Does the Dark Side of the Art Industry Foretell NFTs Future

[Hydrogen]

The Art Market is a Scam (And Rich People Run It)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ3F3zWiEmc


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This is a really good, detail oriented, overview of the modern day art industry for a 20 minute watch. Its information and data heavy with both good and relevant statistics.

There are good points made about the art industry remaining unregulated despite some art pieces being valued and sold in the $400 million dollar range. Good points made about the modern art industry being extremely centralized within only 3 nations. Good points made about art lacking intrinsic value. And good points made about organizations like the IRS largely ignoring the art industry.

All current trends in modern day art could illustrate what the future holds for NFTs. While NFTs are relatively new, it may be possible to predict exactly what the future NFT market will resemble, simply by comparing it to modern day analogues like art and collectibles which have many years of history behind them.

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[Darker45]

First off, what the video talks about is simply a single aspect of the art market. So it is rather unfair to call the entire art market a scam. The video is particularly referring to a very small yet very influential portion of the market. Influential not necessarily because the artworks auctioned are highly venerated works of genius artists but because they are very expensive. Expensive, again, not necessarily because of the artworks themselves but because of the people and the companies involved. It is therefore an art market sans the art. That's probably what happens when crazy, rich, vain elites are the main players. They badly need to appear sophisticated.

I don't think the corrupt side of the modern art market has already reached the NFT market. I don't think we can discuss about the same art donation ploy, tax evasion, money laundering, and the likes within the NFT market. What is already reaching the NFT market very early on is the ludicrous price tags. But that's normal when crazy rich elites join the game. They always tend to show off. They have that unquenchable thirst.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Good points made about the modern art industry being extremely centralized within only 3 nations.

Who cares?

Good points made about art lacking intrinsic value.

Who cares?

And good points made about organizations like the IRS largely ignoring the art industry.

Also, who cares?  Plus the documentary did mention that the IRS does audit art donated for the purpose of tax write-offs, though only a small percentage of them get audited.  But what do you expect?  The art market is relatively small (which the video states right in the beginning), and there's not a government agency in the US that audits every single transaction or company that's within their purview.  

Here's my impression of that video:  It's made by a professional Youtuber looking to create a "This is an outrage!" type of video, though he's not exactly screaming into his microphone.  He's probably another one of these zoomer/millenial Youtubers so common on that site who think they've stumbled upon something that no one else knows, while in reality he's just telling people what's been known for many years.  

The art market is small; caters to wealthy people; there are only a few auction houses; value is in the eye of the beholder; there's possible corruption (though the video creator doesn't provide a good argument that it's significant); centralization, life is unfair, blah blah blah.  So what's new?  And who benefits from a video like this?  The guy who made it.  And that's why he made it, because he wants to be a Youtuber instead of doing something to really help people (though that's an assumption on my part that this is the only thing he does for a living, but I see these professional Youtubers a lot and it's not unreasonable).

Oh yeah, video sponsored by CuriosityStream.

[Hydrogen]

Is it fair to say, the youtube clip posted in OP does the best job putting the future NFT market into perspective, out of anything that anyone has seen so far? If people have seen better content posted on the future of NFTs anywhere, I would like to see it.

If anyone is unhappy with post in OP. What type of content would they prefer to see posted. I can try to shift to topics people are more enthusiastic about.

Give me examples of what you think good crypto content is.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

If anyone is unhappy with post in OP. What type of content would they prefer to see posted. I can try to shift to topics people are more enthusiastic about.

Hydrogen, I actually appreciated the link to the video.  Even though I didn't like the insinuations or conclusion, I did find aspects of it interesting at least.  I know very little about the art market, and I did watch the whole video (unlike many that other members post links to).

NFTs are a form of art, but a digital one, and I find it absolutely crazy that some people are paying astronomical prices for some of them.  That video maker mentioned that art has no intrinsic value (and he's correct), but usually expensive art pieces have some kind of history behind them that makes the art valuable in the eyes of those wealthy people who buy them.  Whether an artist is dead, under what circumstances the piece was made, the age of it, etc., are all important factors.

But NFTs?  You can't even hang them on your wall unless you print them out or have a digital screen to display them....and they're not physical.  That's what gets me.  Who collects digital anything, even if there's only one of them?  It's certainly a new concept, but it's one that I don't think will stand the test of time.

