Andreas Antonopoulos vs Adam Back

[dkbit98]

I don't know if anyone noticed a small twitter war between Andreas Antonopoulos and Adam Back CEO of Blockstream.
Everyone could notice some hostility between this two happening and it is all connected with book about centralized blockchain (probably referring to his book Mastering ethereum).
It looks like that Andreas later deleted his tweet reply about Liquid (centralized sidechain developed by Blockstream) but some people saved it on time
I see Adam Back is tweeting a lot about USDT and L-BTC so I really don't know why he need to call out people like this, and it looks like hypocrisy  


https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/1420249687899185152

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[Carlton Banks]

they should all stop talking and work on something


in Adam's case, he has at least produced useful stuff in the past.

Andreas started here on bitcointalk, and was quite determined to become a "bitcoin celebrity" right from the start. he's never done anything useful except regurgitate other people's ideas using an "excited" tone of voice. grrrrrrreat work Andreas, really


but to reiterate, I'd respect them both more if they were talking less and working on something

[ChiBitCTy]

This is interesting as I think we call all likely admit or rather likely feel that these two are absolute legends in the space.  I don't know Adam Back as well as I know Andreas Antonopoulos and his work ( Mastering Bitcoin was the first bitcoin book I ever read, which was kinda crazy being that I don't know how to code or understand cryptography), but I do know Back is a cypherpunk and a pioneer in this space.  Also a possible candidate for Satoshi or someone on the the "Satoshi team". 

What is Liquid all about?

[mk4]

I somewhat dislike Blockstream people as well. Huge props to Adam Back due to his contributions to Bitcoin, but seriously. Both people have had huge contributions to this space in general, and it's not like Andreas is shilling BSV or something. People may or may not like Ethereum, but it's a decent experiment; and I'm saying this as a person that has a huge allocation to bitcoin.

he's never done anything useful except regurgitate other people's ideas using an "excited" tone of voice. grrrrrrreat work Andreas, really

Whether or not all he did was to regurgitate, being able to explain things simply to noobies is a really important thing. Heck, it worked for me back in the day.

[ChiBitCTy]

they should all stop talking and work on something


in Adam's case, he has at least produced useful stuff in the past.

Andreas started here on bitcointalk, and was quite determined to become a "bitcoin celebrity" right from the start. he's never done anything useful except regurgitate other people's ideas using an "excited" tone of voice. grrrrrrreat work Andreas, really


but to reiterate, I'd respect them both more if they were talking less and working on something

Banks I know you know your shit ( and always very helpful anytime I have a technical question, which is always much appreciated ) but I can't agree with you here.  Andreas has done a lot for the bitcoin community.  Maybe he has wanted to always become a "bitcoin celebrity" but he's also taught likely hundreds of thousands of people about bitcoin and does so in a very clear and understandable way.  Mastering bitcoin was a pretty good book that taught a lot of people as well.  Andreas has spent a lot of his own personal time teaching and helping others to learn without asking for anything in return.  I'm not saying he's on Adams level as I know he's a legit cypherpunk who's been around since day 1, but he's still done quite a lot of good for the bitcoin community as a whole.  I'm curious why you don't agree?

[tranthidung]

Banks I know you know your shit ( and always very helpful anytime I have a technical question, which is always much appreciated ) but I can't agree with you here.  Andreas has done a lot for the bitcoin community.  Maybe he has wanted to always become a "bitcoin celebrity" but he's also taught likely hundreds of thousands of people about bitcoin and does so in a very clear and understandable way.

If he contributes and help thousands of people to learn basics and even advanced about Bitcoin, I respect him.

Mastering bitcoin was a pretty good book that taught a lot of people as well.  Andreas has spent a lot of his own personal time teaching and helping others to learn without asking for anything in return.

Additionally, I respect Andreas more when he rejected 10 BTC from HEX to shill that project. He also gave a free warning to the community. A good person, indeed.

Source

I've been offered 10BTC to do an interview about HEX to show that it is not a scam.

