China cracking down innovation

[paxmao]

We have know that China has many times expressed and effectively carried out all shorts of moves against bitcoin, but recently they have made very serious moves that not only send a message for the future but also had very real implications for stock owners.

- Serious warnings to Ali Baba owner.
- A "voluntary" donation from Tencent to the "common good of Chinese people".
- A clear warning against any entrepreneur that has "too much public success".

Could this be dampening or even killing the expected growth of the Chinese economy? Are they, after all, still communist enough?

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[Hydrogen]

Communists in china are simply following the same gameplan communists have always followed over the last century. The issue has always been the general public being too afraid to educate themselves, or follow the news closely enough to know what the gameplan is. Many believe they're better off not knowing, which makes it impossible for them to learn or know anything.

I think most know the state in china has always owned and controlled everything in the country. Pretenses of "embracing capitalism" have always remained a thin veneer and pandering to those who do not know better. Capitalist CEOs in china like Jack Ma have always been forced to step down. To be replaced by communist party loyalists. Often with disastrous results as the replacements were inadequate to the task set before them. There is a question of whether failure in chinese industry are attributable to incompetence or malice.

- A clear warning against any entrepreneur that has "too much public success".

AFAIK communism has always avoided giving credit to inventors like Mikhail Kalashnikov (inventor of the AK-47). They've typically followed the same patterns of allowing no heros or credit to be given to any aside from the ruling government/party. The government is the only party that is allowed to receive credit for success.

[fiulpro]

We have know that China has many times expressed and effectively carried out all shorts of moves against bitcoin, but recently they have made very serious moves that not only send a message for the future but also had very real implications for stock owners.

- Serious warnings to Ali Baba owner.
- A "voluntary" donation from Tencent to the "common good of Chinese people".
- A clear warning against any entrepreneur that has "too much public success".

Could this be dampening or even killing the expected growth of the Chinese economy? Are they, after all, still communist enough?

Well it would not kill the growth suddenly for sure but you have to understand for a fact that the Chinese government is too strict with the people, to the point where they work like robots and then at the end of the day they are going to bring down the innovation and ideas to *Zero*.

-The whole point of growth of a nation is people effectively working on their ideas and skills and using it to make their country stronger in every sector, but when freedom of thought is taken away what are they gonna be left with ?

I do think that this could work, since they are controlling them like robots but there will be a stopping point where are the end they would have a lot of probelms and at the same time the government would reach a dead end, the community with starve mentally for sure.

Learning, Innovation, Ideas, they all are a big part of the country and if this does not go well then I do think their economy will have a highest point and reach the dead end.

[Kong Hey Pakboy]

They're not killing the economy, it's a matter of keeping this companies under their heels so their influence won't be a problem for the party, I guess you could say that what they're doing with this companies is a matter of politics rather than economics.

[Argoo]

China's economy will not shrink or even kill because china is one of the most developed countries in the world and they are far ahead in terms of economy. Despite political intervention the chinese people do not want political change it is not about military power it is about the economy according to the latest survey report of the international monetary fund china is now the number one country in the world in terms of economic power. As an economic superpower china's transition has caused a stir around the world today china is a model of prosperity and development for the backward countries.

It can hardly be said that the Chinese authorities suppress innovation in their country. Quite the opposite: in China, useful innovations are tracked quite clearly and immediately implements them into practical life. Thanks to this, their economies are developing very quickly. We can see this in the example of the fact that the largest number of patents for inventions using blockchain have been issued there. Yes, they do not really welcome the spread of cryptocurrency and are now taking tougher measures against it before the release of their digitized yuan, so that it is more comfortable to spread in the country. Well, China has always chosen its own way of developing its economy.

[Kakmakr]

I think the Chinese government has no problem with the big companies making a lot of money, but the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) just fired a shot over the head of Alibaba to remind them that they are still a Socialist system and they have to share some of their wealth. 

The bigger picture is this... Make a lot of Money, so that you can share a lot more to the socialist system. (Donations / Charity / Bribes etc... etc.)     ( efficiency, equity, economic freedom, full employment, economic growth, security, and stability ) 

[paxmao]

China's economy will not shrink or even kill because china is one of the most developed countries in the world and they are far ahead in terms of economy. Despite political intervention the chinese people do not want political change it is not about military power it is about the economy according to the latest survey report of the international monetary fund china is now the number one country in the world in terms of economic power. As an economic superpower china's transition has caused a stir around the world today china is a model of prosperity and development for the backward countries.

Hi my friend, I can see you are working very hard. Do you have openings in your troll farm? I would be interesting in a role as Senior Nationalist Head of Empty-heads.

