Hey! Let me pick up a rock and let's buy it from each other...

[kryptqnick]

Isn't that basically what bitcoin is?

We can hardly buy anything with it. We just give it value for the sake of giving it value.

Bitcoin has a higher potential, and that also matters. If we consider Bitcoin merely as an asset that one holds and then sells for profit, it's different from a valuable rock because it's way easier to buy/sell and hodl due to it being digital, but these differences can be called non-essential. But Bitcoin is something you can send to others, no matter where they are, and you can do it without intermediaries. What's a pretty cool feature that rocks lack. Also, one can buy things with Bitcoin, and there are more and more places all over the world that allow to do that. Finally, unlike a rock, Bitcoin cannot be faked, so it's safer.

[cotton ball]

our main foundation trust is value, can you prove the stone you are going to take is valuable, and can be sold anywhere, and certainly can the stone you mean can be exchanged for fiat currency, if the exchange rate is high, we will think of an offer you, but if you can't prove it, the better offer you give, you better take back all your words..

[yazher]

We can buy anything with it because it has some huge value right now and more and more people are accepting it every day from the big companies to the small stores that have some big trust in the success of bitcoins. I used to but in-game items on the MMORPG I used to play with it before the NFT era. you just need to open your mind and ponder what's going on here because by using paper money, we cannot free ourselves from the bank's manipulations and we will remain slaves to their huge taxes and transparency of our transaction history.

[Stalker22]

We can buy anything with it because it has some huge value right now and more and more people are accepting it every day from the big companies to the small stores that have some big trust in the success of bitcoins.

Exactly. Even Peter Schiff, probably the biggest Bitcoin critic, admitted recently that he could have bought a private jet with bitcoin, provided he had invested when he first learned about it. 

[franky1]

Isn’t that idea the same with the paper bills that you are using right now? We just ‘trusted’ the central authority that issues the paper bills that it is worth something

fiat is not based on pure trust.
its based on laws. such as:
people are paid a minimum wage of X fiat.
people have to pay tax at a % of fiat
the country utilises only certain format of fiat

thats what gives fiat value. the laws

[Fortify]

Isn't that basically what bitcoin is?

We can hardly buy anything with it. We just give it value for the sake of giving it value.

Matter of fact, let's do just that for the heck of it, see how far we can go with it. I'll pick up a rock and call it Akorn and put it up for $10. I'll buy it back for $10 and let's see how much it'd be worth by the end of the year.

I think that is a bit of an unfair comparison. If you are creative enough there are actually a lot of outlets to buy things with Bitcoin and it is possible to buy most physical goods with in these days. There is less accessibility for purchasing services (like covering a trip to the dentist) but even that can be solved in a sense with access to Bitcoin ATM machines. I'd say it has actually achieved a lot in the ten years it has existed so far, considering it is a brand new payment method - not like a new debit/credit card provider who might just piggy back off existing infrastructure and has everything laid out already. Every day we see new outlets for it and that seems like progress to me - good luck trading much for your collection of rocks.

[Oilacris]

Isn't that basically what bitcoin is?

We can hardly buy anything with it. We just give it value for the sake of giving it value.

Matter of fact, let's do just that for the heck of it, see how far we can go with it. I'll pick up a rock and call it Akorn and put it up for $10. I'll buy it back for $10 and let's see how much it'd be worth by the end of the year.

That would be still $10 in the end of the year because value isnt something that you can just mandate and if done personal then it would just only be good on that scope and i dont see about picturing out Bitcoin

on acting to be the same because value isnt something that do came from an individual but been made out by the community. It isnt just been used on online transactions but you can really buy something from it.

Adoption is on the move and we've seen big progress until this very moment which i dont really see for this comparison or trying to make some example about bitcoin and a rock named Akorn. 

[pinggoki]

Rocks on their own basically have no much use, plus fungibility is also an issue when it comes to using rocks, just because you called this rock precious doesn't necessarily mean that I will let you trade that for my gold collection per se. With bitcoin it's different, the common people's mistake is assuming that bitcoin's value is not backed by anything except the faith of the people that are investing in it which is of course not true. Some of us here invest for the technology. Some see it as a currency and had been using it for anonymous transactions. Plus, the argument that it doesn't do much is quite false as well, because as we speak, there are plans and are upcoming plans for bitcoin utilization in the physical and online world.

