Debate: Bitcoin vs Gold with Anthony Scaramucci and Peter Schiff

[Charles-Tim]

The moderator said the world economy was plunged into crisis as a result of covid-19, many economists predicted a great time of instability in normal times investors we seek to hedge against volatility by buying gold, but this time some are putting their money in large quantity into bitcoin and other digital assets. This raise a pretty fundamental question that will bitcoin or gold be a trusted store of value and the assets of the future

I do not bother to quote Anthony Scaramucci's support for bitcoin, but you can watch the whole debate, he is definitely right.

Know the other thing about this gold versus bitcoin type debates is that in reality bitcoin and gold have absolutely nothing in common, I mean bitcoin part of the market and fraud is to try to portray Bitcoin as gold gold 2.0 digital gold I mean Bitcoin itself is always displayed as a coin and the colour is gold and put like a b on it but it's not a coin it's a digital string of numbers it doesn't have any subs it doesn't have any colour. And what made good money was the properties that gold the element processes has a metal as a commodity, bitcoin doesn't possess any of the metallic properties that gives gold value but what bitcoin tried to mimic what some of the other qualities that made gold a better form of money than other commodities that could be and have been used as money you see by definition money is the most marketable commodity, and yes Anthony mention that we use to have barter and money was an invention that made trade more efficient because barter is inherently very inefficient and so the invention of money who was a major progress as far as human history is concerned and a lot of things where money before gold ultimately immerged as the best money because it satisfies the qualities of money best and some of qualities that gold had divisibility, portability, fungibility. These are some of the properties the Bitcoin copied but without the fundamental value of gold a metal bitcoin can never be money because money has to be a store of value and a lot of people in the crypto community try to claim that Bitcoin the story of value because if you bought a time 11 years ago the prices gone up, well there is a difference between a price and value. The reason that gold as a store of value is because you are storing the value of the metal gold. Good can be used to do all sorts of things sure you could use it for jewellery... It is used in industries it's used in the aerospace medicine dentistry the results of the man should gold medal because it's the most useful metal on the periodic table even if I'm not going to use the gold myself and of those uses if I'm just going to store gold coins or gold bars you know in my safe what I'm doing is storing the future use of gold because god does not lose any of its properties over time that's what makes it such a good store of value in a 100 years in a 1000 years, gold that I am storing today can be melted down and used in electronics...and for whatever new uses have been invented that don't even exist today in contrast bitcoin can't be a store of value because it has no actual store there is nothing I can do with my Bitcoin today there is nothing anybody else can do with it tomorrow sure you can give it to somebody else we can trade bitcoin but why somebody want your Bitcoin because they think they can give it to somebody else who thinks they can give it to somebody else at a higher price this is a greater fool world Bitcoin in effect is it's kind of like a combination Ponzi scheme pyramid chain letter the only value comes from the belief the Bitcoin can be sold and the future to a greater fool who is equally convinced he can sell in the future at a hgher price, this isn't gold, this is fool's gold this is more than alchemy, bitcoin doesn't have a future to me, it is not good 2.0, this is mania 2.0, except tulips had more intrinsic value than Bitcoin because at the end of the day you had a flower

1. Bitcoin has no colour, does that means it should not be symbolized with something people can use to represent and identify it, I see this statement not necessary.

2.  Does Bitcoin has to  possess any metallic property before it can have value? The value is in demand.

3. What makes gold valuable makes bitcoin valuable? Is it not demand, irrespective of it being used for jewelries or in industries or whatever. If someone says Bitcoin is not money in this modern and digital century, I do not think the person actually know what money is. Bitcoin proves over 10 years and more now that it is an asset and also a money because it has intrinsic value and the value continues to appreciate over time, what the old type people do not want to accept. Bitcoin is actually money, what makes gold special if not its demand, exactly what makes Bitcoin special too as people see it as store of value and a speculative asset which is indeed reaching all-time-high. All we need is for people to support it and the price will appreciate as the demand increase.

4. I am surprised Peter Schiff says bitcoin is not a store of value when the store of value substances and fiat can be used to buy Bitcoin, in which the price will increase if kept for long.

5. Bitcoin is not a ponzi scheme and neither a pyramidal scheme or chain letter.

6. Fools do not buy Bitcoin, wise people buy Bitcoin because they want a way to store money against their depreciating fiat and Bitcoin never fails them. The more the adoption, the more Bitcoin will never fail.

7. Bitcoin is not gold 2.0, Bitcoin is Bitcoin, although some people are calling it digital gold but it is Bitcoin, the asset that gives the highest return in the last decade.

