Miners Are the Bears

[Cryptoababe]

When BTC price drops due to sell off, People panic and say a lot of bad things. But what i think is miners need money probably to improve thier mining facilities. I never expect bitcoin miners to buy btc. All they should do is sell and probably upgrade mining facilities.
Also, with lesser miners, transaction hash rate will be low so sell off from them will always bring a positive result to the bitcoin network.

So, if miners sell, its mostly favorable because it gives people more opportunity to buy at discount prices, also gives miners more fund to upgrade thier mining facilities and helps the bitcoin network function more better.
So, Miners are the bears and they are Good for the Bitcoin Network.

[oktana]

IMO, Miners aren't really the ones behind the dump. Even when we hit the latest all time high, there were still miners. Right?
I think the issue is FUD. Any little news against Bitcoin just creates FUD and a lot of people just fall for it unnecessarily. Like what happened a few days ago with China. Truth is, they'll always be FUD than any miner selling their bitcoins. Besides, volatility is the nature of Bitcoin and the bear run counts.

[stompix]

Also, with lesser miners, transaction hash rate will be low so sell off from them will always bring a positive result to the bitcoin network.

That's not how the hash rate works, there is no transaction hashrate, and there is nothing completely positive or negative in this.
Mining is a business simple as that, miners get paid and miners have expenses, without them investing in gear there is less security in the network, and the reward and the fees were set with this aspect in mind from the start. Just how anyone invests directly in bitcoin and decides to sell at a profit or keep it, so do miners, they can keep a part of the coins and sell all of them, you can't lump all of them in one category.

Going by that logic mining gear manufacturers are also dumping as they mostly receive payments in crypto and they have to pay suppliers and workers in fiat.

I think the issue is FUD.

I think the issue is that lately nobody even bothers to read something before labeling it as FUD. What FUD is in this?

[oktana]

I think the issue is FUD.

I think the issue is that lately nobody even bothers to read something before labeling it as FUD. What FUD is in this?

No no. I didn't mean it in that way. I was not referring to the OP. I was only dropping my thoughts. When I said FUD, I meant what has been happening lately. If you read my reply well, you'd clearly see that. And please don't chew me .

[Cryptoababe]

That's not how the hash rate works, there is no transaction hashrate, and there is nothing completely positive or negative in this.
Mining is a business simple as that, miners get paid and miners have expenses, without them investing in gear there is less security in the network, and the reward and the fees were set with this aspect in mind from the start. Just how anyone invests directly in bitcoin and decides to sell at a profit or keep it, so do miners, they can keep a part of the coins and sell all of them, you can't lump all of them in one category.

I thought miners favours hash rate because of the previous china bitcoin mining ban which leads to reduction in bitcoin hash rate back then.. Since then, ive looked at bitcoin mining as an important role to the bitcoin network. Is it not?

[mk4]

A "bear" is mostly someone or an entity that's "bearish" on Bitcoin, pretty much anyone who thinks Bitcoin is useless or something and will crash down. So why are miners considered bears if it's the fact that they actually think bitcoin mining is a good long-term business? They invested in hardware in the first place.

[stompix]

No no. I didn't mean it in that way. I was not referring to the OP. I was only dropping my thoughts. When I said FUD, I meant what has been happening lately.

And why did you felt the need to mention this?
Earthquakes, volcano eruptions, floods, and forest fires have been happening lately but I don't see any reason to mention them.
Now "chewing" you but I'm getting really tired to see FUD, FUD, FUD in every damn discussion.

I thought miners favours hash rate because of the previous china bitcoin mining ban which leads to reduction in bitcoin hash rate back then.

Sorry but there is a language barrier here, I don't understand why you mean by "miners favours".I've got the impression from your first post that you've equaled less hash rate with less overall miners income but as I said, I'm not sure anymore since it's clear I'm not really getting what you aim at.

ive looked at bitcoin mining as an important role to the bitcoin network. Is it not?

Yes, it is, and more than important it has a critical role, if there is no mining the whole system stops dead in its tracks.

