?  (Read 450 times)
enzogla (OP)
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July 11, 2021, 02:07:21 AM
Merited by The Sceptical Chymist (2), ABCbits (1)
 #1

Back in 2013, user "Matthew N. Wright" created this thread.

12 months ago I donated 10 BTC to you to make a new forum. You have since then collected over 6000 BTC and continue to collect on a regular basis, under the guise of "creating a new forum", yet you have yet to create a new forum.

Please present a status report of your progress in the past 12 months with creating the forum. Thanks.

In 2015, user "JarvisTechnology" created this thread. According to it, it was meant to come in February 2015.

I'm not complaining. Just would like to know when to expect the new forum. I understand that you have problaby run into issues and are in the process of adding new features.

Is it going to be this year or maybe early next year?

User "From Above" creates this thread.

i know ETA cant really be provided, but theymos, let us know buddy!

will it come this year (2015) or how likely is that?
or rather next year?

ThX

Timeline (as far as I can see)
~June 2012: User "Matthew N. Wright" donates 10 BTC for the development of the new forum
June 17th, 2013: User "Matthew N. Wright" asks about that development of the new forum, mentions his 10 BTC donation and also asks for a status report regarding the last 12 months of development. link
May 2015: User "JarvisTechnology" asks about the progress development and understands that theymos could have run into some issues. JarvisTechnology asks when the new forum will come. link
May 2015: User "From Above" asks for an ETA for the new forum. No reply. link
October 2017: The question arises again, by user "thefreshprinceofbell" link

Am I completely missing something? Are we no longer working on the new forum? It's been like 9 years...
If this is meant to be the beta, it doesn't even load for me: http://beta.bitcointalk.org
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July 11, 2021, 02:13:36 AM
 #2

Epochtalk is supposedly the "new" forum software that's being worked on. But yea, it's been a while.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=167.0
https://epochtalk.org/
https://github.com/epochtalk

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July 11, 2021, 02:33:00 AM
 #3

Some sources for the new forum software

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July 11, 2021, 02:57:19 AM
 #4

But yea, it's been a while.
That's quite the understatement.  The new forum software was being talked about when I joined the forum over 6 years ago, as OP pointed out, and I'm confident that if Theymos really wanted to upgrade bitcointalk he could easily do so in a much shorter time period.  He's got access to the necessary funds and I'm pretty sure he'd have all the coders he'd need, because if that were the bottleneck there would be tons of members stepping up to help.

So I've no clue what the deal is with this mythical epochtalk version of the forum, nor do I care personally.  I happen to like this version just the way it is, without many changes to the look and feel and function of it.  However, I do find it very odd that this thing has been strung along for so many years without an explanation as to why that's the case (or at least I've never heard one, but I'll confess that I have the New Forum Software subsection on ignore, so I could be missing one if it exists).

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July 11, 2021, 03:00:42 AM
 #5

Theymos wants the new forum software tested for security flaws. I think this is the primary hold up. There are a bunch of PRs that have sat idle for months+ so I don’t know that it is being actively worked on, although there may be hidden branches that are being used.

I don’t think the new forum software is going to be implemented anytime soon.
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July 11, 2021, 04:06:29 AM
 #6

Theymos wants the new forum software tested for security flaws. I think this is the primary hold up.

This shouldn't take 9 years...


I happen to like this version just the way it is, without many changes to the look and feel and function of it.  However, I do find it very odd that this thing has been strung along for so many years without an explanation as to why that's the case (or at least I've never heard one, but I'll confess that I have the New Forum Software subsection on ignore, so I could be missing one if it exists).

Honestly? I think I agree with you.
But, as I mentioned in this thread, there are just small stupid things that just NEED to be updated. These small things should take no more than a few days to fix. It's kind of ridiculous honestly
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July 11, 2021, 05:16:03 AM
 #7

Theymos wants the new forum software tested for security flaws. I think this is the primary hold up.

This shouldn't take 9 years...


I happen to like this version just the way it is, without many changes to the look and feel and function of it.  However, I do find it very odd that this thing has been strung along for so many years without an explanation as to why that's the case (or at least I've never heard one, but I'll confess that I have the New Forum Software subsection on ignore, so I could be missing one if it exists).

Honestly? I think I agree with you.
But, as I mentioned in this thread, there are just small stupid things that just NEED to be updated. These small things should take no more than a few days to fix. It's kind of ridiculous honestly

Honestly tell me how many people here want the new forum to be out here ? I don't think many people want the change as they are happy with the current forum. Maybe the demand of the new forum is not so high and therefore we are having a delay in it development/testing. Maybe we need to deploy a poll and see if people really needs a new forum ?
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July 11, 2021, 06:55:52 AM
 #8

I'm confident that if Theymos really wanted to upgrade bitcointalk he could easily do so in a much shorter time period.
That's correct but it doesn't make sense to introduce it before it has passed all of its tests [it'll be a workaround that might introduce other problems as opposed to a solution].

