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Author Topic: Bybit and FTX are clones of BitMEX and Binance?  (Read 150 times)
Ratimov
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August 02, 2021, 06:05:05 AM
Merited by magneto (2)
 #1

Recently I read one little post on the forum about the fact that exchanges create insurance for themselves in the form of other, similar to themselves, exchanges. I decided to reflect on this topic in more detail and ask the opinions of the community.

Indeed, is there such a phenomenon among crypto exchanges as the creation of backup options in the event of various kinds of risks, including reputational ones? So that there is an immediate ready-made alternative for clients in case of restrictions on the main exchange. ByBit and FTX are good examples of these fallbacks.

The bundles of exchanges will look like this:

Bybit is an alternative to BitMEX;
FTX is an alternative to Binance;


Let's take BitMEX first. It was once the number one exchange among derivatives platforms, but the greed and greed of the creators damaged the reputation of the exchange and it lost its power and former positions. The reputation was also damaged. The main big accusations hit the exchange after 2018, and it was in this year that the Bybit exchange was born. It was essentially a complete BitMEX clone. Judge for yourself, the absence of KYC (as it once was on Bitmex), although now KYC is being introduced on ByBit, but there is still an opportunity to trade without it, in contrast to the same BitMEX. Alternative? Yes. Also a similar trading concept. Only contracts, no spot and no fiat. Until recently, this was also the case on Bybit, until spot trading was added there. Alternative? Undoubtedly. The Bybit exchange appeared suddenly, relatively recently and almost immediately became a billion-dollar (in terms of volume) giant with similar functionality and trading concept to BitMEX. It is possible that the exchange was initially supported and advertised thanks to its older brother - BitMEX.

FTX is Binance's little brother. The exchange is also positioned as a multifunctional trading platform with its own exchange options, OTC, futures, spot trading, various tokens, a wide variety of trading pairs, fiat and much more. Moreover, we often see how exchanges cooperate with each other, for example, the well-known BEAR\BULL leveraged tokens that are pumped from FTX to Binance and vice versa. This is the same billion-dollar giant that appeared relatively recently, in 2019, and has already grown to such proportions. How can such young exchanges become the top of the industry in 2-3 years, if not without the support of their older brothers?

In the case of FTX, even the decision-making is the same with Binance. Consider the recent announcements from exchanges that they are cutting leverage to 20x.
https://twitter.com/SBF_FTX/status/1419263712225988620
https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1419470491337723909

And after Binance announced a reduction in withdrawal limits: https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1419470491337723909, a powerful influx of bitcoins was recorded on FTX: https://u.today/ftx-exchange-saw-the-largest-single-hour-inflow-of-btc-in-last-year. I think this is not accidental and there is a controlled connection between these two exchanges.



So, we can assume that exchanges create clones for themselves (in a sense of the word) to hedge reputational risks. At the moment, the reputation of BitMEX and Binance suffers due to repeated accusations of certain frauds, while their alternatives are clean (practically) and no serious charges are brought against them. These exchanges are a kind of alternate airfield in the world of the exchange business.

If translated into the forum language, then these are alt accounts that are pumped almost simultaneously in order to diversify possible risks so that the business continues, even if the main account is closed, banned, or even loses its reputation. Since it will be very difficult to start from the beginning and it will be a loss of possible profit. And here there is already a ready-made alternative, without prejudice to the business, and if the main site ceases to exist altogether or is constantly attacked by regulators or lawsuits, then the business has continued and will continue, simply through another platform, which by the time the massive problems will already be heard by everyone and pumped as much as possible.

I mentioned 2 known possible cases of such alternatives, but probably every major exchange has such clone alternatives. Because no one wants to lose their business in the world of crypto trading, and exchanges do not last long in such a market. Leaders are constantly changing. So one cannot do without safety net in this business and it is necessary to invest in alternative scenarios for the development of events. What do you think about this?

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August 02, 2021, 07:41:50 AM
 #2

What do you think about this?
I'd prefer to not comment in regards to the possibility of having a connection between them [regardless of the above recent events], but it makes perfect sense [for them] to have some sort of a safety net in place since there are a lot of things at stake.
- Having said that, I see such moves as unethical behavior by exchanges, and unfortunately, only a small group of people or exchanges value such things.

