Can a pool track an ASIC miner ?

[stigo]

Hi,

Is there any possibility for a pool to track  ( or to identify) an Asic miner if the worker or IP address changes ?
I mean if I have an ASIC miner and want to give it to another miner , there is any possibility ( firmware Hardware or software ) for the pool to know that is my asic miner ?

Thanks

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[NotFuzzyWarm]

Why would you even care?
However, to answer:
  Using OEM firmware - no.
  Using 3rd party firmware, because they periodically mine to a special DEV fee pool -- maybe.

Any particular reason you are asking these security-related questions? Are you mining in a country where it is illegal? If you are - BAD idea!

[stigo]

Why would you even care?
However, to answer:
  Using OEM firmware - no.
  Using 3rd party firmware, because they periodically mine to a special DEV fee pool -- maybe.

Any particular reason you are asking these security-related questions? Are you mining in a country where it is illegal? If you are - BAD idea!

No I'm not in a country where it's illegal. I'm just looking for some details for an idea (nothing illegal or bad ) ...

So maybe it's possible with a new firmware... that's what I thought

[NeuroticFish]

Is there any possibility for a pool to track  ( or to identify) an Asic miner if the worker or IP address changes ?
I mean if I have an ASIC miner and want to give it to another miner , there is any possibility ( firmware Hardware or software ) for the pool to know that is my asic miner ?

This would mean that the pool software looks for information that's not relevant to them and, more important, the miner sends such (extra) information to the pool.
I don't see why could/would that happen, since a developer (and maybe a packet sniffer) could detect that and would lead to a scandal, if it's the stock firmware/software.

[mikeywith]

Using OEM firmware - no.

This does make sense, but we don't know for certain, because even OEM firmware is closed source, and we know for certain that every miner has its own unique serial number which the firmware detects, so there is a possibility that the miner's ID could be leaked to the pool in one way or the other, it's very unlikely that the pool will request it, and even if it did, we still don't know if the miner will pass such info to the pool, but as long as we don't know the code for the firmware, everything is still possible.

Any particular reason you are asking these security-related questions?

To be honest, most of his questions are rather weird, but I find some of them interesting, I have been mining for years and have never thought of such things.

[kano]

Better you be specific, than make broad incorrect statements.

Canaan firmware up to A9 is all open source.
BM firmware up to S9 is all open source.

Alas all BM hack after market firmware is closed source and charges a fee, except S9 bos before they changed it to closed source and charged a fee.

[mikeywith]

Canaan firmware up to A9 is all open source.
BM firmware up to S9 is all open source.

Those only make a very small percentage of all the gears in the world, besides, the S9 as is, is an old obsolete model and mostly dead, the newer versions have different firmware which isn't open-source, so it's safe to say that the vast majority of OEM firmware is closed source, I know you like to make it seem like that isn't the case, just to justify allowing them to use your pool, but that's for a different topic.

except S9 bos before they changed it to closed source and charged a fee.

Wrong, BOs is fully open-source, BOs+ is not, those are two different firmware, perhaps you should do some reading before claiming things that are far from accurate.

[kano]

Canaan firmware up to A9 is all open source.
BM firmware up to S9 is all open source.

Those only make a very small percentage of all the gears in the world, besides, the S9 as is, is an old obsolete model and mostly dead, the newer versions have different firmware which isn't open-source, so it's safe to say that the vast majority of OEM firmware is closed source, I know you like to make it seem like that isn't the case, just to justify allowing them to use your pool, but that's for a different topic.

Alas the millions of S9 produced didn't magically disappear, even if you like to think they did.
They're almost certainly over 1/4 the world hash rate.
BM have the S9 code open source, if you can't find it, look harder (or try google, I hear people use that also)
There are also plenty of Canaan A7, A8, A9 still running.

except S9 bos before they changed it to closed source and charged a fee.

Wrong, BOs is fully open-source, BOs+ is not, those are two different firmware, perhaps you should do some reading before claiming things that are far from accurate.

The '+' on the end is the same code with changes and additions.
Though you not being a coder, that may be difficult for you to understand.

This is actually one thing I'm curious to know with regards to open source code, and haven't spent much time looking into it.
It is clearly against the license for someone else to release a close source release of the original bos code, but does that apply to them also?
'bos+' is 'bos' open source + changes and additions ... now closed source.

Edit: of course they can if all the owners of all the code agree to it, as long as there is no 'other' code in the open source version.

[mikeywith]

Alas the millions of S9 produced didn't magically disappear, even if you like to think they did.
They're almost certainly over 1/4 the world hash rate.

LOL, you sure are clueless,  you probably don't own any mining gears and you are still stuck in the 2016-2017 era. You need to wake up and smell the coffee, most certainly the standard S9s don't make anywhere close to 1/4,  it is so funny i don't even want to discuss it.

BM have the S9 code open source, if you can't find it

Your comprehensing skills are lagging worse than your pool,  I said the only S9 source code available is the S9 as is, there is no source code available for the S9k and S9se.

The '+' on the end is the same code with changes and additions.

