PoW vs PoS

[Wind_FURY]

Newbies, a network under POS is a permissioned system. It’s NOT ideal for a “money”. The consensus mechanism depends on people holding the token, but how can they get some of the tokens? They need to buy/get it from a third party. It’s not a trustless, and permissionless way to distribute the currency.

[dzonikg28]

3. Not working as well as you think. At some point , No country will allow bitcoin mining, because their energy waste threatens the entire power grid.

Speculation & FUD.

Try News instead of fud.  
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-13/bitcoin-miners-fleeing-china-could-overload-siberia-s-power-grid

Bitcoin Miners Fleeing China Could Overload Siberia’s Power Grid

https://protos.com/bitcoin-miners-overload-kazakhstans-electricity-grid-forcing-rations/

Kazakhstan will ration electricity and even cut off over-consuming customers after a wave of Chinese Bitcoin miners pushed the country’s unprepared power grid to breaking point.

  

This leaves out of the equation the fact that all kinds of technologies can and will improve, the power grids included. I have no idea whether Siberia a decent reference point for strong power grids that could truly suffer from overload. In fact, one day rising Bitcoin prices could even be an incentive for countries to improve their infrastructure.

Oh and by the way:
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/research%3A-bitcoin-consumes-less-than-half-the-energy-of-the-banking-or-gold-industries

[TangentC]

3. Not working as well as you think. At some point , No country will allow bitcoin mining, because their energy waste threatens the entire power grid.

Speculation & FUD.

Try News instead of fud.  
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-13/bitcoin-miners-fleeing-china-could-overload-siberia-s-power-grid

Bitcoin Miners Fleeing China Could Overload Siberia’s Power Grid

https://protos.com/bitcoin-miners-overload-kazakhstans-electricity-grid-forcing-rations/

Kazakhstan will ration electricity and even cut off over-consuming customers after a wave of Chinese Bitcoin miners pushed the country’s unprepared power grid to breaking point.

  

This leaves out of the equation the fact that all kinds of technologies can and will improve, the power grids included. I have no idea whether Siberia a decent reference point for strong power grids that could truly suffer from overload. In fact, one day rising Bitcoin prices could even be an incentive for countries to improve their infrastructure.

Oh and by the way:
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/research%3A-bitcoin-consumes-less-than-half-the-energy-of-the-banking-or-gold-industries

Let me know when a Country bans banking because the bank threaten the destruction of it's power grid,
then you have an argument, until then you are just living in a delusion of a bitcoin cultist fantasy. 

[Wind_FURY]

How long must the protocol run for Bitcoin to prove itself as a multi-generational protocol for a “money”? No entity has stopped it, after the China FUD, the China Ban, the other FUDs/bans, all the false narratives. OR has dethroned it from being the cryptocurrency with the highest market value.

[TangentC]

For those of you still too dense to realize that Proof of Waste is a Dead Tech.

https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/iceland-energy-crisis-limits-power-heavy-users-including-bitcoin-miners

Largest Icelandic Utility Cuts Power To Crypto-Miners Amid Grid Crunch

This week, a power crisis has developed in Iceland, forcing the island's largest utility company, Landsvirkjun, to reduce electricity to energy-intensive industries, such as data centers and metal smelters, including the denial of new power contracts to crypto miners.  

    "The reduction does not only apply to fishmeal factories but also to those large users who have curtailable short-term contracts, such as data centers and smelters. Landsvirkjun has also rejected all requests from new customers for energy purchases due to electronic currency mining," according to Iceland Monitor.

All power on the island is generated through renewable sources, with 73% of electricity provided by hydropower plants and 26.8% from geothermal energy, accounting for over 99% of total electricity consumption. The source of the power crisis is low hydro reservoir levels.

Let the bitcoin cultist cries of FUD begin.  

FYI:
Funny how Iceland had no problems maintaining power before the bitcoin miners started sucking them dry.  

On a more serious note :
Current day time temps in parts of iceland are as low as 7 degree Fahrenheit,
The Utility has to keep power to the people so they don't die from the cold.
Bitcoin PoW is just a waste of resources to the people of iceland.


FYI2:
https://www.icelandreview.com/news/icelanders-used-most-electricity-per-capita-in-2017/

Iceland’s per capita energy consumption could prove significantly higher in 2018 and 2019,
thanks to another energy-intensive industry that has taken hold in the country: Bitcoin mining.
In 2018, Jóhann Snorri Sigurbergsson from energy company HS Orka estimated that
Bitcoin mining used more electricity that year than all of the country’s households combined.

