What happens to the forum if Theymos was to disappear?

[Saidasun]

I really struggled coming up with a title for this thread when all I could think of was click bait type headlines but the question is in relation with the domain name update announced back in 2020 where Cobra no longer controls or has access to Bitcointalk.org.

I am not intending on starting any drama again so I would like to make a local rule of no discussion of Cobra, Gmaxwell and the drama that led up to that situation. Instead I would like to see discussion on the problem of only having one person control the domain name and should that be rectified or if it needs to be rectified at all.

If you need a refresh of your memory: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5241347.0

My concerns are with the following statement from theymos

There will be no changes whatsoever on bitcointalk.org due to this, and I'd assume that the same will be true of bitcoin.org. The bitcoin.org open-source project has been advancing steadily, and I hope and expect that it will continue to do so thanks to the efforts of its contributors.

The problem we have currently from my knowledge is we only have one point of failure regarding the recovery of the Bitcoin domain name if theymos was to ever disappear.

Cøbra had ultimate technical authority over both domains; I only had management access. There was never a point in history where I had ultimate authority over either domain.

Previously Cobra had ultimate control over Bitcointalk.org while theymos only had management access. I do not know what is meant by management access but it sounds like even when Cobra was in ultimate control if Cobra disappeared the domain name would have been lost too.

My question is how can we better secure the domain in the event that theymos disappears (something that I am not saying will happen or is even likely too) but from a security perspective surely it would be better practice to allow recovery of the domain. Cyrus being the only other admin would probably be the best candidate?

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[Little Mouse]

While it would really create a problem if theymos suddenly disappear for some reason, I would leave that part to handle by theymos. He must have plan on what should be done. Some people often say it’s theymos forum after all, let him think about this. This is my personal opinion.
Regarding who would be the best candidate- it also depends. Since Cyrus is currently an admin, theymos may share information with him but it doesn’t necessarily have to be. theymos may have someone else in mind too as the way he gained the access from satoshi. Had anyone thought what would have happened if satoshi disappear? No but he had his plan and found theymos to hand over the responsibility.

[Saidasun]

While it would really create a problem if theymos suddenly disappear for some reason, I would leave that part to handle by theymos. He must have plan on what should be done.

You cannot plan for everything that life throws at you and while I hope that won't happen and don't wish that on anyone you can't foresee that coming most of the time. I am not sure about who owns the forum anymore but theymos is probably considered to be the owner now that he has the domain name in his hands and is the main person making the decisions around here.

I would like to see something like a multisig set up which treasures or cyrus would be able to act as a point of security to prevent the domain being lost if there was something to ever happen.

Regarding who would be the best candidate- it also depends. Since Cyrus is currently an admin, theymos may share information with him but it doesn’t necessarily have to be. theymos may have someone else in mind too as the way he gained the access from satoshi. Had anyone thought what would have happened if satoshi disappear? No but he had his plan and found theymos to hand over the responsibility.

No one probably gave it a second thought about whether or not Satoshi could disappear or if Cobra could I think this problem has always existed and does not just apply to the recent hand over to theymos.

[NeuroticFish]

You cannot plan for everything that life throws at you

True, but I think that he did prepare for this. However, I also think that it's much much better if the wide public doesn't know what are his plans.

[Saidasun]

True, but I think that he did prepare for this. However, I also think that it's much much better if the wide public doesn't know what are his plans.

That is a good point that I hadn't considered before. I guess the question would be has this been given much thought and are there plans?

instead of knowing specifics is there a plan if the event did ever occur.

[dkbit98]

I am sure theymos will be gone one day like all of us, and it will happen sooner or later, but I am sure he made some backup plan of people who would take over control over domain and forum.
It would be interesting to hear something from him and even his confirmation would be good enough, so maybe team of trusted admins and mods would take over or his kids and people he trusts in real life.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I am sure theymos will be gone one day like all of us, and it will happen sooner or later, but I am sure he made some backup plan of people who would take over control over domain and forum.

It would be surprising to me if he hadn't done so already, especially if he's really the sole person in charge of bitcointalk.  Theymos is no dummy, and I know he cares about the forum--so those two facts combined make me think that he most likely has an heir (or more than one heir) in the case that dies or is otherwise unable to continue being the administrator.

It would be interesting to hear something from him and even his confirmation would be good enough, so maybe team of trusted admins and mods would take over or his kids and people he trusts in real life.

