The Economic Gap has Exceeded the Tolerance Limit

[Cnut237]

It is clear to me that socialism does work, just in small doses. Does France have McDonalds? starbucks? Sure they do, they are semi-capitalist that way, but they have free education and healthcare as well along with it. Just because you have one doesn't mean you suddenly become USSR.

Yes, you are perfectly correct. There is a huge gulf between Russian communism and European-style democratic socialism (which after all exists in a capitalist framework). This should be perfectly obvious to everyone, and yet it's not. Any new policy idea — particularly in the US — that is even vaguely left-of-centre is immediately decried by those in power and their acolytes as communist. The strategy is simplistic and moronic, but it gets stupid people riled up, which is of course the intention. See for example the hysteria over something as inoffensive as ObamaCare.

[paxmao]

It is clear to me that socialism does work, just in small doses. Does France have McDonalds? starbucks? Sure they do, they are semi-capitalist that way, but they have free education and healthcare as well along with it. Just because you have one doesn't mean you suddenly become USSR.

Yes, you are perfectly correct. There is a huge gulf between Russian communism and European-style democratic socialism (which after all exists in a capitalist framework). This should be perfectly obvious to everyone, and yet it's not. Any new policy idea — particularly in the US — that is even vaguely left-of-centre is immediately decried by those in power and their acolytes as communist. The strategy is simplistic and moronic, but it gets stupid people riled up, which is of course the intention. See for example the hysteria over something as inoffensive as ObamaCare.
...

Obamacare seems like something that is already out of the box and natural for most countries. Even the UK, not a major suspect of socialism, has a Social Security system built decades ago (1948 or so) and provides free care.

Let's face it, the health care business is huge in the US and many people consider that each individual should care for him/herself. There is not a culture of a state caring for the citizens, whereas in Europe the culture is opposite. The arguments used by the HC sector are:

- The HC will be shit. Huge queues, poor attention, people not getting treatment...
- The doctors want to keep making huge $$$ (some of them). A free HC means that you will pay less and will probably need to form more doctors.
- The insurance companies are simply scared to death. It is their business to get paid for HC (and deny claims as much as they can). They threaten with rising the premiums.
- In general, there are many people that do not consider that HC is a right, and everyone is to care for their own.

[SquallLeonhart]

Do you think it's fair? If only the 22 richest individuals in the world had more money than the 3.8 billion people who are currently in business? Well about 22 people have more money saved abroad than the total population of China, United States and India combined?

Well, I think you also have to know that all these people you see as rich people also came from nothing to something. they were once poor as well and they had to work really hard for them to reach the level they are at now. So you should read their history and understand more about them. I don’t think it’s right to persecute them just because they’re rich, they came up with ideas and their ideas were good enough to make them money that will last them for their lifetime, and these people are people that invented a lot of things that are helpful to us in one way or the other.

This is not something that really bothers me at all, I think it’s best that everyone focus on themselves and work hard to take care of their family. And if you have more than enough, then it wouldn’t be bad to support people who are poor and doesn’t have.

[AicecreaME]

Do you think it's fair? If only the 22 richest individuals in the world had more money than the 3.8 billion people who are currently in business? Well about 22 people have more money saved abroad than the total population of China, United States and India combined?

Let's take a look at Elon Musk, Jeff Bejoz, Bernard Arnold and Family, Bill gates etc. Their income within 1 or 2 weeks is equivalent to the income needed by the United Nations Organization to provide humanitarian aid in Yemen, Ethiopia, South Sudan etc, all of which are experiencing a hunger crisis. with 0.00000005% of their wealth, it will provide a decent life for 1 family who can eat 3 times a day for the next 100 years.

Do you think this kind of reality is fair? As it should be, economic disparities can actually be resolved, because look at the economic disparities in the world which have greatly exceeded the tolerance limit.
What can we as democratic citizens do to demand global governments stop giving excessive tax breaks to multinational corporations from the world's richest people? Or can we just watch this reality from day to day? When we don't have any influence reviewing the chest is something I often do.
Look at them just laughing:

"There's a class war, alright, but it's my class, the rich class, that makes war, and we won." – Warren Buffett.

