Will Afghanistan fall into a prolonged state of war again?

[suchmoon]

You make a good point in that the Afghans clearly were willing to fight the war with US assistance.

That's not really what dying in a war means, especially if you're a civilian.

[Pbacala]

I can't find the original story: https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20210703-us-withdrawal-from-strategic-afghan-base-involves-degree-of-humiliation

But if you remember 2-3 months ago US withdrew from a military base near Kabul and the Afghan army found out in the morning what was going on. Stop pls saying Biden is a saint

[PrimeNumber7]

You make a good point in that the Afghans clearly were willing to fight the war with US assistance.

That's not really what dying in a war means, especially if you're a civilian.

If you are referring to civilian deaths as a result of the war, the US pulling out of Afghanistan means the number of civilian deaths will go up. There is a reason why people were willing to hang onto the wings of a plane in an attempt to escape the Taliban -- it is because the Taliban is a brutal organization.

Over 70% of the people of Afghanistan is under age 25, meaning they have always lived in a country that gave them freedom and opportunity. With the Taliban, rights will be stripped of almost everyone, and there will be no opportunity for the Afghan people.

To argue that the Taliban taking over Afghanistan is somehow humanitarian is just ridiclous.

[Pbacala]

You make a good point in that the Afghans clearly were willing to fight the war with US assistance.

That's not really what dying in a war means, especially if you're a civilian.

If you are referring to civilian deaths as a result of the war, the US pulling out of Afghanistan means the number of civilian deaths will go up. There is a reason why people were willing to hang onto the wings of a plane in an attempt to escape the Taliban -- it is because the Taliban is a brutal organization.

Over 70% of the people of Afghanistan is under age 25, meaning they have always lived in a country that gave them freedom and opportunity. With the Taliban, rights will be stripped of almost everyone, and there will be no opportunity for the Afghan people.

To argue that the Taliban taking over Afghanistan is somehow humanitarian is just ridiclous.

Very much true! But the problem is that they grew in a country they were opressed from their point of view of US. so their hate towards everything that is not nationalism is natural and can't be denied. In a very much weird way they will turn arround for the conservatorism and I am ok with that. The main problem and my main only concern is what happens with the women there. I find it inhuman to take a woman's rights because the real god whispered in Mohammad ear that the all other gods are fake. This was not a coupe d'etat. We all saw it coming, it's us fault that they did not respect the deal they had with talibans, maybe they would not even respect it a bit, but this gave them the reason to justify their action. We should be happy this war was a short one.

[suchmoon]

To argue that the Taliban taking over Afghanistan is somehow humanitarian is just ridiclous.

Who the fuck is arguing that? One of your straw people? You're getting really confused here. Put some flowers on the newest tombstone in the graveyard of empires and move on. You have no clue what you're talking about.

[tvbcof]

...

They won't do any of these things. They sure as hell won't respect women either. Never take Islamic terrorist seriously when they subject women to the torture of islamic theocracy. They'll be sure to rape women, or stone women to death for the crime of going out uncovered, or being unaccompanied by a man at the local shop.

These extremists' idea of treating women fairly is in accordance to their own twisted mentality in strict adherence to the core values of Islam. If you've ever read the Quran, it doesn't embody equality too well.

I bought all the stories bout the evil 'radical Islamists' for decades.  Now I'm not so sure about a lot of this stuff.  For one, the people who 'control the narrative' are known liars, and seem to lie just for the fun of it often enough.  For two, it just doesn't make any sense that the real people on-the-ground in this country would be strongly opposed to 'the Talliban' and all their proclivities given the (reported) recent success.

Could it be that ordinary people simply appreciate honesty more than lies even if they don't agree with the entity?  I mean people who do what they say and say what they do like H. al-Assad, Nassaralla, etc?

Or maybe they don't like it when Afghan taxi drivers are imprisoned  at Bagram air-base and, when some psycho needs to 'blow off a little steam', hangs the person by his arms and beats him to death by hitting his legs with a club.  The coroner said that this guy would have had to have had his legs amputated if he had survived.  That's 'American exceptionalism' for ya...under the direction of the 'chosen people' at least.  Just because red-blooded Americans lost their power of memory left doesn't mean that Afghans have.

Another thing I would note is that the 'leaders' of so-called "ISIS" usually got their kippahs swapped out for turbans before the photoshoots but not always.  It's possible that 'this is not your grand-dad's Taliban' so-to-speak.  Even if it is, it was more-or-less a creation of the CIA anyway...but I repeat myself.