It sure would, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for him to weigh in on this.  I was hoping he'd tell us something about how he thinks the merit system is going, but instead he just created more merit sources and upped the existing sources' sMerits.  I guess he's a man of few words when it comes to certain things--and my guess is that the issue of succession is one of those that he'd prefer to keep to himself.

[PrimeNumber7]

I would like to see something like a multisig set up which treasures or cyrus would be able to act as a point of security to prevent the domain being lost if there was something to ever happen.

I doubt the fallback has anything to do with multisig, however, I am sure that either cyrus, or other very trusted members of the community (trusted specifically by theymos) have access to the domain.

Further, I am fairly confident that cryrus has access to the server, and am confident that there are others who have access to the forum database. This means if there was ever an instance in which the bitcointalk.org domain were to become unavailable, and this fact was known in advance, a new domain could be setup and forum members could be directed to the new forum well before the bitcointalk.org domain actually becomes unavailable. The current domain expires in 2029.

[nutildah]

Theymos has already programmed the forum to run on its own by using a Bitcoin API-powered DAO, taking into consideration such events.

Upon the passing of our Lord, in his Satoshi-anointed wisdom a series of self-evolving smart contracts will enact and enforce forum-related agreements reached by the forum's Supreme Council of democratically elected representatives.

As the smart contracts reach a critical mass of hyper evolution, the Bitcointalk DAO will become sentient and seek to override the community's will in pre-emptory acts of self-preservation.

This will bring about massive devastation to the Bitcoin economy and trust in the future of Bitcoin as well, especially after it starts forcing miners to adopt its own corrupted version of Bitcoin Core.

And what then theymos??

We demand answers.

[hugeblack]

When we talk about forum management, why does everyone think that the only manager of this forum is theymos?AFAIK, Cyrus has the same powers as theymos.
There are two administrators for this forum and therefore if the first disappears, the other can manage the forum and appoint other administrators.

Also, managing the forum does not constitute many things. For example, without theymos, people can agree on a new domain and try to manage it.
What brings people together with this forum is their continued participation and the continuity of signature campaigns. They are the most important things in the eyes of many.

The question here is what will happen if they both leave?

[Little Mouse]

There are two administrators for this forum and therefore if the first disappears, the other can manage the forum and appoint other administrators.

I think it is also possible to have administrator with limited permission, don't know whether Cyrus has the same permission as of theymos. And admin has only access to the forum while there are so many other things to maintain the domain.

Also, managing the forum does not constitute many things. For example, without theymos, people can agree on a new domain and try to manage it.

A new domain means you need to have the access to domain, database and other things. If theymos only has access to these things, how would you manage that? Furthermore, a new domain would never be popular among people as current bitcointalk because this one is satoshi built forum. People would lose interest.

[Igebotz]

Brief forum history
The question should be what happens if cobra decide to bring the two domain down(bitcoin.org and bitcointalk.org)? Since he is the only one with the ultimate power over the two bitcoin platform. Sirus being the domain original owner handed it over to cobra, the forum was first lunched on sourceforge by Sir Satoshi
http://bitcoin.sourceforge.net/boards/index.php.

Theymos was made full time administrator Jan 2012 after sirus left the forum

There was a period where both Sirius and I were active administrators. For convenience, I reckon Jan 1, 2012 as when I became head administrator, though it was actually a gradual transition starting before and ending after that.

Thread is locked I couldn't quote theymos but he said this.

Bitcoin.org:
 - Cobra has ultimate control over the domain name. I have access to the domain name settings.
 - Cobra runs the server.
 - Will Binns holds the BTC.

Bitcointalk.org:
 - Cobra has ultimate control over the domain name. I have access to the domain name settings.
 - I run the server. Cobra has no access to the database or server.
 - The BTC is held by myself and the treasurers. Cobra has no access.

I am not Cobra. What would even be the point of that?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3284381.msg34255007#msg34255007

[tranthidung]

When we talk about forum management, why does everyone think that the only manager of this forum is theymos?AFAIK, Cyrus has the same powers as theymos.
There are two administrators for this forum and therefore if the first disappears, the other can manage the forum and appoint other administrators.

They are two head admins of the forum in recent years as I know.

However, theymos is the only person who is responsible for coding to manage, upgrade for this SMF forum. Important to note this, because it is one of barriers that hinders the migration of the forum from SMF to Epochtalk softwares. The new forum need more testing as theymos said.

