When Religion and Finance [Bitcoin] Overlap and Clash

[Slow death]

It is proven that religion is something that is eating away at the world, it is not bringing anything good on the contrary these religious fanatics are a cancer to the world. if people want to be free, want to use bitcoin freely and want to earn money freely then they must not be religious fanatics, they must respect and comply with government laws even if some laws are nasty joke, but they are better than religion

[1715349156]

1715349156

[1715349156]

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[im posible]

I have heard this since last year and I think the fatwa issued by MUI is still relevant to what I am doing today.
Because according to the MUI Fatwa, bitcoin is said to be haram when used as an investment because its value has high fluctuations so that it is feared to resemble gambling based on chance. However, if it is only used as a medium of exchange, the value is Mubah (if you do it it's okay, but if you don't do it you will get a reward).

[bhooscream]

It is proven that religion is something that is eating away at the world, it is not bringing anything good on the contrary these religious fanatics are a cancer to the world. if people want to be free, want to use bitcoin freely and want to earn money freely then they must not be religious fanatics, they must respect and comply with government laws even if some laws are nasty joke, but they are better than religion

Don't compare Laws with Religion. It is very sad to see people state that laws are better than Religion. Don't you understand that laws are human-made, while Religion is created by God? Anyway, please don't be OOT, we are only talking about MUI statement, not about Religion. I know you may hate people who are fanatic with Religion, but it is their right to obey Religion. Don't spread hate about Religion, buddy! Please respect each other.

[marilynmanson21]

I think things like this will still be in a long debate.
Talking about the majority, it may be true that Islam dominates and becomes the majority in Indonesia, but it does not mean that other religions and opinions are ruled out.
Besides that, the rules may only be mostly for those in Indonesia but it seems that things like this will be considered a breeze and I think because this kind of thing is only religious but not bound by laws in the country

but this kind of thing is really weird, in my opinion
too eccentric, by issuing statements that make pros and cons in the general public

[Gyfts]

The group of Muslims that stand against the use of bitcoin connecting with the religious morals coming up with opposition serves as a promotion for bitcoin among the Muslims who haven't known about bitcoin. Very limited number of Muslims, Christians, and other religion people follow their holy book. So, this is up to the users whether to use bitcoin or not.

It isn't clearly mentioned about the respective phrase that briefs about the uncertainty and wagering. If so, stocks too have the same features. With cryptocurrency it is found high whereas with stocks this can be found low. This is some form of fear among the islamic leaders and they try to keep the common man under control in the name of religion.

Islam requires a strict adherence to the Quran, and it is not permissible to gamble from most Islamic interpretations, so technically Bitcoin would not work in any Islamic society. Christian societies, or any westernized society predicated on Judeo-Christian values won't have a problem implementing a bitcoin based financial system. Even the moderate muslims that hardly follow their holy book would probably be against Bitcoin. You think any country in the Middle East would ever willingly adopt crypto? 

[realcrypto]

I don't believe what I am not convinced  no matter what any Religion say about it. The only part of Religion I hold dear is the part that ask us to love one another and love God. There is always clash between Religion and new technology. Individuals that are Muslim still buy and sell bitcoin not minding the controversy.

[amihada]

As long as there is no gambling or casino element in the sale or any elements that are forbidden in Islam, I think it's okay, for example, investing in digital gold or digital oil is legal, just like buying gold in the real world, gold is not forbidden in the Islamic world.

[deadmousehat]

fellow Muslims with different sects can clash. Not all those who strictly adhere to Islamic Sharia law are willing to follow these rules. Many Muslims still buy bitcoin. In fact, I've heard that storing money in a bank is haram. It's like a Muslim can't keep up with technological advances.

[Saint-loup]

Religion, organized religion in particular, is basically focused on spiritual matters, those relating to faith and the supreme being. Once it crosses the spiritual border and enters the mundane world, a clash cannot be avoided.

This is in relation to Indonesia's national Islamic council's declaration of Bitcoin as haram or forbidden. The reason being is that Bitcoin is said to have the elements of uncertainty and wagering.

