Missing btc from bitcoin-central in 2013 ( paymium )

[Dizzp]

Hello guys,

After looking into my old mails from 2013, i found out i've bought 2 BTC from the exchange bitcoin-central.net ( now Paymium ).

So i decided to login my  Paymium account access codes but the thing is my 2 btc are not in my wallet. ( same user number and password as my

bitcoin central account )

I never received any withdrawal confirmation mail from bitcoin-central but i got the proof that i purchased 2 btc on April 18th 2013.

it was right before the OVH  hack, so it was a complete mess, but i don't remember that i claimed my 2 btc.

Today when i reached the support they're basically telling me that they are not able to retrace my transaction history cuz i purchased my btc

before november 2013, and if i still had my btc in my bitcoin-central account back then, they would have been transferred into my current

Paymium account.

So my question is, does anyone experienced the same trouble ? and above all they should have sent me by mail a withdrawal confirmation right ?

Many thanks for you answers, and sorry for my english, i'm not a native speaker.  

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[BitMaxz]

You should receive an email if you withdraw them before but since you can't find any then your BTC is on that site.

This is the reason why I don't like my BTC on any exchanges or custodial wallets because if anything goes wrong on that site. You can't able to recover your old wallet and get your BTC back. As most people say "Not your keys, not your coins".
Since it was a long time gone I believe that they already plundered them if they can't provide you with any transaction proof or history.

[bL4nkcode]

Did you have received any email regarding their move to new domain/business name? I guess they will informed their users first together the funds their users have there.

Now, if you have proof such as screenshots (with the amount) bitcoin address from the service (to check the txs) email from them that you received/deposit such amount, also if you didnt received any email regarding the withdrawal of amount then most probably your fund is their position and you should act for that as it worth $$$.

[Darker45]

I don't have an account there, but is it not a basic feature that an account owner has an access to all his/her previous transactions regardless of how old they may be?

While it certainly doesn't help that you are now reaching out to them 8 years after the purchase was made and after a hack took place, I don't think there will be no single trace left if a transaction took place. If it was through the blockchain, there must have been a TXID. If it was an internal transfer, there must have been a reference or transaction number.

I guess you should try to pressure them a little bit more.

[Potato Chips]

That's a tight spot. They do need to be able to verify it on their end otherwise they would be welcoming scammers with open arms. and with how long it has been, it's not hard to believe if such data is long gone. At the same time, 2BTC is huge enough to make someone waver...  In any case, you're stuck with their word  if authorities are in the picture maybe your case will taken more seriously but that is easier said than done.

[The Cryptovator]

As per their support answer, they aren't going to help you. Because they grave the Bitcoin already since your account is empty. There should be history on your account, doesn't matter they moved to the new domain. The domain isn't related to the data host. Since your account is live then the fund is supposed to be there as well. I will say don't give up. Write their social media and try to take legal action. There is the possibility to get back your fund though it's not an easy task ever. But the amount isn't small right now, so try to do whatever you can to push them.

That's the disadvantage of storing funds into custodial wallet or exchange.

[Dizzp]

You should receive an email if you withdraw them before but since you can't find any then your BTC is on that site.

This is the reason why I don't like my BTC on any exchanges or custodial wallets because if anything goes wrong on that site. You can't able to recover your old wallet and get your BTC back. As most people say "Not your keys, not your coins".
Since it was a long time gone I believe that they already plundered them if they can't provide you with any transaction proof or history.

you are 100% right, but you know in 2013.. i wasn't so cautious.

[Dizzp]

That's a tight spot. They do need to be able to verify it on their end otherwise they would be welcoming scammers with open arms. and with how long it has been, it's not hard to believe if such data is long gone. At the same time, 2BTC is huge enough to make someone waver...  In any case, you're stuck with their word  if authorities are in the picture maybe your case will taken more seriously but that is easier said than done.

It's too easy imo to say "it's too old we dont have access to the transaction history, "sorry we can do nothing for you".

Yes i opened a file a the AMF ( french sec ) with all the proofs i have. IF they (Paymium) cannot prove they indeed sent me my 2 btc in 2013,

then what will they do ?

