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Author Topic: Coming Soon: The Casascius 1000 BTC FINE GOLD COIN  (Read 4254 times)
casascius
Mike Caldwell
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The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)


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December 06, 2011, 10:51:52 PM
 #21

Do you see what I'm getting at? The entire value of these things (minus the raw brass, silver, or gold) is dependent on 1) Mike being honest, and 2) you never being able to verify if mike was honest with the coin you're holding. He sells an object that requires you to risk throwing away everything you paid for it just to be certain you can trust him.

If you go to the grocery store and buy yourself ham for dinner, you are staking your entire life on 1) the integrity of the store, as well as every employee they hired off the street and every unknown person in their supply chain, that they didn't taint it with something that will kill you, and 2) you never being able to verify that the meal you bought was tainted, without eating it and risking your life, or else sending it to a lab to ensure it's truly poison free (which is not only expensive, but the meal will be spoiled and unusable as dinner by the time the lab is done with it).  So, in practice, going to the grocery store and buying dinner requires that you risk ending your entire life just for convenience of having someone else raise and prepare an animal for you to eat for dinner.

Of course, practically speaking, the store has an incentive not to sell you food that will kill you, it's bad for their business.  And they would also likely be liable for your injury or death.  Every city in the USA is plastered with billboards for lawyers who would love to get in on the action if it ever happened.  Those two controls are good enough that you still patronize the grocery store.

I'm not a whole lot different.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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BitMagic
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December 06, 2011, 11:34:34 PM
 #22

Only problem is his honesty has been verified by the random sampling of physical bitcoins that have been opened and redeemed by presumably independent persons.

1 BTC coins 46/3836 = 1%
10 BTC coins 0/11 = 0%
25 BTC coins 6/249 = 2%
100 BTC coins 12/34 35%

I think we can be fairly certain that all coins that have been sold have been loaded with the BTC. If he were to load all BTC as expected, but keep a copy of the private key *that* is where a problem might be.

We can be fairly certain of nothing, considering 1) you have no idea who opened those coins, and 2) no smart thief would load none. I'd be happy to skim 1 of every 100 1BTC coins sold, for an extra $383 dollars.

Of course, practically speaking, the store has an incentive not to sell you food that will kill you, it's bad for their business.  And they would also likely be liable for your injury or death.  Every city in the USA is plastered with billboards for lawyers who would love to get in on the action if it ever happened.  Those two reasons are good enough that you still patronize the grocery store.

I'm not a whole lot different.

Yes, yes. There's all kinds of legal avenues we can take advantage of to get back our stolen BTCs from you.  Roll Eyes The fact is, anyone stupid enough to trust you like they trust their grocery store probably deserves to lose everything.

Please give me your money, because I am a shameless libertarian elite who deserves your money more than you do: 9Hkao8U82WWDp6SQGn4k7ad9gT1LWeL5s3
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Mike Caldwell
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The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)


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December 07, 2011, 12:04:30 AM
 #23

We can be fairly certain of nothing, considering 1) you have no idea who opened those coins, and 2) no smart thief would load none. I'd be happy to skim 1 of every 100 1BTC coins sold, for an extra $383 dollars.

In that case, why don't I just raise my price 1%?  The market will already clearly bear it.

Yes, yes. There's all kinds of legal avenues we can take advantage of to get back our stolen BTCs from you.  Roll Eyes The fact is, anyone stupid enough to trust you like they trust their grocery store probably deserves to lose everything.

There actually are legal avenues, no different than if I claimed to sell designer handbags but shipped knockoffs.  Now, it would actually be a joke - as you suggest - if I owned no significant assets to go after, but that's not the case here.  If a lot of people believed I were stealing their coins, they would probably have no problem finding a lawyer to pursue the case on contingency.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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Bitcoin!


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December 07, 2011, 04:39:07 AM
 #24

BitMagic, healthy skepticism is good, but I think you're going to a rather unwarranted extreme.

BTC: 1CDCLDBHbAzHyYUkk1wYHPYmrtDZNhk8zf
LTC: LMS7SqZJnqzxo76iDSEua33WCyYZdjaQoE
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December 07, 2011, 07:05:34 AM
 #25

BitMagic, healthy skepticism is good, but I think you're going to a rather unwarranted extreme.

I'm not claiming he's a thief, I'm claiming that all else being equal, for a "currency" rife with successful theatre purchases, automatic card reading devices, very reliable forks, secure wallet services, perfectly competitive small cap exchanges, honest mortgage brokers...ah fuck it.


Please give me your money, because I am a shameless libertarian elite who deserves your money more than you do: 9Hkao8U82WWDp6SQGn4k7ad9gT1LWeL5s3
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bitcoin hundred-aire


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December 07, 2011, 07:07:50 PM
 #26

If he provides the two-key option, then he is definitely trustable...

I'm probably saying something that everyone here already knows, but:
The two-key coin requires both the private key on the hologram and your secret key to redeem it.  This means that
1. Since the address of the coin is easily gotten from your two public keys, you can verify casascius sent coins there.
2. He has no incentive at all to put an incorrect private key onto the coin.
3. Thus, you and only you can redeem the coin.

(BFL)^2 < 0
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December 07, 2011, 09:43:54 PM
 #27

Take it or leave it ! Mike does a great job with his coins. I trust him, if you don't, just stay away from his products.

I have my coins and i'm very happy  Cheesy Grin

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All paid signature campaigns should be banned.