[dothebeats]

Most of us here already know that the art industry is just a hub for the wealthy elites to exchange collections that they think is priceless and of value. I wouldn't say though that the art industry as a whole is corrupt as was portrayed in the video. Only those on the uber-extravagant side of it has that corruption the video describes, but the rest of it remains pretty neutral, and is unfortunately deprived of the attention that they deserve.

I believe that some of the corruption exhibited on the elite side of the art industry already exists within the NFT art market. It's not surprising at all, considering that crypto in general is still considered as good vehicles for such activities anyway, though of course people will turn a blind eye on the art industry and will focus more on NFTs because it's crypto and cryptos = bad.

And of course, who the hell pays millions on digital artworks that can easily be reproduced anyway? You can say that NFT art is protected by the blockchain, or that you 'own' that thing, but I don't really see the point of owning them at all.

But NFTs?  You can't even hang them on your wall unless you print them out or have a digital screen to display them....and they're not physical.  That's what gets me.  Who collects digital anything, even if there's only one of them?  It's certainly a new concept, but it's one that I don't think will stand the test of time.

But at the least you have some pretty cool looking pixels displayed on your screen which you can place on your socials or websites

[hugeblack]

Frankly, I do not think that NFT tokens can add to any value to Art Industry. In the end, it requires that there be a rich person who is willing to pay money to buy something that only himself knows its value.
In other words, I do not see that such pixels deserve to be paid for in dollars, let alone cryptos.

When there is regulation and taxation of matters, tokens may add to the transparency of the art market.

Generally, if digital art gains a place, NFT tokens will be the primary market for buying and selling.

[so98nn]

I think I have made many comments on the NFT and how they are actually helping the wealthy peeps to launder their money. Though no conclusive proof have been found for this one, then also one can simply tell, rich peeps were using the art exchanges since very long under the name of perseverance and what not so that they can smoothly launder the money and show government a token of favour. This way they can also exempt the taxation for the particular value. They know very well they get to keep rare form of the art which can be easily auctioned out after few years by gaining capital on the same.

Some of them are also into art restoration and donate heavily for this particular thing. I think slowly NFT's will be best home to all riches so that they can also make this transaction more confident and save more money by hiding the tax.

Might look broad to read this but I think that's what NFT's will actually do. No one care if they own a art or not, all they want is good price in exchange!

[Beparanf]

I think I have made many comments on the NFT and how they are actually helping the wealthy peeps to launder their money. Though no conclusive proof have been found for this one, then also one can simply tell, rich peeps were using the art exchanges since very long under the name of perseverance and what not so that they can smoothly launder the money and show government a token of favour. This way they can also exempt the taxation for the particular value. They know very well they get to keep rare form of the art which can be easily auctioned out after few years by gaining capital on the same.

Some of them are also into art restoration and donate heavily for this particular thing. I think slowly NFT's will be best home to all riches so that they can also make this transaction more confident and save more money by hiding the tax.

Might look broad to read this but I think that's what NFT's will actually do. No one care if they own a art or not, all they want is good price in exchange!

I think it's impossible to find a proof for any money laundering on unregulated market of NFT industry unless they admit themselves or the marketplace requires KYC tomall user. I think I read about your thread about an expensive NFT bought by a random user without any further ado.

I read an article about big scam group using NFT to steal people money, They will pump the value of the NFT they target by buying and selling themselves then abandon then dumping all there NFT once people FOMO and buy it. This is the only I see that might give negative impact in the long run for NFT since NFT value is determined via speculation while fake price pump is free on current marketplace.

[darewaller]

There has been a lot of talk about how the art world was just a way to wash the dirty money that they have. That way they would basically just pay millions of dollars for stuff that they would pay with the dirty money they have.

It is a marvelous method of doing money laundering and this was true while the art was something physical as well, this was going around for a long time and people are not understanding the differences right now we are in the NFT world. Why? Because, there are regular people spending thousands of dollars into stuff that makes no sense at all, and there are people who are doing money laundering on NFT as well by doing the exact the same thing. How could you understand the difference when regular people are making investment wrongly as well? We are in a weird world right now and it will take some time before we understand the difference.

[24Kt]

There has been a lot of talk about how the art world was just a way to wash the dirty money that they have. That way they would basically just pay millions of dollars for stuff that they would pay with the dirty money they have.

It is a marvelous method of doing money laundering and this was true while the art was something physical as well, this was going around for a long time and people are not understanding the differences right now we are in the NFT world. Why? Because, there are regular people spending thousands of dollars into stuff that makes no sense at all, and there are people who are doing money laundering on NFT as well by doing the exact the same thing. How could you understand the difference when regular people are making investment wrongly as well? We are in a weird world right now and it will take some time before we understand the difference.