Nobody is saying that China is not growing or that China is not a developed country - well, I am actually going to say that is half-developed, since only the coastal regions do well - what I am saying is that China is clamping obviously in one of the main factors of growth for any nation: individual initiative and innovation. On top of that, by directly requesting "donations" from listed companies they have stolen from the shareholders, which casts grim shadows about raising money in the future.

BTW, if you want to defend China you better start having some arguments. People on this forum are particularly tired of misinformation, fundamentalists of all shorts and manipulation. You need to do wayyyy better.

I think the Chinese government has no problem with the big companies making a lot of money, but the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) just fired a shot over the head of Alibaba to remind them that they are still a Socialist system and they have to share some of their wealth.  

The bigger picture is this... Make a lot of Money, so that you can share a lot more to the socialist system. (Donations / Charity / Bribes etc... etc.)     ( efficiency, equity, economic freedom, full employment, economic growth, security, and stability )  

15 Billion from a listed company does not look like shooting over the head, does it? The problem is that a listed company does not belong to the CCP, but to the shareholders and something like this is plain robbery. This does have consequences on the future ability of Chinese companies to raise capital and that is directly linked to their ability to grow in the future.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-19/tencent-doubles-social-aid-to-15-billion-as-scrutiny-grows

[bekti3]

In my opinion, this is actually more of a party problem, which will definitely be a problem if this company gets ahead and is more advanced than their party.
so that before the company does anything further they will of course reduce it so that it will not become a very big problem in their party.
this is more about political matters than the economy, although indeed in the economic sector there will be an impact, but politics is much thicker here.

[Haunebu]

This is nothing new. They have been cracking down on different forms of innovation for sometime now and I don't think this will change at any point in the future. Political power matters more than innovation in their country.

You forgot to mention the fact that they are trying to change the heavenly status of some celebrities too. These moves have both good and bad consequences.

[Kittygalore]

This is nothing new. They have been cracking down on different forms of innovation for sometime now and I don't think this will change at any point in the future. Political power matters more than innovation in their country.

You forgot to mention the fact that they are trying to change the heavenly status of some celebrities too. These moves have both good and bad consequences.

They don't crack down on innovation per se, they're cracking on stuff that threatens their political party, if they were cracking down on innovations then we won't probably see a lot of mega cities in China being built. And they wouldn't have the Three Gorges Dam if they're cracking down on innovation, they crack down on those that criticize them, that's why some billionaires have to be careful with what they're saying because they risk being captured and secretly neutralized.

[tyz]

Could this be dampening or even killing the expected growth of the Chinese economy? Are they, after all, still communist enough?

What many in the Western world often do not know is that there used to be many political currents in the Chinese Communist Party (10-20 years back). One of the stronger currents was the rather "economic liberal" one, as far as one can say that about communists. The current was instrumental in China adopting many elements of capitalism in the late 1990s, which contributed to this enormous prospering development of the Chinese economy. But, in recent years, and especially with the election of Xi Jinping, another current has taken power, namely the old communist one, to which Jinping also belongs. Therefore, he has also had himself appointed as chairman for life, which would have been unthinkable just a few years ago, and it can be seen that this current is taking back more and more elements of the capitalist elements adopted in the late 1990s. How far these will go is difficult to say, but one sees now clearly what was already years in planning.

[NeuroticFish]

Could this be dampening or even killing the expected growth of the Chinese economy? Are they, after all, still communist enough?

Nah, it's just about showing who's the real boss there. It's just about getting everybody - no matter how rich and successful - back in line.
I'm a bit worried though for Jack Ma's... general health... It's not the first warning he gets and they've shown in the past that they're pretty much serious.

[CaptainCrapper]

We have know that China has many times expressed and effectively carried out all shorts of moves against bitcoin, but recently they have made very serious moves that not only send a message for the future but also had very real implications for stock owners.

- Serious warnings to Ali Baba owner.
- A "voluntary" donation from Tencent to the "common good of Chinese people".
- A clear warning against any entrepreneur that has "too much public success".

Could this be dampening or even killing the expected growth of the Chinese economy? Are they, after all, still communist enough?

This is very bad news for all of us. They are trying to crack after someday why they are doing this I am not clear but I think they are trying to make a game hare all of the ordinary investors losing their fund for poor knowledge. So we have to becareful.

[stompix]

Are they, after all, still communist enough?

They are not really that communist, for them allowing private businesses to operate and have that much success is clearly a sign of not wanting to go the path of a planned economy. Exercising control on the market is not really a communist thing, it happens to certain degrees in all economies, being them open free market or more controlled ones.

As for innovation, they are again not really hindering it, rather than telling you what pie you are allowed to bake they are asking for a bigger share of it and ask you not to boost your success all over. So, trying to find a compromise as they have already done for 3 decades now, so I'm not surprised at all nor do I think we will see any major impact. One more thing, all those companies that are right now "forced' to denote things have done so well because they were helped by the CCP, if they were left alone on themselves you wouldn't have heard of them by now.

