Do you think that Bitcoin is more worth buying than the ASICs?

[Peace(ASIC supplierChina)]

What is your reason for starting mining?

How do you define whether a supplier is legit?

Thanks

[1715490853]

1715490853

[1715490853]

1715490853

[1715490853]

1715490853

[NapHappy]

This calculator will give you an idea of the variables that will affect whether mining can be profitable.

Smokinghopium.io

[btc2marspro]

I define good supplier as they do not SPAM

How do you define whether a supplier is legit?

Thanks

[Canamprayer]

I can vouch for my supplier.  Not so much on used stuff (every used machine I ordered was delivered on time, but the machines were dirty).  But I have bought 10 of the new 85 TH/S Avalons over 3 orders.  One machine was lost in between USA and Mexico and they stood behind it.   Make sure you order with DDP shipping, I have no clue how they get around taxes and all the other BS but they do.  And to be fair about the used ones, the Whatsminers M21 50TH/S were good just a little dirty, but their L·3`s were horribly dirty.  If you go used get a 3rd party to check the machines, it is cheap and worth it.  Theire company name is Leed Manufacturing. PM me if you want more info and I can give you a history of prices I paid.   As for the first part of your questioin, it all depends on your electricity cost, and if you have time to monitor the machines. 

[Niggle1981]

Canamprayer: Could you please PM your supplier's details? I'm in the market for a miner or 2. As a newbie on the forums, I couldn't pm you. Thanks.

[kiddex]

From my experience when i bought a goldshell miner and then sold it a few month later, i think i won the deal compared to the guy i sold it too. i made a pretty good profit while the return for sia coin with the hs5 miner i sold is going down. I am not sure he will be able to make his money back with the miner. So yeah in my case id rather just buy bitcoin than mine it but each to their own.

[Crypticness]

This calculator is wrong.  It assumes you pay for your miner in BTC.  However if you pay fiat then the increasing of BTC/$ pricing means that you can pay your miner back sooner because of inflation of the $.  Bottom line, buy your miner in fiat, accumulate BTC and then convert to fiat to pay it off.  The assumption is that BTC price vs $ increases over time.

This calculator will give you an idea of the variables that will affect whether mining can be profitable.

Smokinghopium.io

[NapHappy]

This calculator is wrong.  It assumes you pay for your miner in BTC.  However if you pay fiat then the increasing of BTC/$ pricing means that you can pay your miner back sooner because of inflation of the $.  Bottom line, buy your miner in fiat, accumulate BTC and then convert to fiat to pay it off.  The assumption is that BTC price vs $ increases over time.

This calculator will give you an idea of the variables that will affect whether mining can be profitable.

Smokinghopium.io

Enjoy your fiat gains and BTC losses.

[unicornmangle]

if nobody mines and nobody runs nodes bitcoin will end up like our current monetary systems. anyone can buy hardware it doesn't need to be profitable to support the network and continue to show the value of bitcoin at the very least run a full node bandwidth is cheap. riches doesn't always need to be the main driver i think people need to look at what the future could be like with fast cheap payments and everyone contributes instead of complaining about how things suck and their stock are down and crypto is down.

[gunhell16]

What is your reason for starting mining?

How do you define whether a supplier is legit?

Thanks

It's better to mine bitcoin and to do it you need to have enough or too much money to buy bitcoin mining machines. Because once you start it is a great saving for the future, the only disadvantage is that when the value of bitcoin falls in the market, the cost of electricity increases especially because of the mining machine used in bitcoin.

Therefore, during a bear market, it is better to invest in bitcoin in well-known exchanges and play with it in trading, because it is easier to make money during these times.

But if you know of legitimate suppliers that you can get bitcoin mining from you can check out this site
https://www.globalsources.com

[goldkingcoiner]

What is your reason for starting mining?

How do you define whether a supplier is legit?

Thanks

I am not sure why you have 2 different questions in your post and 1 random question in your topic header but I will try to answer, to your topic question of if I think buying BTC is worth more than mining hardware:

I think that your perspective on this is wrong. At some point, your investment in those ASICs will be covered by the mined Bitcoin profits. And once you have regained the money you invested, you will be mining for profit, having to cover only your mining bills (electricity, rent and so on...).

Now, if your mining bills >= Bitcoin profits then obviously mining Bitcoin with ASICs would be useless as you would earn no profit and there would be no point in buying ASICs in the first place.

So the question you should ask yourself must be: Is my government ripping me off when it comes to the electricity bill ?

