BITCOIN WALLET

[t3xoff]

Can you guys tell which wallet is safest according to your experience.

[1713557098]

1713557098

[1713557098]

1713557098

[1713557098]

1713557098

[1713557098]

1713557098

[pooya87]

Any wallet software that is 100% open source, old (meaning wasn't created a week ago!), is reviewed, preferably has reproducible builds (for those who can't or don't want to compile the source) and is created by competent developers.
I can only recommend two even though there are more: bitcoin core and Electrum.

[Pmalek]

You didn't specify what device or operating system you use. There are desktop and mobile wallets. Mobile wallets are further divided into those created for Android or iOS devices. Unfortunately, you will sometimes see that a software wallet works for Android, but doesn't work on iOS phones. You have to take such things into account as well.

The below source hasn't been updated for a year, but it will still give you plenty of information about what is available:
[General] Bitcoin Wallets - Which, what, why?

[Lucius]

Can you guys tell which wallet is safest according to your experience.

This question is asked by a person who found "a critical security flaw in bitcoin protocol that would give me infinity private keys and all that private keys work." If you are already so skilled that you managed to dismantle the bitcoin protocol, I guess you should answer your own question.

Given that you’ve found a way to hack the entire network, does it make sense to ask which is the safest Bitcoin wallet?

[n0nce]

I would argue the safest wallet would be a paper wallet created by hand, by tossing a coin 256 times.

That's going to be the binary encoding of your very secure private key. The issue will then just be how to calculate an address from it, where you can receive funds.

A solution to this is presented by the https://seedsigner.com/ device, which is fully open source hardware and software, and totally air gapped. You can enter the private key and it calculates a public key for you and it can even sign a transaction to spend those funds.
After it's powered off, the key is lost since it's just stored in RAM and you will have to import it again the next time.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I would argue the safest wallet would be a paper wallet created by hand, by tossing a coin 256 times.

You don't have to do it 256 times, unless you really need one private key. Tossing it 128 times is enough.

The safest wallet option, hmm. I mean, you ensure that there's nothing malicious in your RNG, but you aren't fully ensuring the randomness. For example, you should toss it firstly x times and see if on average x/2 times it was heads. Otherwise, your generation may not be random and hence, guessing your entropy may be far easier.

There's a lot of discussion about this topic in the link above.

[o_e_l_e_o]

A solution to this is presented by the https://seedsigner.com/ device, which is fully open source hardware and software, and totally air gapped. You can enter the private key and it calculates a public key for you and it can even sign a transaction to spend those funds.

That's one option, sure. An easier option without having to buy a specific device will to be use a permanently airgapped computer running a clean install of an open source reputable Linux distro of your choice with full disk encryption. Lots of people would recommend Tails for such a purpose, with handily comes bundled with Electrum. If you only want to store your wallet on paper after you have generated an address on Tails, then you can just shut it down once you've backed up your seed phrase on paper. If you want to continue to access your wallet on Tails to use as a cold wallet, then you'll need to enable persistent storage.

[n0nce]

A solution to this is presented by the https://seedsigner.com/ device, which is fully open source hardware and software, and totally air gapped. You can enter the private key and it calculates a public key for you and it can even sign a transaction to spend those funds.

That's one option, sure. An easier option without having to buy a specific device will to be use a permanently airgapped computer running a clean install of an open source reputable Linux distro of your choice with full disk encryption. Lots of people would recommend Tails for such a purpose, with handily comes bundled with Electrum. If you only want to store your wallet on paper after you have generated an address on Tails, then you can just shut it down once you've backed up your seed phrase on paper. If you want to continue to access your wallet on Tails to use as a cold wallet, then you'll need to enable persistent storage.

Well, it's basically the same thing. This is just an airgapped Raspberry Pi (regular Linux machine, as you recommend) with a screen and some buttons. I'd argue many people don't have a spare computer to use in an airgapped fashion, but if you have one, you can save the around 50 bucks that a SeedSigner costs.

[NeuroticFish]

according to your experience.

My experience may be way different than yours. For me, a Tails USB (or other Linux live USB) with Electrum on it already does the job.
So the question is wrong and incomplete, since the relevant part is your experience: the experience with crypto and the experience with computers.
For newbies I always recommend to look for one of the established hardware wallets that work with Electrum (and learn how to safely install Electrum too); and yes, basically use with Electrum.