[B1tUnl0ck3r]

...

They won't do any of these things. They sure as hell won't respect women either. Never take Islamic terrorist seriously when they subject women to the torture of islamic theocracy. They'll be sure to rape women, or stone women to death for the crime of going out uncovered, or being unaccompanied by a man at the local shop.

These extremists' idea of treating women fairly is in accordance to their own twisted mentality in strict adherence to the core values of Islam. If you've ever read the Quran, it doesn't embody equality too well.

I bought all the stories bout the evil 'radical Islamists' for decades.  Now I'm not so sure about a lot of this stuff.  For one, the people who 'control the narrative' are known liars, and seem to lie just for the fun of it often enough.  For two, it just doesn't make any sense that the real people on-the-ground in this country would be strongly opposed to 'the Talliban' and all their proclivities given the (reported) recent success.

Could it be that ordinary people simply appreciate honesty more than lies even if they don't agree with the entity?  I mean people who do what they say and say what they do like H. al-Assad, Nassaralla, etc?

Or maybe they don't like it when Afghan taxi drivers are imprisoned  at Bagram air-base and, when some psycho needs to 'blow off a little steam', hangs the person by his arms and beats him to death by hitting his legs with a club.  The coroner said that this guy would have had to have had his legs amputated if he had survived.  That's 'American exceptionalism' for ya...under the direction of the 'chosen people' at least.  Just because red-blooded Americans lost their power of memory left doesn't mean that Afghans have.

Another thing I would note is that the 'leaders' of so-called "ISIS" usually got their kippahs swapped out for turbans before the photoshoots but not always.  It's possible that 'this is not your grand-dad's Taliban' so-to-speak.  Even if it is, it was more-or-less a creation of the CIA anyway...but I repeat myself.

Thanks for your input gentleman. I hope to be able to share your pain. I have colored in red a part I really do appreciate... I personally can't stand lies anymore. I prefer failures, even craziness to lies and hypocrisy. As bad as it is, just say it, and let's work back from there. I don't need to protected, nor manipulated. Just the raw data, facts, the simple "what's going on".

[franky1]

Probably not. The Afghanistan military more or less put up no fight against the Taliban once Biden pulled American and allied troops out. The Taliban will take over the entire country in short order.

it was trump that ordered recruiting and training those troops that didnt defend their own country
it was trump that ordered the pulling out of american defense.

yes biden sits in the hotseat now. but it was trump that lit that seat on fire first

[Twinkledoe]

Seal the borders for a year or more to let the Afghani's settle things for themselves. It is their country and their problem. Then as long as the victors do not threaten their neighbors or rest of the world (or give sanctuary to others who do), start negotiating with them regarding world trade.

Maybe, it is time to give the power to them. It is their country, so be it. They have their own beliefs, culture and that's what they want to live by. Unfortunately, they have different outlook when it comes to women's rights. Maybe this war will be over if countries like US will not meddle their government affairs. But for those who don't want to live under the Islamic Estate, I hope they can find a way how to get out.

[cmg777]

To argue that the Taliban taking over Afghanistan is somehow humanitarian is just ridiclous.

Who the fuck is arguing that? One of your straw people? You're getting really confused here. Put some flowers on the newest tombstone in the graveyard of empires and move on. You have no clue what you're talking about.

Uh CNN and MSNBC the usual suspects here just like those on BitcoinTalk...

CNN - “They’re chanting ‘Death to America’ but they seem friendly”?
https://twitter.com/nuffsaidny/status/1427285034801713160

CNN - CNN reporter Clarissa Ward before and after the fall of Kabul to the Taliban.
https://twitter.com/vtchakarova/status/1427271320492990478

MSNBC - MSNBC says it's been a "relatively peaceful" takeover of Afghanistan by the Taliban.
https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1427256303894896649

Probably not. The Afghanistan military more or less put up no fight against the Taliban once Biden pulled American and allied troops out. The Taliban will take over the entire country in short order.

1. it was trump that ordered recruiting and training those troops that didnt defend their own country
2. it was trump that ordered the pulling out of american defense.