[stompix]

This calculator will give you an idea of the variables that will affect whether mining can be profitable.
Smokinghopium.io

The problem with all these calculators is that they forget to tell users one tiny thing when trying to force upon them an idea, of either a profit or in the case, of loss.
Looking at the default setting, it's clear what the aim is,  let's extrapolate things cause this will be like this forever, you have a monthly BTC price gain of 3.0 and a difficulty gain of 4.1, just for fun let's double the value to accelerate it and you're going to see that it will show in one year the cost for mining being above the value return in BTC but despite this it would still lead you to believe people will still add more and more mining gear, keeping this exponential growth despite absolutely no returns, which is impossible.
Run this scenario till 2030 and do tell me how many fabs we need to produce all the chips needed for such a hashrate.

How would miners add 2 million S19XP in the next year to match that growth and more importantly how would they even get produced in that interval?
Calculators should do just one thing, calculate, not start with customer-made scenarios (10k for a miner that is priced at 6k) only to prove a point.

[mikeywith]

The problem with all these calculators is that they forget to tell users one tiny thing when trying to force upon them an idea, of either a profit or in the case, of loss.
Looking at the default setting, it's clear what the aim is,  let's extrapolate things cause this will be like this forever

Man, you gotta give credit to the website posted above, honestly, I think it's the most honest mining calculator I have seen in my entire life, if you read the second line of the website it states:

Smoking Hopium - Making decisions based on wishful thinking

They couldn't have described any better, in fact, he goes further by saying

Warning! Objects in the rear view mirror only show where you have been.

Any model is unrealistic and this is no exception, the variables in this calculation will not progress at an even rate, but this is only an attempt to avoid smoking hopium.

Now to be a bit more serious, I'd add to your post two factors that aren't mentioned in most places, are as follows:

1- All trends (including BTC difficulty and price) will be affected by the natural events of diminishing returns and the effect is impossible to guess, so the past average is exactly meaningless.

2- Using averages in mining calculation is plain stupid because while the price can do 200% over 3 years, you won't be able to stand 1.5 years of mining at loss, unlike buying BTC and having to just wait for the action to happen, with mining, you might still be in a larger cycle where profits are positioned to do 10x, but only after 13 months, having already both the gears and got under debt /rent/bills/contracts, even if you were dead sure that in 13 months you will be earning some serious money, you might just not be able to stand on your feet to witness that time.

[philipma1957]

The key is zero debt and cheap power.

I have cheap power and zero debt..

Guess what I am making far less than 2021.

Our gpu's used to earn 9000 a month with me getting 25% this was 2250 a month
Our gpu's earn 700 a month with me getting 25% that is only  180 a month


Our LTC/Doge used to earn 11000 a month with my share 2200 a month
it now earns 4000 a month  with my share 800 a month


I won't reveal BTC numbers

but they are down.

If I had debt I would go broke. As it is my alt coins dropped from 4450 a month to 980 a month

[stompix]

Man, you gotta give credit to the website posted above, honestly, I think it's the most honest mining calculator I have seen in my entire life, if you read the second line of the website it states:

I don't have anything against the calculator itself, what I meant is that when you start adding extra text and guides, it becomes either a guide or a research. And just from the title, common, this is biased in one direction, just how other calculators are the other way when they try to sell you gear, how DCA sites and how rainbow infinity gain charts are.
The thing that it considers a 6% growth per month for BTC price is pure hopium and a 5% increase in difficulty is "normal", well, we all know how this can't be right at the same time.

1- All trends (including BTC difficulty and price) will be affected by the natural events of diminishing returns and the effect is impossible to guess, so the past average is exactly meaningless.

That's why I don't like either extrapolation or the so-called gradual growth schemes, they look natural in the short term because it was doable in the past but if you project that over a longer term it doesn't look credible anymore, by the 6y average difficulty would more than double every year, this is impossible, the price might trace this growth for a while but at some point when you hit 2x every year and you already have a  bitcoin at a billion $ it's just silly, same when we hit a zettahash, doubling again next year? Not without every semiconductor maker producing miners!

Our gpu's used to earn 9000 a month with me getting 25% this was 2250 a month
Our gpu's earn 700 a month with me getting 25% that is only  180 a month

GPU is a different game, you had one coin that made 95% of the reward money switching to PoS, unless altcoins that are minable will manage to do a x20 gain mining will never be as profitable as it was when eth was minable. Of course, a lot of miners quit and sold so there won't be the need for that much, maybe an x7, x10 but still without that it would be like Bitcoin disappearing and leaving us to mine Bitcoin cash and SV.

[mikeywith]

I don't have anything against the calculator itself

I know, the part of my comment was supposed to sound funny, but ya, I know, I am not the funniest person you would meet online. , honestly, at least that website puts a warning of some kind unlike all the other online calculators I have seen, it does go on with using unstained numbers but ya, still better than just showing the imaginary gains without any type of disclaimer.

[BitDane]

What is your reason for starting mining?

How do you define whether a supplier is legit?

