The paradox of Bitcoin adoption

[BlackHatCoiner]

Can we really call it Bitcoin adoption when Bitcoin just gets incorporated into the Visa/Mastercard/PayPal systems and real coins are rarely moved on blockchain? I was thinking more about directly sending and accepting Bitcoin without any intermediaries, because that was the point from the beginning.

Where does that refer to? Bitrefill? You buy the gift card using bitcoin and redeem it without intermediaries.

There's a ton of other reasons why people are not using Bitcoin as a currency, but here I want to specifically discuss the problem between merchants and their customers that neither makes a first move in adoption.

Sure, but the main reason is that they don't respect those three I mentioned for if they did, I believe we'd all be using bitcoin at the moment.

Although I should add that even with this situation we are getting adoption in both camps: investors and spenders.

So here's another issue:  The usage of the investors can affect the spenders' side negatively, but not the opposite. The fact that it's seen more speculatively affects those who want to use it as a currency. This is what, after all, makes it difficult to achieve adoption in a global level.

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[Kakmakr]

Merchants don't adopt Bitcoin because their clients don't use it. Clients don't adopt it because merchants don't support it, and people want to have a payment method that can be used anywhere they go. How can this vicious circle be broken? Who will make the first move?

And by adopt I mean adopt for payments, not hodl it as an investment.

The vicious circle will be broken when the governments starts to re-define Bitcoin as a currency and not as a Commodity. Merchants cannot accept Bitcoin legally if their government does not accept it as legal tender. A lot of these merchants are doing this via Payment processors to bypass these restrictions. 

Just have a look at what happened in El Salvador when their government accepted Bitcoin as legal tender.... the Merchants quickly started to accept Bitcoin as a payment option... even the large food chains like Mc Donald and Burger King. 

[aprilnot]

Merchants don't adopt Bitcoin because their clients don't use it. Clients don't adopt it because merchants don't support it, and people want to have a payment method that can be used anywhere they go. How can this vicious circle be broken? Who will make the first move?

And by adopt I mean adopt for payments, not hodl it as an investment.

that's why there must be a liaison, in this case a third party to bridge this. let's take the example of what the el salvador government has done some time ago. they act as intermediaries between merchants and users. make regulations and then slowly adoption can be done.

[rizqoAD]

In my opinion, currently Bitcoin cannot be used as a full payment adoption, this is because not everyone, both buyers and sellers, accept Bitcoin. Only a small part and by mutual agreement use Bitcoin as a means of payment, currently Bitcoin is very popular in the world because it is an investment that provides many benefits. I understand that there are some people like you who want full adoption to be used as a medium of exchange but this has not materialized as people prefer it as an investment like gold.

[hatshepsut93]

As for your paradox, I used to see it that way too but no more. I believe it is a natural process that will happen slowly. When there is demand both sides will adopt bitcoin.

As I see it, there are 4 scenarios:

1. Merchants make the first move and adopt it proactively so clients start using it more

2. Clients massively ask merchants to add Bitcoin option and those follow

3. Both happening simultaneously in roughly equal proportion

4. None of this happens and adoption stagnates

Where does that refer to? Bitrefill? You buy the gift card using bitcoin and redeem it without intermediaries.

Was thinking more about PayPal and various Bitcoin payment cards on Visa/Mastercard networks, as well as some custodial wallets.

[South Park]

Merchants don't adopt Bitcoin because their clients don't use it. Clients don't adopt it because merchants don't support it, and people want to have a payment method that can be used anywhere they go. How can this vicious circle be broken? Who will make the first move?

And by adopt I mean adopt for payments, not hodl it as an investment.

I think we are already seeing this cycle being broken, before the pandemic businesses did not felt the need to adopt bitcoin as the economy was going well, now that things are not as clear they need to get all the money they can to keep their operations profitable, so some merchants are already accepting bitcoin on their businesses, even if right now this does not bring a lot of profit it is better than nothing, and they think they can get a bigger share of that market in the future as people will prefer to spend their money on businesses in which they have being spending their money for some time, so they see this as an investment that will pay even bigger dividends in the future.

[o_e_l_e_o]

The onus is primarily on us, as bitcoin users, to drive adoption.

It is far easier for an individual to set up a wallet, buy some bitcoin, and then be ready to spend it, than it is for a merchant to set up a wallet, sign up to a payment processor or set up their own self hosted mechanism, set up a conversion in to fiat, educate their staff on how to use it, buy the necessary hardware or terminals, work out all the tax implications, and so on. No merchant is going to go through all those steps unless they know it is going to be worth their time, they know there is a demand to accept bitcoin payments, and they know that they will be a profit out of it. And so it is up to us to show that such a demand exists.

Seek out merchants which already accept bitcoin and use them. Talk to merchants who don't and encourage them to do so, or let them know they have lost your business by refusing to do so.

[BlackHatCoiner]

the Merchants quickly started to accept Bitcoin as a payment option... even the large food chains like Mc Donald and Burger King. 