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August 02, 2021, 08:55:04 AM
 #3

Upon experience, I feel that Bybit is the clone of Binance regarding GUI and user experience. The colorways also add to the "thought" of it having being cloned or something. I'm curious as to how much it could've been to do that, and if it's true, how many more exchanges could there be? There are probably overlaps of connections between these exchanges, and they have probably the same devs or something. Lol.

I think that it's hard to create an exchange if you don't have the experience and connections to design and develop one. When you have relationships, like someone in Binance, you can re-create how it's being done.

Having alternatives are the way to be in the game for a very long time.

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August 02, 2021, 09:27:54 AM
 #4

Upon experience, I feel that Bybit is the clone of Binance regarding GUI and user experience. The colorways also add to the "thought" of it having being cloned or something. I'm curious as to how much it could've been to do that, and if it's true, how many more exchanges could there be? There are probably overlaps of connections between these exchanges, and they have probably the same devs or something. Lol.
I think that it's hard to create an exchange if you don't have the experience and connections to design and develop one. When you have relationships, like someone in Binance, you can re-create how it's being done.
Having alternatives are the way to be in the game for a very long time.

Well, after all, the coincidence in the graphical interface is more secondary than the coincidence in the concept of the exchange itself, Binance is a multi-platform, while Bybit has been a strictly derivative platform like Bitmex for almost three years. with the same simple registration and simple margin accounts as opposed to the more complex one on Binance.

Regarding the fact that the creation of an exchange itself requires certain skills and knowledge, of course, and the creation of a billion dollar exchange is all the more so, here you cannot do without the professional support of experienced people who already have knowledge in the field of managing such exchanges.

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August 03, 2021, 08:20:35 AM
 #5

Well, after all, the coincidence in the graphical interface is more secondary than the coincidence in the concept of the exchange itself, Binance is a multi-platform, while Bybit has been a strictly derivative platform like Bitmex for almost three years. with the same simple registration and simple margin accounts as opposed to the more complex one on Binance.
Well, yeah, I think I understand why they have to mirror their interface because that's what works and most new companies that see potential in the market copy the ones who has been successful. I didn't look at it in the back-end side but I see where you are coming from.

Regarding the fact that the creation of an exchange itself requires certain skills and knowledge, of course, and the creation of a billion dollar exchange is all the more so, here you cannot do without the professional support of experienced people who already have knowledge in the field of managing such exchanges.
That's probably the reason why there are connections and similarities between them. Programming that from the ground-up would require thousand hours of work with multiple engineers producing it.

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August 03, 2021, 09:21:27 AM
 #6

Clones mean that something is identical to original, and those exchanges you mentioned are not at all identical clones to Bitmex and Binance.
I never used Bybit exchange so I can't speak much about it, but FTX is not owned by CZ even if he did invested a lot in FTX, but owner is Sam Bankman-Fried.
You can also notice important differences in fees and interface, and you can even withdraw Bitcoin from FTX without paying any fee and that is something Binance never had.

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August 03, 2021, 10:27:47 AM
 #7

but FTX is not owned by CZ even if he did invested a lot in FTX, but owner is Sam Bankman-Fried.

Did I claim that FTX is owned by CZ? It doesn't matter who is the manager of a particular exchange. It is clear that in their own interests they can deliberately divide their business so that, if something happens, the trail from one exchange to another does not stretch on regulatory and judicial issues.

You can also notice important differences in fees and interface, and you can even withdraw Bitcoin from FTX without paying any fee and that is something Binance never had.

These are the little things. The fact that these exchanges can be created as an alternate airfield to preserve business in the event of any reputational or legal prosecution does not mean that these exchanges should completely mirror each other's full functionality.

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August 03, 2021, 11:22:28 AM
 #8

Did I claim that FTX is owned by CZ?
No, but you said even worse thing that all those exchanges are clones, and I hope you understand the meaning of that word,  CLONE = IDENTICAL, look up in dictionary.
I am not going to reply here anymore. Cheers.

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August 03, 2021, 11:29:45 AM
 #9

No, but you said even worse thing that all those exchanges are clones, and I hope you understand the meaning of that word,  CLONE = IDENTICAL, look up in dictionary. I am not going to reply here anymore. Cheers.

If you look at the same Wikipedia, then cloning is also used to breed a new variety of something.

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August 04, 2021, 03:25:08 AM
 #10

@Ratimov. FTX is an exchange that offers both of what Bitmex and Binance offers, I reckon. FTX was the taker of much of the volume that Bitmex lost when Arthur Hayes was hiding from the regulators. I am quite certain FTX will also again be the taker of much of Binance volume when the regulators take it down.