Thanks

It's better to mine bitcoin and to do it you need to have enough or too much money to buy bitcoin mining machines. Because once you start it is a great saving for the future, the only disadvantage is that when the value of bitcoin falls in the market, the cost of electricity increases especially because of the mining machine used in bitcoin.

Therefore, during a bear market, it is better to invest in bitcoin in well-known exchanges and play with it in trading, because it is easier to make money during these times.

But if you know of legitimate suppliers that you can get bitcoin mining from you can check out this site
https://www.globalsources.com

At the current market situation, I think it is better to buy Bitcoin than buying an ASIC and mine Bitcoin.  If you buy bitcoin , you save yourself from setting up mining rig, maintenance, and noise created by miner oh, and also save you from the complaint of your neighbor if you are just a wall away from them.  You also save yourself from possible early machine break out.  There is more pro than cons in buying Bitcoin directly than buying ASICS and mining Bitcoin.

[|MINER|]

What is your reason for starting mining?

How do you define whether a supplier is legit?

Thanks

It's better to mine bitcoin and to do it you need to have enough or too much money to buy bitcoin mining machines. Because once you start it is a great saving for the future, the only disadvantage is that when the value of bitcoin falls in the market, the cost of electricity increases especially because of the mining machine used in bitcoin.

Therefore, during a bear market, it is better to invest in bitcoin in well-known exchanges and play with it in trading, because it is easier to make money during these times.

But if you know of legitimate suppliers that you can get bitcoin mining from you can check out this site
https://www.globalsources.com

At the current market situation, I think it is better to buy Bitcoin than buying an ASIC and mine Bitcoin.  If you buy bitcoin , you save yourself from setting up mining rig, maintenance, and noise created by miner oh, and also save you from the complaint of your neighbor if you are just a wall away from them.  You also save yourself from possible early machine break out.  There is more pro than cons in buying Bitcoin directly than buying ASICS and mining Bitcoin.

Looking at the cryptocurrency market today, almost everyone will say the same thing that buying Bitcoin is better than making ASIC and mining.  I also think that buying bitcoins would be best at the moment but should not mix trading with ASIC and mine bitcoins separately.

As currently Bitcoin mining is not becoming profitable due to electricity bills and dumping of the market, I think even if you are going to trade, you have to take trades for long term where the investment will not get any profit quickly. So I think both the sectors have their pros and cons now I think it depends on the individual which one he chooses.

[Lida93]

What is your reason for starting mining?

How do you define whether a supplier is legit?

Thanks

It's better to mine bitcoin and to do it you need to have enough or too much money to buy bitcoin mining machines. Because once you start it is a great saving for the future, the only disadvantage is that when the value of bitcoin falls in the market, the cost of electricity increases especially because of the mining machine used in bitcoin.

Therefore, during a bear market, it is better to invest in bitcoin in well-known exchanges and play with it in trading, because it is easier to make money during these times.

But if you know of legitimate suppliers that you can get bitcoin mining from you can check out this site
https://www.globalsources.com

At the current market situation, I think it is better to buy Bitcoin than buying an ASIC and mine Bitcoin.  If you buy bitcoin , you save yourself from setting up mining rig, maintenance, and noise created by miner oh, and also save you from the complaint of your neighbor if you are just a wall away from them.  You also save yourself from possible early machine break out.  There is more pro than cons in buying Bitcoin directly than buying ASICS and mining Bitcoin.

Looking at the cryptocurrency market today, almost everyone will say the same thing that buying Bitcoin is better than making ASIC and mining.  I also think that buying bitcoins would be best at the moment but should not mix trading with ASIC and mine bitcoins separately.

As currently Bitcoin mining is not becoming profitable due to electricity bills and dumping of the market, I think even if you are going to trade, you have to take trades for long term where the investment will not get any profit quickly. So I think both the sectors have their pros and cons now I think it depends on the individual which one he chooses.

But in this case I don't think it should be arguable about the pros of investing on bitcoin to bitcoin mining, like it outweighs the mining of it. Imagine a situation where you just buy at a certain price then sit back give it some time without having to stress out to see your investment yield profit even if it takes a year or two.

Meanwhile apart from the hussle and financial burden one has to bear to make available all equipments needed for mining including electricity bills, have you wondered if there should be a natural disaster taking place like wild fire, flooding , these occurrence is capable of stalling mining operations for a longer period as electricity distribution would drastically be affected and cut off putting all mining activities to a hold whereas some that just invested in bitcoin could be experiencing a bull along the way in that same occurrence.

[dansus021]

THis is my opinion but its worth to buy a bitcoin rather than buying a mining rig, IF you don't have enough money to afford multiple mining rig. But if you still curious about how mining works and watched the fan screaming yeah you can buy one and running them if you think it is worth you can buy it more.