If your games aren't provably fair, stop claiming they are.

[crzy]

I don't know at all to check that. I just play based on their popularity with how they pay people to play there. But it is important to know how casino sites have "Probably Fair" even though we know the house always wins.
The big bonuses or promotions that casinos offer are usually a trap for people who don't care about the safety of their games.

I'm also basing on their popularity and so far I have a good experience with them.
Just looking at the numbers of OP, I can't relate honestly but if its confirm that this site is fooling gamblers with regards to this fairness then that is not a good site to trust with. Hopefully OP will also study the top gambling site today, because fairness is very important this is just our only way to at least be more profitable.

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[ultrloa]

I don't know at all to check that. I just play based on their popularity with how they pay people to play there. But it is important to know how casino sites have "Probably Fair" even though we know the house always wins.
The big bonuses or promotions that casinos offer are usually a trap for people who don't care about the safety of their games.

I'm also basing on their popularity and so far I have a good experience with them.
Just looking at the numbers of OP, I can't relate honestly but if its confirm that this site is fooling gamblers with regards to this fairness then that is not a good site to trust with. Hopefully OP will also study the top gambling site today, because fairness is very important this is just our only way to at least be more profitable.

Fairness is one of the important factor what a casino should have and if they fool their gamblers for telling that they are fair while its is really not a good gesture for them, And for lying about that it tells that casino has capabilities to scam their gamblers in future so its good to avoid them to avoid any loss in future and better stay on popular casino since they are more better than those casino which we didn't know their reputation and intention to grow as huge one.

[Welsh]

Only problem here is that not all players have the technical skills or are technical enough to know which casinos are genuine with their claims and which aren't. I see the provably fair as a motto on almost all crypto casinos. Since I don't know how to verify those claims, I just end up sticking with casinos that has been proven to be provably fair and sticked with them.

Any good site will provide you with all the information you need to guide you along the process of verifying their claims. After all, a fair website is one that provides their services to all, despite their lack of technical ability. To be honest, I don't usually play against the house, and prefer sports betting, so I can't really verify whether the top casinos have this sort of guide in place. Although, it should be.

I know,
 But see in case you playing in auto-mode for example, the house can easily manipulate the results to make you lose.. It is easy to detect what mode player is setting


 So without implementing a browser add-on for example that put new seed on every bet, (and save all the proofs data) you can't be sure of anything in such play !

If that's the case the site should have a provably fair way of verifying that they change the seed each time despite it being on a auto bet.

[Fatunad]

I don't know at all to check that. I just play based on their popularity with how they pay people to play there. But it is important to know how casino sites have "Probably Fair" even though we know the house always wins.
The big bonuses or promotions that casinos offer are usually a trap for people who don't care about the safety of their games.

I'm also basing on their popularity and so far I have a good experience with them.
Just looking at the numbers of OP, I can't relate honestly but if its confirm that this site is fooling gamblers with regards to this fairness then that is not a good site to trust with. Hopefully OP will also study the top gambling site today, because fairness is very important this is just our only way to at least be more profitable.

Fairness is one of the important factor what a casino should have and if they fool their gamblers for telling that they are fair while its is really not a good gesture for them, And for lying about that it tells that casino has capabilities to scam their gamblers in future so its good to avoid them to avoid any loss in future and better stay on popular casino since they are more better than those casino which we didn't know their reputation and intention to grow as huge one.

When you are making a business specially on gambling field which is mostly basing on long term aspect then you should able to accumulate that trust that you could get into the community and wont be tending to do those illegal and deceptive stuff for that sake because sooner or later those things would really be exposed and that would surely
be the end of your business once the public had able to bust out  that you are running a unfair casino which it will definitely give out bad impressions and would result
into a complete mess up which is really that very a typical kind of reaction.

[shield132]

This title is funny to me because none casino will stop claiming that they are provably fair. That's the whole idea behind that, they lie and cheat to earn more money. Also, as far as I understood, it's possible to make your casino provably unfair while users won't be able to claim that it's unfair, there was similar case on Fortunejack if I am right.

