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Author Topic: Which Algorithm will still be Surviving, Used & Secure in 25 Years time?  (Read 152 times)
very_452001
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September 14, 2021, 03:22:05 PM
Last edit: September 14, 2021, 11:43:18 PM by very_452001
Merited by DdmrDdmr (4)
 #1

Pow:

- CryptoNight
- Equihash
- NeoScrypt
- Quark
- Scrypt
- SHA-256
- X11
- X13

PoS:

- DPoS
- Hybrid - PoW & PoS


I understand Bitcoin is PoW and Ethereum 2.0 is PoS which are the most popular ones today.

If in future down the line PoS becomes outdated or unsecure for Eth 2.0 then obviously Eth will evolve to Eth 3.0 right?

Also note Quantum Computers in 25 years time.

Lastly which ones from the list above are the ones to avoid today never mind considering them in 25 years time?

Finally if all above will face there certain obsolete death for a obvious reason that is tech always evolves then if there is a new future unreleased Algorithm that makes all from above list look outdated and unsecure then can the blockchains today hard fork or upgrade to that future algorithm?
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September 14, 2021, 04:52:22 PM
 #2

Think about the state of the world 25 years ago, year 1996. Internet was in very early days, it was too expensive for most people and insanely slow. There were no big services like Youtube or Facebook that everyone used. There was nothing even close to smartphones. Could people of those times predict were will we be now? I'm sure no. Their answers would either underestimate the technology or over estimate it (remember how Back to the Future portrayed flying cars in 2020s?).

So what's the point about speculating about the future if our predictions have no chance of being accurate. Things change and it's important to react to changes as they happen, not try to plan for decades ahead.

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September 14, 2021, 05:07:54 PM
 #3

I understand Bitcoin is PoW

But do you understand that SHA-256, Scrypt, Equihash and many others from that list are PoW algorithms? That list looks like a salad of terms, really...

I expect that in 25 years literally everything will be different. For example, there's a good chance nuclear fusion will be available until then making electricity basically for free and becoming a game changer for PoW. PoS was shown by plenty of coins that can bring the price to nearly zero in a couple of years, hence it has the potential to bring the demise for Ethereum.

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September 14, 2021, 05:36:03 PM
 #4

Think about the state of the world 25 years ago, year 1996.

Five years before sha-2 release and 1 after sha-1?  Cheesy
Some things might be a lot older than they look.

Lastly which ones from the list above are the ones to avoid today never mind considering them in 25 years time?

Pretty simple and it doesn't get easier than this. Are they only used by a shitcoin? Then avoid them from the moment you finish reading this, most of them will not make it for 5 years with normal computers, let alone 25.
Besides, that's not the main threat of quantum computers (if they would ever be able to scale).

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September 14, 2021, 06:08:58 PM
 #5

If we were so good in foreseeing 25 years ahead of us, we would have been a billionaire by now! A lot can change in 25 years. With the introduction of quantum computing, the whole crypto ecosystem may become invalid. Or a lot of new technologies may get invented which may take the crypto game to a whole new level. Who knows!

But I believe those algorithms will survive and thrive who are green in nature besides bitcoin's pow. From that perspective, electricity intensive mining system may become irrelevant totally. But that's just an assumption!

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September 14, 2021, 11:12:09 PM
Last edit: October 24, 2021, 06:09:23 AM by mprep
 #6

I understand Bitcoin is PoW

But do you understand that SHA-256, Scrypt, Equihash and many others from that list are PoW algorithms? That list looks like a salad of terms, really...

I expect that in 25 years literally everything will be different. For example, there's a good chance nuclear fusion will be available until then making electricity basically for free and becoming a game changer for PoW. PoS was shown by plenty of coins that can bring the price to nearly zero in a couple of years, hence it has the potential to bring the demise for Ethereum.


I got the list from coinmarketcap, popular hash algorithms.

So basically everything in that list comes under 2 categories which are PoS & PoW?

The environmentalists will say nuclear risk will destroy the planet so I doubt PoW will flourish under nuclear energy, it has to be renewable energy for PoW to continue otherwise these PoW crypto will keep getting energy wastage FUD.

But PoS crypto projects can say they not wasting energy and saving the planet from global warming which ticks government check boxes for approval.



Think about the state of the world 25 years ago, year 1996.

Five years before sha-2 release and 1 after sha-1?  Cheesy
Some things might be a lot older than they look.

Lastly which ones from the list above are the ones to avoid today never mind considering them in 25 years time?