I believe, we will not avoid this from happening as there are people that will find this new NFT industry as very good option to hide their money. But how? Maybe, they need to make arrangements with the seller. Or better yet, they can create their own account, and buy their own art. We don't know the identities of these sellers. So basically, right now, a seller has the freedom to dictate the price of his NFT, even if it is a crap. So we don't know what is the real value of an NFT item. If this NFT industry will be penetrated by money launderers, then, I can say it is very possible. And I don't think we can escape from this reality.

[hatshepsut93]

IMO NFT is way worse than art market, because art actually can have a legitimate value and it's always an item that you actually own, but with NFT you only own a digital token and someone said it represents something, but in most cases there's actually no way to enforce your ownership. Like how Dorsey sold the first tweet as NFT - where's guarantee that he will not delete or edit it? Without government's legal recognition of NFT they are nothing more than pinky promises.

[2double0]

IMO NFT is way worse than art market, because art actually can have a legitimate value and it's always an item that you actually own, but with NFT you only own a digital token and someone said it represents something, but in most cases there's actually no way to enforce your ownership. Like how Dorsey sold the first tweet as NFT - where's guarantee that he will not delete or edit it? Without government's legal recognition of NFT they are nothing more than pinky promises.

A coin has two sides, so let me flip it to the other side.
You said NFTs are worst. I'm not a fan of NFT industry, but let me tell you some facts about NFTs:

NFTs are digital artwork and yes, it's true that there is no guarantee about anything here, but there are mints which are evidence that you are the owner.

NFTs have various use cases, one of which is gaming and it has added a lot of value to this industry because players wanted to earn while playing games and this gave them an opportunity.

NFTs made enough money to a set of poor and middle class people and has the ability to grow more.

NFTs have given freedom to gamers to choose whether they want to play with them, upgrade them, stake them or sell them.

Does the modern art industry provide these features? Like Op determined, it is only for the riches and they are using that industry to make huge profits which are out of poor and middle class' reach. These rich guys have not yet looked into NFT markets, else you may also see them manipulating this market for their own monetary benefits.

[wxa7115]

The Art Market is a Scam (And Rich People Run It)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ3F3zWiEmc


....


This is a really good, detail oriented, overview of the modern day art industry for a 20 minute watch. Its information and data heavy with both good and relevant statistics.

There are good points made about the art industry remaining unregulated despite some art pieces being valued and sold in the $400 million dollar range. Good points made about the modern art industry being extremely centralized within only 3 nations. Good points made about art lacking intrinsic value. And good points made about organizations like the IRS largely ignoring the art industry.

All current trends in modern day art could illustrate what the future holds for NFTs. While NFTs are relatively new, it may be possible to predict exactly what the future NFT market will resemble, simply by comparing it to modern day analogues like art and collectibles which have many years of history behind them.

We all know that when it comes to art and collectibles the prices are artificially inflated, however I am not so sure we will reach the level of what we see in the art industry unless we begin to see some masters of the level of Picasso or similar selling digital art.

At most we will see what we see with collectibles, and it is doubtful we will get to that point as even if someone can declare they own the original copy of a digital file we need to wonder why should they care? When anyone can download the same image for free and obtain the same level of enjoyment without spending a single dollar.

[hatshepsut93]

NFTs have various use cases, one of which is gaming and it has added a lot of value to this industry because players wanted to earn while playing games and this gave them an opportunity.

Gamers don't want to earn money from games, they want to play them and have fun, and they are ready to pay big money for that. The only ones who want to earn are people from third world countries who are ready to jump at any opportunity.

NFTs made enough money to a set of poor and middle class people and has the ability to grow more.

Most of the people who profited from NFT were already rich, either it's the famous artists or rich investors/speculators.

These rich guys have not yet looked into NFT markets, else you may also see them manipulating this market for their own monetary benefits.

That's exactly what's happening, rich people make fake buys of NFTs, hoping that another rich sucker will buy it at an inflated price.

[cryptoperkele]

First off, what the video talks about is simply a single aspect of the art market. So it is rather unfair to call the entire art market a scam. The video is particularly referring to a very small yet very influential portion of the market. Influential not necessarily because the artworks auctioned are highly venerated works of genius artists but because they are very expensive. Expensive, again, not necessarily because of the artworks themselves but because of the people and the companies involved. It is therefore an art market sans the art. That's probably what happens when crazy, rich, vain elites are the main players. They badly need to appear sophisticated.

