Chinese loans leaves many countries in "hidden debts"

[palle11]

I think this came out a few years ago as something China has been doing quite a lot to countries (especially in Africa).

I've watched a video explaining this and yes, they're in many places in Africa. In fact, that video that I can no longer found says that the majority of the African countries have Chinese debt. I forgot the only one or few countries that don't have debt on China. And they're doing the same thing in many Asian countries. This is actually a trap for most countries that cannot pay their debts, it's like the newest version of invasion but through debt trap.

This is a plot to conquer the Asian countries and China is not staying back from this as a way to show that they also have the capacity to entice and subdue the government of less developed in Asia. Loan and military support are few ways that countries see themselves as inferior to others because hunger has no end if support don't come and these governments are asked to go for loans but with attachment underneath that in the future won't favour the debtors. In the past, it was majorly by dominating the people physically to rule over them but at the time now that has been exchanged to loans, financial and incentive to work or school .

[kryptqnick]

The Chinese Government is popular in handing out loans, especially to poorer countries, but recent research has it that it has left majority of this developing and underdeveloped countries in massive "hidden debts", see the excerpt below:

Chinese loans leave developing countries with $385 billion in hidden debts, study says

The Chinese belt and road initiative is a scheme designed by China to support developing countries by financing numerous projects in their country, but this scheme rather than actually aiding this countries, looks more like it makes them more and more indebted to China, see the excerpt below:

China currently spends at least twice as much on international development finance as the U.S. and other major economic powers, according to the AidData report — around $85 billion a year. However, this is often in the form of debt rather than aid,

It's an important topic and the one that the authorities of developing countries should research more. My country is considering strengthening relationship with China and taking loans from it rather than from the International Monetary Fund. Getting a loan from China is much easier because there's no need to fight corruption or implement certain finance-related legislation. But apart from the fact you've mentioned, this sort of money also obviously comes with political strings of not mentioning the atrocities that China commits with human rights. So you end up indebted to a strong authoritarian regime, and that's never a good thing.

[batang_bitcoin]

I think this came out a few years ago as something China has been doing quite a lot to countries (especially in Africa).

I've watched a video explaining this and yes, they're in many places in Africa. In fact, that video that I can no longer found says that the majority of the African countries have Chinese debt. I forgot the only one or few countries that don't have debt on China. And they're doing the same thing in many Asian countries. This is actually a trap for most countries that cannot pay their debts, it's like the newest version of invasion but through debt trap.

I remember they sold off their US bonds but only had $200bn. If they hold European debt or UK debt than it'll likely be paid back and not held on a threatening way - the EU has a vote every so often to eliminate the debts of the poorer countries, the UK just wants to feel wanted. The same goes for the countries I mentioned above - being unlikely to be indebted to China.

AFAIK, it was last year when they've sold US bonds those right? It's during the start of this pandemic. That's good way of handling debts by EU or UK.
Well unlike China, we know how they're granting all of these loans and they have some agenda that they see towards the country that they're allowing those loans.

[Kittygalore]

That's the plan, to drown those country in debts because they have an agreement that they're going to take a portion of the land if they don't pay the debt and it's not really a hidden debt but more like a debt trap, a trap because the money loaned has a condition that it can only be given if about 50% of the workers or contractors in the project is a Chinese company so the money just recirculates plus they don't interfere with your internal affairs, sweet deal compared to USA.

[EdenHazard]

The street has this story as their morning coffee topics for years now...

i just surprised that there is a lot of people still talking about this and feel surprised in 2021 .
talking about macro economy isnt that easy, you'll just looks like a conspiracy theories die hard fan tho.
so far so good, china just doing their thing to conquer the world, is that what are you trying to say?
well, just look around you and see where is that stuff made? 90% must be made in china, that is the realistic power they have.
not that one you talked about .. the topic are quiet hard to consumed.

[zanezane]

That's the plan, to drown those country in debts because they have an agreement that they're going to take a portion of the land if they don't pay the debt and it's not really a hidden debt but more like a debt trap, a trap because the money loaned has a condition that it can only be given if about 50% of the workers or contractors in the project is a Chinese company so the money just recirculates plus they don't interfere with your internal affairs, sweet deal compared to USA.

I think I've heard of this debt trap before,iirc it's probably from one of those 1 minute videos by Nas Daily, they did cover this topic although I didn't finish it because it's social media, you're supposed to be mindlessly scrolling through.