They didn't just started it themselves. They were forced to accept it. That's kinda against what we, as community, support. We don't want to go off half-cocked with the adoption. Whoever respects what bitcoin has to offer is welcomed to allow it.

Was thinking more about PayPal and various Bitcoin payment cards on Visa/Mastercard networks, as well as some custodial wallets.

There are? What's the point? There's a lightning network standing there...

[witcher_sense]

As for my humble opinion, the biggest obstacle for Bitcoin becoming a really utilized form of money is the fact that people are HODLING into the Bitcoin they got all because they are expecting that any day from now the value can rise and they gonna be regretting why they were tempted to use their Bitcoin to buy a shoe online or to have a drink of a cup of coffee with a shop that accepts Bitcoin.

Have you ever heard of Gresham's law? In a nutshell, it states that overvalued money drives out undervalued money from the market. What does it mean? In our case, it means that people tend to spend their fiat money because they clearly understand that fiat's purchasing power is gradually declining. It is happening because governments all over the world debase their currency through some sort of money printing out of thin air or credit creation. Today our fiat money has a higher price than it will tomorrow. Bitcoin, on the other hand, has been appreciating in value because the demand for it increases, and the dollar's price, in which bitcoin's value is measured, is declining. So, people believe the dollar is overvalued because its price tends to zero in the long-term, but bitcoin is undervalued because its price tends to infinity. Given that people have both currencies on hand, they spend the overvalued and hold undervalued. When or if the dollar disappears, people will have only one option, which is Bitcoin. They will have to spend it because there will be no other "bad" alternatives.

[pooya87]

So here's another issue:  The usage of the investors can affect the spenders' side negatively, but not the opposite. The fact that it's seen more speculatively affects those who want to use it as a currency. This is what, after all, makes it difficult to achieve adoption in a global level.

Yeah but only to some extent and it somewhat depends on your views. The investors and specifically traders affect volatility.

* There is one hardcore bitcoin view that sees it as a currency that provides financial sovereignty and people with this view don't care about the price fluctuations at all.
* Another more mellow view is those who spend bitcoin while enjoying the increase in their purchasing power. For example you have $100 and park it in bitcoin then after some months you have $200 to spend. Who doesn't like that?

This is why despite all the slow adoption we are still seeing great progress in adoption to the point that I have even seen restaurants that accept bitcoin payment in where I live!

[Anonylz]

When the majority are ready to accept change, try something different from what they are use to, some people don't want to give crypto a try even though they have not used it, they make their decision based on what they read on the Internet and from some clueless people around them,

You can try to educate people about crypto and how to use it but the willingness must come from within, many merchants don't accept btc because they don't know it and are not ready to learn, hence potential buyers will not be able to spend their btc to buy.

[CryptoWebDirectory]

I also think the cycle is slowly being broken. One thing to remember is that most people don't like change, and adopting something new into society (especially different societies across the world like Bitcoin) takes a long time. One issue with Bitcoin is that some people want to hold it like it's gold and not spend it. This is partially why I think we still need to see more companies accepting other forms of cryptocurrency. But, that's something we're already starting to see happen as well. Many big companies out there accept Bitcoin already, even though most people don't pay with it. Some companies (like the huge AMC movie chain here in the US) are even accepting other cryptos now like Ethereum and Litecoin. Be patient.. Bitcoin adoption is already underway, but it's going to take lots of time for it to finally work it's way into a lot of peoples everyday life.

[batang_bitcoin]

Merchants would just accept it if there's a demand so I agree to those that says that it should come from the consumers and it's us. It's already in the making that the majority of the merchants will adopt bitcoin. AFAIK, many of them have adopted it in the past yet they've also removed their adoption to it when they've announced that they would no longer be accepting it. But I think we're on the right time and this is the start of it when there's a hype to the market, there will also be the attraction and all eyes on bitcoin which these merchants will announce their acceptance on it inspite of no demand for the payment of bitcoin because it will give them the attention and looks big news.

[o_e_l_e_o]

In a nutshell, it states that overvalued money drives out undervalued money from the market.

My issue with this is what makes bitcoin undervalued? People think they will be able to trade bitcoin for more goods or services in the future than they are able to do today, hence, it is currently undervalued. But that premise rests on the fact that there will be growth of bitcoin in the intervening time, that there will be more demand for bitcoin in the future, that there will be more people accepting it for goods and services, that there will be more people wanting to own it, etc. All this growth depends on adoption. If no one adopts bitcoin and no one uses bitcoin, then growth will stall and price will stagnate.

I don't disagree that people preferentially spend bad money, but if absolutely no one spends the good money then it ceases to function as money. If absolutely everyone simply held bitcoin and never used it or transacted it for anything ever, then it would be worthless.

[witcher_sense]

All this growth depends on adoption. If no one adopts bitcoin and no one uses bitcoin, then growth will stall and price will stagnate.

