ECB starts 24 month digital euro project.

[o_e_l_e_o]

The rest of Europe wasn't really seeing the UK as being a part of it...

It's interesting that the general view of the UK differs so much from within Europe as opposed to from outside Europe. Certainly they seem pretty intent on building walls rather than bridges at the moment (metaphorically speaking). As the world becomes more and more interconnected, I'm not sure what they are looking to gain by isolating themselves from it. I've not been paying a huge amount of attention to it recently, but from what news does filter through to me it seems to be driven by some desire to regain the "glory" of the "empire" - Make Britain Great Again nonsense, if you will.

It's funny - the Bank of England used to be one of the most important central banks in the world. It's still important, obviously, but I would say I pay a lot less attention to what it is up to than I did in years gone by. Now the ECB is probably the foreign central bank I read about the most. If and when the BoE launch a CBDC, will anyone outside of the UK even care?

It's interesting that they take their time in analyzing fully all the possible implications. It means that they want to do it good (whatever that means from their point of view!) and it also means that while they signaled that they stay in the game, they don't want to be the first, they don't want unnecessary headaches, but if the others do it, they'll do it too.

Perhaps it's driven by the point stompix made above. If the Fed comes out with a proposal for a CBDC, then they have to take it to Congress and get it to pass a vote. If the ECB comes out with a proposal for a CBDC, then it has to be disseminated to 19 (or is it all 27?) member states, any one of which could veto it. They need to be sure they get it right or it'll never pass.

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[zanezane]

I don't know if it's about strength or is it more about staying in the game. With all the big financial powers going on the direction of CBDCs, EU had to do the same.
It's interesting that they take their time in analyzing fully all the possible implications. It means that they want to do it good (whatever that means from their point of view!) and it also means that while they signaled that they stay in the game, they don't want to be the first, they don't want unnecessary headaches, but if the others do it, they'll do it too.

I think it's a bit of both with more favor to staying in the game longer, I think that these people know that their current financial system is already flawed and archaic so they try and make sure that it survives and adapts because they know that it's the thing that keeps them in power.

[Wind_FURY]

Their plans to create a CBDC have been around for a long time, even my developing country is already preparing for the realization of the CBDC, I read on the official Instagram of my country's central bank that they are in the research stage and it will take quite a long time.  Implicitly they did create CBDC as a form of their awareness of the development of BTC so that this will be a comparison asset for BTC that already existed before.

But if the Central Banks believe that a CBDC will stop/discourage people from buying, and using Bitcoin, then they cannot be more WRONG. I believe people HODL, and use Bitcoin because of two things, idealism, and greed. Bitcoin is censorship-resistant, and something that can still surge 10x more. CBDC can’t give you that.

[bittraffic]

Their plans to create a CBDC have been around for a long time, even my developing country is already preparing for the realization of the CBDC, I read on the official Instagram of my country's central bank that they are in the research stage and it will take quite a long time.  Implicitly they did create CBDC as a form of their awareness of the development of BTC so that this will be a comparison asset for BTC that already existed before.

But if the Central Banks believe that a CBDC will stop/discourage people from buying, and using Bitcoin, then they cannot be more WRONG. I believe people HODL, and use Bitcoin because of two things, idealism, and greed. Bitcoin is censorship-resistant, and something that can still surge 10x more. CBDC can’t give you that.

Well EU plans to start blocking anonymous wallet transaction which they could literally make it a hunt for criminals not just for launderer that they usually say.

And then this CBDC although it will take a long time before they could come up perfectly, stablecoins might also be screened or banned because they think that stablecoins are going to be widely used than the CBDC.

[ven7net]

I cannot say that the emergence of the digital Euro is good or bad. The fact is that there is a high probability that the financial world will disintegrate into currency zones in the near future, and then the appearance of the digital Euro, Yuan and other digital currencies of different countries is quite obvious. I believe that more than one state is not interested in making the official currency the currency over which they have no influence and this greatly affects the security of each country. So the emergence of the digital Euro is a common occurrence for me. As for BTC and other cryptocurrencies, some of them will probably work and will continue to simply be not so much money, but assets to preserve and increase profits, such as digital gold.