[suzanne5223]

It is like I have foreseen this kind of issue happening before I even talk about it in some of my previous when there are countless in the number of new crypto gambling sites on this forum.
The reason why they lied to be provably fair is simple, just to get the attention of newbies and to indirectly steal from their users. These are the reason why I don't choose new gambling or casino site except those I have to know for at least a year.

[Rengga Jati]

Yes exactly, if we have been aware of these unfair games, just let it be and move on.
But sometimes, we commonly realize this after experiencing several times, the unfair games. And true to think twice again why the games are like this, seem different with previously. That's time is enough to rethink and stop claiming.

The reason why they lied to be provably fair is simple, just to get the attention of newbies and to indirectly steal from their users. These are the reason why I don't choose new gambling or casino site except those I have to know for at least a year.

If this is so, it means that they only pay attention or mean to attract for the short term period only? not building their reputation very well. because, although they only mean to attract more to newbies, reputation is actually important enough. There is one day where newbies will search on reviews about the games and once they read about these unfair probabilities, they will rethink again using the platform.

[Lanatsa]

This title is funny to me because none casino will stop claiming that they are provably fair. That's the whole idea behind that, they lie and cheat to earn more money. Also, as far as I understood, it's possible to make your casino provably unfair while users won't be able to claim that it's unfair, there was similar case on Fortunejack if I am right.

For sure there any business out there that they would be telling and boast up that they aren't fair and of course they would keep on saying the most fair or fair casino where people do really easily believe but players aren't really that blind or dumb because whenever unusual things happen then there would be always that someone who do make out some investigation and if that time it had been proven out then youre fucked up as a business owner.

You could actually differentiate on something that is going as you go forward or long time playing.Its impossible that you cant really able to notice it out.

Therefore, always stick with known one or had been approved and recommended by most people.

[hello_good_sir]

Provably Fair is a buzz word. It's thrown around like other buzz words such as fully decentralized, anonymous, private, etc. The sites are just telling you what you want to hear. They know that the majority won't know the difference, or have the time and patience to research it themselves. Therefore, I don't think such claims will stop. They will keep making their rounds and get even worse.

The best thing to do is expose those who are lying and giving players the tools to check such claims themselves. 

I completely agree with this, and I don't know how this is essentially the first time that there has been an extensive list of casinos being called out for this stuff.

The fix is very simple. Spend less time and effort on frontend design for 1 week and develop a new provably fair system. Honestly not that hard.

For casinos unable to do this simple fix the only reason we have to assume is due to their illegitimacy. Reminds me of 999Dice.

[coinism]

Fairness is one of the important factor what a casino should have and if they fool their gamblers for telling that they are fair while its is really not a good gesture for them, And for lying about that it tells that casino has capabilities to scam their gamblers in future so its good to avoid them to avoid any loss in future and better stay on popular casino since they are more better than those casino which we didn't know their reputation and intention to grow as huge one.

Based on my experience winner is always casino and losers are always gamblers. If the platforms are fair then probability of winning must be even for both gamblers and casinos but its not the case. We have seen so many cases where gamblers lost all there money but no casino gets defaulter for paying to gamblers rather there profit continues to increase. Is this just a coincidence.

[Pmalek]

The fix is very simple. Spend less time and effort on frontend design for 1 week and develop a new provably fair system. Honestly not that hard.

The question is, do some casinos even want a provably fair system or do they just want you to think that they have one? I think it's the latter. They declare that they are provably fair knowing very well that for must players that will be enough to trust them with their coins. If they get caught, they will just think of something else. It's not like casinos with bad reputation go out of business. The fact that you are wearing a signature of one such site proves my point. 

[Haunebu]

For casinos unable to do this simple fix the only reason we have to assume is due to their illegitimacy. Reminds me of 999Dice.

I disagree with your opinion about developing different provably fair systems. This would just make everything more complicated. Instead, it would be better to develop a universal, certified system in order to get rid of all doubts.