[Dizzp]

Did you have received any email regarding their move to new domain/business name? I guess they will informed their users first together the funds their users have there.

Now, if you have proof such as screenshots (with the amount) bitcoin address from the service (to check the txs) email from them that you received/deposit such amount, also if you didnt received any email regarding the withdrawal of amount then most probably your fund is their position and you should act for that as it worth $$$.

yes here it is : https://ibb.co/q0ZHzn1

I never received any mail informing me that they'll become paymium and i have to transfer my assets etc. After the hack in April 2013, they posted a
message on their website : here it is :

Apr. 25 2013 15:30 CEST UPDATE

Dear all, we'd like to give everyone an update as to what exactly is happening, has happened, and will happen in relation to the recent events at Bitcoin-Central.net.

Here are a few questions that require an immediate answer.

Have funds been lost?

A few hundred Bitcoins have been stolen from our hot wallet.

Will users lose funds?

No. We will cover 100% of the theft.

How did it happen?

Someone managed to reset the password from our hosting provider web interface, this enabled the attacker to lock us out of the interface and request a reboot of the machine in 'rescue' mode. Using this, the attacker copied our hot wallet and sent away what was present.

This very hosting provider (OVH) had been compromised a couple of days ago, in the exact same way, leading to loss of funds on mining.bitcoin.cz.

What is the plan?

We have taken the decision to suspend the service for the time being. Coming up with a different security approach will take some time. We owe it to our users to be on the safe side.

As a consequence we will refund everyone who so wishes up to the last cent and satoshi and take the needed time, without rush, to come up with a platform, an infrastructure and procedures to meet the new challenges that are faced by the Bitcoin exchange ecosystem at large.

Doing the right thing is not always easy. It's ok, riding the Bitcoin is not for the faint of heart, we'll take the time to prepare and we'll be back.

How exactly will this happen?

We will reopen the platform tomorrow, but won't be accepting any new Bitcoin or Euro deposits. Users will be expected to clear their accounts in order for us to settle all balances.

People who have very small EUR balances that aren't practical to wire will be offered a settlement in Bitcoin at generally available market rate at the time of the settlement.

Users will be able to place wire transfer orders, they will be processed as usual. The Bitcoin transfers will be processed directly from our cold-storage and will be sent as daily batches.

Can we refund everyone?

Yes, because Bitcoin-Central has, is, and will always will be full-reserve. We can refund everyone at the same time.

Unclaimed balances will be held until they are claimed, if they are still not claimed when the platform reopens they will be made available to the relevant imported user accounts. All Bitcoin balances left with us will be held in cold storage.

When will I be able to get my BTC/EUR back?

As soon as we re-open you will be able to request your account settlement which will be processed as fast as possible.

We aim at reopening the web interface on April 26th at 14:00 CEST. In case of delays we will post additional updates.

We thank all our users for their trust and business.
We thank everyone that supported us when everything was starting to get hard.

[Dizzp]

I don't have an account there, but is it not a basic feature that an account owner has an access to all his/her previous transactions regardless of how old they may be?

While it certainly doesn't help that you are now reaching out to them 8 years after the purchase was made and after a hack took place, I don't think there will be no single trace left if a transaction took place. If it was through the blockchain, there must have been a TXID. If it was an internal transfer, there must have been a reference or transaction number.

I guess you should try to pressure them a little bit more.

That's what i did yes, also contacting a lawyer. They'll also receive a call/visit from the AMF ( sec in France ) for 110,000 euros i think they'll take it in consideration ... i hope.

[Dizzp]

As per their support answer, they aren't going to help you. Because they grave the Bitcoin already since your account is empty. There should be history on your account, doesn't matter they moved to the new domain. The domain isn't related to the data host. Since your account is live then the fund is supposed to be there as well. I will say don't give up. Write their social media and try to take legal action. There is the possibility to get back your fund though it's not an easy task ever. But the amount isn't small right now, so try to do whatever you can to push them.

That's the disadvantage of storing funds into custodial wallet or exchange.