[Coyster]

Yes, China is very bad, but what about the borrowers?

Obviously the borrowers cannot be excused of any blame, the thing is, majority of this 'debtor countries' are all run by corrupt governments, and I believe China are fully aware of this fact, this loans more often than not wouldn't be utilized completely for the good of the country, meaning some individuals would be personally pocketing chunks of this money, at the end of the day, the loans wouldn't have provided any visible development and it becomes somewhat impossible for them to pay back. It is at this stage the Chinese government thus exploits the country the way they decide due to their inability to pay back the loan.

[el kaka22]

Why is it "hidden"? That's the part I was wondering. Was it not given as a loan? Was it given as a gift and then asked back? I hate China as much as the next guy but it was always obvious that they were giving loans.

They are doing it even in my nation, they are building a road, they didn't ask for any money at all, and they just built the road, it is a very tiny job and nothing that important but it was foot in the door situation for them, god knows how big they may get in the future, but that road was done without paying them anything, and they just requested the income from that road, that's it.

They are basically doing stuff to improve nations and then get the income from those improvements, which is a business. Hate china all you want for their inhuman conditions and discrimination, and even concentration camps for Uyghur Muslims in their nation, and dictatorship and iron fist ruling and all that but when it comes to business, if China doesn't do it, some other nation does. Certainly better than USA's way of "bombing for democracy bringing" method to foreign nations.

[suzanne5223]

the Chinese government never forces any of the developing countries to ask for assistance and I believe they understand very well what the deal is involved.
Why did still go for it? It means the government of the developing countries that require this loan also profit from the loan they got from the Chinese.

The Chinese belt and road initiative is designed to help/provide assistance for other countries, and the Chinese government knows fully well that most of this countries are actually in need of these loans, thus I find it extremely petty that the Chinese government have ulterior motives to put their borrowers into a debt trap and either tap from their resources or just basically out of lack of choice get their support in economic and political matters, it doesn't matter if they actually benefitted from the loan, but it's the concealed intention behind giving out the loan in the first place that's the bigger problem.

From my own view, I don't see it extremely petty that the Chinese government gives out loans to a certain developing country without doing a proper investigation about the weekly or possible earning of the environs that want to be constructed before granting a single loan. To me, this is simply an idea of debt trap.

[Oceat]

the Chinese government never forces any of the developing countries to ask for assistance and I believe they understand very well what the deal is involved.
Why did still go for it? It means the government of the developing countries that require this loan also profit from the loan they got from the Chinese.

The Chinese belt and road initiative is designed to help/provide assistance for other countries, and the Chinese government knows fully well that most of this countries are actually in need of these loans, thus I find it extremely petty that the Chinese government have ulterior motives to put their borrowers into a debt trap and either tap from their resources or just basically out of lack of choice get their support in economic and political matters, it doesn't matter if they actually benefitted from the loan, but it's the concealed intention behind giving out the loan in the first place that's the bigger problem.

From my own view, I don't see it extremely petty that the Chinese government gives out loans to a certain developing country without doing a proper investigation about the weekly or possible earning of the environs that want to be constructed before granting a single loan. To me, this is simply an idea of debt trap.

Yes it is because China knew how their government would work out if the government of the other countries is a corrupt leader then this is probably going to help them easily to invade/conquer most of the country by staying them in a debt trap. This was actually an old news but China have been doing this to other underdeveloped countries and most of these country's leader/government doesn't know what their(China) scheme aside from aiding. If the time comes when it's time to pay for what they owed to them, then it's too late when their government knew what was going on.

[jaysabi]

I think this came out a few years ago as something China has been doing quite a lot to countries (especially in Africa).

It's been seen as a potential to be a strategy for invading/controlling countries, however it might just be a line between that and keeping countries in favour of them (to do things like not impose trade sanctions on China).

China has been playing the long game for decades, and this is just another chapter in it.  They're attempting to remake the world financial order by developing the satellite economies that will be tightly aligned and reliant on China, as a counterweight to the US-dominated financial system that the US has used to its geopolitical advantage for the last hundred years.

[Sithara007]

China has been playing the long game for decades, and this is just another chapter in it.  They're attempting to remake the world financial order by developing the satellite economies that will be tightly aligned and reliant on China, as a counterweight to the US-dominated financial system that the US has used to its geopolitical advantage for the last hundred years.