I was not asked to disclose the payment. Draw your own conclusions.

This announcement is free.

I'm not saying he's on Adams level as I know he's a legit cypherpunk who's been around since day 1, but he's still done quite a lot of good for the bitcoin community as a whole.  I'm curious why you don't agree?

Joining something since day 1 does not mean anyone is the best or among the best.

[Yogee]

Andreas probably doesn't have an in depth knowledge about the liquid sidechain so he decided to back out? I honestly to see a debate between the two but I don't want anyone to lose at the same time hehe. I think Adam has a higher chance of winning the "Ethereum is centralized" argument than Andreas "Liquid is centralized".

[Darker45]

I'm not saying he's on Adams level as I know he's a legit cypherpunk who's been around since day 1, but he's still done quite a lot of good for the bitcoin community as a whole.  I'm curious why you don't agree?

Joining something since day 1 does not mean anyone is the best or among the best.

But still warrants a large amount of respect for being a pioneer, one of the foundations so to speak. But if it doesn't appeal to someone that Adam has been there since day 1, perhaps it will that he was directly mentioned by Satoshi himself/herself/themselves in the whitepaper. Adam's Hashcash must have played an inspiring and very significant role in Satoshi's development of Bitcoin.

"...we will need to use a proof-of-work system similar to Adam Back's Hashcash..." - Satoshi Nakamoto

Anyway, much respect to both.

[temple]

they should all stop talking and work on something


in Adam's case, he has at least produced useful stuff in the past.

Andreas started here on bitcointalk, and was quite determined to become a "bitcoin celebrity" right from the start. he's never done anything useful except regurgitate other people's ideas using an "excited" tone of voice. grrrrrrreat work Andreas, really


but to reiterate, I'd respect them both more if they were talking less and working on something

Wow, I am of a totally different opinion. Andreas Antonopoulos put an unbelievable amount of effort into bringing Bitcoin closer to the whole world in under stable words and phrases. He has had a major impact on building a global community from literally every country to support Bitcoin. Saying that he was aiming at becoming a celebrity is like accusing a great singer of giving concerts in order to become a celebrity. Antonopoulos is an outstanding thinker and explainer. We owe a lot to him for sure.

[verita1]

I admire both advocates of bitcoin.
Andreas Antonopoulos is a very respected leader in the crypto space and his work has been very valuable in educating people. He is a reference worldwide. By hiding Adam Back's tweet he did so so as not to confuse his audience.

Adam Back is highly respected as well. Some have pointed out that he could be Satoshi but we all know that he is not. Taking a look at his profile on Twitter, I found what OP says. Apparently Adam is testing the Liquid network.
What is the Liquid network about?

The Liquid Network
A sidechain-based settlement network for traders & exchanges. Liquid enables faster, more confidential Bitcoin and Tether transactions, and the issuance of digital assets.

https://liquid.net/

[hatshepsut93]

I somewhat dislike Blockstream people as well. Huge props to Adam Back due to his contributions to Bitcoin, but seriously. Both people have had huge contributions to this space in general, and it's not like Andreas is shilling BSV or something. People may or may not like Ethereum, but it's a decent experiment; and I'm saying this as a person that has a huge allocation to bitcoin.

#BlockstreamDidNothingWrong

I don't like Ethereum, but I wouldn't go as far as to attack people for supporting it, there are tons of way scammier projects than it. But I don't like the hyping of "blockchain technology", there's very little examples of succesful blockchain applications, and Bitcoin shouldn't be viewed as an application of blockchain, because blockchain is just one part of Bitcoin protocol. Hyping blockchain for no reason is exactly why we have tons of scams and defrauded investors and countless useless altcoins to this day.

