Bitcoin ecosystem’s weakness

[bbc.reporter]

I have read an article that the Swedish regulators are proposing a ban on cryptomining in the European Union.

If they ban it or regulate it, this presently shows a weakness in the bitcoin ecosystem. Anyone can argue that they might not do it because half or more of their energy sources are renewables. However, the regulators can always have the ability to ban cryptomining because it has become a business that needs regulator permits and licenses to begin operation or be approved to operate. The danger of a ban will always be there.

I reckon there should be a development and engineering team formed to research on Asic resistance. Users should be given back the ability to mine in the privacy of their own homes where the government has no right to stop them.

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[Darker45]

You know an attack on Bitcoin when you see one. This is it. This is not really about making the world a better place. This is about trying to bring Bitcoin down. You see hypocrisy when you see one.

While these Nordic countries are indeed to be emulated in terms of utilizing renewable energy, they are actually making huge money out of petroleum and oil products. Look at Sweden itself, the one that is talking. One of the country's top export products is mineral fuel, giving them billions in USD.^[1] Look at its neighbor, Norway, which is also popular in terms of renewable energy. The country is highly dependent on oil. It is one of the topmost oil exporters in the world.^[2]

And why the ban? Could Bitcoin mining not run on renewables?

It is interesting to note that the rebut against Sweden's suggestion is coming from the country’s state-owned power generation company itself, among others. Vattenfall makes it clear that rather than a problem, Bitcoin mining could actually be of help to electricity producers in terms of providing balance of loads on electrical grids.^[3]

Moreover, why not make lemonades out of lemons? That is, if these countries are truly supportive of innovation and development. These Nordic countries are cold. Why don't they try to emulate what North Vancouver is doing? This Canadian city is trying to provide heat to its residents from Bitcoin mining. Thereby, reducing the use of natural gas and decarbonizing the production of heat.^[4]

The point is that this is merely looking for a way to attack Bitcoin.

[1] https://www.worldstopexports.com/swedens-top-10-exports/
[2] https://www.worldstopexports.com/worlds-top-oil-exports-country/
[3] https://news.bitcoin.com/swedish-regulators-call-for-eu-ban-on-crypto-mining-power-company-defends-industry/
[4] https://gadgets.ndtv.com/cryptocurrency/news/cryptocurrency-bitcoin-mining-heat-north-vancouver-2022-2578990

[The Cryptovator]

Banning Bitcoin mining from a specific jurisdiction is really a weakness of the Bitcoin ecosystem? Bitcoin mining wouldn't depend on only a jurisdiction, what happened when China banned Bitcoin ban? Nothing, it's just an impact on Bitcoin price for a small time. But didn't affect on overall Bitcoin ecosystem. A few jurisdictions will ban and a few jurisdictions will allow. That's what ecosystem.

However, it would help to understand the real story if you share the source. Your idea of mining Bitcoin in the house wouldn't help much if the government ban it. Because you are doing then illegal activities according to the government which is punishable. Same as my country ban Bitcoin and mining, so it will be illegal to mine Bitcoin in house. If in case legal authorities notice that then it will be punishable.

[tranthidung]

They might (or not) do this but they try to accuse that Bitcoin mining is harmful for the Earth environment. It is kinda FUD if we know (based on data) that Bitcoin mining industry is green and sustainable enough.

From [1-3], Bitcoin mining industry uses somewhere about 70% of its energy from green & sustainable resources. Another topic to read is Debunk the "Bitcoin is an environmental disaster" argument [4] and other articles from EndtheFUD.org

[1] https://coinshares.com/research/bitcoin-mining-network-december-2019
[2] https://bitcoinminingcouncil.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/2021.07.01-BMC-Q2-2021-Materials.pdf
[3] https://bitcoinminingcouncil.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/2021.07.01-Mining-Council-Press-Release-Q2.pdf
[4] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5325350.0

[StarKay]

I reckon there should be a development and engineering team formed to research on Asic resistance. Users should be given back the ability to mine in the privacy of their own homes where the government has no right to stop them.

Inasmuch that I agree with your suggestion on the development of energy efficient Bitcoin miners that can operate within homes, I don't think that will stop the government from its persistent attack on Bitcoin.

The major weakness of Bitcoin is not how it is mined but that it has a strong adversary called centralised governments that want to control every aspect of our lives.

Bitcoin has survived this attacks for years and hopefully someday the government will give up and accept that Bitcoin is a part of people's private live.

[so98nn]

That is a good point to discuss. I am always wondering why government is trying to stop such operations if they know very well they getting paid for the electricity bills and also getting the taxes whenever miners sell the crypto for fiat. The whole ecosystem is properly managed by self driven moves. There is no hiding of the assets as long as miners are selling it for the fiat currency and when the money is deposited in the bank accounts.

What I mean is simple, there is no illegal activities as such as long as we are mining and giving back what is government entitled for (taxes).

