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Author Topic: ASIC's (Australian Securities and Investments Commission) policy on Tradehill :)  (Read 2844 times)
Rassah
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December 03, 2011, 05:08:55 AM
 #1

Noticed this posted to SA board (which I read when I'm bored). Not sure if this has been posted here, or if Tradehill guys are aware:

Quote
A few months later, finally got a response from ASIC about tradehill
quote:

http://www.tradehill.com

I refer to your correspondence of 4 July 2011 in which you raise concerns about a foreign company called TradeHill, which operates the website http://www.tradehill.com where bitcoins can be exchanged for national currencies. I understand that you are specifically concerned that the company and the website are not subject to government regulation.

ASIC has extensively considered the issues raised in your correspondence and has decided that we will not take any further action in connection with your concerns at this stage.

Firstly, there is insufficient evidence before ASIC that TradeHill needs to be registered with us. It is noted that TradeHill is USA and Chilean based company, although it has some Australian users. Although a foreign company may not carry on a business in Australia unless it is registered under Div 2 of Pt 5B.2 of the Corporations Act 2001 ("the Act"), a company does not carry on a business here merely because it maintains a bank account in Australia or solicits or procures an order that becomes a binding contract in Australia.

ASIC has also considered whether TradeHill may be required to hold some type of licence issued and regulated by ASIC (such as an Australian Financial Services Licence or a Australian Market Licence) or be subject to consumer protection laws administered by this agency. It has been concluded that such rules are not applicable as TradeHill's business does not appear to involve financial products or services (as defined in the Act).

Although ASIC has decided not to pursue your concerns at this stage, we appreciate the time you have taken to alert us to this matter. Given bitcoins are a relatively new and novel technology it is possible that ASIC's position may be reviewed in the future. In addition, the information you have given us has been stored in our confidential internal database and will assist if we receive further similar reports.

You may wish to raise your concerns with other government agencies or your local Member of Parliament.

If you have any questions in relation to this email please contact me on



Source:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3438321&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=156#post398104448

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December 03, 2011, 06:05:07 AM
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I'd love to see his original letter. What prompted him to whinge about them in the first place?

edit: by the way.. I'm hardly surprised at the (lack of) action from our regulator.  I once reported to one of our consumer affairs agencies about an Australian guy who was pimping some quackery to cure aids - and was told that 'youtube' was out of their jurisdiction :/  It was bizarre - like if he'd put the ad in a local paper they'd be all over him, but just because youtube is out there on them foreign internets - free pass.

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December 03, 2011, 06:15:56 AM
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It has been concluded that such rules are not applicable as TradeHill's business does not appear to involve financial products or services (as defined in the Act).

That's.... kinda important news right there. The precedent has been set!
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December 03, 2011, 06:56:39 AM
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I'd love to see his original letter. What prompted him to whinge about them in the first place?

SA goons really hate Bitcoin, think it's a scam, see it's users as lunatic idiots, think only use for bitcoin is illegal activities and scamming people, and they desperately want bitcoin to fail just to get some laughs at others' expence. In other words, they're a bunch of bored lonely trolls with a glorified sence of justice, and way way way too much free time on their hands. So that's why.

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December 03, 2011, 07:04:10 AM
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Donate bitcoins for www.non-douchebaggery.com

http://hotchickswithdouchebags.com/

End the spread ...

4CE

Use Tradehill to buy and sell Bitcoins:  tradehill.com

Use Bitinstant to transfer funds instantly to Tradehill:  bitinstant.com
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December 03, 2011, 07:21:55 AM
 #6

Noticed this posted to SA board (which I read when I'm bored). Not sure if this has been posted here, or if Tradehill guys are aware:

Quote
A few months later, finally got a response from ASIC about tradehill
quote:

http://www.tradehill.com

I refer to your correspondence of 4 July 2011 in which you raise concerns about a foreign company called TradeHill, which operates the website http://www.tradehill.com where bitcoins can be exchanged for national currencies. I understand that you are specifically concerned that the company and the website are not subject to government regulation.

ASIC has extensively considered the issues raised in your correspondence and has decided that we will not take any further action in connection with your concerns at this stage.