Pretty simple and it doesn't get easier than this. Are they only used by a shitcoin? Then avoid them from the moment you finish reading this, most of them will not make it for 5 years with normal computers, let alone 25.
Besides, that's not the main threat of quantum computers (if they would ever be able to scale).


Okay which ones from the list most shitcoins use and what reasons shitcoins choose a particular algorithm?

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]
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September 14, 2021, 11:33:55 PM
 #7

So basically everything in that list comes under 2 categories which are PoS & PoW?

Yes it should be a list like this

Pow:
- CryptoNight
- Equihash
- NeoScrypt
- Quark
- Scrypt
- SHA-256
- X11
- X13

POS
- DPoS
- Hybrid - PoW & PoS

Okay which ones from the list most shitcoins use and what reasons shitcoins choose a particular algorithm?
Why not check them here
- https://en.bitcoinwiki.org/wiki/Mining_algorithms


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September 14, 2021, 11:38:11 PM
Last edit: October 24, 2021, 06:09:34 AM by mprep
 #8

If we were so good in foreseeing 25 years ahead of us, we would have been a billionaire by now! A lot can change in 25 years. With the introduction of quantum computing, the whole crypto ecosystem may become invalid. Or a lot of new technologies may get invented which may take the crypto game to a whole new level. Who knows!

But I believe those algorithms will survive and thrive who are green in nature besides bitcoin's pow. From that perspective, electricity intensive mining system may become irrelevant totally. But that's just an assumption!

But is the energy is renewable like solar, heat, wind etc. then what does it matter if electricity intensive is wasting energy?

I can get Solar Panels for nothing and get them to use the sun's energy waste as much of it from the sun, as long its not causing harm to the environment they why anyone would object to this?



So basically everything in that list comes under 2 categories which are PoS & PoW?

Yes it should be a list like this

Pow:
- CryptoNight
- Equihash
- NeoScrypt
- Quark
- Scrypt
- SHA-256
- X11
- X13

POS
- DPoS
- Hybrid - PoW & PoS

Okay which ones from the list most shitcoins use and what reasons shitcoins choose a particular algorithm?
Why not check them here
- https://en.bitcoinwiki.org/wiki/Mining_algorithms



Thanks I update the list above.

Hybrid - PoW & PoS, why this only comes under PoS  Huh

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]
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September 15, 2021, 01:39:07 AM
 #9

i think all algorithm will also adapt in near future not stuck in current algorithm maybe not just eth, other altcoin maybe do hardfrok several times when new attack coming

new algorithm for new coin i think also came to play

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September 15, 2021, 07:29:30 AM
Merited by ETFbitcoin (1)
 #10

If in future down the line PoS becomes outdated or unsecure for Eth 2.0 then obviously Eth will evolve to Eth 3.0 right?
PoS has been outdated for a very long time now simply because it is a flawed algorithm and has a lot of weaknesses.

Quote
Also note Quantum Computers in 25 years time.
Quantum computers in worst case scenario will affect the cryptography not the PoW/PoS discussion.
For example shitererum being PoW or PoS or anything else doesn't change the fact that it is using the same DSA as bitcoin.

Quote
Lastly which ones from the list above are the ones to avoid today never mind considering them in 25 years time?
Avoid in what sense?
Mining algorithm alone is not the deciding factor about whether a cryptocurrency is "good" or "bad". There is a lot of metrics that create a cryptocurrency that should be used while making a decision.
For example I care about decentralization so I would stay away from anything that is centralized or semi centralized. While others may not care about these things such as those who want to gambler and make some quick money from shitcoin pump and dumps.
There are a lot more such as security, immutability of the blockchain, ease of use, utility, fair distribution (eg. no premine), ...

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September 15, 2021, 08:15:18 AM
 #11

So basically everything in that list comes under 2 categories which are PoS & PoW?

Even worse. You had DAG, which is the "database structure" used by certain coins instead of blockchain. Then there was PoW and some of the PoW algos, then PoS and of some ways of having PoS.
You wrote even CryptoNight which I don't know if any coins still use it, at least Monero has moved from CryptoNight to RandomX.

The environmentalists will say nuclear risk will destroy the planet so I doubt PoW will flourish under nuclear energy, it has to be renewable energy for PoW

Are you aware of the differences between nuclear fusion (I wrote about) and nuclear fission (used in Chernobyl)?

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September 15, 2021, 10:22:22 AM
Merited by dkbit98 (3)
 #12

But is the energy is renewable like solar, heat, wind etc. then what does it matter if electricity intensive is wasting energy?