[Carlton Banks]

Saying that he was aiming at becoming a celebrity is like accusing a great singer of giving concerts in order to become a celebrity.

most "great singers" are faking it one way or another, and have been for years.

there are far more great singers who will never become well known, because their body/face isn't as beautiful as their voice. They sing backup for the "great" singers (i.e. the celebrity narcissists), so that the good voices make the "lead" singer sound better than they really are

there are a few rare exceptions to what I just said, but it's subjective anyway (who's got a good singing voice/who's good to look at)

Andreas has spent a lot of his own personal time teaching and helping others to learn without asking for anything in return.

nothing is for free

Andreas saw a gaping big space, shaped like a celebrity who talks about Bitcoin all the time, and he channeled himself directly into that void. There's nothing exceptional about him, he was just the first person to do it.

I agree with the perspective he's coming from, but please, quit it with the hero worship. He could just as soon do a full 180 on you, and start telling us we're all "helping murderers and slave traders", unless we start using special wallet software that takes away all that Bitcoin freedom. Personality cults are dangerous, and I've been seeing the warning signs of that with Andreas Antonopoulos for years.

I mean listen to yourself: "hey! don't talk about mmmmyyyy Andreas like that!"


I'm not letting Adam Back off the hook incidentally, I'm not aware of him doing anything substantial in Bitcoin at all. He seems to be good at making waves on twitter also, but when neither of them are worth much, why does anyone care?

[2double0]

they should all stop talking and work on something


in Adam's case, he has at least produced useful stuff in the past.

Andreas started here on bitcointalk, and was quite determined to become a "bitcoin celebrity" right from the start. he's never done anything useful except regurgitate other people's ideas using an "excited" tone of voice. grrrrrrreat work Andreas, really


but to reiterate, I'd respect them both more if they were talking less and working on something

Wow, I am of a totally different opinion. Andreas Antonopoulos put an unbelievable amount of effort into bringing Bitcoin closer to the whole world in under stable words and phrases. He has had a major impact on building a global community from literally every country to support Bitcoin. Saying that he was aiming at becoming a celebrity is like accusing a great singer of giving concerts in order to become a celebrity. Antonopoulos is an outstanding thinker and explainer. We owe a lot to him for sure.

I think Carlton is right here, because one way or another, bitcoins have gained enough fame to add some shine to the personality of people who either start using or talk about it. Antonopaulos did a lot for bitcoins, but he can't put all those things apart from btc of which names were used by him. However, it's all I see about falling for Elon Musk or following Antonopaulos because netizens never go the same way all the time.

[franky1]

they should all stop talking and work on something


in Adam's case, he has at least produced useful stuff in the past.

Andreas started here on bitcointalk, and was quite determined to become a "bitcoin celebrity" right from the start. he's never done anything useful except regurgitate other people's ideas using an "excited" tone of voice. grrrrrrreat work Andreas, really


but to reiterate, I'd respect them both more if they were talking less and working on something

remind me again. how many lines of code adam back contributed to bitcoin.
yes adam back became the purse holder of a company that paid devs. and the whip master of the devs..
but how much code did he actually write
(kinda rhetorical i already checked the github contributor list)

maybe just maybe you dont care about anyone unless they are big names with big pockets that have big whips to actually get devs to do stuff..
EG because say andreas is loud but has no dev whip. you dont respect andreas

[mk4]

#BlockstreamDidNothingWrong

I don't like Ethereum, but I wouldn't go as far as to attack people for supporting it, there are tons of way scammier projects than it. But I don't like the hyping of "blockchain technology", there's very little examples of succesful blockchain applications, and Bitcoin shouldn't be viewed as an application of blockchain, because blockchain is just one part of Bitcoin protocol. Hyping blockchain for no reason is exactly why we have tons of scams and defrauded investors and countless useless altcoins to this day.

Never said Blockstream did something bad; I just heavily dislike their Twitter fiasco. Because let's be honest, there are loudmouths on both the Bitcoin maxi camp and the Ethereum maxi camp. In which both camps are wasting their time attacking each other on Twitter rather than just focusing more energy on better things. I simply just prefer the likes of Aantonop which focuses more on uplifting this industry rather than bringing each other down.

