The Bitcoin Machine

[dkbit98]

Non-technical users can now easily run their own Bitcoin and Lightning node with plug-and-play solution by Umbrel called The Bitcoin machine .
It has beautiful aluminum design with 1.8" display, Raspberry Pi4 with 8GB RAM and 1.6 Ghz quad-core CPU, Storage capacity 1TB or 2TB SSD and Umbrel OS.
All you have to do it connect this device to your router with ethernet cable, turn the power on, and open umbrel.local.

Price is $429 for 1TB SSD version and $559 for 2TB SSD version, and you can purchase it in five colors including orange. (Bitcoin is accepted for payment)

I know this is not for everyone, and yes you can get all this separate parts and run your own node much cheaper, or even use some old computer, but this is first easy solution for the masses.
Let's now check individual prices, Raspberry Pi4 with 8GB RAM is around $80, and 1 TB SSD drive is around $90 so I think that $429 is reasonable price for The Bitcoin Machine, and I expect other similar and cheaper options to show up in future.


https://thebitcoinmachines.com/

PS
Extra cools stuff is that sats/USD custom Bitcoin ticker is shown in display:
https://github.com/doidotech/TBM

You can assemble your own Bitcoin Machine if you want with following this instructions:
https://thebitcoinmachines.com/setup/


I am not affiliated with The Bitcoin Machine in any way.
Do your own research.

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[crwth]

I like the idea of running your node to verify and run it for yourself. What I like about it is that it's dedicated to that use. You won't have to depend on other users to run a node for you anymore, and you can verify that it's accurate data from the network. Be a support to the network. That's the best way to show that you are all in with BTC.

Definitely for the non-tech savvy people who don't have a server to run 24/7 but still want to support the network.

[n0nce]

Looks good! I think last I checked, a Raspberry Pi setup with the best model 4, a 1TB SSD and nice case, power supply and SD card reached almost 300, so with 430 there's not a big margin. I think newbies will love this, since they have less stuff to worry about (building and setting it up correctly). I'd say it's a fair price to have it all built and ready to go.

However, I'm not sure this is the first such solution.

For example, the MyNode is basically the exact same thing from what I can see.

Edit: It seems prices have gone down a bit Adding around 20% of VAT, depending on country, and around €80 for an SSD brings you to around €240. So $430 is almost double. I know it's a mess with GBP prices, but I calculated everything in EUR and it's €240 in total. Importing something from the US cost in vat and import fees around the same amount that is 'saved' by exchanging USD for EUR, so it'll be €430 for the Bitcoin Machine. But I'm sure there's a market for it.


If you add the case price difference of around €60, and are fine with DIYing it, you can build it yourself then for around €300. I like that they offer this option.

[sheenshane]

The power of the Raspberry Pi product and now it can be used as Bitcoin Machine to run your own node.

It's always good to use Raspberry Pi, actually, I want to share this.  
I'm using the Raspberry Pi3 version for my vending machines like e-loading system and also retailing my internet connection (called us, Vendo machine) to my neighborhood.  It's all good.

You can assemble your own Bitcoin Machine if you want with following this instructions:
https://thebitcoinmachines.com/setup/

Thank you for sharing this I might try to build on my own machine and study how to run a node, I have a little knowledge and maybe I can apply it.  

BTW, a heatsink is enough to cool down the machine?  Because all machines that I have built have a small fan over the heatsink.
In that case, I just want to build my own custom board, I think we have a big discount and save a little amount of money than purchasing a finished product if we have DIY.

[LoyceV]

All you have to do it connect this device to your router with ethernet cable, turn the power on, and open umbrel.local.

I'm not a very trusting person when it comes to Bitcoin, I already have a hard time trusting a hardware wallet, so the first thing that comes to mind is having to trust all the software in this black box.

I know this is not for everyone

The "plug and play" design makes me think it's for beginners, but a beginner doesn't need their own nodes. It looks more like a cool gimmick for shops that accept Bitcoin.

It reminds me of The Internet.

[NotATether]

It's quite expensive for a box that should just function as a bitcoin node and one would question why they needed to place a 1TB SSD inside the box when the blockchain isn't even half as large yet. If it were a box that could run other coins' nodes then I could understand this but it seems like a waste if it's only running a bitcoin node.