[Wind_FURY]

It doesn’t change anything. Hahaha. Because some country wants to ban mining, suddenly Bitcoin mining is wasteful? What happened to Sybil Protection Mechanism? What happened to Byzantine Fault Tolerance? Isn’t issuance of the currency from the protocol itself important anymore?

[franky1]

For those of you still too dense to realize that Proof of Waste is a Dead Tech.

https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/iceland-energy-crisis-limits-power-heavy-users-including-bitcoin-miners

Largest Icelandic Utility Cuts Power To Crypto-Miners Amid Grid Crunch

This week, a power crisis has developed in Iceland, forcing the island's largest utility company, Landsvirkjun, to reduce electricity to energy-intensive industries, such as data centers and metal smelters, including the denial of new power contracts to crypto miners.  

    "The reduction does not only apply to fishmeal factories but also to those large users who have curtailable short-term contracts, such as data centers and smelters. Landsvirkjun has also rejected all requests from new customers for energy purchases due to electronic currency mining," according to Iceland Monitor.

All power on the island is generated through renewable sources, with 73% of electricity provided by hydropower plants and 26.8% from geothermal energy, accounting for over 99% of total electricity consumption. The source of the power crisis is low hydro reservoir levels.

Let the bitcoin cultist cries of FUD begin.  

FYI:
Funny how Iceland had no problems maintaining power before the bitcoin miners started sucking them dry.  

they are not cutting current mining contracts. they are instead not accepting NEW mining companies moving in

this is because there was a mass migration of mining companies from asia to iceland.
dont blame the current icelandic miners. blame the asian miners wanting to move to iceland.

what you also find is that iceland dont just have power plants with only just enough capacity for today. they know it takes years/decades to build a power plant so their power plants are designed to have MORE capacity than the consumption requirements of the time of todays design. this is called a buffer/excess.

utility companies like having their plants at full capacity as that = full income. meaning they can get more profit to then invest in more expansion.

for years now big mining farms have been buying up the buffer/excess outside of the residential/industry production quota. thus not harming the residential/industrial supply, not causing brownouts.
what is happening more recently is the migration of many farms from china causing too much future demand that would exceed the FUTURE buffer/excess. and so they put a stop to FUTURE contracts of not yet made farms, whilst still honouring the current contracts of already set up farms.

the current settled farms will continue to mine and will continue to profit the utility company while the utility company then has more time to expand and build more power plants.

[pooya87]

PoW vs PoS

So 2014 ish. Forum was flooded with the junk.

Get used to it because the forum will be increasingly flooded with topics like this from now on because a popular shitcoin with 72 million premine is trying to convince the plebs into thinking their switch from PoW to PoS is actually a good move that is going to save their shitcoin.

[TangentC]

PoW vs PoS

So 2014 ish. Forum was flooded with the junk.

Get used to it because the forum will be increasingly flooded with topics like this from now on because a popular shitcoin with 72 million premine is trying to convince the plebs into thinking their switch from PoW to PoS is actually a good move that is going to save their shitcoin.

In your cult confusion, no one is talking about any other coin , only Shitcoins that Use Outdated Environmentally Harmful Proof of Waste Technology like Bitcoin.

Proof of Waste Technology is what is being banned.

https://en.cryptonomist.ch/2021/12/10/iceland-limits-electricity-crypto-mining/

the increase in mining activity is said to be one of the reasons for the sudden energy deficit,

China’s ban on mining

Sweden and Norway seem to be moving towards a total ban on mining

“It is currently possible to drive a mid-size electric car 1.8 million kilometres using the same energy it takes to mine one single Bitcoin.
This is the equivalent of forty-four laps around the globe. 900 bitcoins are mined every day.
This is not a reasonable use of our renewable energy”.

Keep thinking Proof of Waste is not a problem.  

FYI:
Meanwhile in Texas :  
https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2021/12/05/as-the-rest-of-texas-frets-about-power-outages-denton-adds-bitcoin-mining-to-the-grid/

Currently, the 135,000 residents of the city of Denton need about 275 megawatts of electricity generating capacity at peak load.
A new purchase-power agreement between local utility Denton Municipal Electric and cryptocurrency “miner” Core Scientific would double that capacity demand over the life of the seven-year contract.
Record scratch: double the entire city’s electricity demand in one contract?

[Wind_FURY]

I heard electricity usage from Christmas lights surges around this time of the year. I believe the anti-Christmas groups supported by anti-Christmas entities should start spreading disinformation, and social-engineering attacks before it’s too late to stop Santa.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Found a great article that explains why proof of stake isn't a consensus mechanism, but a cunning way for an electronic cash system to operate: Proof of stake is a scam and the people promoting it are scammers.