I can get Solar Panels for nothing and get them to use the sun's energy waste as much of it from the sun, as long its not causing harm to the environment they why anyone would object to this?
Do you get solar panels without having to mine for the silicon used in the PV cells? It's quite easy to get greenwashed by the major corporations or those that simply wants to ignore the obvious to suit their narrative.

Renewable energy are not free of environmental impact, infact there is no such thing. An increase in demand brings about the cost to the environment, in terms of sourcing of the raw material or deploying the actual setup. Whether the benefit outweighs the cost is a whole other issue altogether.

No risk to PoW if you don't have a feasible collision.

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September 15, 2021, 10:39:02 AM
 #13

I can get Solar Panels for nothing and get them to use the sun's energy waste as much of it from the sun, as long its not causing harm to the environment they why anyone would object to this?

And why don't you do this?
Oh, wait, because you can't get them for anything because you don't get more than 6 hours of peak sun on average most of the globe, because the batteries are expensive, and so on and on and on. Why is;t everyone mining with solar if that would be really that simple and cheap and instead they search for coal and gas?

It's quite easy to get greenwashed by the major corporations or those that simply wants to ignore the obvious to suit their narrative.

The same propaganda that has invented "carbon neutral" and any company can become such by simply buying carbon credits and using in some states renewables which somehow manage to balance the sheet and turning even a company that uses half of the energy from coal and gas into a  green pioneer.
This green bullshit is showing the consequences of being stupid, all over Europe with renewables not being able to meet demand when there is no wind or sun, closed powerplants and nuclear facilities and because "dirty" produces have to burn more now they must pay more for each ton over the limit so prices have gone up by 50 to 80% all over Europe because of this eco bs.




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September 15, 2021, 03:49:48 PM
Merited by pooya87 (2)
 #14

Almost all of those algorithms you mention will die in next few years and you won't have to wait 25 years to see who will survive.
Bunch of centralized coins including ethereum will switch to even more centralized PoS solution that is favoring only rich people who can stake and get most rewards.
Then we are going to have many absurd and funny situations like we saw in example of solana totally stopping their network for hours and then resetting it.

But is the energy is renewable like solar, heat, wind etc. then what does it matter if electricity intensive is wasting energy?

I can get Solar Panels for nothing and get them to use the sun's energy waste as much of it from the sun, as long its not causing harm to the environment they why anyone would object to this?
There is no waste of energy when you are securing one of the biggest value in human history, like in the case of Bitcoin, all energy and money are well spent,especially when you compare it with price of storing and securing gold and other precious metals.

All that renewable green energy talk is is bs created by some big corporations, mainstream media and individuals who are only hungry for control and power.
To create solar panels or lithium batteries you need to dig a lot of toxic materials from ground and pollute all ecosystem while spending a lot of electricity doing that.
Wind turbines are killing all living things including bird in wide radius, and they are not really sustainable in most parts of the world.
If there was a way to use FREE energy (like Tesla suggested), I am sure that big corporation would not allow that to exist because that would not make them any profit.
One thing I learned, If mainstream media are pushing something a lot, you know there is something wrong with that thing, and they are pushing this thing a lot.
 

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September 15, 2021, 07:44:21 PM
 #15

Pow:

- CryptoNight
- Equihash
- NeoScrypt
- Quark
- Scrypt
- SHA-256
- X11
- X13

PoS:

- DPoS
- Hybrid - PoW & PoS


I understand Bitcoin is PoW and Ethereum 2.0 is PoS which are the most popular ones today.

If in future down the line PoS becomes outdated or unsecure for Eth 2.0 then obviously Eth will evolve to Eth 3.0 right?

Also note Quantum Computers in 25 years time.

Lastly which ones from the list above are the ones to avoid today never mind considering them in 25 years time?

Finally if all above will face there certain obsolete death for a obvious reason that is tech always evolves then if there is a new future unreleased Algorithm that makes all from above list look outdated and unsecure then can the blockchains today hard fork or upgrade to that future algorithm?