[NeuroticFish]

If the ECB comes out with a proposal for a CBDC, then it has to be disseminated to 19 (or is it all 27?) member states, any one of which could veto it. They need to be sure they get it right or it'll never pass.

O, clearly. That was part of doing it good. But I have a feeling that's more than that.
But time will tell - whether they do any real step before or after the FED.

[Lucius]

It's interesting that the general view of the UK differs so much from within Europe as opposed to from outside Europe. Certainly they seem pretty intent on building walls rather than bridges at the moment (metaphorically speaking). As the world becomes more and more interconnected, I'm not sure what they are looking to gain by isolating themselves from it. I've not been paying a huge amount of attention to it recently, but from what news does filter through to me it seems to be driven by some desire to regain the "glory" of the "empire" - Make Britain Great Again nonsense, if you will.

It is my opinion that the UK left the EU not only because the citizens wanted it, but also because the US under President Trump advocated a strong sovereignist policy that greatly influenced the end result. In other words, the US was a very strong factor influencing Brexit whether someone wanted to accept it or not - and we all know that the UK has always been closer to the US than the EU because of the very strong historical ties that may have manifested themselves best in the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan.

If we go back for a moment in 2016 we can see how it all started.

Donald Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee for president, has come out in support of Brexit, saying the UK would be “better off” outside of the European Union and lamenting the consequences of migration in the continent.

And here we can see how it all ended.

Congratulations to Boris Johnson on his great WIN! Britain and the United States will now be free to strike a massive new Trade Deal after BREXIT. This deal has the potential to be far bigger and more lucrative than any deal that could be made with the E.U. Celebrate Boris!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 13, 2019

If we look at things realistically, it is clear to everyone that the ultimate goal of the UK's exit from the EU was to weaken the Union, which in the end happened.

[electronicash]

5 years is too long. they'd be taken over already by the adoption of stablecoins before they could test out to one city in their country. Chinese CBDC may have already spread out in a matter of months even in Africa.

It's interesting that the general view of the UK differs so much from within Europe as opposed to from outside Europe. Certainly they seem pretty intent on building walls rather than bridges at the moment (metaphorically speaking). As the world becomes more and more interconnected, I'm not sure what they are looking to gain by isolating themselves from it. I've not been paying a huge amount of attention to it recently, but from what news does filter through to me it seems to be driven by some desire to regain the "glory" of the "empire" - Make Britain Great Again nonsense, if you will.

It is my opinion that the UK left the EU not only because the citizens wanted it, but also because the US under President Trump advocated a strong sovereignist policy that greatly influenced the end result. In other words, the US was a very strong factor influencing Brexit whether someone wanted to accept it or not - and we all know that the UK has always been closer to the US than the EU because of the very strong historical ties that may have manifested themselves best in the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan.

If we go back for a moment in 2016 we can see how it all started.

Donald Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee for president, has come out in support of Brexit, saying the UK would be “better off” outside of the European Union and lamenting the consequences of migration in the continent.

what influence Germany this time, because afaik they do have that Dexit plan as well?  i don't think DE are friends with US but when one had successfully cut ties i guess some of them will follow.

[NeuroticFish]

It is my opinion that the UK left the EU not only because the citizens wanted it

Many were tricked into "wanting" that. Clearly US and Russia too wanted a weaker EU and they've got it.
Both EU and UK will have more troubles than benefits from this, although on the long term it may end up as UK back into EU as a proper member (not a special one like before) and maybe with metric system too (for easier transfer of goods). But it will be painful until that is reached and we may have also troubles with (at least) Northern Ireland in the process.
COVID and non-EU borders are already visible for the lack of cheap workers to harvest UK crops, I've just read today in the news...