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December 08, 2011, 03:39:00 AM
 #28

BitMagic,

I am curious about something.  In your signature you have 9Hkao8U82WWDp6SQGn4k7ad9gT1LWeL5s3

I do not recognize this as a valid Bitcoin address.  Is it a joke or is it a type of address that I am not familiar with?

Burt

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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December 08, 2011, 02:06:19 PM
 #29

Hey casascius,

30mm, will this be a 1/2 troy ounce coin?

casascius
Mike Caldwell
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The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)


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December 08, 2011, 03:34:13 PM
 #30

It will be a full ounce.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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December 08, 2011, 03:37:47 PM
 #31

BitMagic,

I am curious about something.  In your signature you have 9Hkao8U82WWDp6SQGn4k7ad9gT1LWeL5s3

I do not recognize this as a valid Bitcoin address.  Is it a joke or is it a type of address that I am not familiar with?

Burt
I think your sarcasm detector is malfunctioning, sir.
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December 08, 2011, 03:47:13 PM
 #32

I got the sarcasm of the statement but I was wondering why not put a valid BTC address there just in case someone agreeded with the statement.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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December 08, 2011, 04:50:31 PM
 #33

If he provides the two-key option, then he is definitely trustable...

I'm probably saying something that everyone here already knows, but:
The two-key coin requires both the private key on the hologram and your secret key to redeem it.  This means that
1. Since the address of the coin is easily gotten from your two public keys, you can verify casascius sent coins there.
2. He has no incentive at all to put an incorrect private key onto the coin.
3. Thus, you and only you can redeem the coin.

The point is that he holds all the information to extract the underlying BTC at any point, not that it's an incorrect private key. I.e. there certainly are BTC on the coin. A week later, a month, etc, there aren't. Random sample, draw from an address that's on an old coin, easy peasy.

Again, I'm not saying he's doing this. Only that this particular business model is the perfect scam as soon as he gets greedy enough. Maybe he isn't this way, but given the general history of "bitcoin entrepreneurs", I don't know why you'd take the risk.

I got the sarcasm of the statement but I was wondering why not put a valid BTC address there just in case someone agreeded with the statement.

Because it gives me an opportunity every time to say this: you are a sad, sad group of people begging for change on the internet corner, and it sickens me to the point where I wouldn't put a public BTC address up if you paid me.

Please give me your money, because I am a shameless libertarian elite who deserves your money more than you do: 9Hkao8U82WWDp6SQGn4k7ad9gT1LWeL5s3
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Mike Caldwell
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December 08, 2011, 06:25:42 PM
 #34

Again, I'm not saying he's doing this. Only that this particular business model is the perfect scam as soon as he gets greedy enough. Maybe he isn't this way, but given the general history of "bitcoin entrepreneurs", I don't know why you'd take the risk.

...and then I get sued and held liable for doing so.  A significant difference from the bitcoin scammers of the past is that I am not anonymous.  There are more incentives to not scam than just good intentions.

I got the sarcasm of the statement but I was wondering why not put a valid BTC address there just in case someone agreeded with the statement.

Because it gives me an opportunity every time to say this: you are a sad, sad group of people begging for change on the internet corner, and it sickens me to the point where I wouldn't put a public BTC address up if you paid me.

We are begging for change!  You asked for change, we gave you coins.  (This message is encoded on the back of my 25 BTC piece).

Oh, sorry, wrong change.

Well, I agree with the sentiment that just because one could put up a "donation" address doesn't mean one should.  I never donate to donation addresses, except on a few rare occasions where I have donated sizeable amounts and paid out bounties for creating code that I thought was a substantial contribution to the bitcoin community, large enough to well overqualify as "tips".  But just by putting up an invalid bitcoin address, I don't think anyone gets your intended humor.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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December 08, 2011, 10:15:38 PM
 #35

If he provides the two-key option, then he is definitely trustable...

I'm probably saying something that everyone here already knows, but:
The two-key coin requires both the private key on the hologram and your secret key to redeem it.  This means that
1. Since the address of the coin is easily gotten from your two public keys, you can verify casascius sent coins there.
2. He has no incentive at all to put an incorrect private key onto the coin.
3. Thus, you and only you can redeem the coin.

This quite sets them apart from "regular old 1 BTC casascious" coins, which can actually be given to someone.

This thing is bound to an address owner. I see, much better for storing wealth, casascius can't steel the bitcoins, neither can anybody else getting his hands on the physical product.

Pretty save against theft, I'd say. Cool, that's what was missing so far.

Thanks for mentioning this, because I really didn't catch it before Wink

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
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December 09, 2011, 12:34:17 AM
 #36

Looks awesome!

...watching....

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More about me: http://CharlieShrem.com
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firstbits.com/1ce5j


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December 21, 2011, 09:14:28 AM
 #37

In case you haven't seen this new thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54845.0

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December 26, 2011, 09:42:03 PM
 #38

photo or link to for pic of the 1 Oz gold 1,000 Btc coin when it appears please

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December 26, 2011, 09:43:28 PM
 #39

photo or link to for pic of the 1 Oz gold 1,000 Btc coin when it appears please

Did you see my post above?

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Charlie 'Van Bitcoin' Shrem


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December 26, 2011, 10:00:59 PM
 #40

photo or link to for pic of the 1 Oz gold 1,000 Btc coin when it appears please

Did you see my post above?

lol I dont think he bothered looking up

photo or link to for pic of the 1 Oz gold 1,000 Btc coin when it appears please

In case you haven't seen this new thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54845.0

Bitcoin pioneer. An apostle of Satoshi Nakamoto. A crusader for a new, better, tech-driven society. A dreamer.

More about me: http://CharlieShrem.com
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