8. But Bitcoin still has a characteristic gold does not have, limited supply, while gold will have some characteristics bitcoin does not have but which are not needed for bitcoin to reach all-time-high and be a store of value.

Please, I will like people to comment about this. Will bitcoin be a trusted store of value and the assets of the future? Although, yes is obvious which is correct.


https://youtu.be/N2sAIhiuVAE

[o_e_l_e_o]

There is no point arguing with Peter Schiff. He does not care about facts or figures in the slightest. He is all in on gold, and so will constantly try to pump gold and shit on bitcoin.

Here is a post I made 2 years ago (almost to the day) about Peter Schiff and his terrible predictions: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5177767.msg52236976#msg52236976

When I made that post, gold was valued at $1,520 per ounce and bitcoin was valued at $10,300.
Today, gold is valued at $1,796 for a gain of 18%.
Today, bitcoin is valued at $47,400 for a gain of 360%.
If you had ignored Schiff and bought bitcoin instead of gold when I made that post, you would be 20 times better off.

He's been calling for gold to hit $5k for 10 years now, and yet in those 10 years, it has barely hit $2k. He's been calling for bitcoin to hit $1k for 5 years now, and well, we all know how that turned out. He is a broken record trying to pump his own bags, little more than an altcoin shiller just with a bigger audience.

He'll keep going for another 2 years I'm sure. If the percentages above repeat, then gold will just get over $2k as bitcoin hits $150k.

[Lucius]

There is no point arguing with Peter Schiff.

Of course, it doesn't make sense, man is what we call the "gold bug". They say that the apple does not fall far from the tree, but his son still has a completely different opinion about Bitocin - so their discussions on Twitter are already known as conflicts between father and son, although I doubted that they just want to attract even more attention to themselves.

He'll keep going for another 2 years I'm sure. If the percentages above repeat, then gold will just get over $2k as bitcoin hits $150k.

He will continue to promote his beliefs for another 22 years if he lives that long, because it is unlikely that such people will ever change their minds.

[ChiBitCTy]

There is no point arguing with Peter Schiff. He does not care about facts or figures in the slightest. He is all in on gold, and so will constantly try to pump gold and shit on bitcoin.

Here is a post I made 2 years ago (almost to the day) about Peter Schiff and his terrible predictions: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5177767.msg52236976#msg52236976

When I made that post, gold was valued at $1,520 per ounce and bitcoin was valued at $10,300.
Today, gold is valued at $1,796 for a gain of 18%.
Today, bitcoin is valued at $47,400 for a gain of 360%.
If you had ignored Schiff and bought bitcoin instead of gold when I made that post, you would be 20 times better off.

He's been calling for gold to hit $5k for 10 years now, and yet in those 10 years, it has barely hit $2k. He's been calling for bitcoin to hit $1k for 5 years now, and well, we all know how that turned out. He is a broken record trying to pump his own bags, little more than an altcoin shiller just with a bigger audience.

He'll keep going for another 2 years I'm sure. If the percentages above repeat, then gold will just get over $2k as bitcoin hits $150k.

I agree completely, Peter Schiff is a true idiot.  Gold is NOT a good investment.  It is a nice hedge, but it's not some sort of investment you should expect to make a lot of money off of.  The second thing is, the whole Gold vs Bitcoin debate itself, it's absolutely ridiculous and silly as can be.  Own both.  They are both great assets to use as a hedge, and are both likely to at least increase some over time.

[mk4]

I agree completely, Peter Schiff is a true idiot.  Gold is NOT a good investment.  It is a nice hedge, but it's not some sort of investment you should expect to make a lot of money off of.  The second thing is, the whole Gold vs Bitcoin debate itself, it's absolutely ridiculous and silly as can be.  Own both.  They are both great assets to use as a hedge, and are both likely to at least increase some over time.

I really wouldn't go that far. He sure is a traditional goldbug, but I seriously refuse to believe that he actually believes literally everything he's saying, especially the blabber on Twitter. The dude simply has gained A LOT of publicity for him AND his business by being a proactive Bitcoin hater. I doubt he'd spend that much time attacking Bitcoin and looking like a total fool without him getting anything in exchange.

[Coyster]

6. Fools do not buy Bitcoin, wise people buy Bitcoin because they want a way to store money against their depreciating fiat and Bitcoin never fails them. The more the adoption, the more Bitcoin will never fail.