Also, it's not that China does all this control things alone, people focus on them because they are still led by a  communist party but in reality, a lot of the Asian countries have gone through this model, most ignore the fact that nearly the same model of "guided capitalism" led to South Korea success stories, the Chaebol model.

[Haunebu]

They don't crack down on innovation per se, they're cracking on stuff that threatens their political party, if they were cracking down on innovations then we won't probably see a lot of mega cities in China being built. And they wouldn't have the Three Gorges Dam if they're cracking down on innovation, they crack down on those that criticize them, that's why some billionaires have to be careful with what they're saying because they risk being captured and secretly neutralized.

I disagree. They do crackdown on innovations because some of the stuff that threaten their party as you mentioned are innovations themselves. Below article basically proves my point.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pymnts.com/news/international/2021/china-big-tech-crackdown-chill-innovation/amp/

However, I do agree with your opinion about Billionaires becoming targets in recent times. The political powers don't want the billionaires to gain more power due to which they are trying to suppress them in this manner.

[Kittygalore]

~

I disagree. They do crackdown on innovations because some of the stuff that threaten their party as you mentioned are innovations themselves. Below article basically proves my point.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pymnts.com/news/international/2021/china-big-tech-crackdown-chill-innovation/amp/

However, I do agree with your opinion about Billionaires becoming targets in recent times. The political powers don't want the billionaires to gain more power due to which they are trying to suppress them in this manner.

Yeah, I can see where I did get it wrong. A lot of progressive/innovative thinking is suppressed like what happened during the Tianamen Square Massacre. There's a video essay about this one about the disappearance of Jack Ma and other Chinese billionaires right after their deemed to be offensive by the government speeches or statements, I just forgot the name of the channel and the title of the video essay in YouTube.

[crwth]

Maybe they are doing that because of the cheapest way to buy so much more than the actual price, and it's not bad for them. Maybe specific groups of people have planned it and are manipulating it to get the best price.

I think the reason why the Chinese have so much influence is because of how many they are. Think about it, almost everyone knows someone who is Chinese, and if they see that person be an influencer or something, they would follow their decision and dump BTC if that's the case here.

Maybe they are so used to it already that they have managed all these years, and it didn't affect their economy with that.

[sunsilk]

Ever since those news came, they're already like that. Censorship, being strict with the people so being strict with successful businesses and as well as emerging technologies.

As they crack and stop those mining operations in some provinces, I think that they're still into it but only minimizing the mining farms that operates. It's just hard to look at what they're up to and which type of common business and technology they're not going to touch but I think almost everything, they're into it.

[amishmanish]

Are they, after all, still communist enough?

They are not really that communist, for them allowing private businesses to operate and have that much success is clearly a sign of not wanting to go the path of a planned economy. Exercising control on the market is not really a communist thing, it happens to certain degrees in all economies, being them open free market or more controlled ones.

As for innovation, they are again not really hindering it, rather than telling you what pie you are allowed to bake they are asking for a bigger share of it and ask you not to boost your success all over. So, trying to find a compromise as they have already done for 3 decades now, so I'm not surprised at all nor do I think we will see any major impact. One more thing, all those companies that are right now "forced' to denote things have done so well because they were helped by the CCP, if they were left alone on themselves you wouldn't have heard of them by now.

Also, it's not that China does all this control things alone, people focus on them because they are still led by a  communist party but in reality, a lot of the Asian countries have gone through this model, most ignore the fact that nearly the same model of "guided capitalism" led to South Korea success stories, the Chaebol model.

This brings in the much needed moderation on such a thread. The Chinese have been able to expertly channel a lot of manpower and public energy towards the target of upliftment and national pride. A lot of it has been driven by ultra-nationalism and carefully crafted messages through public outlets, while blocking most of what the rest of the world takes as free access to information.

It looks like a very patriachal, disciplined sort of system where people are doing things and living their lives a certain way, not because they love it, but because the party says that its best for them and for the people. For example, making billionaire organization trim down by donating or committing to social welfare will affect all of those who have worked hard to reach at that level. Whether they will continue to love doing this cannot be predicted. Would another "Jack Ma" work his ass off to raise a corporation like Alibaba? This is basically forced philanthrophy. I don't think that money is what matters here. It is about the perception that no private entity should become too big. The West has had this argument with the negative feelings about corporations that become "too big to fail" and are regularly bailed out.

So, we can never know what the stakeholders and owners in those corporations actually feel, but this isn't something completely radical.

[zanezane]

They're definitely cracking down but much more subtle so we don't know it or we second guess what they're doing. What they're doing is to care for their interests, we may see it as selfish but they think ahead with those crackdowns and they want to keep the party alive as much as possible.