[dkbit98]

I'm not a very trusting person when it comes to Bitcoin, I already have a hard time trusting a hardware wallet, so the first thing that comes to mind is having to trust all the software in this black box.

Your router is also a black box and you use it every day.
This Umbrel software is all Open Source so you can check the code and assemble device yourself with Raspberry Pi, and I would disagree that people don't need to have their own Bitcoin and LN node.

it seems like a waste if it's only running a bitcoin node.

Yeah, it's a shame it's not printing money and running cartoons 24/7  
Average smartphone is about the same price and you can have lot of fun with it and even use it as vibrator and self-tracking device.

[LoyceV]

Your router is also a black box and you use it every day.

I don't have to trust my router though. If it doesn't do it's job, I'll notice.

This Umbrel software is all Open Source so you can check the code and assemble device yourself with Raspberry Pi

Let me put it this way: anything dedicated to Bitcoin usage is a magnet for abusers.

I would disagree that people don't need to have their own Bitcoin and LN node.

I'd argue I can use Bitcoin without my own node. Even though I have Bitcoin Core running, I don't use it for most of my transactions.

[DaveF]

Your router is also a black box and you use it every day.

I don't have to trust my router though. If it doesn't do it's job, I'll notice.

It can also do someone else's job:
https://blogs.juniper.net/en-us/security/freshly-disclosed-vulnerability-cve-2021-20090-exploited-in-the-wild
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/home-and-office-routers-come-under-attack-by-china-state-hackers-france-warns/


As for the device in OP, it is in the same price range that Fulmo sells the pre-built raspiblitz for and mynodebtc sells their pre-built unit for.
So, yes it's a lot more then if you did it yourself, but that is kind of the point. You are not doing it yourself, so you pay more.

To some people it's worth it, to others it will not be.

As for the security aspect of it. If you are running any of the 'node in a box' nodes you are taking some form of a leap of faith that the people who put the packages together and made the installers / configurations / etc. have not gone evil. So, I really don't know home much more of a leap it is to get the hardware prebuilt from them too.

-Dave

[BlackHatCoiner]

It looks cool, but I find it theft to sell the ability for one to run a Bitcoin & LN node with some extra (open source) goods for $429. I mean, come on, seriously? Is this how you'll encourage the average Joe interested in this field to run a node? That's a rip off.

It's quite expensive for a box that should just function as a bitcoin node and one would question why they needed to place a 1TB SSD inside the box when the blockchain isn't even half as large yet.

The applications it includes weight a lot. Take for instance the Electrum server. Not to mention that some people may want to try out the test net. You should cover those cases with at least 1TB of storage.

[NotATether]

The applications it includes weight a lot. Take for instance the Electrum server. Not to mention that some people may want to try out the test net. You should cover those cases with at least 1TB of storage.

Why would an Electrum server need to weigh several dozens of GB in storage space? (At least that is what I think you are implying).

Testnet is only around 30GB large or so.

[n0nce]

The applications it includes weight a lot. Take for instance the Electrum server. Not to mention that some people may want to try out the test net. You should cover those cases with at least 1TB of storage.

Why would an Electrum server need to weigh several dozens of GB in storage space? (At least that is what I think you are implying).

Testnet is only around 30GB large or so.

I would build any node with 1TB as well to be honest. I think Electrum needs like 20GB or so as cache. Blockchain, some indexes, Electrum and Lightning node software do get uncomfortably close to the 500GB limit of your disk and then you're going to tell a noob to replace the SSD in a year and reinstall everything by themselves?
The size difference of the SSD is also not what makes this device expensive anyway As I showed you can build it DIY 1:1 the same for 240. But not everyone wants or can do it. If it turns out to be too expensive, they will have to reduce the price or go bust, so I would say: we will see, let the market decide

[BlackHatCoiner]

@NotATether, @n0nce, I think Umbrel's point is very clear: Buy 1TB of storage, sleep easy for the next half decade. If you gave me 500 GB of storage, I'd knew that if I run both main net and test net plus electrs plus any other extra application (such as related with LN), I'd start feeling that it may not last for more than two years with the abrupt increase of the chain's size.

I also remember installing myNode and being notified that I'd soon run out of free space while I was running it from a 1TB external disk. The applications these OSes use do eat a lot of space somehow.

[DaveF]

It looks cool, but I find it theft to sell the ability for one to run a Bitcoin & LN node with some extra (open source) goods for $429. I mean, come on, seriously? Is this how you'll encourage the average Joe interested in this field to run a node? That's a rip off.