[mocacinno]

Nobody will be able to give you a complete answer, because everybody has their own background, their own OPSEC, their own hardware requirements, their own preference... Even between longtime members, there is some discussion as to which method, which brand, which procedure is the best. This being said, i'd basically say that if you stick to one of these three, you should be ok in the "safest" department:

• A properly airgapped setup with either electrum or bitcoin core
• A paper wallet generated in a secure way
• A well-known hardware wallet purchased directly from the source, i'd recommend either ledger or trezor brands

Do realise that either of these options have their own OPSEC requirements... If you buy a hardware wallet from an untrusted source, you're probably worse off than if you'd use a desktop wallet... If you generate a paper wallet the wrong way, you're unsecure... Even airgapped setups can be setup in the wrong way if you really try.

My personal preference would be a completely offline hardened CentOS (with an encrypted partition containing the folder that holds my wallet.dat) with the latest version of core producing an encrypted non-HD wallet that has been backupped on an USB stick that is clearly marked in a way that makes is perfectly clear it should never be inserted into any other (online) PC and that's kept in a bankvault. Truth be told, such a setup is to much work for me, so i just bought a couple of hardware wallets instead  

[Husires]

Can you guys tell which wallet is safest according to your experience.

"safest" is a relative term, according to your definition, extent of your experience in programming, how to protect your devices physically/software.


I can make the following suggestions:

• Zero programming experience and willing to spend a little money: Hardware wallets are the right choice as they provide a safe environment for those who do not have programming experience with their support for many currencies.
• Some software experience and you don't want to buy hardware wallets: choose an open source wallet, well reviewed with the purchase of a new device that is airgapped.
• Good software experience: You can secure your currencies with your options, and it will not cost you any extra money.

Therefore, the first and second options are ideal.

[Pmalek]

Some software experience and you don't want to buy hardware wallets: choose an open source wallet, well reviewed with the purchase of a new device that is airgapped.

Considering how much information is available on the topic of creating an airgapped setup, both on Bitcointalk and outside of it, you really don't need any particular knowledge to be able to follow a step-by-step guide. Just read the recommendations and apply them. The biggest problem isn't in creating an airgapped system. The biggest problem is that most people don't have spare computers or laptops laying around and not being used that they can use exclusively for their cold storage. Or they are not willing to invest in one only for that purpose.   

[mocacinno]

--snip--
The biggest problem is that most people don't have spare computers or laptops laying around and not being used that they can use exclusively for their cold storage. Or they are not willing to invest in one only for that purpose.  

This is indeed an excuse i've heared numerous times from newer members: a hardware wallet is expensive (eventough it costs less than $100), or an old pc to setup an airgapped setup is expensive (eventough it costs less than $300)... But 3 months later they come in to complain about the fact they've lost the equivalent of $100.000 they had in their exchange "wallet" due to a hack or phishing or an exit scam.

It ridiculous to see how people don't want to spend $100 to keep $100.000 safe... But it is indeed a very, very, very common excuse i've read many, many times from many, many people....

[o_e_l_e_o]

you really don't need any particular knowledge to be able to follow a step-by-step guide.

I think you do, or at least, you do if you want to do it properly.

Most people would know how to turn off their WiFi or put their laptop in to airplane mode. However, WiFi cards can still leak some data even when turned off by the OS, and there is always the chance that you (or something in your OS) turns it back on by mistake. So to be sure, you should remove your WiFi card. How many people would be able to open their laptop and even identify the WiFi card, let alone safely remove it, especially if it is built in to the motherboard? Having a guide which says "Remove your WiFi card" is fine, but if someone has never before opened up a computer to look inside (which is the majority of the population) then that isn't really helpful for them. The same goes for other steps, such as installing Linux. A lot of people have never heard of Linux or even really know what an operating system is.

Step by step instructions are rarely detailed enough for the complete newbie, and if there is the slightest error or issue, then they are completely stuck. You don't need any programming knowledge as suggested above, but you do need a certain level of familiarity with computers and hardware.

[Pmalek]

But 3 months later they come in to complain about the fact they've lost the equivalent of $100.000 they had in their exchange "wallet" due to a hack or phishing or an exit scam.

I understand what you are saying and I agree. I am just saying how it is. People start thinking about their security only after they were the victims of a hack/scam. We start to think and cheat like that from early age. I am not going to do my homework because there are 30 other pupils in my class. What are the chances the teacher will check if I did mine? And if you get a bad grade, you are angry at yourself for spending 30 minutes and doing the homework in the first place. You can apply the same excuses to matters of health, your own safety, etc.

<Snip>

Fair points, but if you don't know how a WIFI card looks like, Google it or watch a YouTube video of how to disconnect it. You can find YouTube videos on how to dismantle almost any model of popular laptops, clean them, and put them back together.