Moreover let us stop using the word or arguing statement that renewable energy or synthetic energy, none of that matters because there are IT giants around the world use more energy than bitcoin mining operations. Both the worlds paying what they are using so I see no point in shutting down the mining.

[pooya87]

If they ban it or regulate it, this presently shows a weakness in the bitcoin ecosystem.

Bangladesh banned bitcoin many years ago and Japan, El Salvador, and a lot of other countries adopted bitcoin. Neither showed "weakness in bitcoin ecosystem", this one is no different.

Anyone can argue that they might not do it because half or more of their energy sources are renewables. However, the regulators can always have the ability to ban cryptomining because it has become a business that needs regulator permits and licenses to begin operation or be approved to operate. The danger of a ban will always be there.

They can't ban cryptomining, they can only ban mining farms, and only in their own jurisdiction which means miners will migrate to other places.
Keep in mind that the Europe's hashrate is not really that high specially since Europeans have high electricity costs.

I reckon there should be a development and engineering team formed to research on Asic resistance.

From what I've seen there is no such thing as "ASIC resistance". If anything can be mined with any kind of hardware, a more efficient hardware would be invented to mine it faster and someone will purchase large numbers of that device to have a bigger "share" of the total hashrate.

[GeorgeJohn]

Many countries are rising up to attacks bitcoin development and is not today that we have started having or hearing this method of information of bitcoin been ban in a country, it's obvious that bitcoin ecosystem is becoming strong daily even though it happens in Europeans country to obstruct bitcoin mining industry due to accusations of energy consumption in her country, i believe immensely they will be another dimension to resurrect bitcoin from another format, i can see that the possibility is there for them to ban cryptomining because of the power supply or electricity tariff in their domain.

[Wind_FURY]

If they ban it or regulate it, this presently shows a weakness in the bitcoin ecosystem.

Bangladesh banned bitcoin many years ago and Japan, El Salvador, and a lot of other countries adopted bitcoin. Neither showed "weakness in bitcoin ecosystem", this one is no different.

Anyone can argue that they might not do it because half or more of their energy sources are renewables. However, the regulators can always have the ability to ban cryptomining because it has become a business that needs regulator permits and licenses to begin operation or be approved to operate. The danger of a ban will always be there.

They can't ban cryptomining, they can only ban mining farms, and only in their own jurisdiction which means miners will migrate to other places.
Keep in mind that the Europe's hashrate is not really that high specially since Europeans have high electricity costs.

I reckon there should be a development and engineering team formed to research on Asic resistance.

From what I've seen there is no such thing as "ASIC resistance". If anything can be mined with any kind of hardware, a more efficient hardware would be invented to mine it faster and someone will purchase large numbers of that device to have a bigger "share" of the total hashrate.

I believe OP has a point. I have said it before, the centralization, and “cartelization” of mining has become a problem, but NOT a problem WITHOUT a solution. The bans will be mere inconveniences. Plus finding the solution for “ASIC resistance” is a useless undertaking.

ASIC Resitance is nothing but a buzzword, https://medium.com/hackernoon/asic-resistance-is-nothing-but-a-blockchain-buzzword-b91d3d770366

[pealr12]

If government want minners to be licensed to be able to fully operate legally what is the big deal there! Yeah I get the decentralise and whole lot of anonymous talk, but what can possibly happen if this is implemented?
Those who are shouting government wants to control their lives, what about people like Elon Musk and other successful businesses people all over the world, why have they survive even with this government control and regulations?
Honestly I don't think it matters much even if government implement regulations on mining or crypto, it won't stop anything.

[OnlineCasinoBoard]

I have read an article that the Swedish regulators are proposing a ban on cryptomining in the European Union.

If they ban it or regulate it, this presently shows a weakness in the bitcoin ecosystem. Anyone can argue that they might not do it because half or more of their energy sources are renewables. However, the regulators can always have the ability to ban cryptomining because it has become a business that needs regulator permits and licenses to begin operation or be approved to operate. The danger of a ban will always be there.

I reckon there should be a development and engineering team formed to research on Asic resistance. Users should be given back the ability to mine in the privacy of their own homes where the government has no right to stop them.

European Union will be strong enough for the development of cryptocurrency. Many people was not doing bitcoin mining for the less profit or No profit from it. This is cause of sudden fall and rise in the price of bitcoin. If the cryptomining was end in the European union. It leads to the instability of cryptocurrency flow.Government should reconsider their decision on this.

[usekevin]

I have read an article that the Swedish regulators are proposing a ban on cryptomining in the European Union.

If they ban it or regulate it, this presently shows a weakness in the bitcoin ecosystem. Anyone can argue that they might not do it because half or more of their energy sources are renewables. However, the regulators can always have the ability to ban cryptomining because it has become a business that needs regulator permits and licenses to begin operation or be approved to operate. The danger of a ban will always be there.

I reckon there should be a development and engineering team formed to research on Asic resistance. Users should be given back the ability to mine in the privacy of their own homes where the government has no right to stop them.