I'm pretty sure he'd have all the coders he'd need, because if that were the bottleneck there would be tons of members stepping up to help.
The last time I checked, he was the only one [not sure if that's still the case], and in regards to the latter part, I don't think it's that easy to hire a coder/programmer/developer without ulterior motives.

without an explanation as to why that's the case
Am I completely missing something?
Here you go: Link

~Snipped~
The things blocking a transition from the current software to the new software are:
 - There hasn't been enough testing. I think that immediately after transition, a variety of small missed features, bugs, and performance issues would crop up. As a result, if the transition happened now (which is technically possible!), I'd expect the post-transition user experience to be poor for months while these things are fixed, which I don't want.
 - I am the only bitcointalk.org sysadmin and on-demand programmer, and I'm used to the current software. Furthermore, I need to frequently make changes to the current software, but each change I make might require alterations to Epochtalk, which is problematic.
 - The current PHP software, while ugly and sub-optimal in many ways, performs well, especially since I have extensively modified the backend to add features and improve performance. So I don't feel much urgency.
 - The data-transition procedure still has a few known minor bugs.
~Snipped~

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July 11, 2021, 08:20:08 AM
 #9

Honestly tell me how many people here want the new forum to be out here ? I don't think many people want the change as they are happy with the current forum. Maybe the demand of the new forum is not so high and therefore we are having a delay in it development/testing. Maybe we need to deploy a poll and see if people really needs a new forum ?
The forum software has been requested many times and various features which have been requested here are expected to be functioning on the new software, furthermore, I do not think general opinion actually matters as the project is already too far gone to be halted with so much money being invested already.
If the holdup is due to low testing, I believe there could have been an alternative solution beside getting volunteer testers for the website.

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July 11, 2021, 09:09:16 AM
 #10

Here you go: Link
Well, that was 2019, nearly 3 years ago. IIRC, the development for epochtalk started quite a while back but has been quite a few years since then. Cobra once mentioned that millions were spent on this; also quite a while back.

I can't find any updates later than that though...

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July 11, 2021, 09:15:16 AM
Last edit: July 11, 2021, 06:52:57 PM by nutildah
 #11

I think the forum should stay as is.

This forum is kind of like a Bitcoin Museum that was built by Satoshi, and we should leave it that way (I realize its already different from the first iteration)...

I just can't imagine coming to a hip, modernized forum to read Satoshi's initial posts...

The forum gets the job done: people are free to express themselves any way they so choose...

Spam will always be a problem so long as there are sig campaigns and bounties, regardless of what software the forum uses.

Theymos should airdrop the forum donations to all active accounts with addresses in their profile. Beginning with accounts that start with "n"

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July 11, 2021, 10:40:53 AM
 #12

You can also Join the discord Server that was created from Cyrus when the Bitcoin halfing party was going on.
There is a Channel in there for the new Forum Software and you get notification when a new repo is done and what was done in this Channel.
Im on Mobile now and will post the discord Link laters.
But for now im also good how the Forum is as written from nutildah.

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July 11, 2021, 04:39:39 PM
 #13

I don't think there should be any need for hurrying to release the new software since it's to correct the flaws of the old software and also contains some useful update that will make the forum more attractive t for use. Am sure at the end the new software will meet up to everyone's expectations.
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July 11, 2021, 05:44:19 PM
Last edit: July 11, 2021, 06:22:31 PM by worldofcoins
 #14

Theymos wants the new forum software tested for security flaws. I think this is the primary hold up.

This shouldn't take 9 years...

Actually yes 9 years is a lot of time even for testing, Maybe theymos hasn't made up his mind as to if there should be a new forum.
This forum is already meeting all the needs of the users, most likely new forum will be for aesthetics to adapt to the needs of a new generation that sees eye candy first and information provided later.

Some questions - Will the new forum replace the current forum, Will it share the database of this forum so that we wouldn't have to start our journey again?
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July 11, 2021, 06:11:25 PM
Merited by FatFork (1)
 #15

I'm confident that if Theymos really wanted to upgrade bitcointalk he could easily do so in a much shorter time period.
That's correct but it doesn't make sense to introduce it before it has passed all of its tests [it'll be a workaround that might introduce other problems as opposed to a solution].
I get that, but my point is that it's been years now.  How many tests need to be passed and how long does that take?  Again I'll admit that I'm not a computer programmer, but my gut is telling me that there's no way it should be taking this long with the resources Theymos must have at his disposal.