Of course, simply taking a look at the level of mass adoption Bitcoin has had in the last year buttresses that fact, the influx of institutional investors, big time business men, influential individuals etc into the network proves that people who are wealthy, and by extension, understand quite a lot about finances and profitable investments are backing Bitcoin to be a reliable asset which it actually is, thus anyone making negative statements about the network does so just out of their own personal dislike.

7. Bitcoin is not gold 2.0, Bitcoin is Bitcoin, although some people are calling it digital gold but it is Bitcoin,

People actually need to stop calling Bitcoin that, it wrongly makes it look like Bitcoin is a makeshift to gold, which it actually isn't.

[Ucy]

......

I do not bother to quote Anthony Scaramucci's support for bitcoin, but you can watch the whole debate, he is definitely right.

. and some of qualities that gold had divisibility, portability, fungibility. These are some of the properties the Bitcoin copied but without the fundamental value of gold a metal bitcoin can never be money because money has to be a store of value and a lot of people in the crypto community try to claim that Bitcoin the story of value because if you bought a time 11 years ago the prices gone up, well there is a difference between a price and value. The reason that gold as a store of value is because you are storing the value of the metal gold. Good can be used to do all sorts of things sure you could use it for jewellery... It is used in industries it's used in the aerospace medicine dentistry the results of the man should gold medal because it's the most useful metal on the periodic table even if I'm not going to use the gold myself and of those uses if I'm just going to store gold coins or gold bars you know in my safe what I'm doing is storing the future use of gold because god does not lose any of its properties over time that's what makes it such a good store of value in a 100 years in a 1000 years, gold that I am storing today can be melted down and used in electronics...and for whatever new uses have been invented that don't even exist today in contrast bitcoin can't be a store of value because it has no actual store there is nothing I can do with my Bitcoin today there is nothing anybody else can do with it tomorrow sure you can give it to somebody else we can trade bitcoin but why somebody want your Bitcoin because they think they can give it to somebody else who thinks they can give it to somebody else at a higher price this is a greater fool world Bitcoin in effect is it's kind of like a combination Ponzi scheme pyramid chain letter the only value comes from the belief the Bitcoin can be sold and the future to a greater fool who is equally convinced he can sell in the future at a hgher price, this isn't gold, this is fool's gold this is more than alchemy, bitcoin doesn't have a future to me, it is not good 2.0, this is mania 2.0, except tulips had more intrinsic value than Bitcoin because at the end of the day you had a flower

.......

Well, a good Store of Value should be able to preserve the value long-term without depreciating its quality, price, etc. Bitcoin does the price aspect really well and I believe can handle the quality well as long as the internet exists,  it remain very useful, it's well decentralized etc.
The price increase is its anti-inflation feature, not ponzi.. Gold basically does thesame thing, real money should too... And it's better than having currency like fiat losing value overtime due to inflation.

You can potentially use your Bitcoin private keys to do alots of other useful things... It's just that people are yet to discover enough of its other uses. For example, you could use it to securely lock your door or secure your other important assets

[so98nn]

Umm umm, man you should always quote will crypto investors choose bitcoin or gold. Let’s understand that this world is 99% gold and unpredictable % of bitcoin. The thing is not debatable if you consider these factors in this discussion.

These choices are available only to crypto investors since they can easily switch any digital store asset. However, a gold loveable person may not be a crypto investors OR they may be on 50-50 scale whether to choose crypto or bitcoin.

If I had to choose one then obviously it would be Bitcoin for the facts like it’s limited supply, increasing demand and simply I love this asset. 

[o_e_l_e_o]

so their discussions on Twitter are already known as conflicts between father and son, although I doubted that they just want to attract even more attention to themselves.

They are just manipulating their followers. Schiff comes out and says "I'm holding 0.001 BTC as an experiment, here's my address, I sure hope no one sends me any more!" and gets a bunch of free bitcoin. Then he says "Now my son has just bought some bitcoin, look at his account here!" and then he gets a bunch more sent to him for free. Listening to Schiff on anything bitcoin related is stupid, but sending him or his son free bitcoin "to teach him a lesson" or "to spite him" or something is just downright moronic. As I said above, he is just the same as an altcoin shiller, manipulating his followers for his own benefit.

[hugeblack]

Peter Schiff is the dumbest person you can argue with and get useful information because he starts all his discussions from a rule he doesn't want to change, which is that Bitcoin is bad and that gold is the only asset.
I don't know, but everyone who looks at things as black and white is stupid because life does not depend on anything and therefore reconsidering and thinking about things is always from someone with a vision like Robert T Kiyosaki.