European Union will be strong enough for the development of cryptocurrency. Many people was not doing bitcoin mining for the less profit or No profit from it. This is cause of sudden fall and rise in the price of bitcoin. If the cryptomining was end in the European union. It leads to the instability of cryptocurrency flow.Government should reconsider their decision on this.

Mining of cryptocurrency is the essential one and it maybe costlier. But some will deny to do such things.Some will ready to do occupy huge profit from it.When people inverse their money, it's good stand to earn money from it.Rather they invest in mining, they gonna a rock the future.Their current profit maybe the low.When the bitcoin rocl the party, surely they will gain double or triple of current profit.Holding of bitcoin is essential to gain huge profit from it.

[Brus123]

If there was not be an opportunity to mine Bitcoin any more, it would mean that Bitcoin's blockchain is locked as without miners, transactions can't be added to blockachain and as a result they can't be completed. But I don't think that all countries are likely to forbid Bitcoin mining. Even if it is widely applicable there will be countries that will still mine Bitcoin as it yields good profit to them.

[kryptqnick]

There've been a few threads here about the Swedish proposal already, but the focus is a bit different in yours, so I guess it's fair. I don't think that mining is a weakness of Bitcoin. Firstly, as you've said, if the energy comes from renewable sources, it's not a problem. Secondly, mining has a great save: adjustment of the difficulty rate. So even if the EU or some other authority bans mining on their territory, there will always be some miners elsewhere, and so the party will continue, so to speak. As for ASIC resistance, can this truly be done for Bitcoin? And also, what will the repercussions be? People moving to mine Bitcoin on graphic cards, which are already impossible to get because people mine Ethereum on them? Also, the electricity bills will probably give miners away if mining's banned, and many simply won't risk breaking the law.

[dothebeats]

If they are promoting the use of renewables for a better and sustainable future, why then would the need to propose a ban for bitcoin mining? I just don't see the connection at all. If they want to size down our carbon footprint, they would also pull the trigger on other industries' direction that consume just as much (or even more) energy with the bitcoin network.

With regards to moving to a new ASIC-resistant algorithm, that area is being worked on, and some proof-of-concepts were already established, and the results are not very pretty.

[DaveF]

Keep in mind, if you follow the OPs post they are somewhat anti-bitcoin or at least anti-POW. Or at least they come off they way IMO.
But, much like the China ban or any other ban it really does not matter.
There are more then enough places to mine, and several places that are actively enticing miners to mine. Several states in the US, and countries all over the world.

The current PoW is not a weakness it's a strength. If you don't like us mining here, we will pack out crap and move and a few months later we are back where people want us.

-Dave

[Kakmakr]

I can guarantee you.... there will always be a country that would give a big f_ck you to the rest of the world ...and they will allow Bitcoin and Crypto mining. When the hashing power goes down... the difficulty goes down and these people in those countries will once again be able to mine Bitcoin with GPU's and CPU's.

You will even see people moving their whole Bitcoin operation from these "banned" countries to the Bitcoin friendly countries and everything will stay the same. (Like we saw with the Chinese banning Bitcoin mining in China) 

[stompix]

When the hashing power goes down... the difficulty goes down and these people in those countries will once again be able to mine Bitcoin with GPU's and CPU's.

Yeah right...
An Nvidia 3090 does 5000 Mh/s that's by comparison 1/20000 what a S19j does.
So if every family on this planet would have a card that in some places is 6 times more expensive than the average wage, you could still perform a 51% attack with just  100k ASICs. Oh and we will burn 100x times the energy we do now!

The moment the coin is profitable again to mine with a GPU not even thinking of a CPU it is probably after an asteroid impact that left only 0.001% of the population and no electrical grid on the surface of the earth.

[aoluain]

Keep in mind, if you follow the OPs post they are somewhat anti-bitcoin or at least anti-POW. Or at least they come off they way IMO.
But, much like the China ban or any other ban it really does not matter.
There are more then enough places to mine, and several places that are actively enticing miners to mine. Several states in the US, and countries all over the world.

The current PoW is not a weakness it's a strength. If you don't like us mining here, we will pack out crap and move and a few months later we are back where people want us.

-Dave

This was my thinking as I read through the thread, Sweden banning Bitcoin mining
(farms) will only open the door for some other country to benefit from the miners
who abandon Sweden. Its sweden's loss.

Maybe sweden is picking and choosing how they meet their emissions targets
and they are picking Bitcoin rather than the obvious fossil fuel industry as mentioned
above by @Darker45, blinker vision again.

[hatshepsut93]

Users should be given back the ability to mine in the privacy of their own homes where the government has no right to stop them.

Sounds good, doesn't work. Ethereum also envisioned that because of GPU mining they will have a more decentralized network, and yet no one really mines at home with their single GPU that they bought for gaming, almost all mining is done by farms, and they tend to be large data centers and not small-scale home farms. And don't forget how it ruined the GPU market and GPUs essentially got turned into professional tools unavailable for general population.