This is a better solution when compared to experimenting with different systems and verifying bets manually in my opinion.

Based on my experience winner is always casino and losers are always gamblers. If the platforms are fair then probability of winning must be even for both gamblers and casinos but its not the case. We have seen so many cases where gamblers lost all there money but no casino gets defaulter for paying to gamblers rather there profit continues to increase. Is this just a coincidence.

Hilarious. You advocate fairness while advertising the biggest scam site in the crypto gambling world? Speechless. Also, players do win now and then in legit gambling sites even though the house will win majority of the time.

[AicecreaME]

I'm not an expert on the technical side of this problem,but I agree with your statement.
Casino owners must not lie to their customers.Being honest to your clients is a very important part of doing business.This applies to every business,not just the gambling business.
On the other hand,the people should be skeptical about all casinos and they should just play for fun and bet small amounts of crypto.Gambling with the assumption that you will make money and betting big amounts of crypto in slots/dice/hi lo games is a recipe for disaster.
At the end of the day,the casino always wins.It doesn't matter if the games are "probably fair" or rigged.

I agree with you, mate. Any business requires transparency of its products and services so that they could gain people's trust as well as to have permanent and more clients. In this kind of industry, the casino establishments must be true to their customers because if they won't, their reputation would be at stake. We are talking about money and reliability here. Once the customer lost their trust to you, consider them gone. Money is very much needed in this trying times, hence we should be able to make the most of it. Casinos should not be greedy because after all, they are making a profit from their regular customers.

The gamblers should also always be on their guard to check if the house is still playing fair. As a gambler, it is your responsibility to take good care of your fund because gambling is risky enough. It gets riskier the moment you don't analyze or double check what needs to be looked at. In addition, the ever told rule to only risk what you can afford to lose so that you won't end up devastated later if things don't go on your favor.

[suzanne5223]

The reason why they lied to be provably fair is simple, just to get the attention of newbies and to indirectly steal from their users. These are the reason why I don't choose new gambling or casino site except those I have to know for at least a year.

[snip]
There is one day where newbies will search on reviews about the games and once they read about these unfair probabilities, they will rethink again using the platform.

Let just hope the newbies will try to do some search on gambling before using it because we still have a lot of them complaining about being scammed by 1xbit despite all the negative trust and the accusation raised about them
Having said that, I won't trust reviews to do the job cause some of the cheated casinos still find a way to manipulate it.

[nakamura12]

Let just hope the newbies will try to do some search on gambling before using it because we still have a lot of them complaining about being scammed by 1xbit despite all the negative trust and the accusation raised about them
Having said that, I won't trust reviews to do the job cause some of the cheated casinos still find a way to manipulate it.

Not all will do a research first before gambling. There are some newbies posting new thread regarding to the site they accessed to gamble and most of them experience being not paid for breaking the rules as what most said. Well, 1xbit is the most famous in my opinion. Even a review sites included 1xbit and it's sister company then give a review that is why many newbies are complaining about 1xbit because of bias reviews that shouldn't be included in a review sites except paid ones. We can't force them since they are paid to shill.

[Saint-loup]

Are there any caveats with using random.org within this process? Is there any provably fair that does not involve the traditional client-server seed combo?

Yes. Someone can intercept the connection to Random.org and hijack the domain to point to a fake copy that outputs tainted random numbers.

Hence why you should never rely on an external service for generating probably fair hashes.

Have you ever read a story about an exploit like the one you described? Do you really think random.org will provide datas to serious clients for critical use cases without any safeguards? That's not what they claim

The Signed API has all the functions of the Basic API and also lets you prove that your random values really came from RANDOM.ORG (authenticity) and that your application has not changed them (integrity). This is useful for many applications, such as a finance, auditing, games and lotteries.

https://api.random.org/dashboard

Secure HTTP
4096-bit EV-certificate ensures authenticity and privacy of your random data while in transit

Digital signing and sequence numbering
Allows strong non-repudiation, suitable for a wide range of applications, ranging from finance, compliance and accounting to games and gambling

Authentic true random data
Originating from RANDOM.ORG's proven true random number generators;
Operational since 1998 – we're here to stay

https://api.random.org/features

[lienfaye]

The reason why they lied to be provably fair is simple, just to get the attention of newbies and to indirectly steal from their users. These are the reason why I don't choose new gambling or casino site except those I have to know for at least a year.