3. yes biden sits in the hotseat now. but it was trump that lit that seat on fire first

1. What rock have you been living under? We've been held Afganistan for the last 20 years. The Afghani forces have been trained under Bush, Obama, and lastly Trump. The soldiers literally called them fuckards when Bush was in charge because the Afghanis were so dumb and poorly educated. I wish I could find the clip but regardless they've had 20 years and they've been dependent upon the US just like I'm sure many are dependant upon Uncle Sam for a free handout every month and hell under COVID 'free rent'.

2. I'm actually agreeing with you on this one for once. Trump did want us to pull out of the middle east period. He didn't start any wars like most Republicans do. What is interesting is Trump actually added troops to Afghanistan in 2017. So really your point is somewhat flawed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41314428

He wanted to pull us out of Afghanistan in 2020 and there was a build down after the build up.

3. Sure he sits in the hot seat and now their facade that Biden is cognitive and doesn't need to be 25th amendment'd is now fading. Kamila Harris wants to do this to him.

 https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1427146654763859970

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1427452358166990853

https://twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1427147474880368641

[B1tUnl0ck3r]

To argue that the Taliban taking over Afghanistan is somehow humanitarian is just ridiclous.

Who the fuck is arguing that? One of your straw people? You're getting really confused here. Put some flowers on the newest tombstone in the graveyard of empires and move on. You have no clue what you're talking about.

Uh CNN and MSNBC the usual suspects here just like those on BitcoinTalk...

CNN - “They’re chanting ‘Death to America’ but they seem friendly”?
https://twitter.com/nuffsaidny/status/1427285034801713160

CNN - CNN reporter Clarissa Ward before and after the fall of Kabul to the Taliban.
https://twitter.com/vtchakarova/status/1427271320492990478

MSNBC - MSNBC says it's been a "relatively peaceful" takeover of Afghanistan by the Taliban.
https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1427256303894896649

Probably not. The Afghanistan military more or less put up no fight against the Taliban once Biden pulled American and allied troops out. The Taliban will take over the entire country in short order.

1. it was trump that ordered recruiting and training those troops that didnt defend their own country
2. it was trump that ordered the pulling out of american defense.

3. yes biden sits in the hotseat now. but it was trump that lit that seat on fire first

1. What rock have you been living under? We've been held Afganistan for the last 20 years. The Afghani forces have been trained under Bush, Obama, and lastly Trump. The soldiers literally called them fuckards when Bush was in charge because the Afghanis were so dumb and poorly educated. I wish I could find the clip but regardless they've had 20 years and they've been dependent upon the US just like I'm sure many are dependant upon Uncle Sam for a free handout every month and hell under COVID 'free rent'.

2. I'm actually agreeing with you on this one for once. Trump did want us to pull out of the middle east period. He didn't start any wars like most Republicans do. What is interesting is Trump actually added troops to Afghanistan in 2017. So really your point is somewhat flawed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41314428

He wanted to pull us out of Afghanistan in 2020 and there was a build down after the build up.

3. Sure he sits in the hot seat and now their facade that Biden is cognitive and doesn't need to be 25th amendment'd is now fading. Kamila Harris wants to do this to him.

 https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1427146654763859970

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1427452358166990853

https://twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1427147474880368641

you are ill informed, the reality is that the ANA only learned to fight with air support + us mercs + when things really got out of hands with american spec ops. they were left alone, unprepared.

secondly you have to forget the my team, their team (dems, reps) or what ever, but move to corrupts vs uncorrupts.

thirdly, you are right, some wants to live their lives the closest possible to sharia and the example of the Prophet (pbuh) and sadly others don't. Personnally, I don't like trannie story times, girls with blue hair and multiple sexual parteners, polyamory, denying basic biology, lies on tv, forced medication or a one world order government, however I still like bacon over my cheese burger.

in short I waste my time... they should be an iq and culture test before posting... .

this forum sucks.

bye.  

ps the previous afghan gov had tonnes of media operatives, online, in the traditional medias, etc, it was still smashed down in less than 600 hours and 8h of so called combat in it's capital... that's the reality of your work propagandists. and worst you dilute the thinking force of your nation with your constant crap about such or such "political agendas", all of those the previous afghan gov had, and look at them now... you think that as a little proagandists someone will pick you up at the airport of your capital? what do you think happened to the frontline germans nazis propagandists at each front collapse?

keep your jobs, spew the bs, then perish

how many seconds did it took to take back Crimoo? hehehe... performance is really rarely appreciated

bye

[cmg777]

in short I waste my time... they should be an iq and culture test before posting... .

this forum sucks.