[Charles-Tim]

There is no point arguing with Peter Schiff. He does not care about facts or figures in the slightest. He is all in on gold, and so will constantly try to pump gold and shit on bitcoin.

What I have noticed is that people that are supporting Bitcoin do not go against gold for no reason, while they still support gold to be a store of value. Like Michael Saylor, he says Bitcoin is limited in supply, which is right, but gold is not limited in supply as there are still many gold deposit on Earth which gold miners can not perfectly and accurately fathom the days it will all be extracted. Also, Bitcoin is still seen to many to be in its young age, unlike gold that has been existing and has been used as money since over 5000 years ago till present. Also that the world is moving more into digital age. Although, it is a debate but why would someone make many lies all because he wanted to support gold, the lies that can mislead people. There are a lot of people that can now be calling Bitcoin a ponzi or a pyramidal scheme all because of that debate, all which are totally wrong about Bitcoin.

When I made that post, gold was valued at $1,520 per ounce and bitcoin was valued at $10,300.
Today, gold is valued at $1,796 for a gain of 18%.
Today, bitcoin is valued at $47,400 for a gain of 360%.
If you had ignored Schiff and bought bitcoin instead of gold when I made that post, you would be 20 times better off.

What we have just known is that gold is though a speculative asset but much more a store of value. Some people can buy and panic because the price is falling, some will have to sell their Bitcoin holding, but the people that are able to just hold and not minding of the plummeting price will later gain because the price will increase over time, reach all-time-high.

Peter Schiff is the dumbest person you can argue with and get useful information because he starts all his discussions from a rule he doesn't want to change, which is that Bitcoin is bad and that gold is the only asset.

This makes many things about the world to be full of lies, Peter Schiff making inaccurate statements about Bitcoin to support gold.

[jaysabi]

so their discussions on Twitter are already known as conflicts between father and son, although I doubted that they just want to attract even more attention to themselves.

They are just manipulating their followers. Schiff comes out and says "I'm holding 0.001 BTC as an experiment, here's my address, I sure hope no one sends me any more!" and gets a bunch of free bitcoin. Then he says "Now my son has just bought some bitcoin, look at his account here!" and then he gets a bunch more sent to him for free. Listening to Schiff on anything bitcoin related is stupid, but sending him or his son free bitcoin "to teach him a lesson" or "to spite him" or something is just downright moronic. As I said above, he is just the same as an altcoin shiller, manipulating his followers for his own benefit.

I went through a spell where I was a Schiff follower, back before Bitcoin was ever a thing, but I came to the conclusion that he generally doesn't know what he's talking about when prediction after prediction about how doomed the dollar was failed to materialize for years.  Now I look back and realize he's just preaching his doom and gloom gospel to the very niche market of rich idiots who buy into the whole USD is going to zero fiction so he can sell them asset management services based on buying gold.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Although, it is a debate but why would someone make many lies all because he wanted to support gold, the lies that can mislead people.

For the same reason most people do anything - money. The more people he can convince not to buy bitcoin and to buy gold instead, the more his bags of gold are worth. He doesn't care if what he is saying is true or not; he cares about his own personal wealth. He's quite happy to lie about bitcoin and see other people lose money, as long as he gets richer. See also: John McAfee, Elon Musk, CSW.

he generally doesn't know what he's talking about when prediction after prediction about how doomed the dollar was failed to materialize for years.

He's been predicting gold will hit $5,000 since the year 2000, and he's been predicting bitcoin will hit $0 since 2013. He is a broken record, completely insulated from the real world. It is a wonder he keeps getting invited back on TV when he has been so consistently and monumentally wrong with every single one of his predictions.

[jaysabi]

he generally doesn't know what he's talking about when prediction after prediction about how doomed the dollar was failed to materialize for years.

He's been predicting gold will hit $5,000 since the year 2000, and he's been predicting bitcoin will hit $0 since 2013. He is a broken record, completely insulated from the real world. It is a wonder he keeps getting invited back on TV when he has been so consistently and monumentally wrong with every single one of his predictions.

Well a lot of investment shows need to fill space, and it drives engagement to have someone as polarizing as Schiff on TV making brash predictions.  Hell, Jim Cramer built an entire career out of yelling aggressively.  Peter Schiff makes the same reckless predictions, albeit in a calm fashion.  They're essentially the same untrustworthy personalities peddling pseudo-nonsense, but for some reason have devoted followings, most likely by virtue of simply appearing on mass media, which implicitly gives them credibility.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Hell, Jim Cramer built an entire career out of yelling aggressively.

Genuinely laughed out loud at that.