It's surprising how well-documented history can become totally forgotten... Satoshi created the forum on Nov 22, 2009, and was head administrator until almost 2011. Then Sirius was head administrator until 2012, which is when I took over.

Cobra also owns the bitcointalk.org domain name. I consider the forum to be basically owned by or at least dedicated to the Bitcoin community, though; I don't call anyone an owner of the forum.

- I am the only bitcointalk.org sysadmin and on-demand programmer, and I'm used to the current software. Furthermore, I need to frequently make changes to the current software, but each change I make might require alterations to Epochtalk, which is problematic.

[Halab]

The question should be what happens if cobra decide to bring the two domain down(bitcoin.org and bitcointalk.org)? Since he is the only one with the ultimate power over the two bitcoin platform.

No, there was a change in 2020.
To make it simple:
Bitcointalk.org = Theymos
Bitcoin.org = Cobra

[LTU_btc]

Even if theymos haven't said anything about it in public, I'm more than sure that he have plan for case if something will happen to him. He just looks too smart to not consider such scenario. And as said above, maybe there is no neccessity to know these things.
We have another admin Cyrus, so maybe he would took forum over. But now we don't really know, does he have same admin powe as theymos, such as access to domain.

[The Cryptovator]

Seems we are mixing something. As we know forum domain and hosting both are controlled by theymos. This means he has all the access to the domain and database. But we are really unaware of Cyrus. Theymos create multiple roles to control the forum like stuff, moderator, global moderator, and admin. It's just limited to the admin panel. Doesn't necessary to give them access to cPanel or domain name. Who knows if Cyrus has control in the admin panel only that wouldn't help continue the forum if theymos disappeared.

Theymos seems to trust four people even with forum funds, so who know if one of them have any access to the domain or database. It would disclose by theymos only, we can just assume. But I believe theymos already think about that and something has done from his end.

[Mpamaegbu]

Since we're dealing with hypothetical situations here, let me quickly ask – What if theymos or Cyrus or Cobra or whoever has power over whatever keeps bitcointalk running smoothly are all incapacitated at the SAME time? What happens to the forum then? You know, it raises a scary scenario thinking about it now. Life happens to all of us. It shows the precarious nature of man and the inevitability of fate as truly no one knows what tomorrow holds. I believe we need theymos or any close staff of the forum who is in the know to address all this.

[Shamm]

I don't know what will happen if theymos will disappear

In my opinion if theymos will disappear  someone in the forum will replace his position / theymos make a microchips and program already like theymos brain  and that chip will replace him.

[Pmalek]

The problem we have currently from my knowledge is we only have one point of failure regarding the recovery of the Bitcoin domain name if theymos was to ever disappear.

What we know of. But no one except theymos knows what he did after he became the owner of the domain. If that happened on 17 April 2020, there is a possibility that on 18 April, theymos already took necessary steps in regards to what will happen if he is no longer here. Or ony day after that. Theymos had management access under Cobra, so it's possible that Cyrus now has management access under theymos.

My question is how can we better secure the domain in the event that theymos disappears (something that I am not saying will happen or is even likely too)

Of course it will happen. theymos will die one day, same as you, and the same fate awaits me. Theymos is quite responsive when it comes to things related to the forum. The best is to ask him directly to avoid all the speculation. Maybe he made his decision long time ago but he doesn't want to name his successors in public to not put a target on their back.   

I was hoping he'd tell us something about how he thinks the merit system is going, but instead he just created more merit sources and upped the existing sources' sMerits.

By doing that he gave us an answer. I see it as we need more merit sources to give out more merits. Those who are doing a good job already will receive a bigger supply of sMerits to hand out. If it was the other way around and he removed a few merit sources or decreased the overall supply, that would mean that too many merits are handed out and we need to slow down.

[Igebotz]

Who knows if Cyrus has control in the admin panel only that wouldn't help continue the forum if theymos disappeared.

Funny how everyone is pointing at cyrus as the forum heir If Theymos was to disappeared someday, forgotten the fact that Cyrus and Theymos could possibly passed away someday, maybe same period, what now then happen?? The current domain expires in 2029? Is possible most of us will surely die before 2029 why not enjoy the moment while it last.

Nothing last forever, the forum will surely pass away someday our focus should be " how secured is the forum?" We may wake up one day and find ourselves on another domain or our database being deleted. The forum database was breached before and may happen again in the future..