[o_e_l_e_o]

Well EU plans to start blocking anonymous wallet transaction

They say they want to do that - fine. Now, how to they propose enforcing that? If you complete KYC at a centralized exchange, then sure, it's easy to force you to complete KYC for your withdrawal addresses well. But what if you buy bitcoin peer to peer? How do they propose de-anonymizing mixed bitcoin being traded for cash to brand new addresses? And how do they plan to block transactions without forcing all miners to comply? I'm pretty sure US and Chinese miners aren't going to start blacklisting transactions because the EU tells them to.

[teosanru]

With other countries seriously considering this direction, the EU has finally start its Digital Euro (CBDC) project. It will take them 2 years to explore the potential of such a currency, and if they decide to actually apply it, they say it would take them at least 5 years to officially launch it. As an EU resident, I am not particularly excited about this, because I know that it will take them much more than 5 years to do anything, and all that time will come in handy for Bitcoin to become more mainstream in EU.

What interests me more is whether the EU will at some point start making some bad moves when it comes to Bitcoin or stablecoins, which they obviously consider competition (although they don't explicitly mention Bitcoin). Of course, this reasoning stems from the assumption that China decided to conduct a final battle with Bitcoin precisely because of its CBDC, which is already being tested on a large sample of people.

Today the Governing Council of the European Central Bank (ECB) decided to proceed with a 24-month central bank digital currency (CBDC) project to investigate the potential of a digital euro. Even if it decides to go ahead with a digital euro, the ECB President has previously stated it would take five years to launch.

While no decision has yet been made whether to issue a digital currency, the ECB and European national central banks have outlined several motivations over the last year or more. The first, as Lagarde stated, is to ensure that as cash usage declines, there is still central bank money but in a digital form. Without a CBDC, there’s a risk that private digital currencies, including stablecoins, will dominate, and they still might. Such a scenario would make it harder for the central bank to control monetary policy, maintain financial stability, ensure low cost payments and enable financial inclusion.

If the main intention behind the CDBC project is the idea that it's better to have a government-regulated cryptocurrency than a private cryptocurrency then I think it's better if there are no CDBC in near future. I don't think it's too positive for bitcoin because what governments want to do using this is to provide an alternate cryptocurrency to the user which they could use for their transaction and enjoy the benefits of cryptos but at the same time, it will be absolutely centralized. Chances are governments might decide to ban these cryptocurrencies after they have brought their CDBC, or make it a gateway currency, that nobody can buy any other crypto unless he buys the CDBC and other cryptos can be brought only through CDBC, this would make user identification from them pretty easier.

[tyz]

Their plans to create a CBDC have been around for a long time, even my developing country is already preparing for the realization of the CBDC, I read on the official Instagram of my country's central bank that they are in the research stage and it will take quite a long time.  Implicitly they did create CBDC as a form of their awareness of the development of BTC so that this will be a comparison asset for BTC that already existed before.

But if the Central Banks believe that a CBDC will stop/discourage people from buying, and using Bitcoin, then they cannot be more WRONG. I believe people HODL, and use Bitcoin because of two things, idealism, and greed. Bitcoin is censorship-resistant, and something that can still surge 10x more. CBDC can’t give you that.

Well EU plans to start blocking anonymous wallet transaction which they could literally make it a hunt for criminals not just for launderer that they usually say.

And then this CBDC although it will take a long time before they could come up perfectly, stablecoins might also be screened or banned because they think that stablecoins are going to be widely used than the CBDC.

Well the question is how they will implement this without creating a bureaucratic monster. The idea is that everyone has to know each other's identity when sending a cryptocurrency. That means you would have to know my identity if you want to send me Bitcoin. This is complete nonsense. When I make a cash payment, I don't ask the person across the street if I can see their ID before I make a payment.

[sana54210]

Well EU plans to start blocking anonymous wallet transaction which they could literally make it a hunt for criminals not just for launderer that they usually say.

And then this CBDC although it will take a long time before they could come up perfectly, stablecoins might also be screened or banned because they think that stablecoins are going to be widely used than the CBDC.