Share your thoughts here  

Reading sources and things I use as a reference for reading and drawing conclusions (I use a translation because it's not my native language):
https://longreads.tni.org/paying-for-just-transition##_proposals
https://sdgs.un.org/goals
https://www.forbes.com/real-time-billionaires/#57b829293d78
https://longreads.tni.org/paying-for-just-transition#_edn30
https://www.oxfam.org/en/5-shocking-facts-about-extreme-global-inequality-and-how-even-it

Note: If there's a referral source I'm missing, please let me know.

The truth is, life is never fair. It never was. It never will be. And we just have to accept and get used to that kind of reality.

The multi-billionaires made their way to the top because they have the skills, strategies, and resources that could help them. Despite having the rags-to-riches story, most of them acquire their wealth by using capitalistic mindset. Whenever these people have the opportunity, they make sure to grab into it no matter how it will be viewed from other people's perspective.

It really is unfair knowing that there are these people who are billionaires while other people are suffering on the other parts of the world. They hoard wealth they can't even spend in their lifetime, while others can barely survive each day. However, we can do nothing about it since it is their lives and wealth after all. We cannot dictate them to feed the poor and end the hunger when they don't want to. We have different values, beliefs, and principles. Not everyone has the same empathy, compassion, and consideration that we have  As much as bad as it may seem, they do continuosly generate wealth not just only for themselves but for their future bloodline as well. Inheritance is what's usually passed down that continues the legacy of the ancestors.

Also, it is the government's duty to bring opportunities to the poor so that they could stand on their own. It is their job to eradicate poverty as much as they can. They are being paid by the citizen's taxes to make the country a better place to live in. However, instead of doing their very own job, some government officials tend to prioritize their personal agendas over what the public needs. Hence we cant really blame the rich totally because the problem lies also to the government. Both plays a role.

[maju69]

But all that has happened, even the wealth they get and the poverty they experience is the result of what they do. Indeed, no one is born at the finish line. All also reached the highest point as a result of hard work in a long time.
Maybe it's true if they don't donate their money, or without our knowledge that there is always help flowing without the media knowing.
The problem of inequality that is happening now, I can't say anything because basically the government has been assigned to be the representative of the people and fight for the rights of the people whose welfare is demanded. It's all just a dream, nothing is really holy when everyone gets a lot of money in sight.

[wxa7115]

I understand your frustration and fully agree with you, its not fair. There is no real argument why any one person needs more than 1 bn USD. How can you spend such kind of money in a lifetime? I wish we as ordinary humans could do something, unfortunately it's not realistic at the moment. In my opinion society is not ready to make policies on a global level. When it comes to Super rich we can't just change the laws in one country. Let's say in USA, China or Europe we would create a wealth tax of 25% above 10 million net worth, then the rich would just find ways to circumvent the law. First of all rich people like to put their money in trust and not in their personal names. So it becomes hard to proof that one person owns all that money. And we still have plenty of tax havens in the world. As long as small countries compete against each other to attract the most rich people in the world it is not going up work. Also the most trastic way is for the super rich to get out of some form of wealth redistribution would be to return their passport and become a citizen of a different country.

But that is the issue, what gives you or anyone else the right to appropriate of 25%, 30% or even a single dollar from another person? Capitalism is based on the principle of private property, if someone else can just come to my house and grab whatever they want just because they need it and they have the protection of the law then I do not have any reason to buy the same item as it is going to be stolen again, this destroys the economy as no one will be interested in producing anything and will instead want to steal as it will be faster than producing something on our own.

This is why private property is protected in any true capitalist system, you give some of your income to a central authority in the form of taxes in order to maintain society, but you can keep most of the products of your labor and build your wealth over the years, if this cannot be done any economy no matter how strong it is thought to be will collapse.

[RealMalatesta]

Obamacare seems like something that is already out of the box and natural for most countries. Even the UK, not a major suspect of socialism, has a Social Security system built decades ago (1948 or so) and provides free care.