While the country's top Islamic body's declaration is not legally binding, it is influential to the lives of hundreds of millions of Indonesians who are Muslims. While Bitcoin trading continues, those who strictly adhere to the Islamic Sharia law might find it in direct conflict to their religious morals.

I'm interested to know your opinion on this. I assume there are a lot of Muslim Indonesians in this forum as well as Muslims from other parts of the world. What can you say about this? Which side are you?

Sources:

1. https://cointelegraph.com/news/indonesia-s-national-islamic-council-declares-bitcoin-haram
2. https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2021/11/11/indonesias-religious-leaders-declare-crypto-illegal-for-muslims-report/
3. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/crypto-haram-says-indonesian-islamic-113951771.html

I don't understand why you've chosen such a vague title, I wouldn't have found your thread if I wasn't reading posts of someone else. Why didn't you clearly write that Indonesian muslim authorities have issued a fatwa against Bitcoin in your title? There are many indonesian people on Bitcointalk, then the community should be aware of that.

[eaLiTy]

This is in relation to Indonesia's national Islamic council's declaration of Bitcoin as haram or forbidden. The reason being is that Bitcoin is said to have the elements of uncertainty and wagering.

What about the other Islamic countries viewing this new market, i am sure there will be resistance at first because they cannot comprehend the evolving technology and there are other Islamic countries in the world and i am waiting to hear their position on the cryptocurrency market, whether they will also come with with the same conclusion or a split decision  .

[Luqman]

What about the other Islamic countries viewing this new market

I think it won't be so different because the fundamental is the same, Qur'an and hadith. But may be a bit different if it is viewed from different perceptions, it will depend on the understanding of the Islamic institution in the countries. I ever read the statements about the status of Bitcoin in the other Islamic countries, it won't be haram as long as no gambling elements and danger in investing Bitcoin. So, if we invest or trade safely with sufficient knowledge, I think it is not haram.

[perfect999]

Religion, organized religion in particular, is basically focused on spiritual matters, those relating to faith and the supreme being. Once it crosses the spiritual border and enters the mundane world, a clash cannot be avoided.

This is in relation to Indonesia's national Islamic council's declaration of Bitcoin as haram or forbidden. The reason being is that Bitcoin is said to have the elements of uncertainty and wagering.

While the country's top Islamic body's declaration is not legally binding, it is influential to the lives of hundreds of millions of Indonesians who are Muslims. While Bitcoin trading continues, those who strictly adhere to the Islamic Sharia law might find it in direct conflict to their religious morals.

Religious leaders would always say anything, but let’s not forget that these people are also human beings like us and really can’t be right at all times. Sometimes when your religious leaders say something, it is up to you to go home and think about it another it is something that is right or not. They can’t be right at all times, and moreover I don’t see anything that is wrong with for someone investing into cryptocurrency.

It is simply an investment and a currency, but some people can decide to use it for gambling, lending, and other purposes, which might be wrong depending on the religion that you are into. But as a simple investment? Then I don’t see anything wrong with it.

[Mr.sprin]

what is forbidden in Islam such as gambling, drunkenness or places that serve both are prohibited from visiting as well as investment if the coin being invested has something to do with what is prohibited as I mentioned earlier then it is clearly haram but if the coin invested has no element of gambling or drunkenness or the like I think is allowed,

[andriarto]

If it is observed that there are still many disagreements, even though the scholars in the country, from various points of view, some say it is haram or halal with certain rules. but for me it all comes back to us personally, if we get money from here, and provide a lot of benefits, especially for people around us, then why are we arguing about that problem. alcohol can be halal under certain conditions. Sorry, that's just my personal opinion

[coinycoiny]

Some people believe in God
Some people believe 911 was caused by the US Government
Some people believe the earth if flat
Some people believe Ethereum is awesome
Some people believe Tether is not a scan
Some people believe Bitcoin is going to take over the world

Fact is, humans are extremely gullible, make sure you are correct about your own beliefs before criticising others.

But, I doubt most of you reading this are capable of that as you are already in your own cult.