[btc_angela]

Lol, how can you say that miners is bears when they have a business model to follow and make profits as well. So just like any other business, if they need to cash out and dump of their stash to pay their operations then nothing is wrong with that. But saying that they are bears and implying that they are the cause of the massive dump or at least a dip right now is not right.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

Either way there is too much selling or manipulated, price suppression & not enough buying at the moment. I feel that $41,9xx is cheap right now. Hopefully the market agrees with me & the price goes up soon.

[avikz]

When BTC price drops due to sell off, People panic and say a lot of bad things. But what i think is miners need money probably to improve thier mining facilities. I never expect bitcoin miners to buy btc. All they should do is sell and probably upgrade mining facilities.
Also, with lesser miners, transaction hash rate will be low so sell off from them will always bring a positive result to the bitcoin network.

So, if miners sell, its mostly favorable because it gives people more opportunity to buy at discount prices, also gives miners more fund to upgrade thier mining facilities and helps the bitcoin network function more better.
So, Miners are the bears and they are Good for the Bitcoin Network.

Let's assume you own a factory and you produce a great product with a lot if demand in the market. Would you like to sell off your product at lesser value than the market price? Wouldn't you use the demand as a use case to increase your price so that you can inveat in better automation to further reduce your production cost thus increasing your profit margin?

You got it all wrong. Miners are not the ones behind the pumo and dump game. Also you are referring to the discounted price which may not be a reality unless you have fee million worth of trade volume. 

[DaveF]

Miners are running a business. They are going to have to sell their BTC to pay bills that is just the way it is.
What they do with the rest depends on the business model.
If their model is to expand then they sell more BTC to get more miners & larger facilities.
If their model is diversification, then they sell more BTC to buy other coins.
If their model is to hold and grow then they sit on the coins.

As for the price flotations, there are probably a ton of people buying on the dips and selling on the highs and just repeating the cycle again and again.
Get in @ $41500 Sell @ $44500 and repeat. It keeps the price depressed, but traders don't care about the price they care about the percentage swings of the price.

-Dave

[pawanjain]

When BTC price drops due to sell off, People panic and say a lot of bad things. But what i think is miners need money probably to improve thier mining facilities. I never expect bitcoin miners to buy btc. All they should do is sell and probably upgrade mining facilities.
Also, with lesser miners, transaction hash rate will be low so sell off from them will always bring a positive result to the bitcoin network.

So, if miners sell, its mostly favorable because it gives people more opportunity to buy at discount prices, also gives miners more fund to upgrade thier mining facilities and helps the bitcoin network function more better.
So, Miners are the bears and they are Good for the Bitcoin Network.

Miners would only want bitcoin to be more bullish and it is less likely that they would sell and dump the market.
They know once a dump occurs more people do panic selling which creates a bigger dip.
This makes their holdings decrease in value. The reason why they are mining at first place is to make profits.
So I don't think they would create a dump by selling but instead take profits out at lesser intervals and reinvest in mining to make more bitcoins.

[OcTradism]

So, if miners sell, its mostly favorable because it gives people more opportunity to buy at discount prices, also gives miners more fund to upgrade thier mining facilities and helps the bitcoin network function more better.
So, Miners are the bears and they are Good for the Bitcoin Network.

You can not generalize all miners like this.

Miners are like investors, they can be whale miners or retail miners. Retail miners will be panic and do panic sell and have pressure of electricity bill every month.

Whale miners don't have such panic or electricity bill pressure. They have solid vision and plan. They hold their Bitcoin from mining rewards and wait for tops to sell.

If I am not wrong, miners are holding their Bitcoin according to on-chain analysis from glassnode.

Miners can be bear when most of them capitulate in bear market or in crash like in May this year. Capitulation is signal of good growth later.

[Imran232]

Yeah, I also think bitcoin miners are another price-dumper. In that case, we can't blame them too, because if we had bitcoin and we saw that the bitcoin price was pumping and I could generate a profit at whatever price I sold, and there was a chance it would be dumped again, I would buy it again. Every time the market starts to pump, the miners sell their coins. Because they didn't buy the coin, they don't have to worry about the price factor. In that case, they think about selling it at a high price, then they could buy it at a low price again. So it's a market strategy that we all follow. So I don't think they should be blamed for this. They also had huge investments and daily electricity costs too.