Firstly, there is insufficient evidence before ASIC that TradeHill needs to be registered with us. It is noted that TradeHill is USA and Chilean based company, although it has some Australian users. Although a foreign company may not carry on a business in Australia unless it is registered under Div 2 of Pt 5B.2 of the Corporations Act 2001 ("the Act"), a company does not carry on a business here merely because it maintains a bank account in Australia or solicits or procures an order that becomes a binding contract in Australia.

ASIC has also considered whether TradeHill may be required to hold some type of licence issued and regulated by ASIC (such as an Australian Financial Services Licence or a Australian Market Licence) or be subject to consumer protection laws administered by this agency. It has been concluded that such rules are not applicable as TradeHill's business does not appear to involve financial products or services (as defined in the Act).

Although ASIC has decided not to pursue your concerns at this stage, we appreciate the time you have taken to alert us to this matter. Given bitcoins are a relatively new and novel technology it is possible that ASIC's position may be reviewed in the future. In addition, the information you have given us has been stored in our confidential internal database and will assist if we receive further similar reports.

You may wish to raise your concerns with other government agencies or your local Member of Parliament.

If you have any questions in relation to this email please contact me on



Source:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3438321&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=156#post398104448

Thanks for sharing. That's great news.

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December 03, 2011, 07:57:05 AM
 #7

I'd love to see his original letter. What prompted him to whinge about them in the first place?

SA goons really hate Bitcoin, think it's a scam, see it's users as lunatic idiots, think only use for bitcoin is illegal activities and scamming people, and they desperately want bitcoin to fail just to get some laughs at others' expence. In other words, they're a bunch of bored lonely trolls with a glorified sence of justice, and way way way too much free time on their hands. So that's why.

If they really though this they would not pay any attention to Bitcoin. Its because they believe it can take off that they are so obsessed.
Jered Kenna (TradeHill)
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December 03, 2011, 09:52:39 AM
 #8

Assuming this is legit (and if it's a troll it's very well written) this is:

1) Reassuring
2) The first government to officially say it's ok with Bitcoin / not a financial instrument and not regulated as far as I am aware of.

Truly interesting stuff. We've had a few people try to cause problems for us in Australia and it could be for a variety of reasons. One of the most frustrating parts about Bitcoin is the uncertainty. This clears a little bit up for now. If they decide to change their mind I hope they let everyone know in advance.

Thanks for the link.

Jered

P.S. can you put a smiley face or something like good news in the title, assumed it was another troll thread and almost didn't click it.

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Jeremy West spendbitcoins.com
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December 03, 2011, 10:02:54 AM
 #9

Assuming this is legit (and if it's a troll it's very well written) this is:

1) Reassuring
2) The first government to officially say it's ok with Bitcoin / not a financial instrument and not regulated as far as I am aware of.

Truly interesting stuff. We've had a few people try to cause problems for us in Australia and it could be for a variety of reasons. One of the most frustrating parts about Bitcoin is the uncertainty. This clears a little bit up for now. If they decide to change their mind I hope they let everyone know in advance.

Thanks for the link.

Jered

P.S. can you put a smiley face or something like good news in the title, assumed it was another troll thread and almost didn't click it.

+1

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December 06, 2011, 06:32:44 PM
 #10

I'd love to see his original letter. What prompted him to whinge about them in the first place?

SA goons really hate Bitcoin, think it's a scam, see it's users as lunatic idiots, think only use for bitcoin is illegal activities and scamming people, and they desperately want bitcoin to fail just to get some laughs at others' expence. In other words, they're a bunch of bored lonely trolls with a glorified sence of justice, and way way way too much free time on their hands. So that's why.

  Being a former SA member, from back when there were more sound minds about there, I would highly advise some of them to take a break from the interwebs. Then come back in a few months and just spend some time reading the content that is posted there these days. I believe their take on many of the views expressed therein would be quite different. As I know mine are. Of course, the few years of college and living in the 'real world' after my presense there probably have something to do with my view of the place now as well.

  Cheers

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Rassah
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December 06, 2011, 06:42:30 PM
 #11

I'd love to see his original letter. What prompted him to whinge about them in the first place?

SA goons really hate Bitcoin, think it's a scam, see it's users as lunatic idiots, think only use for bitcoin is illegal activities and scamming people, and they desperately want bitcoin to fail just to get some laughs at others' expence. In other words, they're a bunch of bored lonely trolls with a glorified sence of justice, and way way way too much free time on their hands. So that's why.