[nutildah]

Unlike Andreas, Adam Back is a bit two-faced.







If you don't know what's going on there, Adam sequentially

1. shit on altcoins
2. shilled an altcoin
3. shit on altcoins

and I gotta say, disappointingly few people seemed to have blinked an eye.

Don't care if Andreas was always a fameseeker or whatever, he's made Bitcoin interesting to hundreds of thousands or maybe even millions of people. Adam on the other hand... I used to entertain the idea that he might be Satoshi, but now I'd be pretty disappointed if he was.

I'm not letting Adam Back off the hook incidentally, I'm not aware of him doing anything substantial in Bitcoin at all. He seems to be good at making waves on twitter also, but when neither of them are worth much, why does anyone care?

I dunno. Same question can be asked of the entirety of crypto twitter.

[pooya87]

That's a very unfair comparison between these two.
Everything Adam Back has ever done was to benefit himself, from Blockstream to the centralized shitnetwork called liquid.
Andreas Antonopoulos on the other hand has been helpful to many newcomers by teaching them how bitcoin words "correctly" instead of giving them some bad information like many others do because they don't understand how things work.

[dkbit98]

Andreas started here on bitcointalk, and was quite determined to become a "bitcoin celebrity" right from the start. he's never done anything useful except regurgitate other people's ideas using an "excited" tone of voice.

I don't think that educating a lot of people about Bitcoin with books he wrote, and with his videos on youtube channel, could be called ''doing nothing useful''.
Not everyone can be good coder to be consider helpful for Bitcoin.

I somewhat dislike Blockstream people as well. Huge props to Adam Back due to his contributions to Bitcoin, but seriously. Both people have had huge contributions to this space in general, and it's not like Andreas is shilling BSV or something. People may or may not like Ethereum, but it's a decent experiment; and I'm saying this as a person that has a huge allocation to bitcoin.

I don't personally dislike people who work for Blockstream, or in case of Adam Back man who is CEO of Blockstream, but there are so many things they can be criticized for, including Liquid or his tweets and retweets about USDT Tether like one below, so I wonder is he now supporting Tether because they need it on their Liquid project and centralized ''LiquiDEX'':


https://twitter.com/Tether_to/status/1419693609075580928


https://twitter.com/Blockstream/status/1409974632619425795

[mk4]

Unlike Andreas, Adam Back is a bit two-faced.

https://i.ibb.co/mX7gtW8/ab1.png

https://i.ibb.co/4tCGP9c/ab2.png

https://i.ibb.co/yspY1Vy/ab3.png

If you don't know what's going on there, Adam sequentially

1. shit on altcoins
2. shilled an altcoin
3. shit on altcoins

and I gotta say, disappointingly few people seemed to have blinked an eye.

Oh yea that INX fiasco. Pretty much multiple bitcoin maximalists that were totally against Ethereum were suddenly invested in this INX thing lol. Total hypocrisy.

And don't even get me started with Max Keiser's MAXCoin.

I'm not letting Adam Back off the hook incidentally, I'm not aware of him doing anything substantial in Bitcoin at all. He seems to be good at making waves on twitter also, but when neither of them are worth much, why does anyone care?

I dunno. Same question can be asked of the entirety of crypto twitter.

I really don't know what much he has done for Bitcoin as well, besides probably Satoshi using Adam's Hashcash as an inspiration or something.

[Carlton Banks]

I dunno. Same question can be asked of the entirety of crypto twitter.

completely agree, we're even pretty hypocritical ourselves here, because we're engaging in... similar behavior right here on bitcointalk

I really don't know what much he has done for Bitcoin as well, besides probably Satoshi using Adam's Hashcash as an inspiration or something.

right. it's not nothing, as satoshi used it somewhat, but hashcash itself never went anywhere, and that was a long time ago now. there's almost no reason to remember hashcash except in the context of bitcoin.

Adam also came with the 2-4-8 blocksize proposal, and also extension blocks, both of which caught basically no-one's attention at all.