Let's face it, the health care business is huge in the US and many people consider that each individual should care for him/herself. There is not a culture of a state caring for the citizens, whereas in Europe the culture is opposite. The arguments used by the HC sector are:

- The HC will be shit. Huge queues, poor attention, people not getting treatment...
- The doctors want to keep making huge $$$ (some of them). A free HC means that you will pay less and will probably need to form more doctors.
- The insurance companies are simply scared to death. It is their business to get paid for HC (and deny claims as much as they can). They threaten with rising the premiums.
- In general, there are many people that do not consider that HC is a right, and everyone is to care for their own.

I live in a nation that has free healthcare, as free as it gets, we pay a very small ($2) fee for each visit but that is literally nothing, that is basically just rounding up number for the government and not for profit at all.

I can tell you that you can have both of these situations together, which I know looks silly on paper but works very well. We have both private hospitals where you pay a ton of money, and also government hospitals that are just 2 bucks. Do we have waiting periods? We do, not queue actually, because you just take your date and leave and come back in your date and you are ready to go see the doctor, there is nothing really wrong with that, or if you want to, pay 100 bucks instead of 2 bucks and see a private one and get checked.

My mother in law is sick these days, and she spent nearly 4 thousand dollars total, all private, just like American system. So, we both have that 2 bucks free healthcare system that allows us to get healthcare if we are poor, but we also have those insurance company loving high priced ones at the same time. It really works and it is a good compromise.

[DrBeer]

I live in a nation that has free healthcare, as free as it gets, we pay a very small ($2) fee for each visit but that is literally nothing, that is basically just rounding up number for the government and not for profit at all.

I can tell you that you can have both of these situations together, which I know looks silly on paper but works very well. We have both private hospitals where you pay a ton of money, and also government hospitals that are just 2 bucks. Do we have waiting periods? We do, not queue actually, because you just take your date and leave and come back in your date and you are ready to go see the doctor, there is nothing really wrong with that, or if you want to, pay 100 bucks instead of 2 bucks and see a private one and get checked.

My mother in law is sick these days, and she spent nearly 4 thousand dollars total, all private, just like American system. So, we both have that 2 bucks free healthcare system that allows us to get healthcare if we are poor, but we also have those insurance company loving high priced ones at the same time. It really works and it is a good compromise.

If not difficult - a couple of answers to a couple of questions:
1. Where do you live? (If you don’t want to answer this question, ok don’t answer)
2. Is the quality of the described medicine sufficient? Is the range of services provided wide? Can you cure there from a dislocated finger, for example, childbirth, or complex intracavitary operations?
3. How can you explain the presence of paid clinics with excellent free medicine?

[LUCKMCFLY]

Obamacare seems like something that is already out of the box and natural for most countries. Even the UK, not a major suspect of socialism, has a Social Security system built decades ago (1948 or so) and provides free care.

Let's face it, the health care business is huge in the US and many people consider that each individual should care for him/herself. There is not a culture of a state caring for the citizens, whereas in Europe the culture is opposite. The arguments used by the HC sector are:

- The HC will be shit. Huge queues, poor attention, people not getting treatment...
- The doctors want to keep making huge $$$ (some of them). A free HC means that you will pay less and will probably need to form more doctors.
- The insurance companies are simply scared to death. It is their business to get paid for HC (and deny claims as much as they can). They threaten with rising the premiums.
- In general, there are many people that do not consider that HC is a right, and everyone is to care for their own.

I live in a nation that has free healthcare, as free as it gets, we pay a very small ($2) fee for each visit but that is literally nothing, that is basically just rounding up number for the government and not for profit at all.

I can tell you that you can have both of these situations together, which I know looks silly on paper but works very well. We have both private hospitals where you pay a ton of money, and also government hospitals that are just 2 bucks. Do we have waiting periods? We do, not queue actually, because you just take your date and leave and come back in your date and you are ready to go see the doctor, there is nothing really wrong with that, or if you want to, pay 100 bucks instead of 2 bucks and see a private one and get checked.

My mother in law is sick these days, and she spent nearly 4 thousand dollars total, all private, just like American system. So, we both have that 2 bucks free healthcare system that allows us to get healthcare if we are poor, but we also have those insurance company loving high priced ones at the same time. It really works and it is a good compromise.

