Show off your hardware wallet

[Pmalek]

Adding one more collection of Nano Ledger X (Betnomi) purchased from GazetaBitcoin.

Looks like the devices Betnomi is/was giving away in their free raffles. Is it?
Whatever you do, don't upgrade to the latest firmware to install the seed-sharing code.

Does the cover of the Nano S in your picture have a pinkish color, or is that a reflection from your computer screen, background, or something?
This is your fourth HW you have posted a picture for. That makes you the leader in this category. 

[ajiz138]

Adding one more collection of Nano Ledger X (Betnomi) purchased from GazetaBitcoin.

Looks like the devices Betnomi is/was giving away in their free raffles. Is it?

GazetaBitcoin won a free raffle sponsored by Betnomi he had some hardware he won he offered it to me then I bought it. Very happy to deal with him.

Whatever you do, don't upgrade to the latest firmware to install the seed-sharing code.

I will not update this firmware it will remain the old version as default.

Does the cover of the Nano S in your picture have a pinkish color, or is that a reflection from your computer screen, background, or something?
This is your fourth HW you have posted a picture for. That makes you the leader in this category. 

It's the Betnomi logo but it knows light reflections so it can't be seen clearly.
This is the box received before unpacking.

[m2017]

Adding one more collection of Nano Ledger X (Betnomi) purchased from GazetaBitcoin.

Looks like the devices Betnomi is/was giving away in their free raffles. Is it?
Whatever you do, don't upgrade to the latest firmware to install the seed-sharing code.

But will NOT updating the firmware to the latest version help? We don't know if this feature was built or was not into earlier versions a hundred to one.

I can't say for sure, but perhaps NOT using ledger live will also help minimize the chance of losing the seed phrase.

In general, this is a rather bold act after all the unpleasant events to buy a Nano Ledger X. Perhaps following certain precautions will allow you to safely use this device.

Does the cover of the Nano S in your picture have a pinkish color, or is that a reflection from your computer screen, background, or something?
This is your fourth HW you have posted a picture for. That makes you the leader in this category.  

As far as I know, the metal part on the ledger is made of stainless steel, on which text and pictures are engraved without applying paint.

~snip

Does the cover of the Nano S in your picture have a pinkish color, or is that a reflection from your computer screen, background, or something?
This is your fourth HW you have posted a picture for. That makes you the leader in this category.  

It's the Betnomi logo but it knows light reflections so it can't be seen clearly.
This is the box received before unpacking.

I probably would not have opened the package and kept the personalized device from the Betnomi company as a collector's item. I probably will when I win a similar box (if I ever win at all) .


In general, I expected that this topic could turn into "Show off your broken by hammer hardware wallet".

[Pmalek]

But will NOT updating the firmware to the latest version help? We don't know if this feature was built or was not into earlier versions a hundred to one.

No one can tell for sure. All we know is that Ledger announced it now with its most recent firmware making the code for such actions available, and then they put the implementation on hold as they got bombarded with negative comments.   

I can't say for sure, but perhaps NOT using ledger live will also help minimize the chance of losing the seed phrase.

You must use it for the initial onboarding, seed creation, and app installations. You don't need to add accounts in Ledger Live and have it scan for balances, though.

In general, I expected that this topic could turn into "Show off your broken by hammer hardware wallet".

I don't want to see that here. All kinds of discussions, positive and negative, are always welcome, but I don't want the thread to turn into a freak show with pictures like that. I self-moderate it and would delete that when I see it.

[m2017]

But will NOT updating the firmware to the latest version help? We don't know if this feature was built or was not into earlier versions a hundred to one.

No one can tell for sure. All we know is that Ledger announced it now with its most recent firmware making the code for such actions available, and then they put the implementation on hold as they got bombarded with negative comments.   

We know a little more.

Ledger has gone on record saying that they have always had the ability to pull seed phrase from users' devices.

"Technically speaking it is always has been possible to write firmware that facilitates key extraction." - here's what they said.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5452900.msg62260073#msg62260073

It turns out that in earlier firmware this function could also be.