I hadn't thought of this “Nothing at Stake problem” he speaks of. In proof of work, there's a punishment to those who misbehave, but not in proof of stake. @TangentC, wanna give this a read and tell us where he's wrong?

[Tash]

Found a great article that explains why proof of stake isn't a consensus mechanism, but a cunning way for an electronic cash system to operate: Proof of stake is a scam and the people promoting it are scammers.

I hadn't thought of this “Nothing at Stake problem” he speaks of. In proof of work, there's a punishment to those who misbehave, but not in proof of stake. @TangentC, wanna give this a read and tell us where he's wrong?

Nice one the same applies to the brocken XRP

[TangentC]

Found a great article that explains why proof of stake isn't a consensus mechanism, but a cunning way for an electronic cash system to operate: Proof of stake is a scam and the people promoting it are scammers.

I hadn't thought of this “Nothing at Stake problem” he speaks of. In proof of work, there's a punishment to those who misbehave, but not in proof of stake. @TangentC, wanna give this a read and tell us where he's wrong?

Nothing at Stake was a falsehood imagined by Greg Maxwell years ago.
Often repeated by those that have little understanding of how things really work.

Everyone that has researched proof of stake, knows N@S is nothing more than propaganda bullshit.
Which is why you see all the new coins ignore Proof of waste and use Proof of Stake.

Falsehoods in N@S are many and most of the time, different people even represent it in different ways,
the only consistent fact is all N@S believers are wrong.  

In the years , since the N@S myth was created , has Proof of Stake been decimated by it, Nope, because it is an lie.
In the years, since people have been warning that Proof of Work would be banned due to it waste,
China (formerly bitcoin's largest hash rate miner) has banned it and multiple other countries are talking about following suit.

So from the above you can see the reality is the banning of PoW is happening , and the N@S myth is nothing more than a lie for the unintelligent btc cult followers.  

 

Nice one the same applies to the broken XRP

Actually No,
The Ripple (XRP) network does not run with a proof-of-work (PoW) system or a proof-of-stake (PoS) system.
Instead, transactions rely on a consensus protocol in order to validate account balances and transactions on the system.

[Tash]

.............

Nice one the same applies to the broken XRP

Actually No,
The Ripple (XRP) network does not run with a proof-of-work (PoW) system like bitcoin or a proof-of-stake (PoS) system.
Instead, transactions rely on a consensus protocol in order to validate account balances and transactions on the system.

I know that, that junk is so good that they managed to permanently loose some of a nuke proof "blockchain", can not happen with bitcoin.
Even worse than PoS.

[TangentC]

.............

Nice one the same applies to the broken XRP

Actually No,
The Ripple (XRP) network does not run with a proof-of-work (PoW) system like bitcoin or a proof-of-stake (PoS) system.
Instead, transactions rely on a consensus protocol in order to validate account balances and transactions on the system.

I know that, that junk is so good that they managed to permanently loose some of a nuke proof "blockchain", can not happen with bitcoin.
Even worse than PoS.

Actually if all of the bitcoin nodes keep doing that pruned node nonsense instead of running full nodes that hold all of the transactions from the Genesis block,
losing a large part of the bitcoin blockchain becomes a real issue in bitcoin's future.  

In PoS , Users have financial incentive to be full nodes, Thanks to Staking the Coins. 
In PoW, their is no financial incentive to be a full node. IE: a major flaw in BTC as the blockchain grows.

[Ozero]

bitcoin has a real cost of creation via the mining hardware. much like golds underlying cost is in gold mining costs.

because it costs $10's of thousands in electric/hardware to make just one bitcoin. (more precisely hundreds of thousands per 6.25 reward) that gives bitcoin a baseline value. which no one wants to sell below. thus giving bitcoin a good actual store of value.
yes there is the vapour/speculative/bubble premium ontop thats volatile. but thats the same with gold

What you have just explained has made me wonder about something. Do you think that the rise in electricity prices that is happening in many parts of the world, especially where it is being mined the most now like the US, is going to affect the price of Bitcoin? It should, I'd say, even though we are in a bull market I guess it is another factor that will push the price up.

In my opinion, @franky1, describing the cost of mining bitcoin, which is supposedly equal to about $ 10,000, confused the cost of production of one bitcoin with its price. The high cost of a product is its negative quality. In addition, it is precisely against such high costs for its production that Swedish regulators have recently come out, having turned to the countries of the European Union with a proposal to prohibit the mining of energy-consuming cryptocurrency with the PoW algorithm as part of the fight against global climate change. It is quite possible that such a proposal will be supported by other states.