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August 04, 2021, 05:03:35 PM
Merited by bbc.reporter (1)
 #11

@Ratimov. FTX is an exchange that offers both of what Bitmex and Binance offers, I reckon. FTX was the taker of much of the volume that Bitmex lost when Arthur Hayes was hiding from the regulators. I am quite certain FTX will also again be the taker of much of Binance volume when the regulators take it down.

It is not correct to compare FTX with BitMex, because these are multidirectional exchanges and they have little in common, Bitmex is a strictly derivative exchange without fiat fnd spot trading, just like ByBit had the same functionality. When liquidity began to leak out of Bitmex, most of the Bitcoins from Bitmex went to Binance, and not to FTX. A little less was spent on the Kraken and Gemini:


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August 06, 2021, 09:37:33 PM
 #12

If true, and undisclosed, then they would certainly be considered anticompetitive by most countries antitrust laws and could face repercussions that way.

It would make sense for exchanges to do this, although I'm not sure about the linkage between FTX and Binance. Didn't Binance heavily criticise FTX's leveraged tokens a while back, and used that as an excuse to launch their own "variable leverage" tokens?

I may be mistaken and out of the loop with the current developments, but that certainly does not look like a synchronised step to me. I'm fairly sure FTX fired back with a counterargument as well. Either they are really good at hiding their stuff or this has no grounding, but interesting nonetheless.




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August 06, 2021, 09:42:03 PM
 #13

If true, and undisclosed, then they would certainly be considered anticompetitive by most countries antitrust laws and could face repercussions that way.

It would make sense for exchanges to do this, although I'm not sure about the linkage between FTX and Binance. Didn't Binance heavily criticise FTX's leveraged tokens a while back, and used that as an excuse to launch their own "variable leverage" tokens?

I may be mistaken and out of the loop with the current developments, but that certainly does not look like a synchronised step to me. I'm fairly sure FTX fired back with a counterargument as well. Either they are really good at hiding their stuff or this has no grounding, but interesting nonetheless.

It's just like my guess. You are talking about criticism of tokens, but initially everything was fine and Binance traded FTX tokens on its platform until CZ deleted them from its platform: https://medium.com/@ashcash_/scam-on-binance-bull-bear-part-2-9c85996e13ed

But before that, they had a great relationship with FTX and nothing prevented Binance from making big money by fooling the hamsters who bought these tokens.

Now a big regulatory campaign has been launched against Binance. It will be possible to watch the development of events. Alternatively, a gradual overflow of liquidity from Binance to FTX is possible, and references to FTX will appear more and more often in the media every time, thus redirecting the vector of attention to a more promising business direction. This promising direction is precisely the FTX exchange. I will not be surprised that soon this exchange will become the top one in terms of volume, because Binance will soon surrender its positions, even CZ is already ready to leave the position of CEO due to regulations:  https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/27/binance-ceo-says-willing-to-step-down-amid-crypto-crackdown.html

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August 15, 2021, 09:15:16 AM
Merited by Ratimov (1)
 #14

A coincidence? https://twitter.com/BinanceFraud/status/1426831962950483974

Massive fraud by financial regulators: BitMEX.com and Bybit.com, Binance.com and FTX.com - https://scambinance.com/investigations/190-massive-fraud-by-financial-regulators-bitmexcom-and-bybitcom-binancecom-and-ftxcom.html

For the overall picture, we will supplement the information.

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August 15, 2021, 12:05:44 PM
 #15

A coincidence? https://twitter.com/BinanceFraud/status/1426831962950483974

Massive fraud by financial regulators: BitMEX.com and Bybit.com, Binance.com and FTX.com - https://scambinance.com/investigations/190-massive-fraud-by-financial-regulators-bitmexcom-and-bybitcom-binancecom-and-ftxcom.html

For the overall picture, we will supplement the information.

Not sure why they would be drawing attention to each other if they were actually clones/associated companies, though?

I agree that the motive is definitely there to monopolise the market and to protect market share even after a catastrophic event like regulation.

I find it hard to believe that they would accuse each other and still somehow be interconnected, though. Maybe indirectly, but probably not directly through a share holding arrangement.

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August 24, 2021, 02:22:15 PM
 #16

According to the SEC, Binance is under investigation by the US federal government - https://twitter.com/BinanceFraud/status/1429821311946219523

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