I don't think the corrupt side of the modern art market has already reached the NFT market. I don't think we can discuss about the same art donation ploy, tax evasion, money laundering, and the likes within the NFT market. What is already reaching the NFT market very early on is the ludicrous price tags. But that's normal when crazy rich elites join the game. They always tend to show off. They have that unquenchable thirst.

I agree that you can't just call the whole art market as a scam, but what comes to corrupt side of NFTs, it's just obvious imho. There are a LOT of people that have shady history when it comes to source of their cryptocurrencies, and especially now if FATF travel rule comes into action, the source of that money needs to be documented.

What would be better way to wash your money then make "art" and buy it from yourself.

"No your honor, i didn't make my millions with drugs or with ico scams, i drew thise stoner frogs with my left hand and sold them with millions"

Things like this make sense when you think about it as money loundering:
https://twitter.com/etherrockprice/status/1429908317015445509

[davis196]

This is completely true.A piece of garbage might cost millions of dollars,only because it is considered 'art' or some 'artist' created it.I want to become an artist as well and I want to sell BS paintings for ridiculous amounts of money.Unfortunately,I will have to die,so the cost of my paintings could rise,due to the scarcity.  
Selling overrated shit,just because the overrated shit is scarce...
This might seem unfair,but this is how capitalism works.Supply and demand.Limited supply and big demand leads to a high price.The object being sold doesn't matter,as long as there is demand for that object,and the supply of that object is extremely limited.
The sellers on the NFT market really want to exploit that side of capitalism/market economy.

[wxa7115]

This is completely true.A piece of garbage might cost millions of dollars,only because it is considered 'art' or some 'artist' created it.I want to become an artist as well and I want to sell BS paintings for ridiculous amounts of money.Unfortunately,I will have to die,so the cost of my paintings could rise,due to the scarcity.  
Selling overrated shit,just because the overrated shit is scarce...
This might seem unfair,but this is how capitalism works.Supply and demand.Limited supply and big demand leads to a high price.The object being sold doesn't matter,as long as there is demand for that object,and the supply of that object is extremely limited.
The sellers on the NFT market really want to exploit that side of capitalism/market economy.

Unfortunately very few people can do this, great masters can sell even their worst works for a lot of money because they have work behind them that prove that they are that great and as such they can sell almost anything, even that ugly work can sell because people want to have an example of bad art coming from the artist and some may even find beauty in it.

Unfortunately this is not possible for the average person, or at least it should not be possible, because they do not have the works that demonstrate their greatness and as such even if whatever you produce is limited it will have no value as there is no demand for it.

[TimeTeller]

This is completely true.A piece of garbage might cost millions of dollars,only because it is considered 'art' or some 'artist' created it.I want to become an artist as well and I want to sell BS paintings for ridiculous amounts of money.Unfortunately,I will have to die,so the cost of my paintings could rise,due to the scarcity.  
Selling overrated shit,just because the overrated shit is scarce...
This might seem unfair,but this is how capitalism works.Supply and demand.Limited supply and big demand leads to a high price.The object being sold doesn't matter,as long as there is demand for that object,and the supply of that object is extremely limited.
The sellers on the NFT market really want to exploit that side of capitalism/market economy.

Unfortunately very few people can do this, great masters can sell even their worst works for a lot of money because they have work behind them that prove that they are that great and as such they can sell almost anything, even that ugly work can sell because people want to have an example of bad art coming from the artist and some may even find beauty in it.

Unfortunately this is not possible for the average person, or at least it should not be possible, because they do not have the works that demonstrate their greatness and as such even if whatever you produce is limited it will have no value as there is no demand for it.

This is the reality that we really need to face. So it is up to you how will you be a victim of this dilemma.
Maybe, just buy what you can consider a valuable item in your standard. Because each one of us has different outlook on artworks.
We also have different preferences in terms of what form of art you are into like modernism, impressionism, abstract art and many others.
So if you can see the art as a "garbage", some may see it as a valuable piece of abstract art.
But if you feel that the art is just done by like a toddler, why waste your money for something that may be piece of trash in the future?

[paxmao]

The art market is full of scam, because nowadays is quite difficult to tell what is really conceptual and well conceived art, that responds to a trajectory of an artist, versus something made just for money-grab.

This is an artwork that is currently at the Royal Academy of Arts in London - in fact is the catalogue's front page:



Only people who are in the know can tell this from a more or less funny Carnival dress. The field is open with NFT or any other form of encapsulating art.