But, like I said above it's the cost of having someone do it for you.
You can go and buy the parts yourself. And assemble it yourself. Or you can have someone else do it.

I look it as no different then having someone do work on my car that I can do myself.
I can get a set of good brake pads for $49 and install them myself. If I want the shop to do it it's going to cost me about $75 in labor.
So I can spend $49 for the front and $49 for the rear and do it myself or I can spend $250 and have someone else do it.
If I did not know how to do it, or did not have the tools, or the time, or.... then I would have to spend the $250.

Same here, I can build it, so can you but not everyone can. So why not let someone have a bit of profit.
And also, as I pointed out above. That is the price that all of the 'nodes in a box' are. Give or take a few dollars. So it seems to be a workable price point.

-Dave

[Rath_]

Why would an Electrum server need to weigh several dozens of GB in storage space? (At least that is what I think you are implying).

I think Electrum needs like 20GB or so as cache.

I am running ElectrumX and its database currently takes up exactly 71 GB of space! That's... a lot. Is anyone here running a different implementation so that we could compare the numbers?

By the way, n0nce are you going to set up your own node any time soon?

[dkbit98]

I don't have to trust my router though. If it doesn't do it's job, I'll notice.

Maybe you will, but I just gave you one example, you are using bunch of other stuff all day long, including Bitcoin Core and all other wallets, computers and phones.
Sure, any device connected with Bitcoin can be a magnet for abusers, but I can say that for anything else, your computer is magnet for viruses and malware, internet and governments are magnet for abuse but you still pay your taxes like a good boy  

As for the security aspect of it. If you are running any of the 'node in a box' nodes you are taking some form of a leap of faith that the people who put the packages together and made the installers / configurations / etc. have not gone evil. So, I really don't know home much more of a leap it is to get the hardware prebuilt from them too.

We are also taking a leap of faith when we are running Bitcoin Core, your phone and your computer, so we can just reduce the risks, unless we are security code experts with big brains.

It looks cool, but I find it theft to sell the ability for one to run a Bitcoin & LN node with some extra (open source) goods for $429. I mean, come on, seriously? Is this how you'll encourage the average Joe interested in this field to run a node? That's a rip off.

Yeah, I think you should move to some communist country (if you are not living there already) and demand to get everything for free.
Let's see how far you get.
Why do you purchase anything when in theory you can make anything your own, right? Wrong!

[hugeblack]

The price that appears is a little expensive for the average user, as most of those who runs a full node are either obsessed with privacy (will not trust third parties) or they are inexperienced (there is no need to manage a full node.)


It is suitable for a small store or commercial store that accepts bitcoin and pays with the lightning network, but it is better to modify it a little to be a point of sale (a full node, hardware wallet, a screen to display the QR code and currency rates)
It's convenient and quick to set up. All you need is a few clicks and an Internet connection, waiting for syncing or the option to trust a third party.

Then a price of $600 or even 800 would be appropriate.

Personally, I see the device in its current form are useless.

[n0nce]

Why would an Electrum server need to weigh several dozens of GB in storage space? (At least that is what I think you are implying).

I think Electrum needs like 20GB or so as cache.

I am running ElectrumX and its database currently takes up exactly 71 GB of space! That's... a lot. Is anyone here running a different implementation so that we could compare the numbers?

By the way, n0nce are you going to set up your own node any time soon?

Right, it can be much more than 20, I was just throwing out ballpark order-of-magnitude numbers! I'm not sure about my exact size though.

Yup, almost there! Shut down the old node, moved all funds etc., now end of week probably going to reinstall OS, Core, reverify blockchain and recompile c-lightning cleanly without plugins at first (I believe those caused some issues). OT over

As for the security aspect of it. If you are running any of the 'node in a box' nodes you are taking some form of a leap of faith that the people who put the packages together and made the installers / configurations / etc. have not gone evil. So, I really don't know home much more of a leap it is to get the hardware prebuilt from them too.

We are also taking a leap of faith when we are running Bitcoin Core, your phone and your computer, so we can just reduce the risks, unless we are security code experts with big brains.

I'm siding with DaveF here. If we install the OS and all software on our own, we will at least have verified each download and compiled it for ourselves. Instead a device with everything installed doesn't provide this certainty. It could easily be a forked version of either software with some little modifications that you can't notice in normal usage. Even if you're not a security expert and didn't check the code yourself, at least when DIY, you know you're running unmodified official release.