Nope they just told me to check my mail to see if i had a withdrawal confirmation ( and i'm 100% sure i dont have any... i check everything from january 2013 to 2021 )


Another thing i forgot to mention is that i had 27 euros left on the platform, i received it on my bank account on April 30th 2013.

But for the BTC nothing. My account is still live and i'm a member since 2013 so yeah, they should be able to provide me some proof! Once again

what they gonna say to the AMF ( SEC ) ... "sorry we can't we dont have access it's lost" man this 110K euros, not 20 lol.

Totally agree with you, i'll do whatever i can!

Many thanks for your answers guys. i'll keep you posted.


Another important thing, if someone who has been in the same case in 2013, did he/she received a mail or something to confirm the withdrawal ?

[bL4nkcode]

I never received any mail informing me that they'll become paymium and i have to transfer my assets etc. After the hack in April 2013, they posted a
message on their website : here it is :

[...]

Your only bet is file a lawsuit against them as suggested above, paymium is under EU laws, so if you're located at or near EU it could be much easier, but of course, it will take a bit funds (I guess) and time to process, but it will be worth it once you win. Good luck.

[Dizzp]

I never received any mail informing me that they'll become paymium and i have to transfer my assets etc. After the hack in April 2013, they posted a
message on their website : here it is :

[...]

Your only bet is file a lawsuit against them as suggested above, paymium is under EU laws, so if you're located at or near EU it could be much easier, but of course, it will take a bit funds (I guess) and time to process, but it will be worth it once you win. Good luck.

Yes i'm french, i live in Paris like 10min away from their office.

Some news from Paymium, they called me 3 hours ago to apologize for the answers they gave me on the support.

They told they gonna investigate to see if indeed they sent my BTC or not. Also they asked me if i already contacted the AMF ( SEC ).

Maybe they have something to hide?

A friend of mine who also was a bitcoin-central user in 2013 forwarded me all the confirmation mails he received when he wanted to withdraw, and

also a mail to notify that they' were going to migrate from bitcoin-central to paymium.com ( Mail i also did not received ).


Anyway i'll know soon.

Thanks guys !

[BitMaxz]

Maybe they have something to hide?

I think they don't hide anything but they are afraid since you said that they ask if you contacted SEC?

It seems that they don't want your issue being spread and become trending because if there are more people who have Bitcoin on bitcoin-central at that time I'm sure they will also complain about their bitcoin to get a refund. So I feel that they don't just want it to happen because it would ruin their business.

[bL4nkcode]

Yes i'm french, i live in Paris like 10min away from their office.

Some news from Paymium, they called me 3 hours ago to apologize for the answers they gave me on the support.

They told they gonna investigate to see if indeed they sent my BTC or not. Also they asked me if i already contacted the AMF ( SEC ).

Maybe they have something to hide?

A friend of mine who also was a bitcoin-central user in 2013 forwarded me all the confirmation mails he received when he wanted to withdraw, and

also a mail to notify that they' were going to migrate from bitcoin-central to paymium.com ( Mail i also did not received ).


Anyway i'll know soon.

Thanks guys !

Good call! How about your expectations for their refund (if ever), is it in EUR based on 2013 worth 2 btc (+140 EUR) or a whole 2 BTC which is worth 100k EUR now?
This could be subjective on their terms IMO.

[Dizzp]

Maybe they have something to hide?

I think they don't hide anything but they are afraid since you said that they ask if you contacted SEC?

It seems that they don't want your issue being spread and become trending because if there are more people who have Bitcoin on bitcoin-central at that time I'm sure they will also complain about their bitcoin to get a refund. So I feel that they don't just want it to happen because it would ruin their business.

Indeed, that could also explain why they dont want the SEC to be involved in this case..

[Dizzp]

[/quote]
Good call! How about your expectations for their refund (if ever), is it in EUR based on 2013 worth 2 btc (+140 EUR) or a whole 2 BTC which is worth 100k EUR now?
This could be subjective on their terms IMO.
[/quote]


Well i bought 2 BTC not euros lol. So i want to reclaim what i paid for 

They already refunded me 27 euros i had on bitcoin-central.