Well, if you're not careful and not taking time to make a research first on where casino to gamble, you might really end up in this kind of site. Claiming their games are provably fair but the truth is not, especially those to good to be true offer to lure the gamblers.

One of the reason why I rarely trust a new sites because I still prefer the old casinos with good reputation.

[mak013]

Let just hope the newbies will try to do some search on gambling before using it because we still have a lot of them complaining about being scammed by 1xbit despite all the negative trust and the accusation raised about them
Having said that, I won't trust reviews to do the job cause some of the cheated casinos still find a way to manipulate it.

Newbies don`t do research. They mostly wants easy money. In such a way they are choosing the most attractive casinos - more bonuses, more discounts. Often changes casinos for getting "welcome bonus". It will continue until newbie willn`t get his own set of mistakes. After that he usually ceases to be a newbie.

[suzanne5223]

Let just hope the newbies will try to do some search on gambling before using it because we still have a lot of them complaining about being scammed by 1xbit despite all the negative trust and the accusation raised about them
Having said that, I won't trust reviews to do the job cause some of the cheated casinos still find a way to manipulate it.

Not all will do a research first before gambling. There are some newbies posting new thread regarding to the site they accessed to gamble and most of them experience being not paid for breaking the rules as what most said.

Not doing diligent research about a gambling site before using it is the major problem newbies have and the sad part is that they will come to this forum for an assistant after the damage is done already when there's no way the forum could help.

Well, 1xbit is the most famous in my opinion. Even a review sites included 1xbit and it's sister company then give a review that is why many newbies are complaining about 1xbit because of bias reviews that shouldn't be included in a review sites except paid ones. We can't force them since they are paid to shill.

Review sites not being honest about the service is the major problem we have when it comes to gambling but trust is an expensive material in the crypto ecosystem so newbies should not rely on reviews site opinions only cause they mostly focus on their paycheck.

The reason why they lied to be provably fair is simple, just to get the attention of newbies and to indirectly steal from their users. These are the reason why I don't choose new gambling or casino site except those I have to know for at least a year.

Well, if you're not careful and not taking time to make a research first on where casino to gamble, you might really end up in this kind of site. Claiming their games are provably fair but the truth is not, especially those to good to be true offer to lure the gamblers.

One of the reason why I rarely trust a new sites because I still prefer the old casinos with good reputation.

I agreed with what you said but we have also experienced some old gambling sites which also gone bad either and I think it is better to understand a gambling owner's dedication and enthusiasm before using a gambling site.

[aleandromagno]

I found this provably fair game description on the internet. I'm not technically good, but in these two cases the use of the word "seed" seemed similar to me.

PROVABLY FAIR
When you open the game page the server generates a secret and a seed and reveals its hash (using HMAC SHA256 algorithm). The server secret represents initial reels positions. The server seed is a cryptographically secure random alpha-numeric string. The hash of these 2 strings helps to ensure that the initial reels positions are not altered after you choose the number of lines and bet amount. After the game is finished the server secret and the server seed are revealed, so you can easily calculate and verify the hash.

When you play a game you can pass an extra custom string – client seed (if it’s not specified a random number is automatically generated by your browser). The server will then calculate another hash using the server secret, the server seed and the client seed. The last 5 chars of this hash (representing a hexadecimal value) will be converted to an integer. Each digit in this number will result in an extra number of spins on the corresponding reel (from left to right). Because the client seed can not be predicted by the server the number of extra spins is completely random and hence you can be sure that the game result is fair.

This description seems very credible to me (as for technical noob). Could it be the same cheating in both cases?