It looks cool, but I find it theft to sell the ability for one to run a Bitcoin & LN node with some extra (open source) goods for $429. I mean, come on, seriously? Is this how you'll encourage the average Joe interested in this field to run a node? That's a rip off.

Yeah, I think you should move to some communist country (if you are not living there already) and demand to get everything for free.
Let's see how far you get.
Why do you purchase anything when in theory you can make anything your own, right? Wrong!

There are 2 arguments for DIYing this: price and security. When it comes to price, I agree: some people would be at a loss if doing it themselves, if their [hourly wage * time to set it up] is larger than the difference between DIY and buy. So in that case it depends on how much someone earns and how much time they need to set the node up. Students like to DIY lots of stuff since their wage is so low that it usually makes sense not to pay someone for it. But if you earn more and / or have little experience with Linux, it may be better to avoid DIY.
However, there will always be the issue of security if you don't 'DIY' this, since you haven't verified the software, which can be a larger or smaller concern based on what you want to do with it.

I'd argue if you don't store any funds on it anyway, there's no risk really. A plain full Bitcoin node can be run without any funds on it and provide the same functionality as if funds were added. It just changes if you want to be a Lightning router.

[SFR10]

Does anybody know if this is another US-based company or not ^{[they haven't listed that information on their website]}?
- As a last resort, I might go with such a thing if it doesn't ship from the US.

• I had no luck in finding any of the Raspberry Pi models locally and I prefer to not order one ^[separately] from another country.
• I couldn't find a reasonably priced VPS plan for running a full node.
• I'm a bit paranoid about running Bitcoin Core on my desktop or laptop while using the same network connection.
  ^{- Can someone convince me that I should stop worrying about its potential risks?}

I agree with everybody that said it's overpriced but looks like we're forgetting about the normal ^{[for the most part]} markup percentages:

• While there is no set “ideal” markup percentage, most businesses set a 50 percent markup.
  Otherwise known as “keystone”,

Update:

So it looks like they are in India.

Thank you, Dave
^{- I only used certain keywords to search on that page with a CTRL + F [I didn't expect it to be from India, I'm impressed with its overall design].}

Most places seem to be out of stock on RPi units but all the places I looked at seem to have arrival dates of the next batch from early to mid October.
Give it a few weeks more due to the issues of shipping anything at the moment you should be able to have one in a month or so.

So that's why I couldn't find any of those locally ^{[I would probably wait for another month to see if I could get my hands on one of these]}.
^{- Again, thank you for providing useful information, I appreciate it}

[DaveF]

Does anybody know if this is another US-based company or not ^{[they haven't listed that information on their website]}?
- As a last resort, I might go with such a thing if it doesn't ship from the US.

• I had no luck in finding any of the Raspberry Pi models locally and I prefer to not order one ^[separately] from another country.
• I couldn't find a reasonably priced VPS plan for running a full node.
• I'm a bit paranoid about running Bitcoin Core on my desktop or laptop while using the same network connection.
  ^{- Can someone convince me that I should stop worrying about its potential risks?}

I agree with everybody that said it's overpriced but looks like we're forgetting about the normal ^{[for the most part]} markup percentages:

• While there is no set “ideal” markup percentage, most businesses set a 50 percent markup.
  Otherwise known as “keystone”,

From https://thebitcoinmachines.com/terms-and-conditions/

Applicable Law

By visiting thebitcoinmachines.com, you agree that the laws of India, under the jurisdiction of the Tamil Nadu High Court, without regard to principles of conflict of laws, will govern these Conditions of Use and any dispute of any sort that might arise between you and thebitcoinmachines.com or its affiliates.

Disputes

Any dispute relating in any way to your visit to thebitcoinmachines.com or to products you purchase through thebitcoinmachines.com shall be submitted to confidential arbitration in Tamil Nadu, India, except that, to the extent you have in any manner violated or threatened to violate DOIDO Technologies Private limited intellectual

So it looks like they are in India.

Where are you located? Most places seem to be out of stock on RPi units but all the places I looked at seem to have arrival dates of the next batch from early to mid October.
Give it a few weeks more due to the issues of shipping anything at the moment you should be able to have one in a month or so.

-Dave