This is another baseless claim, how do you know how different or similar the + version is without being able to look into the code of both versions, of course you don't and you are just saying stuff you have no clue about.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

how do you know how different or similar the + version is without being able to look into the code of both versions

Ever hear of software tools called decompilers?

Almost any closed source code can be reverse engineered to see (most) of what went into making it. While decompilers are not perfect and tend to also output a lot of assembler code they still will reveal much of the code used, more than enough to get a good idea how it works.

[mikeywith]

Almost any closed source code can be reverse engineered to see (most) of what went into making it. While decompilers are not perfect and tend to also output a lot of assembler code they still will reveal much of the code used, more than enough to get a good idea how it works.

I am asking about a specific code, BO+, how did Kano come to the conclusion that it is the same as the orginal one,  I suppose someone who wrote firmware from scratch would use the proper obfuscation tools to protect their code against RE,  i honestly believe Kano has not even looked into the firmware, and he is making shit up, if not - i'd love to see code comparision between the two.

[kano]

Alas the millions of S9 produced didn't magically disappear, even if you like to think they did.
They're almost certainly over 1/4 the world hash rate.

LOL, you sure are clueless,  you probably don't own any mining gears and you are still stuck in the 2016-2017 era. You need to wake up and smell the coffee, most certainly the standard S9s don't make anywhere close to 1/4,  it is so funny i don't even want to discuss it.

Says the guy who has a tiny farm and that's about it ...

BM have the S9 code open source, if you can't find it

Your comprehensing skills are lagging worse than your pool,  I said the only S9 source code available is the S9 as is, there is no source code available for the S9k and S9se.

My pool has less lag than probably any other pool on the planet ...

The '+' on the end is the same code with changes and additions.

This is another baseless claim, how do you know how different or similar the + version is without being able to look into the code of both versions, of course you don't and you are just saying stuff you have no clue about.

The same way any coder would know how to do that.
Quite simple actually, you look at the binary.
Hmm, I wonder who has no clue ... do you know anything at all about coding?

As you imply, I clearly don't, I certainly have no proof of all the well known free coding I've done in Bitcoin ... ... ... 2nd main developer of cgminer, earliest firmware updates by anyone (S1, S2, S3) including adding and fixing BM's code into cgminer, pool software, full coded from scratch hi performance database, bitcoin performance, more miner driver code in cgminer than anyone but ck, dealt directly with Bitmain, Cannan, BFL, BlackArrow, MyRig, BitmainTech, hmm I guess that could be most of it ... probably think of others if I wasted more time on this ...
Yeah you're right, what would I know about anything, nothing at all.

You're back on ignore, no idea why I switched that off ...

[mikeywith]

My pool has less lag than probably any other pool on the planet ...

Ya right, it hasn't hit a block for 358 days so far, if that isn't enough lag not sure what is.  

Yeah you're right, what would I know about anything, nothing at all.

Not sure why are you pasting your resume here, you posted a false claim which says:

except S9 bos before they changed it to closed source and charged a fee.

I told you BOs is still open source, and what you are talking about is the BOs+ which is a different version, yet again you came up with another false claim and said they are the same, I asked for proof, and I have yet to see one.

You say it's the same but "with changes", well, all firmware versions have many similarities since they basically almost do the same thing and deal with the same drivers/hardware, unless that is your definition of "the same" then BOs and BOs+ are different firmware versions and as often, you are wrong.

[DaCryptoRaccoon]

You two still arguing?

Take it to the PM's lads you guys derailed this guys topic.

For what it's worth I have used Kano's firmware all be it long time ago on the S3's and it actually was much better than what shipped at the time so I can confirm what he says he know's his shit.

Now OP...

Their probably is ways to track miners just people don't like to talk about it because it's probably going on.

Best bet is to stay away from modified firmware and stick to OEM stuff.

At the end of the day it's a running a OS and could quite easy have something installed on it.

I doubt the security of older miners is that robust anyone with some Kali skills and access to a machine could easy add some form of tracking to the machine.

A while back a lot of miners got infected some people claim they got infected even with stock firmware and really secure passwords I never did find out more about it but I am sure if you google it you will find the info about them.

[Artemis3]

Heh, you talk about derail but mention kali, which is a distro and you don't need "skills" with a distro but the tools it brings, which can be used in any other distro.

So what you say is trust the manufacturer, your honest Chinese manufacturer that is totally not coerced by their gov to reveal info of others, i wonder if you remember the antbleed scandal?

So back in those days, when Kano provided a replacement, all was good. But today, who provides such a replacement?


It is true that the bosminer included in Braiins OS is open source, you can read the code yourself if you know Rust language. If you have the talent, you can also apply for working with Braiins here: https://braiins.com/careers


Now you can take my word or don't as you see fit. The only major difference is the + version has the autotuning and dev fee in bosminer.

If you don't mind manual control, as it was in 2016 or 2017, yes you can use Braiins OS in your S9 and it has Asicboost.

[kano]

...
It is true that the bosminer included in Braiins OS is open source, you can read the code yourself if you know Rust language. If you have the talent, you can also apply for working with Braiins here: https://braiins.com/careers

No one has written an OS for mining.
Your OS is the open source Linux, with additions for the miner.
This version is also S9, old slow, out of date hardware.