Nobody really knows what the world is going to look like in 25 years. The last 25 years have seen so many amazing advances in technology that might have been unthinkable to a person in the 1990's. Re-usable space rockets, widespread adoption of electric cars, certain large developed countries starting to receive most of their power supplies from renewable technology, the blockchain, having phones that can do almost everything and huge advances in things like virtual reality gaming. Quantum computing, when it happens, will be an entire gamechanger and to have the ability to check all possible combinations in a split second is almost unfathomable to our brains. Only quantum encryption could theoretically defeat it, where if you "look" at the correct result it would be detectable and could spur a defensive action (like changing to a new result)

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September 15, 2021, 10:26:26 PM
 #16

i think all algorithm will also adapt in near future not stuck in current algorithm maybe not just eth, other altcoin maybe do hardfrok several times when new attack coming

new algorithm for new coin i think also came to play

Okay for example a brand new fresh algorithm in decades time that a brand new fresh crypto project will use. Do you think this is better than old crypto alt projects released decades ago upgrading like dozen of times to the new algorithm to catch up? Old altcoins have established history however in the tech world the latest is always better than established history?

I remember the old alt projects back in 2017 in the top 100 rank were all the talk but now they are overshadowed by the new crypto projects and gone out of the top 100 replaced by new latest altcoins.
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September 16, 2021, 03:59:32 AM
 #17

Okay for example a brand new fresh algorithm in decades time that a brand new fresh crypto project will use. Do you think this is better than old crypto alt projects released decades ago upgrading like dozen of times to the new algorithm to catch up? Old altcoins have established history however in the tech world the latest is always better than established history?

I remember the old alt projects back in 2017 in the top 100 rank were all the talk but now they are overshadowed by the new crypto projects and gone out of the top 100 replaced by new latest altcoins.
I mean there always new algorithm better than other vice versa, but is no need to upgrade to new algorithm. Current algorithm right now is fine but who know is there new attack or something else that distrupt the network right?

most of new altcoin right now is token based who ride on other chain like NFT and DeFI  boom lately driven more dev to launch their coin on other chain not creating new chain and new algo


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September 16, 2021, 08:00:44 AM
 #18

I think the algorithm is not the only deciding factor. Most new projects survive because of marketing, while the old ones die because they don't have a good community. It might happen because the idea is weak and there is no incentive to support the network, but definitely not because the encryption is not "state-of-the-art" security. I'm personally quite open to change in algorithm, as long as it is useful and not just because it can attract more hedge funds to invest in the team.

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September 16, 2021, 04:30:38 PM
 #19

Okay for example a brand new fresh algorithm in decades time that a brand new fresh crypto project will use. Do you think this is better than old crypto alt projects released decades ago upgrading like dozen of times to the new algorithm to catch up? Old altcoins have established history however in the tech world the latest is always better than established history?

I remember the old alt projects back in 2017 in the top 100 rank were all the talk but now they are overshadowed by the new crypto projects and gone out of the top 100 replaced by new latest altcoins.
I mean there always new algorithm better than other vice versa, but is no need to upgrade to new algorithm. Current algorithm right now is fine but who know is there new attack or something else that distrupt the network right?

most of new altcoin right now is token based who ride on other chain like NFT and DeFI  boom lately driven more dev to launch their coin on other chain not creating new chain and new algo



There's over 12,000 cryptos  Shocked

So the filtering of the 12,000 comes down to the Algorithms were discussing now and the type of blockchains/platforms mentioned in this thread here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5359962.msg57938454#msg57938454

Algorithms and blockchains are like the raw materials of crypto that is constantly needed and all these 1000's of altcoins in the market are just products of these materials that can easily die off but the algorithms and blockchains will always be there in a evolving way to survive in the tech world or risk face being obsolete/outdated/unsecure.

Bitcoin is store of value like gold but for bitcoin to be mass adopted by billions people as a currency like in the title of its whitepaper it needs to evolve to like the fast speed, high TPS, ease of use, cheap/free fees and high security in a still decentralized state. Gold does not get outdated because Gold is not tech that's already been out for 1000s of years but Bitcoin is technology and if btc remains as store of value status it will be known as the only tech in history known to man that does not become obsolete/outdated/forgotten. Of course there's improvements to bitcoin like segwit back in 2017 and taproot this november but this is like apple iPhones where apple releases the same iPhone every year with hardly no changes only subtle improvements.

When bitcoin volatility dies down and becomes stable people will want it as a currency otherwise btc will forever be classed as store of value.

Now the main point is whether Bitcoin becomes store of value or currency or both the security of bitcoin needs updating/changed in this fast evolving tech world or the btc network face risks of remote hacks. For example in 25 years if a quantum computer can hack the btc network then btc will die and go to $0 and its store of value status can be destroyed overnight. Gold cant be remotely hacked but it can be counterfeited but the main atoms/molecules of gold cant be hacked or manipulated you know what I mean so Bitcoin security will have to be always number one priority because Gold cant be physically hacked/remotely hacked or be stolen remotely.
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