The only thing I slightly agree with you on is the right vs. left or corrupt vs. lesser evil narrative is shit and it sucks. I guess I'm showing who I've become more right leaning over the years than left leaning. BTW I did not even respond to you so I guess you failed part of your own test. As for the other part of the IQ test you failed at is grammar test so I'll correct the quote above for you:

There should be IQ and culture tests before someone posts what is on their mind .

I even expanded the thoughts that were your sentence. No, the forum doesn't suck I don't blame the coding it is rather dated though to have Flash as a post option. I think some of the people suck though.  

[franky1]

Probably not. The Afghanistan military more or less put up no fight against the Taliban once Biden pulled American and allied troops out. The Taliban will take over the entire country in short order.

1. it was trump that ordered recruiting and training those troops that didnt defend their own country
2. it was trump that ordered the pulling out of american defense.

3. yes biden sits in the hotseat now. but it was trump that lit that seat on fire first

1. What rock have you been living under? We've been held Afganistan for the last 20 years. The Afghani forces have been trained under Bush, Obama, and lastly Trump.  

you do know the Afghans trained 20 years ago retired right..

most of the afghan military of 2016+ were not even born when the battles began
when you realise that most military frontlines are filled with people 18-24.. you have to realise that the guys trained in 2003 are now like 40yo and retired. probably working as security for supermarkets or bars now.
and the afghans in the military 2016+ are fresh recruits in their prime 18-24, trained(if you can call it that) recently

2. I'm actually agreeing with you on this one for once. Trump did want us to pull out of the middle east period. He didn't start any wars like most Republicans do. What is interesting is Trump actually added troops to Afghanistan in 2017. So really your point is somewhat flawed.

funny part is you pretend trump "wanted" as if it was a wish he didnt follow through on..  and not a physical act.. but reality is that he actually created a policy to withdraw troops in 2020.. and he made it so that it was near impossible to undo this policy by any new administration.. oops you forgot that bit
even last month trump was proudly chest beating how he actually made the policy that cant be undone
https://youtu.be/Fb0oBYkO--I?t=281
last year TRUMP organised a reduction of troops by july 2020 and a full removal by may 2021
emphasis trump
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_of_United_States_troops_from_Afghanistan_(2020%E2%80%932021)#Withdrawal
trump cut a deal WITH THE TALIBAN they they can take power as long as the taliban dont let al-queda take power

seems your trump fangirlism makes you not see real history and only see trumps glossy pamphlets.
and no tweet links from other fangirls will change history. it will just blind other fangirls into being fangirls and ignorant of history

[cmg777]

https://youtu.be/Fb0oBYkO--I?t=281

So if your theory is right those guys retiring should have trained their successors in their own language instead of having Yankee soldier yell "hey fucktard" (kid you not seen this in a evening news broadcast but fucktard was bleeped out lol). The successors should have trained well and the people that you claim now work in supermarkets or other industries should have gotten off their asses and fought for their own country. Bet the veterans that are now working in other industries right now in our country will fight for us when shit hits the fan and perception of the FED stamps and class is removed from our minds.  Ok so you get your news from a late night comic while I post from the BBC news. If you were trying to make a comic point then make it. Enough said.

[franky1]

So if your theory is right those guys retiring should have trained their successors in their own language instead of having Yankee soldier yell "hey fucktard" (kid you not seen this in a evening news broadcast but fucktard was bleeped out lol). The successors should have trained well and the people that you claim now work in supermarkets or other industries should have gotten off their asses and fought for their own country.  

actually YOUR OWN theory.. the extra 4000 troops in 2017(YOU MENTIONED). were added to increase the amount of training and advising..
meaning US had to INCREASE training.

US Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis praised the decision: "This assures the department can facilitate our missions and nimbly align our commitment to the situation on the ground. Our overall mission in Afghanistan remains the same, to train, advise and assist the Afghan forces so they can safeguard the Afghan people and terrorists can find no haven in Afghanistan for attacking us or others

as for me getting the clip of trump from a comic.
it was more about ease of a short clip to display.
i had links of trumps whole speach but that 2 hour video was just trumptardy gorilla chest beating. so i just looked up a quick link to a short version.

as for the afghans getting off their asses.. well when US done a deal WITH the taliban. its pretty much a stand down order for those fighting against the taliban to not put up a fight

oh and lets not forget. the taliban in afghanistan.. actually are afghanistan people too


imagine a dystopian version of america over the last 20 years
imagine it more like europe invading america 20 years ago and dictating that republicans are the enemy and europeans were training democrats to fight the republicans.
then dacade(s) later the europeans withdraw by doing a deal with republicans to win over the country as long as mexicans didnt take over..
no one likes the republicans but they are trying to force in their own government.
europeans are pretending that republicans are not true americans even though they let republicans invade the capital..
now its just time to get a real election where maybe the republicans step back and democrats take charge politically

[Gyfts]

On the press menu for Joe Biden - https://twitter.com/KellieMeyerNews/status/1427802209740369921

No mention of Afghanistan (unless things changed), it's only Covid related. Situation hasn't improved and the Biden administration isn't even sure how many US citizens remain in the region. Current plans are for US military protection of Kabul's airport to end August 31st, no guarantee that Americans will be on a flight home by that time, they're being told to shelter in place for the moment, and fill out an e-form. So a clusterfuck, for lack of a better term.
 

[Xinarae*]

The war in afghanistan has claimed thousands of lives and displaced millions. In an agreement with the united states the taliban has promised that it will not allow afghanistan to become a base for any terrorist group that could pose a threat to western countries the local political culture cannot be changed by force of arms in any society. The afghan war has been won by local social forces against america if this education reduces military aggression around the world, it will be a good achievement to end the Afghan war.

[PrimeNumber7]

Probably not. The Afghanistan military more or less put up no fight against the Taliban once Biden pulled American and allied troops out. The Taliban will take over the entire country in short order.

it was trump that ordered recruiting and training those troops that didnt defend their own country
it was trump that ordered the pulling out of american defense.

yes biden sits in the hotseat now. but it was trump that lit that seat on fire first

The Afghan military has been fighting the war since 2014. Trump did not make the decision to recruit, nor train them. The Afghan military relied on air and logistics support from the US, which Biden removed.

Trump was going to withdraw from Afghanistan but was going to keep Bagram air force base so we could still easily launch airstrikes. Trump would also only withdraw troops based on the conditions on the ground.

Trump was going to continue to provide the Afghan military support via air support. Biden basically handed the country over to the Taliban.

On the press menu for Joe Biden - https://twitter.com/KellieMeyerNews/status/1427802209740369921

No mention of Afghanistan (unless things changed), it's only Covid related. Situation hasn't improved and the Biden administration isn't even sure how many US citizens remain in the region. Current plans are for US military protection of Kabul's airport to end August 31st, no guarantee that Americans will be on a flight home by that time, they're being told to shelter in place for the moment, and fill out an e-form. So a clusterfuck, for lack of a better term.
 

Biden is going to keep silent on Afghanistan as long as possible. He is going to avoid answering questions on Afghanistan for even longer. I am willing to bet that Biden will not take questions tomorrow. Biden saying anything on Afghanistan will hurt him politically. If Biden does not get his messaging on Afghanistan exactly right, it will end his presidency, and how Afghanistan was handled may end it anyway.

Biden was warned about the consequences of abandoning Afghanistan, but he did it anyway. He ignored advice from military and national security advisors. His administration was unprepared for how quickly the Taliban was able to take over.

[Tash]

Country may end up split-up  with a break away Northern Alliance
https://www.reddit.com/r/afghanistan/comments/p65wye/possible_new_footage_from_panjshir/

[PrimeNumber7]

We've been there for almost 20 years. Billions of dollars, thousands of lives -- all for what exactly?

Preventing another 9/11 style attack. Preventing terrorists from having a safe haven in Afghanistan. Giving basic human rights that Democrats claim to care about to the people of Afghanistan.

We have had less than 23 combat-related troop deaths per year since 2015. While we should do everything to prevent American military losses, this is a small price to pay compared to the next Obama Bin Ladin being able to carry out another 9/11 style attack.

The way I see it Biden showed strength where Trump would have displayed dicklessness.

There are currently somewhere between 11 and 40 thousand Americans in Afghanistan who need to leave the country. The Taliban currently has a "ring" around the Kabul airport, which is the only way out of the country. This does not count the thousands of Afghan translators who helped the US over the last 20 years.

To put the above another way, the Taliban currently has up to 40,000 American hostages. In the last 24 hours, the US was able to evacuate around 700 Americans out of Afghanistan.