China is just doing what the colonial powers have been doing since the mid 20th century, when the former colonies got their independence. These newly independent countries need investment and China has been able to provide that at rates and terms which are much more attractive when compared to those offered by the western countries. Americans and Europeans are complaining, just because they can't get access to the natural resources from these countries at dirt cheap rates, like they did before.

[Ausgewielt]

This is one of many reasons why I don't like loan with interest rate. I prefer like to use crowdfunding like we usually do in ICO. I think crowdfunding is better then only lend money. Crowdfunding that companies did in ICO not only lift some weight from the company but also gives big profit if the project is succes. Just imagine if those countries do crowfunding using cryptocurrency and every that cryptocurrency holders will get benefit from the project that the governments make. Anyone can get easy money fron loans but the impact is very bad.

[Kong Hey Pakboy]

Anything coming out of China willl be lies and deceit. I wouldn't trust a chinese with anything. They would rather "save face" than alert the world of a extremely contagious virus that kills 2-3% of the infected population. They even lie to their own people, even if it costs them their lives. They massacre falon gong practicioners based on a lie and they commit genocide on the Uigyurs also based on lies. Never trust China. China will be the end of the world.

Technically true especially with the government being in control on almost any aspect of China and their affairs inside and outside the country, to be honest, I think that we should get used to it, they will lie and deceive because they know that they can bully people because they have the money, power and influence to be able to do this kind of stuff in the first place.

[CryptopreneurBrainboss]

This is one of many reasons why I don't like loan with interest rate. I prefer like to use crowdfunding like we usually do in ICO. I think crowdfunding is better then only lend money. Crowdfunding that companies did in ICO not only lift some weight from the company but also gives big profit if the project is succes. Just imagine if those countries do crowfunding using cryptocurrency and every that cryptocurrency holders will get benefit from the project that the governments make. Anyone can get easy money fron loans but the impact is very bad.

I'm trying to understand how this will profit the investors, the money raised will be used for projects in the country so what does the investors get? Same without tokens majority of the project that did crowdfunding are producing today. Majority of the countries taking this loans aren't using it for productive things which is why they're getting indebted. Imagine a country borrowing money to pay her workers and still this workers don't get paid fully due to corruption.

If this loans were taken and invested into structures that'll be bringing in revenue to the country economy and sure the loans could easily be paid off but no the corruption in this developing country is what is weighing them down. There's no gain in borrowing to eat instead you get indebted more and that's what's happening.

[Coyster]

It's not hidden debts, both countries that participates in the loan are aware of them and the disadvantaged one knows that they're going in a bad debt but they still go in because they're blinded by progress.

I don't think you read the link to the source in the op, these debts aren't called hidden cause the both parties are unaware, but because of the method and terms of handing out the loans which makes it difficult to report or to record, thus many of this sort of Chinese loans goes unreported to the rest of the world and also to agencies in charge of reporting and keeping track of such loans like the 'World banks debtor reporting system".

Researchers found that these nations’ debt obligations to China are significantly larger than international research institutions, credit ratings agencies or intergovernmental organizations estimate

[suzanne5223]

the Chinese government never forces any of the developing countries to ask for assistance and I believe they understand very well what the deal is involved.
Why did still go for it? It means the government of the developing countries that require this loan also profit from the loan they got from the Chinese.

The Chinese belt and road initiative is designed to help/provide assistance for other countries, and the Chinese government knows fully well that most of this countries are actually in need of these loans, thus I find it extremely petty that the Chinese government have ulterior motives to put their borrowers into a debt trap and either tap from their resources or just basically out of lack of choice get their support in economic and political matters, it doesn't matter if they actually benefitted from the loan, but it's the concealed intention behind giving out the loan in the first place that's the bigger problem.

From my own view, I don't see it extremely petty that the Chinese government gives out loans to a certain developing country without doing a proper investigation about the weekly or possible earning of the environs that want to be constructed before granting a single loan. To me, this is simply an idea of debt trap.

Yes it is because China knew how their government would work out if the government of the other countries is a corrupt leader then this is probably going to help them easily to invade/conquer most of the country by staying them in a debt trap. This was actually an old news but China have been doing this to other underdeveloped countries and most of these country's leader/government doesn't know what their(China) scheme aside from aiding. If the time comes when it's time to pay for what they owed to them, then it's too late when their government knew what was going on.