One thing I can say is that it would be possible to find answers to all questions only after a detailed analysis of the code, but as you know, this is impossible and this is a completely different topic for discussion.

I can't say for sure, but perhaps NOT using ledger live will also help minimize the chance of losing the seed phrase.

You must use it for the initial onboarding, seed creation, and app installations. You don't need to add accounts in Ledger Live and have it scan for balances, though.

If there was at least some confidence that these actions can help secure your wallet. Everything rests on faith and hope, which is unacceptable in the case of finances.

In general, I expected that this topic could turn into "Show off your broken by hammer hardware wallet".

I don't want to see that here. All kinds of discussions, positive and negative, are always welcome, but I don't want the thread to turn into a freak show with pictures like that. I self-moderate it and would delete that when I see it.

It was a joke. Of course, this topic is not intended for this and it would be completely inappropriate to post broken devices. I fully understand you and support your position.

[Pmalek]

Ledger has gone on record saying that they have always had the ability to pull seed phrase from users' devices.

Assuming they had the appropriate code ready and part of earlier firmware versions. That begs the question, why would they not tell people about it earlier? Or the even more important question, if they were trying to hide having that code, why would they announce it now (at all)? 

Everything rests on faith and hope, which is unacceptable in the case of finances.

Faith + Hope = Trust. You always needed trust in Ledger because of their closed-source nature, and that's the tradeoff people who purchased their hardware made. But Ledger Recover is a next-level craziness that should never have happened.

I actually expected a bigger response and more questions from the wider community of all hardware wallet users following the knowledge that secure elements aren't safe enclosures for private keys. They are only safe if the developers decide to make them safe, which doesn't have to be the case as we saw with Ledger Recover. For now, everyone seems content watching the Ledger (and now Safepal) forests burn, hoping the fire won't spread to their trees. 

[examplens]

Well, after I learned a very important and rather expensive lesson (loss of almost the entire portfolio), I urgently decided to buy a hardware wallet. Fortunately for me, Ledger was not available at that time, so I decided on Trezor One, which I received in the shortest possible time.

A few months ago I won a Ledger Nano-X in the Betnomi raffle, I thought it was great, to familiarize myself with this piece of hardware, and then give it as a gift (plus some funds on there) to my niece. Unfortunately, it will now be just a useless toy.

Whatever you do, don't upgrade to the latest firmware to install the seed-sharing code.

This is a temporary solution, but there are various doubts here.
How can we trust them that these messes with seeds were not implemented earlier, do we have any reliable info about it?
What can also be a concern, earlier they showed some very bad tendencies when it comes to the firmware update. I remember a case where at some point it was no longer possible to update the firmware from a certain version, Can we count on them that they will be more considerate in the future?
This Need help updating old Ledger Nano S firmware 1.2

[m2017]

Ledger has gone on record saying that they have always had the ability to pull seed phrase from users' devices.

Assuming they had the appropriate code ready and part of earlier firmware versions. That begs the question, why would they not tell people about it earlier? Or the even more important question, if they were trying to hide having that code, why would they announce it now (at all)? 

Because had the ledger told it earlier, the current shitstorm would have happened even then. And these are serious reputational losses, loss of customers and profits. It is clear that not a single manufacturer will agree to such an action unless absolutely necessary, which happened to this company.

Ledger has now announced this in an attempt to rehabilitate itself in the eyes of the crypto community after its resonant failure. They try to emphasize that "Look, there was a possibility to take seed phrases before, but we didn't touch it. It means we can be trusted." With the help of this recognition, the illusion of reliability of the company is created. Like if they didn't take advantage of it before, it won't happen in the future either. That's just to believe in this can only be completely not smart people.

I have only one question for them: why did the ledger introduce this code at all?

I see this as intent on their part. Intent directed against their clients.

I'm sorry to digress from the original topic, but you asked me questions and I was obliged to answer it.

Everything rests on faith and hope, which is unacceptable in the case of finances.

Faith + Hope = Trust. You always needed trust in Ledger because of their closed-source nature, and that's the tradeoff people who purchased their hardware made. But Ledger Recover is a next-level craziness that should never have happened.