Isn’t that idea the same with the paper bills that you are using right now? We just ‘trusted’ the central authority that issues the paper bills that it is worth something

fiat is not based on pure trust.
its based on laws. such as:
people are paid a minimum wage of X fiat.
people have to pay tax at a % of fiat
the country utilises only certain format of fiat

thats what gives fiat value. the laws

This is both right and wrong. Paper bills in the past are made as a placeholder for when you don't have the gold coins to purchase goods, with paper bills practically meaning that "I owed you this much gold coins with this purchase, you have to trust me that sooner or later I will pay you with its counterpart in gold". Until some time later we find out that we can endow these bills with value themselves and not just use them as placeholders, hence why we call these "banknotes". Now going back, it is quite true that the ones who protect a fiat currency's value is its own government, but what endows it with value is the economy it is backed upon.

[franky1]

thats what gives fiat value. the laws

This is both right and wrong. Paper bills in the past are made as a placeholder for when you don't have the gold coins to purchase goods, with paper bills practically meaning that "I owed you this much gold coins with this purchase, you have to trust me that sooner or later I will pay you with its counterpart in gold". Until some time later we find out that we can endow these bills with value themselves and not just use them as placeholders, hence why we call these "banknotes". Now going back, it is quite true that the ones who protect a fiat currency's value is its own government, but what endows it with value is the economy it is backed upon.
[/quote]


pre bank notes there were no money laws.
there was no minimum wage. there was no income tax

the first american income tax came in in 1861 and it was valued in DOLLARS not gold dust
yep bank notes have been around for quite a while.

before that. in the gold era. it was more like service charges not income %

at first it was its legal tender and tax payment laws enforcing fiat be circulated and taxed upon that keeps fiat relevant and important to all commerce


then. the value became based on the sweat labour value of minimum wage as the stabalising factor once dropping the gold standard. which translates to how many [loaves of bread] an hours labour is worth and the value balance there of. of everything compared to fair value of what an hours minimum labour deserves.



to put it short
if retailers in america would usually accept say.. euros.
and be allowed to freely pay employees in euros and their pensions plans in euros and the taxes in euros.. america would not have a powerful dollar.
its due to the laws keeping the dollar relevant for all transactions that keep its value

[taufik123]

I think that is a bit of an unfair comparison. If you are creative enough there are actually a lot of outlets to buy things with Bitcoin and it is possible to buy most physical goods with in these days. There is less accessibility for purchasing services (like covering a trip to the dentist) but even that can be solved in a sense with access to Bitcoin ATM machines. I'd say it has actually achieved a lot in the ten years it has existed so far, considering it is a brand new payment method - not like a new debit/credit card provider who might just piggy back off existing infrastructure and has everything laid out already. Every day we see new outlets for it and that seems like progress to me - good luck trading much for your collection of rocks.

Some outlets that allow purchases using bitcoin are aware of the use of bitcoins which can be useful as a profitable investment. but we also have to see where the transaction is done. in developing countries it is still not allowed to be used as a legal payment option, only as a commodity trade.

ATM bitcoin is only as a means to get bitcoin more easily without KYC and is global. To make payments using bitcoin, anyone can actually do it, either individually or in a P2P system, without the need to give anyone permission. You have an item and I need bitcoins, set a price and make transactions between wallets. very simple.

[Darker45]

Isn't that basically what bitcoin is?

No, it's not. Bitcoin is not just some random stuff from the internet. It has peculiar features which make it coveted.

We can hardly buy anything with it. We just give it value for the sake of giving it value.

Yes, you can hardly buy anything with it. You know why? Primarily because people would rather keep it than spend it. However, despite Bitcoin not an acceptable currency in most parts of the world, you can actually buy a cup of coffee with it, and a slice of pizza, a burger, a house, and a Lambo.

As to its value, just like anything which has value, even a rock, there must be certain features which give it value. The varying values attached to different kinds of rocks are based on how common they are, their physical qualities, chemical composition, difficulty obtaining, and so on. There is a reason why gold is much more expensive than your garden rock.

Matter of fact, let's do just that for the heck of it, see how far we can go with it. I'll pick up a rock and call it Akorn and put it up for $10. I'll buy it back for $10 and let's see how much it'd be worth by the end of the year.

Why not start with this experiment? Let's see how this will turn out.

[Kong Hey Pakboy]

I don't know about you OP but that's how most currency and bartering with precious metals and stones were done back then so I don't exactly know how bitcoin and cryptocurrencies be any different than that. Also, is that even important anymore? Bitcoin's come a long way already and your type of people are still questioning it's credibility?