Now you can take my word or don't as you see fit. The only major difference is the + version has the autotuning and dev fee in bosminer.

And you missed the most important part, the miner is closed source.
Who knows why you hide the source code.
Thus who knows what else it does, like the topic, what extra things other than just mining to your own account on your pool?
It uses more network than a standard miner.

If you don't mind manual control, as it was in 2016 or 2017, yes you can use Braiins OS in your S9 and it has Asicboost.

The manufacturer S9 firmware does asicboost.
Though I pointed out that the S9 did asicboost before Bitmain admitted it did and released firmware to use it.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1493601.msg15634328#msg15634328

[Artemis3]

If a pool requires you to make an user account, it is tracking you, period.


Braiins OS is a Linux derivative of Openwrt17, and Braiins OS+ only uses a different bosminer with added "+" features.
Who knows what it does? Actually i do, as i said earlier: "take my word or don't as you see fit".
So indeed I am not missing anything, perhaps you are missing reading?

Negating this is the same as negating Ubuntu and the likes. They do include closed source software, such as nvidia drivers. I have told you already that bosminer is the only proprietary program.

You are of course welcome to take Braiins OS (or bosminer) and add the support for the modern hardware, good luck with the work from scratch with zero manufacturer support... Unlike others, there is not an already working cgminer modification running with the awful Xilinx Linux running behind. At least MicroBT also uses Openwrt, but with your precious cgminer don't they? Did you get the source code with their modifications to support their gear?

If you exclude the manager which is optional, using the encrypted Stratum v2 protocol (which is also in Braiins OS) lets you talk with a pool without being eavesdropped. Why did you never complain about Stratum being clear text? Is this the internet of a decade ago with http cleartext where everyone could see everyone's traffic and web cache and surveillance agencies were happier? Why did you never thought that passing clear text json messages around isn't exactly safe? Or was the original intention that pools would never leave a local network? In any case, such an outdated thinking does not work in 2021. The Stratum V2 specification is open for everyone to use and you can even participate in defining it further, its not just for Braiins. I understand Chinese pools getting pressure from their gov against encryption, but what about the others? Like yours?

Without this, people are left with just vpn or some sort of ssh tunnel, and we know how much you love vpn, but that is exactly what some people are forced to do because clear text is big no where they operate.

Anyway its your choice to use it or not, everyone can make their own informed choice.

[kano]

...
Anyway its your choice to use it or not, everyone can make their own informed choice.

Alas it is an uniformed choice.
They are required to trust your words.
There is no way to verify those words, the miner is closed source.

[btc2marspro]

KANO RULEs!

Alas the millions of S9 produced didn't magically disappear, even if you like to think they did.
They're almost certainly over 1/4 the world hash rate.

LOL, you sure are clueless,  you probably don't own any mining gears and you are still stuck in the 2016-2017 era. You need to wake up and smell the coffee, most certainly the standard S9s don't make anywhere close to 1/4,  it is so funny i don't even want to discuss it.

Says the guy who has a tiny farm and that's about it ...

BM have the S9 code open source, if you can't find it

Your comprehensing skills are lagging worse than your pool,  I said the only S9 source code available is the S9 as is, there is no source code available for the S9k and S9se.

My pool has less lag than probably any other pool on the planet ...

The '+' on the end is the same code with changes and additions.

This is another baseless claim, how do you know how different or similar the + version is without being able to look into the code of both versions, of course you don't and you are just saying stuff you have no clue about.

The same way any coder would know how to do that.
Quite simple actually, you look at the binary.
Hmm, I wonder who has no clue ... do you know anything at all about coding?

As you imply, I clearly don't, I certainly have no proof of all the well known free coding I've done in Bitcoin ... ... ... 2nd main developer of cgminer, earliest firmware updates by anyone (S1, S2, S3) including adding and fixing BM's code into cgminer, pool software, full coded from scratch hi performance database, bitcoin performance, more miner driver code in cgminer than anyone but ck, dealt directly with Bitmain, Cannan, BFL, BlackArrow, MyRig, BitmainTech, hmm I guess that could be most of it ... probably think of others if I wasted more time on this ...
Yeah you're right, what would I know about anything, nothing at all.

You're back on ignore, no idea why I switched that off ...

[mattarse]

You two still arguing?

Take it to the PM's lads you guys derailed this guys topic.

For what it's worth I have used Kano's firmware all be it long time ago on the S3's and it actually was much better than what shipped at the time so I can confirm what he says he know's his shit.

Now OP...

Their probably is ways to track miners just people don't like to talk about it because it's probably going on.

Best bet is to stay away from modified firmware and stick to OEM stuff.

At the end of the day it's a running a OS and could quite easy have something installed on it.

I doubt the security of older miners is that robust anyone with some Kali skills and access to a machine could easy add some form of tracking to the machine.

A while back a lot of miners got infected some people claim they got infected even with stock firmware and really secure passwords I never did find out more about it but I am sure if you google it you will find the info about them.

I would assume there is enough data sent to fingerprint each miner in the same way browsers are fingerprinted. I would only be confident there's not if I was proxying my own data.