I have some doubts, and it seems to me that I can summarize it in three options:

1.-You live in a first world country where the priority is its people, where many times the government wanted to take away jobs and its people did not want to, and they have all the comforts and basic services.

2.-You are stuck in a socialist-communist country (which for me, socialist means communist) where they clearly make you believe that.

3.-The doctors are probably Cuban, because the medical branch demands to have a profit for its professionals.

Excuse me, but as it is written, what you describe is particularly those aspects.

[Falconer]

It is difficult to achieve justice in this world if you hope in humans because the best justice belong to God. The world is never fair and when we compare rich and poor there is always a picture that poor people always look weak without much money while rich people can always make their cake grow.

Taxes are a solution to achieve justice for equity where the richer a person is, the higher the expected tax. We can urge government to do so, but I doubt we have the power to influence their greed in the end. I believe that if the tax management is correct, then the level of prosperity of the people will probably reach a better number and poverty and hunger will be lower. This economic disparity only occurs if the government is unfair to its people, and the success rate of its implementation is still very low in any country.

[oHnK]

Taxes are a solution to achieve justice for equity where the richer a person is, the higher the expected tax. We can urge government to do so, but I doubt we have the power to influence their greed in the end. I believe that if the tax management is correct, then the level of prosperity of the people will probably reach a better number and poverty and hunger will be lower. This economic disparity only occurs if the government is unfair to its people, and the success rate of its implementation is still very low in any country.

If taxes are really the solution, then today no one is hungry, in fact this economic inequality is due to an interest-bearing economic system to a false government system.  Why do I say false, basically the government is the representative of the people who are elected to solve various problems.  But they are trapped in office and abuse it with corruption, collusion and nepotime.  Isn't that already rooted?  Not to mention the economic system based on interest.  This is the source of the big problem of inequality.  I'm not defending religion and comparing it only as a reference for discussion in this forum.  In Islam, usury is strictly prohibited because of the impact that the OP wrote.  Currently, if usury did not exist, we might not see people who are very poor because the rules are clear.

[Fortify]

Do you think it's fair? If only the 22 richest individuals in the world had more money than the 3.8 billion people who are currently in business? Well about 22 people have more money saved abroad than the total population of China, United States and India combined?

Let's take a look at Elon Musk, Jeff Bejoz, Bernard Arnold and Family, Bill gates etc. Their income within 1 or 2 weeks is equivalent to the income needed by the United Nations Organization to provide humanitarian aid in Yemen, Ethiopia, South Sudan etc, all of which are experiencing a hunger crisis. with 0.00000005% of their wealth, it will provide a decent life for 1 family who can eat 3 times a day for the next 100 years.

Do you think this kind of reality is fair? As it should be, economic disparities can actually be resolved, because look at the economic disparities in the world which have greatly exceeded the tolerance limit.
What can we as democratic citizens do to demand global governments stop giving excessive tax breaks to multinational corporations from the world's richest people? Or can we just watch this reality from day to day? When we don't have any influence reviewing the chest is something I often do.
Look at them just laughing:

"There's a class war, alright, but it's my class, the rich class, that makes war, and we won." – Warren Buffett.

I don't think it's fair but cannot see it changing any time soon. The sad fact of life is many people are not educated, nor take the time to educate themselves, about how to make their finances work in their favor. Lots of people go through life with the mentality that they must spend every penny that they earn immediately and never save or invest for their future benefit. Others grow a family that they can barely afford, but it does bring them mostly happiness which can be better that money. However if you can find a balance, save up a fair proportion of your wages and invest them properly then it is possible to build some degree of freedom compared to others. Even Warren Buffett, while he did have a privileged childhood was able to build up all his wealth from by learning this from any early age.

[Falconer]

If taxes are really the solution, then today no one is hungry,

Exactly, I think you have a good point here. Taxes are the best way to help countries fight poverty and hunger and can improve people's welfare. In fact, the government and its system are completely unreliable because there are many individual who are leaders in such an unfair way that the implementation and functioning of the tax itself is of little help in this regard. Corruption is one of the thing that hinders prosperity and individuals who do it should not be in the government structure because they will only be the biggest obstacle. In the end we can conclude that don't expect justice from hungry lion because they will only think of their own stomach and lusts.