[fullhdpixel]

Isn't that basically what bitcoin is?

We can hardly buy anything with it. We just give it value for the sake of giving it value.

Matter of fact, let's do just that for the heck of it, see how far we can go with it. I'll pick up a rock and call it Akorn and put it up for $10. I'll buy it back for $10 and let's see how much it'd be worth by the end of the year.

Well, it’s not just about picking up a rock. In the olden days there were times that rocks were used and stored by people as an asset. But the difference between that and what you have said here is that they didn’t just make use of any rock, instead they used precious rocks or stones or you can as well call them gemstones, however you want to say it.

And these precious stones were not the every day type of rock you see, they are usually scarce. Diamond is one of those precious stones that they used. Others were emeralds, sapphires, and rubies. Next are precious metals like gold. The way bitcoin is built, it is similar to these precious stones and metals. I think you should take time and study bitcoin to understand it.

[DaveF]

I guess the question really comes down to what CAN'T you buy with BTC.
Through places like Bitrefill / BitPay you can get gift cards for just about anyplace.
Through Coinbase / BitPay you can get a debit card that can be funded with BTC and other cryptos.

There are 1000s of online stores that take BTC through various services.
And so on.

For anyone to say "We can hardly buy anything with it." means they don't have a clue.
There are even stories of people out there who lived on crypto for a year. Yes it was a stunt, but it can be done.

-Dave

[Lucius]

For anyone to say "We can hardly buy anything with it." means they don't have a clue.
There are even stories of people out there who lived on crypto for a year. Yes it was a stunt, but it can be done.

I think people shape their opinions by what they see, hear or read in their environment or online - so I believe the OP can really state that it can't buy almost anything for BTC, because it may be from a country where there really isn't anyone selling something for crypto. On the other hand, it still takes a bit of intelligence to find something online - because some still don't know how to use search engines.

Not only are there people who have proven that one can only live with crypto for a while, but some also live like that for years, and perhaps the best example is “The Bitcoin Family”.

It is absolutely not worth commenting on the theory of stone compared to Bitcoin, because if someone wants to understand why Bitcoin has value, he should learn some basics - this knowledge is completely free.

[mrongos]

whatever you want to do, then you must have strong belief, and you must be confident, you must also dare to take risks, like Satoshi who has dared to take risks, and in the end now he has succeeded, and has been able to convince everyone, For what he has tried, if you want to succeed, you have to sacrifice.

[nightxglow]

Not really, you can't use rocks for transaction, while in fact, bitcoin can be used as a method of payment, to transact. Have you tried it yet? Other than that, bitcoin is not that useless. Bitcoin has such a great technology called blockchain, and it has so many advantages. If not, people won't be dumb enough to buy it, and keep pumping it until it reaches $45k now. The fact that bitcoin is intangible might be the reason why people think it's worthless, since it doesn't have a shape, so why do people want to own it? they don't even have the real thing. However, it is what a digital currency is.

[ChrisPop]

Come on. You can't compare Bitcoin with a rock. First of all, Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency - nowhere near a rock. It's quite the opposite as it has no physical form.

We do not give BTC value just because for the sake of giving it value. Bitcoin has its specific characteristics that make it a valuable asset to own such as:

• a scarce, known max supply 21M
• a secure, decentralized network backed by nodes all around the world
• the ability to not depend on a centralized entity to intermediate transactions
• and more...

I do agree that a lot of altcoins present now on the market do not bring any added value. So it would be something like this "I create a number of useless rocks (altcoins) and let's see how high can they get". It's a shame as the money pumped into them could be better used elsewhere.

[blckhawk]

Uhh, OP learned how barter and fiat money works? That's cute, at least people now knows about the basics of how we put value on something base on trust. My point is that OP, you are saying that bitcoin was valued on how we deem it's value is but you forgot the fact that that's how almost anything precious has been traded a long time ago.

[bittraffic]

Uhh, OP learned how barter and fiat money works? That's cute, at least people now knows about the basics of how we put value on something base on trust. My point is that OP, you are saying that bitcoin was valued on how we deem it's value is but you forgot the fact that that's how almost anything precious has been traded a long time ago.

As if they are the first to realized it. But many have already gone to the realization and back to learn more about Bitcoin.

This is what normally what they say when people are new to Bitcoin  and have not tried understanding blockchain. Close to a scam like a pyramid scheme. But this isn't what it is when they finally see how blockchain works.