That sort of make sense when you consider the past. I mean making anonymous wallet transactions would be basically a way to hide your money from government and government only allows people who bribe them to do that, if you are not some shady bank bribing politicians at all times to keep quite about the things you do, then you will not be able to do anything illegal.

Look at the mafia world, do you really think that they are not known or can't be caught? I mean the governments of the world could end the mafia world in a day, and I mean ALL mafia all around the world, all cartels all drug lords, all mafioso everyone you can think of will be jailed within a day, millions of people all around the world, why are they not doing it? Because they are bribed that is why. So, if you want to do anything that is against the law, just bribe the lawmakers.

[stompix]

If and when the BoE launch a CBDC, will anyone outside of the UK even care?

If we exclude the British territories and countries that depend directly on British Aid, probably nobody will give a damn.
Maybe tourists?  

Perhaps it's driven by the point stompix made above. If the Fed comes out with a proposal for a CBDC, then they have to take it to Congress and get it to pass a vote. If the ECB comes out with a proposal for a CBDC, then it has to be disseminated to 19 (or is it all 27?) member states, any one of which could veto it. They need to be sure they get it right or it'll never pass.

It's a CBDC tied to the euro, so it will be a question of the Eurozone 19, not of the whole EU, but the voting things still stand as I said before, any country could veto it at any time, plus I just read an article on how some countries have it in the law (or constitution) that the euro is the only legal currency, but the wording is so bad that it will need a re-write to accommodate a digital currency, Germany was given as an example but I really didn't get it, the quote was something like "euro banknotes are the only unrestricted legal means of payment" so assumingly this would need to be changed also in short, More headaches!

5 years is too long. they'd be taken over already by the adoption of stablecoins before they could test out to one city in their country. Chinese CBDC may have already spread out in a matter of months even in Africa.

I've read some news like that at the start of the year but it was just rumors and what-if questions, and then there was silence, anything new?

[STT]

China certainly wants to establish its own trade routes that have no need to go via dollar settlement.    They lack oil which is settled in dollars but they've been net buyers of gold for a couple decades, they must have long term ambitions to act independently.

UK sterling as part of global reserves is about 8% I think, its not significant globally for trade in many sectors but it has some continued ongoing historical relevance financially as many of contracts are settled in London, insurance and the commonwealth is some dynamic not an actual alliance just common ground from shared heritage to some extent is an unrated advantage.
   The problem with alot of the modern western currencies is they dont really deserve any association with the concept of a stable coin, if you link to these FIAT standards then it will be increasingly politics not so much trade based due to excessive liquidity, debt, fiscal deficits.   We're looking towards increasing instability from the effects of those gaps in economies growing not reducing, so to some extent every modern currency is over stated in its importance and by design they are running value into the ground in order to counter debt costs; stability in that sense is a certain course towards value lost.

[crypticj]

Why they need 24 months for digital euro? Is it so hard to create gov level blockchain?

[o_e_l_e_o]

that nobody can buy any other crypto unless he buys the CDBC and other cryptos can be brought only through CDBC, this would make user identification from them pretty easier.

People either already buy from a centralized exchange after completing full KYC, in which case the government knows everything you do, or they buy peer to peer without completing KYC, in which case the government doesn't know what you are doing. That won't necessarily change with a CBDC. Those who use centralized exchanges will still have zero privacy, and those who trade peer to peer can still hide the fact they are buying and selling bitcoin from the government. The government will be able to more closely track the movement of fiat between individuals, but they will still have no mechanism for forcing those individual to report why they are moving fiat between them. You could be doing anything, from buying a car to repaying a friend.

The idea is that everyone has to know each other's identity when sending a cryptocurrency. That means you would have to know my identity if you want to send me Bitcoin. This is complete nonsense.

I think the idea is that the government knows everybody's identity. You can still give me your wallet address and I can still send you some bitcoin without either of us knowing anything else about the other, but the government want to know who is sending and receiving those transactions, even if the people doing the transacting don't.