Working with Linux is a different kind of problem. That's not something a quick guide can teach you. But if you absolutely don't want to do that, you can stick with Windows because your system will be offline anyways. Linux is recommended, but it's not a must. 

[o_e_l_e_o]

Linux is recommended, but it's not a must. 

Sure, but then we start getting in to gray areas. Linux is recommended, but Windows will do. Removing connectivity hardware is recommended, but turning it off will do. Formatting the hard drive first is recommended, but not doing it will be OK since you will be offline anyway. Encrypting your wallet is recommended, but no one will have access to it anyway so it's not necessary. And so on. Soon enough, we are left with someone just turning off their WiFi and thinking they have a safe airgapped wallet.

The problem with airgapped wallets is exactly this - you can seriously mess up if you cut corners or don't really understand what you are doing. This is much harder to do with a hardware wallet. I would say if you can't commit (or don't have the knowledge) to set up an airgapped wallet properly, then you would be safer using a hardware wallet instead of settling for a sub-optimal airgapped set up.

[Lucius]

It ridiculous to see how people don't want to spend $100 to keep $100.000 safe... But it is indeed a very, very, very common excuse i've read many, many times from many, many people....

It has always been strange to me, especially considering that these same people are willing to pay much higher amounts when it comes to other devices such as smartphones, laptops or, say, the increasingly popular electric scooters that cost an average of around EUR 300. Someone might say that the biggest problem is that there are free solutions (desktop&mobile wallets), and I agree that people won't invest even $50 if they can get something for free - but ignorance also plays a big role here, because they don't understand the basic differences and potential risks arising from free solutions.

I made a decision a long time ago, I will not help anyone to invest in crypto if that person does not understand some basic things before, and if they will keep their coins online or in a mobile/desktop wallet on devices they use every day for various activities. Then it's just a question of when something bad will happen, and then it's usually someone else's fault that it happened.

[Pmalek]

Sure, but then we start getting in to gray areas...

I would still argue that from everything you mentioned, using Windows is the only acceptable thing if someone has no knowledge of Linux distros. And in most cases, the average Joe won't have any. Everything else you said, is not recommended. 

I would say if you can't commit (or don't have the knowledge) to set up an airgapped wallet properly, then you would be safer using a hardware wallet instead of settling for a sub-optimal airgapped set up.

That's why the most common answer to the question what type of wallet should I use is buy a hardware wallet.

I made a decision a long time ago, I will not help anyone to invest in crypto if that person does not understand some basic things before, and if they will keep their coins online or in a mobile/desktop wallet on devices they use every day for various activities. Then it's just a question of when something bad will happen, and then it's usually someone else's fault that it happened.

When and if something happens is not a concern of yours. The only problem is if it's a close friend or relative and you wouldn't want them to get hurt or scammed. Even then, I would seriously advice them to reconsider what they are doing and explain what can happen to hot wallets.   

[o_e_l_e_o]

I would still argue that from everything you mentioned, using Windows is the only acceptable thing if someone has no knowledge of Linux distros. And in most cases, the average Joe won't have any. Everything else you said, is not recommended.

But I, on the other hand, would argue that using Windows is absolutely not acceptable, that Windows is insecure, that Windows is spyware, that Windows has enormous amounts of unnecessary and non-removable bloatware filled with God-knows-what code, and so on. To me, none of the things I mentioned are acceptable. To you, using Windows is acceptable. To someone else, turning off rather than removing connectivity hardware might be acceptable. And so enters the gray area of what constitutes an airgapped wallet. Either commit to doing it all and doing it properly, or opt for a hardware wallet.

It's like the old saying - Good, Cheap, Fast, pick two. In this case we would replace fast with easy. Hardware wallets are good and easy, but not cheap. Airgapped cold storage (provided you have a spare device you can use) are good and cheap, but not easy. Mobile wallets, web wallets, etc. are cheap and easy, but are not good.

[Lucius]

When and if something happens is not a concern of yours.    

I’m talking from personal experience where someone was very irresponsible and lost a significant amount of coins, and then I was the one who was most responsible for it - because I made someone deal with it at all - it’s that classic accusation “that you didn’t mention Bitcoin, I wouldn't lose money". I paid a loss out of my own pocket for someone not to blame me for something my whole life, but this is the last time I will allow myself something like that.

I will not exaggerate if I say that from my personal experience at least 90% of people are not ready to be their own bank, and anyway they are only interested in how to profit, preferably in a very short time.