  Being a former SA member, from back when there were more sound minds about there, I would highly advise some of them to take a break from the interwebs. Then come back in a few months and just spend some time reading the content that is posted there these days. I believe their take on many of the views expressed therein would be quite different. As I know mine are. Of course, the few years of college and living in the 'real world' after my presense there probably have something to do with my view of the place now as well.

  Cheers

Thinking about it a bit more, I think their biggest problem is that it's a clusterfuck of yes-men. The amount of peer pressure and regurgitation of each others ideas pretty much guarantees that everyone will be on the same page, wishing for the same thing (downfall of whatever they feel like laughing about), and I doubt any amount of education will make a difference.

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December 07, 2011, 05:24:47 PM
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If they really though this they would not pay any attention to Bitcoin. Its because they believe it can take off that they are so obsessed.

Don't be silly - some people just really like to be right on the internet, and that's why they'll repeatedly post things they're convinced is truth. I'm the exact same way about things I'm interested in.

They're convinced Bitcoin will fail, and they shout it from the rooftops because when it inevitably (to them) does, they want everyone to know they called it.

Thinking about it a bit more, I think their biggest problem is that it's a clusterfuck of yes-men. The amount of peer pressure and regurgitation of each others ideas pretty much guarantees that everyone will be on the same page, wishing for the same thing (downfall of whatever they feel like laughing about), and I doubt any amount of education will make a difference.

This was the exact criticism I had of them months ago regarding Bitcoin. Many of the exact flaws they can point out in the Bitcoin community (because this forum in particular is one giant echo chamber of yes-men, if ever there were one) can be attributed to them as well. There are some really braindead, pants-on-head retarded folks here - but you'd have to be deluded to think that any sizable community doesn't have it's fair share of village idiots.

SA's issue is that they think the only idiots in their group are the Bitcoin supporters.

^_^
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March 10, 2012, 02:20:27 PM
 #13

Noticed this posted to SA board (which I read when I'm bored). Not sure if this has been posted here, or if Tradehill guys are aware:

Quote
A few months later, finally got a response from ASIC about tradehill
quote:

http://www.tradehill.com

I refer to your correspondence of 4 July 2011 in which you raise concerns about a foreign company called TradeHill, which operates the website http://www.tradehill.com where bitcoins can be exchanged for national currencies. I understand that you are specifically concerned that the company and the website are not subject to government regulation.

ASIC has extensively considered the issues raised in your correspondence and has decided that we will not take any further action in connection with your concerns at this stage.

Firstly, there is insufficient evidence before ASIC that TradeHill needs to be registered with us. It is noted that TradeHill is USA and Chilean based company, although it has some Australian users. Although a foreign company may not carry on a business in Australia unless it is registered under Div 2 of Pt 5B.2 of the Corporations Act 2001 ("the Act"), a company does not carry on a business here merely because it maintains a bank account in Australia or solicits or procures an order that becomes a binding contract in Australia.

ASIC has also considered whether TradeHill may be required to hold some type of licence issued and regulated by ASIC (such as an Australian Financial Services Licence or a Australian Market Licence) or be subject to consumer protection laws administered by this agency. It has been concluded that such rules are not applicable as TradeHill's business does not appear to involve financial products or services (as defined in the Act).

Although ASIC has decided not to pursue your concerns at this stage, we appreciate the time you have taken to alert us to this matter. Given bitcoins are a relatively new and novel technology it is possible that ASIC's position may be reviewed in the future. In addition, the information you have given us has been stored in our confidential internal database and will assist if we receive further similar reports.

You may wish to raise your concerns with other government agencies or your local Member of Parliament.

If you have any questions in relation to this email please contact me on



Source:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3438321&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=156#post398104448

I'd be really hesitant to accept financial advice from SA forums, has anyone taken the time to do further research or verify this?

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April 03, 2012, 06:08:32 AM
 #14

Apologies for raising this thread from the dead. Can someone PM me the details for contacting ASIC (email addy?) in reference to a similar query I have. This time its the broker WorldBitcoinExchange, based and registered in Australia.

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April 03, 2012, 04:04:53 PM
 #15

Apologies for raising this thread from the dead. Can someone PM me the details for contacting ASIC (email addy?) in reference to a similar query I have. This time its the broker WorldBitcoinExchange, based and registered in Australia.
WBX has its own thread (search for it), and was delisted a while ago before he closed up shop.

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