[Wind_FURY]

Their plans to create a CBDC have been around for a long time, even my developing country is already preparing for the realization of the CBDC, I read on the official Instagram of my country's central bank that they are in the research stage and it will take quite a long time.  Implicitly they did create CBDC as a form of their awareness of the development of BTC so that this will be a comparison asset for BTC that already existed before.

But if the Central Banks believe that a CBDC will stop/discourage people from buying, and using Bitcoin, then they cannot be more WRONG. I believe people HODL, and use Bitcoin because of two things, idealism, and greed. Bitcoin is censorship-resistant, and something that can still surge 10x more. CBDC can’t give you that.

Well EU plans to start blocking anonymous wallet transaction which they could literally make it a hunt for criminals not just for launderer that they usually say.

They can, but how are they going to censor a transaction from happening? Plus I believe is many users would then avoid  to use services that require KYC to de-anonymize my transactions.

And then this CBDC although it will take a long time before they could come up perfectly, stablecoins might also be screened or banned because they think that stablecoins are going to be widely used than the CBDC.

The government will do everything to ban anything that threatens their authority, but the cat is out of the bag. Like the genie, the idea of Bitcoin can’t be pushed back into the bottle. It’s like the discovery of Electricity, that’s how ground-breaking Satoshi’s white paper is.

[perfect999]

The idea is that everyone has to know each other's identity when sending a cryptocurrency. That means you would have to know my identity if you want to send me Bitcoin. This is complete nonsense.

I think the idea is that the government knows everybody's identity. You can still give me your wallet address and I can still send you some bitcoin without either of us knowing anything else about the other, but the government want to know who is sending and receiving those transactions, even if the people doing the transacting don't.

Yeah it's the government, not people. I understand that government needs to know who sends money to who, that "sort of" makes sense, obviously it is not good for privacy and some people are very much against it, but I at least can understand it a bit.

What I do not understand however is that why people bother with it so much, are you hiding something? My government knows exactly how much I own and how much I made and I paid taxes based on that, it is not even about them sending me any information, I did it all with my accountant, I do it every month.

This includes every single thing I spend as well, since I am a freelancer I have the luxury to even claim food as expense since my home is my office so I eat at my office while eating at home, so they know basically EVERYTHING, like literally to the garbage bag level, to what I eat every day level. I do not mind, since.. like why would I care if they know it? Why would it matter if government knows I ate a bagel this morning?

[o_e_l_e_o]

What I do not understand however is that why people bother with it so much, are you hiding something?

Just because you have nothing to hide, doesn't mean you have anything you want to share. You don't need to be hiding something incriminating to want privacy; privacy is a fundamental human right. The loss of privacy leads to the loss of freedom. With zero privacy, would you behave the same way in public as you do around friends? What about when in your own house, alone? Would you feel comfortable publicly declaring every thought you think, regardless of how ashamed it makes you feel? Of course not. With zero privacy, you would quickly be reduced to the lowest common denominator, too afraid to say anything slightly out of the ordinary and too afraid to be your true self.

Everyone values privacy. Otherwise why do you have curtains on your windows? Why do you wear clothes? Why do you post on this forum from a pseudonym, rather than from your real name with your physical address in your profile?

I don't need to spend a lot of time dismantling the "nothing to hide" argument, because it is already widely discredited. I will share one of my favorite quotes on the topic though:

The old cliché is often mocked though basically true: there’s no reason to worry about surveillance if you have nothing to hide. That mindset creates the incentive to be as compliant and inconspicuous as possible: those who think that way decide it’s in their best interests to provide authorities with as little reason as possible to care about them. That’s accomplished by never stepping out of line. Those willing to live their lives that way will be indifferent to the loss of privacy because they feel that they lose nothing from it. Above all else, that’s what a Surveillance State does: it breeds fear of doing anything out of the ordinary by creating a class of meek citizens who know they are being constantly watched.