Right, the lack of widespread adoption is arguably the most remarkable reason Bitcoin is still far from being valued enough. And yes, if no one wanted Bitcoin, its value would magically disappear because the value is always subjective and never objective. It is undervalued, therefore, because there are some people, billions of people, who have not yet recognized its value. In other words, the current demand for Bitcoin is little if compared to what it might potentially be. It doesn't mean, however, Bitcoin can't fail on the path of achieving its highest possible value, but at least it tends to achieve it.

If absolutely everyone simply held bitcoin and never used it or transacted it for anything ever, then it would be worthless.

Have you ever spent your Bitcoin knowing that this is the hardest asset you have ever had? If yes, why? Maybe, the things you bought with Bitcoin were at the time more important for you than keeping money? We may have different reasons to spend money, whatever money, but the one thing that is clear: we don't need money itself, we need things we can buy with it. The reason we are holding Bitcoin today is that we can buy more things in the future. Bitcoin is not an end, it is just a means to it.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Have you ever spent your Bitcoin knowing that this is the hardest asset you have ever had? If yes, why?

Yes, absolutely. I spent some around just earlier today, in fact. And you could ask the same question of anyone who has ever sold bitcoin, as it is the exact same process. They are still exchanging their bitcoin for something else - the only difference is they are receiving fiat instead of goods. So why does anyone sell bitcoin ever, knowing that it is likely to outperform their other assets?

Why do I spend it? Because I value bitcoin as a currency and I value the advantages it brings over fiat. I like being able to spend my money on my terms, without my bank or credit card company sticking their noses in to when and where I am spending my money and what I am buying with it. I like being in complete control of my money without having to depend on a third party, who can choose to censor me and my transaction at any time. Would I be able to buy more goods with my bitcoin if I waited 1/5/10 years? Probably. But if everyone thought like that then it would never happen, since no merchant would ever go to the hassle of accepting bitcoin since no one was spending it. And with zero adoption there would be zero growth.

When I buy or otherwise receive bitcoin, I buy some which goes to cold storage, and I buy some which goes to a hot wallet to be spent on goods, services, or whatever I need. And I will continue to spend my bitcoin, even though it will be worth more in the future, because if nobody ever spent it, then it would be worth nothing.

[BlackHatCoiner]

* There is one hardcore bitcoin view that sees it as a currency that provides financial sovereignty and people with this view don't care about the price fluctuations at all.

I'm seeing bitcoin this way too, but I have to admit that it's annoying to buy stuff in different exchange rates each time. At the moment, in order to avoid this I have to make a time deposit for gift cards so I can have all my purchases in the same price. You obviously can't do this if you don't have enough liquidity and must be aware for the gift cards' expiration date.

* Another more mellow view is those who spend bitcoin while enjoying the increase in their purchasing power. For example you have $100 and park it in bitcoin then after some months you have $200 to spend. Who doesn't like that?

The one who also dislikes having $50 instead of $100. Fortunately, these highly fluctuating times have gone. It's way calmer now.

This is why despite all the slow adoption we are still seeing great progress in adoption to the point that I have even seen restaurants that accept bitcoin payment in where I live!

I wish this happens to me too. It'll feel great to pay my fast food deliveries via lightning instead of cash.

[pooya87]

At the moment, in order to avoid this I have to make a time deposit for gift cards so I can have all my purchases in the same price. You obviously can't do this if you don't have enough liquidity and must be aware for the gift cards' expiration date.

I will never do that because I would not be using bitcoin anymore, instead I would be relying on some third party

The one who also dislikes having $50 instead of $100. Fortunately, these highly fluctuating times have gone. It's way calmer now.

Well in a slightly longer period of time this still happens. The rise from $30k to $60k for example, took only 3 months.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I will never do that because I would not be using bitcoin anymore, instead I would be relying on some third party

Deja vu: The merchant is the party behind the gift card. It doesn't matter if you pay with bitcoin or not; you have to trust them you'll get the product you paid. It's not a third party, but there's always trust.

Well in a slightly longer period of time this still happens. The rise from $30k to $60k for example, took only 3 months.

Didn't it do those within a week 8-9 years ago?

[fiulpro]

Merchants don't adopt Bitcoin because their clients don't use it. Clients don't adopt it because merchants don't support it, and people want to have a payment method that can be used anywhere they go. How can this vicious circle be broken? Who will make the first move?

And by adopt I mean adopt for payments, not hodl it as an investment.

That's not entirely true.
Most of the times :
The government doesn't really comply with these terms. The merchants and the clients might not even have a hand in this.
When you see the price of Bitcoins rising, you won't use it as a payment method, why would you? Generally you would actually use it as an investment and hold it for a long period of time. That would decrease their demand as well which would prompt the sellers to choose not to engage in cryptocurrencies like bitcoins.
I do think that, merchants and clients would only accept Bitcoins when it would be more beneficial to use it for transactions for examples :
1. For international transactions
2. Transactions needing third parties
For the regular basis I do think that it would be more advisable for the clients to hold their bitcoins since right now it's more profitable. When the price is stable, it might be a good idea tho. It's a lot about situations as well.