[Tash]

bitcoin has a real cost of creation via the mining hardware. much like golds underlying cost is in gold mining costs.

because it costs $10's of thousands in electric/hardware to make just one bitcoin. (more precisely hundreds of thousands per 6.25 reward) that gives bitcoin a baseline value. which no one wants to sell below. thus giving bitcoin a good actual store of value.
yes there is the vapour/speculative/bubble premium ontop thats volatile. but thats the same with gold

What you have just explained has made me wonder about something. Do you think that the rise in electricity prices that is happening in many parts of the world, especially where it is being mined the most now like the US, is going to affect the price of Bitcoin? It should, I'd say, even though we are in a bull market I guess it is another factor that will push the price up.

In my opinion, @ franky1, describing the cost of mining bitcoin, which is supposedly equal to about $ 10,000, confused the cost of production of one bitcoin, with its cost, and more precisely with the price. The high cost of a product is its negative quality. In addition, it is precisely such high costs for its production that Swedish regulators have recently come out against, having approached the countries of the European Union with a proposal to prohibit the mining of energy-consuming cryptocurrency with the PoW algorithm as part of the fight against global climate change. It is quite possible that such a proposal will be supported by other states.

Lol the climate change scam again where prominet   politicians fly 50km instead using a car or heaven forbid a bus for common people.
Has gold mining also been discussed or is it essential for survival to wear jewelry?
What about a quatzillion banks have heating and aircon on all year round.
I guess without car racing we have nothing to eat tomorrow.
And transporting bottled water from China to Europe or US must be done just so you have variate in supermarket.
Is it needed to fill the page with that political nonsens, or is it your entirely
Bitcoin halves every 4 years so a lot of miners have to shut down, uneconomic.

[pushups44]

I don't think this needs to be either/or. PoS has advantages over PoW, and energy savings are one example of this. Also, PoW as we see with bitcoin encourages the centralization of mining, since individuals can no longer mine for profit. In some ways, PoS is thus superior in its decentralization. However, I am a supporter and holder of bitcoin, and I believe it will remain the best form of digital gold for the foreseeable future.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Everyone that has researched proof of stake, knows N@S is nothing more than propaganda bullshit.

What's N@S?

China (formerly bitcoin's largest hash rate miner) has banned it and multiple other countries are talking about following suit.

China's government haven't yet banned themselves. Do you seriously believe PoW will be forbidden by every location on Earth? It seems unrealistic, especially when the majority of the hash rate comes from renewable sources of energy.

Instead, transactions rely on a consensus protocol in order to validate account balances and transactions on the system.

At first, you say that XRP does not run with PoW neither with PoS. Afterwards, you use an “instead” and state that they rely on a consensus protocol. May I conclude you don't think PoW and PoS are consensus protocols?

In PoW, their is no financial incentive to be a full node. IE: a major flaw in BTC as the blockchain grows.

And the storage becomes cheaper to possess... Besides, why should there be a financial incentive to run a full node? Running a full node is mostly a personal service and doesn't contribute to the network much.

[TangentC]

Everyone that has researched proof of stake, knows N@S is nothing more than propaganda bullshit.

What's N@S?

China (formerly bitcoin's largest hash rate miner) has banned it and multiple other countries are talking about following suit.

China's government haven't yet banned themselves. Do you seriously believe PoW will be forbidden by every location on Earth? It seems unrealistic, especially when the majority of the hash rate comes from renewable sources of energy.

Instead, transactions rely on a consensus protocol in order to validate account balances and transactions on the system.

At first, you say that XRP does not run with PoW neither with PoS. Afterwards, you use an “instead” and state that they rely on a consensus protocol. May I conclude you don't think PoW and PoS are consensus protocols?

In PoW, their is no financial incentive to be a full node. IE: a major flaw in BTC as the blockchain grows.

And the storage becomes cheaper to possess... Besides, why should there be a financial incentive to run a full node? Running a full node is mostly a personal service and doesn't contribute to the network much.

ShortHand that has been used for years
N@S = Nothing at Stake

PoW will have to be banned by every country , no country has the resources to power 2 earths worth of energy drain.
Which is the problem with Geometric grow in energy waste and why PoW is doomed to be banned

XRP does not use PoW or PoS. Don't use your imagination to imply I said anything else.  

Because by having a financial incentive to run a full node, you guarantee that every transaction since the genesis block is attainable by anyone.
You seriously don't understand the value of Full Nodes.  I suggest you research them on your own, so you make more informed statements in the future.