They're essentially the same untrustworthy personalities peddling pseudo-nonsense, but for some reason have devoted followings, most likely by virtue of simply appearing on mass media, which implicitly gives them credibility.

But at some point people must question it, no? When Schiff has been regularly promising for 20 years that gold is going to hit $5,000 within a few years, and in that entire time it has only been over $2,000 for like a week, surely the people who listen to him must start having doubts? I suppose I just continue to be amazed at how long someone can peddle complete bullshit before they lose their following.

[Trojane]

Hell, Jim Cramer built an entire career out of yelling aggressively.

Genuinely laughed out loud at that.

They're essentially the same untrustworthy personalities peddling pseudo-nonsense, but for some reason have devoted followings, most likely by virtue of simply appearing on mass media, which implicitly gives them credibility.

But at some point people must question it, no? When Schiff has been regularly promising for 20 years that gold is going to hit $5,000 within a few years, and in that entire time it has only been over $2,000 for like a week, surely the people who listen to him must start having doubts? I suppose I just continue to be amazed at how long someone can peddle complete bullshit before they lose their following.

You know that every man will always believe and defend what he loves and moreover,he's got a huge investment in gold so all he does is to HYPE it on social media which still amount the statue of gold to nothing more than a slight change over the years🙄
It is high time that the administrations of the countries economy all over the world acknowledges that BITCOIN has come to stay and will do alot good to the worlds Economy. A downfall of a great country begins from its economy's fragility
 Trojans💎

[el kaka22]

Peter Schiff has been supporting gold probably even longer than bitcoin has existed, so it is not a shock to anyone that dude will not like bitcoin, it is in his nature because bitcoin is the biggest competition to gold right now. Bitcoin will not replace fiat, but it is definitely replacing gold as we speak. Sure there will be people who will buy gold chains or use gold to make chips and so forth but aside from that when bitcoin reaches to a certain point where it is the main store of value, gold will not be bought to store value anymore and that is a threat to gold that people who are heavily invested into gold like Peter could handle.

Hence they attack bitcoin, but that is a great thing because the longer they talk about bitcoin the more people bitcoin is reaching, they are helping with the marketing, when he said it was bad for the first time price was little, now it is huge, even his supporters are seeing that.

[LUCKMCFLY]

This is very interesting, although I have something very well defined, it is that Schiff will never accept Bitcoin, I believe that for him as for Warren Buffet they will never accept that Bitcoin is the future of the largest finances worldwide, at a later time In the future it will be taken into account that BTC will be treated as a normal currency that will represent a lot of money and that only those who have owned BTC and who still have it will have a more than assured life, because BTC, unlike BTC, is like the new digital gold, and that is very difficult for them to understand. Anyway anything is possible and the world economy is changing and those who do not want to take those changes will have to swear to protect themselves.

[hello_good_sir]

Schiff has absolutely 0 (zero) logic.

He has been a gold bug for decades and got lucky because he called the top of the GFC.

I don't know why that fool still has a following. He clearly has a vested interest in keeping gold and silver in the spotlight because of his own business, SchiffGold. He's like the guy who is selling shovels in a gold rush and telling everyone that there is trillions to be made in the precious metals market when BTC is clearly the future.

[jaysabi]

Hell, Jim Cramer built an entire career out of yelling aggressively.

Genuinely laughed out loud at that.

They're essentially the same untrustworthy personalities peddling pseudo-nonsense, but for some reason have devoted followings, most likely by virtue of simply appearing on mass media, which implicitly gives them credibility.

But at some point people must question it, no? When Schiff has been regularly promising for 20 years that gold is going to hit $5,000 within a few years, and in that entire time it has only been over $2,000 for like a week, surely the people who listen to him must start having doubts? I suppose I just continue to be amazed at how long someone can peddle complete bullshit before they lose their following.

I think indoctrination is a very difficult thing to overcome.  These followers have completely bought into a "certain future outcome."  In the case of Schiff, it's that the dollar is eventually going to fail and so even if you're wrong on the timing, it's just the timing that's wrong, not the premise.  So if you believe the dollar is ultimately doomed, Schiff has investment advice to sell you on how to position your investments.  But honestly, you get a lot of the same thing in the crypto community.  A lot of maximalists have also bought into the premise that the dollar is ultimately going to fail and do it unquestioningly, they just believe in a different remedy (bitcoin as the savior instead of gold).  But I see no difference in the extreme thought patterns between the two sides.  It won't matter how long the dollar endures, to the true believers the failure of the dollar is always imminent and never questioned.