[Question] Importing derivation path in Ledger Live

[Maus0728]

Using my Electrum, I created multiple accounts in Native SegWit (bech32) with the following derivation path, one of which is empty and the other contains funds.

m/84'/0'/0' - contains funds
m/84'/0'/1' - empty
m/84'/0'/2' - contains funds

The issue is that when I use the Ledger Live to scan the third wallet (m/84'/0'/2'), it only detects the empty wallet with the derivation path m/84'/0'/1'. It says that I need to deposit some funds first in the empty wallet to scan the 3rd wallet.

Is it possible to import the derivation path of the 3rd wallet in LL (m/84'/0'/2') to see the balance in it without funding the empty wallet?

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[bitmover]

Using my Electrum, I created multiple accounts in Native SegWit (bech32) with the following derivation path, one of which is empty and the other contains funds.

m/84'/0'/0' - contains funds
m/84'/0'/1' - empty
m/84'/0'/2' - contains funds

The issue is that when I use the Ledger Live to scan the third wallet (m/84'/0'/2'), it only detects the empty wallet with the derivation path m/84'/0'/1'. It says that I need to deposit some funds first in the empty wallet to scan the 3rd wallet.

Is it possible to import the derivation path of the 3rd wallet in LL (m/84'/0'/2') to see the balance in it without funding the empty wallet?

This won't work in Ledger Live. You need to use a Electrum for that.

From Ledger support:

Add your accounts

In the Accounts step, different sections can appear:
In the Select existing accounts section accounts are shown that already have blockchain transactions. Add a checkmark to the account(s) to add and choose a name for them.
In the Add new account section you can add a new account by adding a checkmark. This is not possible when the last created account of that crypto asset has not received a transaction yet.
The Accounts already in Portfolio section lists the accounts that are already in Portfolio and thus can not be added.
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/4404389482641-Add-your-accounts?docs=true

Why do you need Ledger Live? This is a software for new comers. It lacks some basic functionally such as coin control (control inputs to spent), adding accounts and many more.

I suggest that you stick with Electrum. You use a somehow advanced feature there, which cannot be used in Ledger Live. You can use electrum for everything, you don't need Ledger Live at all.

If you really want to use Ledger Live, I suggest that you create a totally different wallet with a different PIN using a passphrase to hold your accounts. Just transfer your third account wallet to that new wallet created with a seed phrase. It is safer and will work with Ledger Live.

More details here:

How the passphrase works
The 24-word recovery phrase saved during initial setup of your Ledger device fully backs up the private keys providing access to your accounts. You must store it in a secure place.

The passphrase is essentially a password added to your 24-word recovery phrase that provides access to a whole new set of accounts.
The passphrase protects your crypto assets if your 24-word recovery phrase were to be compromised. To access passphrase-protected accounts, an attacker will need your recovery phrase as well as your secret passphrase.
Each different passphrase unlocks a unique set of accounts. You can use as many passphrases as you like.

https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005214529-Advanced-passphrase-security

[dkbit98]

Is it possible to import the derivation path of the 3rd wallet in LL (m/84'/0'/2') to see the balance in it without funding the empty wallet?

Important thing to know is if you generated seed words with Ledger wallet (BIP39) or with Electrum that uses their own system for seed words.
Maybe you can try editing and changing derivation path in Ledger Live settings but I would suggest just sticking with combination of Electrum plus ledger hardware wallet, and use LL software only for firmware updates.
I know for a fact that same thing of skipping one empty address is working for Trezor and their Trezor Suite software just fine, so you can also migrate to Trezor if you have one device already.
Issue is that we can't generate new address in Trezor from Trezor Suite while we have empty address, so we need Electrum yet again

[Lucius]

Why do you need Ledger Live? This is a software for new comers. It lacks some basic functionally such as coin control (control inputs to spent), adding accounts and many more.

Ledger Live makes sense for all those who mostly own the coins that are supported in it, and why look for an alternative to multi coins wallets if you already have one that you paid for and that should be far more secure than any desktop or mobile wallet?

In addition, it is not true that coin control does not exist in LL - this option has been added since version 2.11.1. I personally don't use LL often, but I don't agree that this software is something for beginners - it's far better and more advanced than it used to be.

[bitmover]

Ledger Live makes sense for all those who mostly own the coins that are supported in it, and why look for an alternative to multi coins wallets if you already have one that you paid for and that should be far more secure than any desktop or mobile wallet?

In addition, it is not true that coin control does not exist in LL - this option has been added since version 2.11.1. I personally don't use LL often, but I don't agree that this software is something for beginners - it's far better and more advanced than it used to be.