I'm pretty sure he'd have all the coders he'd need, because if that were the bottleneck there would be tons of members stepping up to help.
The last time I checked, he was the only one [not sure if that's still the case], and in regards to the latter part, I don't think it's that easy to hire a coder/programmer/developer without ulterior motives.

I hear what you're saying, but I'm not buying it.  Even if a coder/programmer/developer had ulterior motives (and I seriously doubt Theymos wouldn't be able to find someone who didn't have such nefarious motives), I don't think Theymos or anyone else would have a problem checking to see that no malicious code was introduced or something else of that nature.  And if he's doing this all by himself, I'd have to ask myself "why?".  Every company that needs code written has it done by a team--to my understanding at least.  Granted, bitcointalk isn't a company, but it's not a one-man operation either.

Am I completely missing something?
I said there was a possibility that I'd completely missed such an explanation, and it turns out I did.  Thank you to SFR for quoting it.

I guess in the end I'm just being skeptical, and again, it's without the benefit of having any coding/programming experience, so in reality I don't know exactly what it takes to accomplish what Theymos is trying to do.  But as I also said, my gut is telling me (strongly) that it shouldn't take as many years as it has to upgrade the forum--and it still hasn't been upgraded, and it doesn't seem like that's going to happen in the near future.

This is what I have in my head, especially after reading the quote from Theymos:

I get the impression that Theymos is a brilliant person.
I know the forum has a lot of funds at its disposal.  
I think there are tons of members who are willing to lend a hand--which probably include some that he trusts.  
I know that code is something that can be analyzed for anything malicious, which would make it very hard for someone to sabotage the new forum software.
I have a very hard time believing a forum upgrade should take years to complete, unless it's only being worked on very infrequently.
I think Theymos is aiming for absolute perfection, and to his detriment.  
I wonder if, by the time he's finished, the new forum software might already be outdated.

But in the end....I don't care, as I said in my previous post.  I'm satisfied with the forum as it is and if Theymos never finishes the new software, I'd be fine with that.  However, since we're discussing it I wanted to voice my perception of the whole thing.  I could be wrong in several areas, and I don't mind being called out on it.  It's how I learn.

I think the forum should stay as is.
Hear, hear.

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Quickseller
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July 11, 2021, 08:53:19 PM
 #16

Theymos wants the new forum software tested for security flaws. I think this is the primary hold up.

This shouldn't take 9 years...
I am not entirely sure, but it is possible that theymos does not have the resources to test for security flaws, meaning he does not know who he can ask to test the forum software for security issues.

There is (or at least was) a lot of business conducted via the forum, and as such, the forum is a big security target, if there are available exploits, they will be tried on the forum, while a forum in which people talk about football might have multiple glaring security flaws, and no one will care to exploit them as there wouldn't be anything to gain from doing so.

This forum is kind of like a Bitcoin Museum that was built by Satoshi, and we should leave it that way (I realize its already different from the first iteration)...
The forum uses SMF software. Satoshi likely did little more than install the SMF software on the forum server, and possibly changed some configurations. Satoshi did not create SMF (most likely), and there are thousands of other forums that also run on SMF software.

The majority of modifications to the forum software were done by theymos, or someone hired by theymos.
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July 12, 2021, 04:38:51 AM
 #17

Was theymos used to ask for donations for development of new forum? Wow

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July 12, 2021, 04:49:31 AM
 #18

Was theymos used to ask for donations for development of new forum? Wow
Bear in mind that 1 btc was probably couple of hundreds of dollars 9 years ago when new forum development started, so quite different than how much it is now.

Regarding the new forum, since it's been in development for so long long, maybe it's for the best to just ditch the idea and instead improve the current one with a couple of features, if possible.

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July 12, 2021, 05:29:02 AM
 #19

Epochtalk is supposedly the "new" forum software that's being worked on. But yea, it's been a while.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=167.0
https://epochtalk.org/
https://github.com/epochtalk

So what did theymos do with the 6,000 BTC he apparently got donated for the development of the new forum? Were these maybe spent on the hosting of the current site?
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July 12, 2021, 09:07:07 AM
Merited by ndalliard (1)
 #20

I guess I would be outnumbered when I say "don't fix it if it isn't broken". I wouldn't mind if the forum stayed the way it is. The new generations don't like forums anyway because there are other and faster methods of communicating. I'm not convinced that creating a new modern forum would do much in generating an increased interest in Bitcointalk. What it will do is create various bugs and glitches and user complaints.   

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