[swogerino]

Either way there is too much selling or manipulated, price suppression & not enough buying at the moment. I feel that $41,9xx is cheap right now. Hopefully the market agrees with me & the price goes up soon.

I read somewhere on the Internet that the biggest companies of crypto trading/managing in USA were moving funds from US to Canada because of more favorable laws for crypto there.US here is missing a lot of money and the money is flowing in another country.What I think is if they are smart the SEC https://www.sec.gov/ should move fast to bring the flow of money back in US,if they do so by mid of October where they have a meeting about this then we could see Bitcoin price already in 100.000 dollars in October.The only problem is that the Chairman of SEC has said we are going to act very prudently and very cautiously about this so he is not pro to such move,he needs to change his mind for the better of his country,the US.

[hatshepsut93]

So, if miners sell, its mostly favorable because it gives people more opportunity to buy at discount prices, also gives miners more fund to upgrade thier mining facilities and helps the bitcoin network function more better.

It's favorable for miners, not the whole market. All the hodlers have their wealth reduced, even if just temporarily. One dump can also trigger a bigger dump, for example if there's a lot of leveraged positions, or if speculators decide to trade based on momentum. And also such large dumps contribute to volatility, which hurts Bitcoin use as a currency. Would have been better if miners were selling their coins continuously.

So, Miners are the bears and they are Good for the Bitcoin Network.

When Bitcoin drops everyone here starts talking about FUD and manipulation, maybe those things are also good for Bitcoin?

[Dave1]

Either way there is too much selling or manipulated, price suppression & not enough buying at the moment. I feel that $41,9xx is cheap right now. Hopefully the market agrees with me & the price goes up soon.

Yeah, instead of looking at the bad side on what is happening right now, regardless if the miners are supposedly dumping to keep their business running, still a best opportunity to buy at the current price.

We're not yet in the bear season, so I'm expecting that we will go back again at least to $43k-$48k which is the prior range before this dump to $41k.

[yazher]

i don't agree if you say miners are bears, because miners do all that just want to make profit, they want to adopt longer, and hold bitcoin in the long term, no one is mining in vain, everyone needs profit including the miner alone..

Miners have their own strategy to make a profit in this industry and they also hold some significant roles in the price of the crypto market. it's just wrong to attribute to them the role of being bears because they seem not the kind of people who wanted to price to drop by just merely holding their bitcoins. Most likely they are being accused of something they are not because of their strategies to maintain the balance of how they can get profit on every time they mined bitcoins.

[uneng]

So, Miners are the bears and they are Good for the Bitcoin Network.

Probably you mean miners are responsible for bearish markets when they sell their mined btcs, dumping the prices of crypto currencies in general. However, I don't think they are the main responsible for such events. I believe the real bears are the whales (people who hold large amounts of bitcoins, wealthy investors) who are constantly playing with market's prices for speculative reasons.
Anyway, miners are indeed good for blockchain network, you are right, as without them we wouldn't have our transactions completed. And it would be even better if there were more miners around, so the transactions costs would be cheaper for network's users.

[sirminesalot]

When BTC price drops due to sell off, People panic and say a lot of bad things. But what i think is miners need money probably to improve thier mining facilities. I never expect bitcoin miners to buy btc. All they should do is sell and probably upgrade mining facilities.
Also, with lesser miners, transaction hash rate will be low so sell off from them will always bring a positive result to the bitcoin network.

So, if miners sell, its mostly favorable because it gives people more opportunity to buy at discount prices, also gives miners more fund to upgrade thier mining facilities and helps the bitcoin network function more better.
So, Miners are the bears and they are Good for the Bitcoin Network.

I think the whales effect is have more impact than just a miner that want to sell their "ores" to buy new mining stuff because they won't do it together with other miners but whales is different. They have a group whales with millions dollars worth of cryptocurrency and when they decided to mass selling, the market will red. That's the power of the whales. And also supported with FUD with big media, people who panic or will follow their wave and having many losses.