Well  this is a recent upgrade. I disnt know about it, thanks.

Anyway it can't even sign messages...  it is getting better but still lacks basic features. Few months ago I was unable to send coins to multiple recipients and I had to use electrum. Also, this problem op is having is also a very basic feature that is missing...

For altcoins, I always used metamask and mew or tronlink when I needed. Recently I was able to send some erc20 tokens in ledgerlive, which was a great addition. I prefer to use ledger live than third party software,  but it simple doesn't fit my needs.

[Maus0728]

Why do you need Ledger Live? This is a software for new comers. It lacks some basic functionally such as coin control (control inputs to spent), adding accounts and many more.

Aside from using it for application and firmware updates, I always feel like to see my wallet's overall balance in one place because it makes it easier to monitor the quantity gained and tell how well I stack bitcoin continuously.

However you may import the private key/s from m/84'/0'/2' set into m/84'/0'/1' one to see your fund there. But why to do this? It mixes the  hierarchical deterministic logic.

Thank you for the recommendation but I don't think I am comfortable altering the derivation path just to see the balance. I'll stick with funding the empty wallet first to see the 3rd account.

Anyways, thank you all for replies. Very much appreciated.

[Lucius]

Well  this is a recent upgrade. I disnt know about it, thanks.

I have to correct you, this is not a recent update as it has been almost 1 year since version 2.11.1.

v2.11.1

@Arnaud97234 Arnaud97234 released this on 10 Sep 2020
🎊 New features

    Added support for Algorand (ALGO) assets directly in Ledger Live!
    Manage your Algorand accounts, send, receive ALGO, and earn rewards!
    Coin Control support for Bitcoin and Bitcoin-based assets in the send flow.
    Full Bitcoin Cash CashAddr support, now used for receiving addresses and in operation details.
    Improved crypto and fiat currency formatting.
    Added operation type in operation details (Send, Receive, Stake, etc.).
    Reformatted the identifier displayed during a firmware update to make it easier to verify.

Anyway it can't even sign messages... 

This feature has also been announced, and I have to admit it’s a little weird that it’s not included as a standard part of Ledger Live, as it existed in the Ledger Chrome App.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Important thing to know is if you generated seed words with Ledger wallet (BIP39) or with Electrum that uses their own system for seed words.

If he is using Ledger Live, then there is no way he could have generated an Electrum seed phrase since he cannot import this in to a Ledger hardware wallet.

However you may import the private key/s from m/84'/0'/2' set into m/84'/0'/1' one to see your fund there. But why to do this? It mixes the  hierarchical deterministic logic.

You cannot import private keys to a different derivation path or "overwrite" a derivation path with a different one. You can only create a new wallet with imported private keys without an associated derivation path. He would have to create a new Electrum wallet, without an associated seed phrase, and import the private keys in question, but this obviously introduces new risks of not being recoverable from his seed phrase. I don't think Ledger Live permits importing private keys at all.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Duch, I was thinking of sweeping

Ahh right, that makes more sense. Yeah, sweeping from 2' to 1' and just using the 1' account is probably the most straightforward option. The other options are to deposit a few hundred sats to the 1' account so Ledger Live continues to scan further accounts, or just ditch Ledger Live altogether and only use Electrum.

[Pmalek]

He would have to create a new Electrum wallet, without an associated seed phrase, and import the private keys in question, but this obviously introduces new risks of not being recoverable from his seed phrase. I don't think Ledger Live permits importing private keys at all.

But he can't do that with a Ledger seed. I don't remember ever seeing an option in Ledger Live that allows you to export private keys. Can it be done from the app? I am certain Electrum can't extract them.

The only way that I know of to get private keys for specific coins would be to import the seed phrase into the Iancoleman tool in an offline environment. But that exposes your seed and shouldn't really be done unless there is not other way out.   

[o_e_l_e_o]

But he can't do that with a Ledger seed. I don't remember ever seeing an option in Ledger Live that allows you to export private keys. Can it be done from the app? I am certain Electrum can't extract them.

No, it cannot be extracted using Ledger Live, Electrum, or any other wallet app or software. Being able to extract private keys from a hardware wallet would defeat the purpose of the hardware wallet.

The only way that I know of to get private keys for specific coins would be to import the seed phrase into the Iancoleman tool in an offline environment. But that exposes your seed and shouldn't really be done unless there is not other way out.   

Yes, you need to work from the seed phrase, using Ian Coleman or any other open source software which lets you do this. As you say though, this is a significant risk if you don't know what you are doing and should only be done on an airgapped computer in an emergency situation.