The government of the underdeveloped countries is fooled, they have seen the actions took by the Chinese and they have read about loan construction contracts provided by the Chinese government before.
if they still continue to acquire the same loan that put some previous developing or underdeveloped countries it means they are doing it to steal the country's money.
No government will do that if he/she not going to profit from it.

It's not hidden debts, both countries that participates in the loan are aware of them and the disadvantaged one knows that they're going in a bad debt but they still go in because they're blinded by progress.

However, it is still categorized as hidden debt because some of the loans are not required through the directive of the central government institutions.

[jaysabi]

China has been playing the long game for decades, and this is just another chapter in it.  They're attempting to remake the world financial order by developing the satellite economies that will be tightly aligned and reliant on China, as a counterweight to the US-dominated financial system that the US has used to its geopolitical advantage for the last hundred years.

China is just doing what the colonial powers have been doing since the mid 20th century, when the former colonies got their independence. These newly independent countries need investment and China has been able to provide that at rates and terms which are much more attractive when compared to those offered by the western countries. Americans and Europeans are complaining, just because they can't get access to the natural resources from these countries at dirt cheap rates, like they did before.

Most likely because the actors in China are state-controlled and imperialism isn't really a thing in the west anymore (compared to how it used to be) and the services are profit-driven by private enterprise.  China can afford to undercut them because it's not actually about profit for them, it's about exerting control on their new "satellites" and reordering the global balance of power.  Western actors are driven by profit motive and won't engage in contracts that aren't profitable, so China is able to completely undercut them and win the contracts.

[Davidvictorson]

The Chinese Government is popular in handing out loans, especially to poorer countries, but recent research has it that it has left majority of this developing and underdeveloped countries in massive "hidden debts", see the excerpt below:

Chinese loans leave developing countries with $385 billion in hidden debts, study says

The Chinese belt and road initiative is a scheme designed by China to support developing countries by financing numerous projects in their country, but this scheme rather than actually aiding this countries, looks more like it makes them more and more indebted to China, see the excerpt below:

China currently spends at least twice as much on international development finance as the U.S. and other major economic powers, according to the AidData report — around $85 billion a year. However, this is often in the form of debt rather than aid,

Another flashpoint of the belt and road initiative is that majority of this loans isn't directed to institutions owned by the Central government of the borrowing country, but to state-owned establishments, private organizations etc, but all with the consent of the central government that can jump in to bail out companies that prolly can't repay the loans, thus by extension, many of this debts go underreported, but this countries are actually in greater debt to China than most of the world actually knows, see the excerpt below:

These debts are systematically underreported to the World Bank’s Debtor Reporting System (DRS) because, in many cases, central government institutions in LMICs [lower- and middle-income countries] are not the primary borrowers responsible for repayment, the report said.

Having said all these, is this a way that the Chinese government intends to keep many countries of the world indebted to them through this debt trap, knowing fully well that most of them would falter in repaying the loan leaving the Chinese government no other option but to seize some of their assets, I see this to be amongst China's plan towards being the country with the best economy in the world in some years to come, and just as is typical with the dictatorial Chinese government, they want to be the only ones at the advantage, leaving others at the receiving end.

Here is the source of the news for better understanding: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/30/study-chinese-loans-leave-developing-countries-with-385-billion-in-hidden-debts.html

In my own opinion, I would never blame the Chinese. I would rather blame the "borrowing nations". Just as you have rightly stated some of these funds end up in the pockets of private organizations and very highly corrupt government officials. Come to think of it, countries who always run to China to borrow are mostly blessed with both natural and human resources in the world yet because of poor leadership and corruption they refuse to invest in their nation. Most of these funds are never used to build industries or develop their economy. If it actually were, then they would be off debt in no time. It such a pity and a shame.

[add1ct3dd]

Having said all these, is this a way that the Chinese government intends to keep many countries of the world indebted to them through this debt trap, knowing fully well that most of them would falter in repaying the loan leaving the Chinese government no other option but to seize some of their assets, I see this to be amongst China's plan towards being the country with the best economy in the world in some years to come, and just as is typical with the dictatorial Chinese government, they want to be the only ones at the advantage, leaving others at the receiving end.

I just don’t get what’s their motive behind all these borrowing of money to developing countries. Seems to me like they are just trying to render these countries useless by continuing to put them in debts that they can never be able to crawl out from, which is very bad. And knowing very well that all these developing countries are filled with corrupt leaders who are only good at extorting money from the country’s wallet, there is no hope that they are going to be able to pay back all these money that they have borrowed from the Chinese government.