[Dizzp]

Update :

When i asked them to provide my  transfers history  a withdrawal proof,  TXID or the wallet address where my 2 btc were sent to ) they just closed

the support ticket. They are unable to prove they gave me back my 2BTC i asked them 10 times at least..

Just be careful if you decide to buy btc on Paymium .

[Quickseller]

As per their support answer, they aren't going to help you. Because they grave the Bitcoin already since your account is empty. There should be history on your account, doesn't matter they moved to the new domain. The domain isn't related to the data host. Since your account is live then the fund is supposed to be there as well. I will say don't give up. Write their social media and try to take legal action. There is the possibility to get back your fund though it's not an easy task ever. But the amount isn't small right now, so try to do whatever you can to push them.

That's the disadvantage of storing funds into custodial wallet or exchange.

Nope they just told me to check my mail to see if i had a withdrawal confirmation ( and i'm 100% sure i dont have any... i check everything from january 2013 to 2021 )


Another thing i forgot to mention is that i had 27 euros left on the platform, i received it on my bank account on April 30th 2013.

But for the BTC nothing. My account is still live and i'm a member since 2013 so yeah, they should be able to provide me some proof! Once again

what they gonna say to the AMF ( SEC ) ... "sorry we can't we dont have access it's lost" man this 110K euros, not 20 lol.

Totally agree with you, i'll do whatever i can!

Many thanks for your answers guys. i'll keep you posted.


Another important thing, if someone who has been in the same case in 2013, did he/she received a mail or something to confirm the withdrawal ?

They are likely trying to determine if you are trying to involve government regulators in your dispute. 

They might be able to give you the txid of your withdrawal transaction they claim received a withdraw from your account. If they acknowledge your purchase but cannot even provide a claimed withdrawal transaction, IMO you probably have a strong case against them, but you would probably need to take legal action.

[Dizzp]

As per their support answer, they aren't going to help you. Because they grave the Bitcoin already since your account is empty. There should be history on your account, doesn't matter they moved to the new domain. The domain isn't related to the data host. Since your account is live then the fund is supposed to be there as well. I will say don't give up. Write their social media and try to take legal action. There is the possibility to get back your fund though it's not an easy task ever. But the amount isn't small right now, so try to do whatever you can to push them.

That's the disadvantage of storing funds into custodial wallet or exchange.

Nope they just told me to check my mail to see if i had a withdrawal confirmation ( and i'm 100% sure i dont have any... i check everything from january 2013 to 2021 )


Another thing i forgot to mention is that i had 27 euros left on the platform, i received it on my bank account on April 30th 2013.

But for the BTC nothing. My account is still live and i'm a member since 2013 so yeah, they should be able to provide me some proof! Once again

what they gonna say to the AMF ( SEC ) ... "sorry we can't we dont have access it's lost" man this 110K euros, not 20 lol.

Totally agree with you, i'll do whatever i can!

Many thanks for your answers guys. i'll keep you posted.


Another important thing, if someone who has been in the same case in 2013, did he/she received a mail or something to confirm the withdrawal ?

They are likely trying to determine if you are trying to involve government regulators in your dispute.  

They might be able to give you the txid of your withdrawal transaction they claim received a withdraw from your account. If they acknowledge your purchase but cannot even provide a claimed withdrawal transaction, IMO you probably have a strong case against them, but you would probably need to take legal action.

I also gave them an address ( their wallet address )  i found on this forum, when they were sending back BTC to their customer after the hack

( end of april - beginning of may 2013 ).

I told them it was to help them find my BTC address.

They answered me " this address is actually not yours " so they are perfectly capable to tell me what was mine right ?! or give me a txid !

yes they acknowledge i bought bitcoin, but once again :

- No historic/ transaction record is showing up on their website,

- i asked them 10 times to provide me a proof of withdrawal ( they never answered )

- when i asked them about the withdrawal confirmation mail i should have received, they answer me : " it may have been erased in the past or

went to the spam folder ",  i mean, i have all the others mail from them, why would i have deleted only this one...

so they just simply closed my support ticket without giving me any proof of withdrawal...

i contacted a lawyer and the french sec ( AMF ) i'll keep you  posted !