I actually expected a bigger response and more questions from the wider community of all hardware wallet users following the knowledge that secure elements aren't safe enclosures for private keys. They are only safe if the developers decide to make them safe, which doesn't have to be the case as we saw with Ledger Recover. For now, everyone seems content watching the Ledger (and now Safepal) forests burn, hoping the fire won't spread to their trees. 

As it turned out, the ledger neglected the trust of customers and even abused it. Now it's so obvious.
 
Craziness with Ledger Recover nevertheless happened (sorry, the implementation is delayed for a while) and now it becomes curious, but what new craziness are they preparing for the future? From ledger now you can expect anything.

Well, after I learned a very important and rather expensive lesson (loss of almost the entire portfolio), I urgently decided to buy a hardware wallet. Fortunately for me, Ledger was not available at that time, so I decided on Trezor One, which I received in the shortest possible time.

A few months ago I won a Ledger Nano-X in the Betnomi raffle, I thought it was great, to familiarize myself with this piece of hardware, and then give it as a gift (plus some funds on there) to my niece. Unfortunately, it will now be just a useless toy.

~snip

Why useless toy. I suppose if you already have this device, then you can continue to use it. But with reservations, like keeping only small amounts for the same small expenses. Of course, any long-term cypto hold is out of the question.

Another option: leave this device in case of a $5 attack with a wrench - give this wallet in case of threats with a certain amount of money to get off with little blood.

[Pmalek]

Since the Nano X is no longer with you, I will add only the Trezor One to your name in the table.

This is a temporary solution, but there are various doubts here.
How can we trust them that these messes with seeds were not implemented earlier, do we have any reliable info about it?

No, we don't. All we know is that they decided to tell us about the feature for the latest Nano X firmware upgrade, and that such information was never announced before.

What can also be a concern, earlier they showed some very bad tendencies when it comes to the firmware update. I remember a case where at some point it was no longer possible to update the firmware from a certain version, Can we count on them that they will be more considerate in the future?

The newest Nano X firmware is 2.2.1, and that should be the one the introduces the code for Ledger Recover. If you don't want that code on your device, don't upgrade the firmware and keep using the one you have now. The same applies to any further firmware upgrades. You can no longer upgrade your Nano X ever. Each future update will install that code.

You'll have to make do with the firmware version you have now, and hope it will remain functional for as long as possible.
You won't benefit from any future bug/vulnerability fixes, improvements, or new features either.

Why useless toy. I suppose if you already have this device, then you can continue to use it. But with reservations, like keeping only small amounts for the same small expenses. Of course, any long-term cypto hold is out of the question.

Even Andreas said he would continue to use his Ledger in the latest video where he discusses Ledger Recover with Jameson Lopp. I think he said he uses it for "operational costs". 

[ChiBitCTy]

Finally..I believe this is German, going to ask my German buddy for brief translation.

[Pmalek]

<Snip>

The pictures say that coinfriend was an exchange that had its own mining farm. They allowed you to purchase crypto and top up a crypto debit card directly. There is no mention of that hardware device, though. Looks like a USB-type of device. Does it even have a screen or buttons? What's the thing called?

The two sites in the pictures aren't live any longer. Wayback Machine has no achieves of coinfriend.eu. bitcoinwalletcards.com has been achieved several times. Under the hardware wallet section on one archive, I found two entries. One is called CardwalletBTC – Android App for Bitcoin Hardware Wallet Card and the other Bitcoin Hardware Wallet Card for Android App CardwalletBTC.

It seems like the same thing, just called differently. The product descriptions talk about a card and an app you can use at ATMs or to make online transactions. Doesn't help to figure out what that thing is.

[ChiBitCTy]

<Snip>

The pictures say that coinfriend was an exchange that had its own mining farm. They allowed you to purchase crypto and top up a crypto debit card directly. There is no mention of that hardware device, though. Looks like a USB-type of device. Does it even have a screen or buttons? What's the thing called?

The two sites in the pictures aren't live any longer. Wayback Machine has no achieves of coinfriend.eu. bitcoinwalletcards.com has been achieved several times. Under the hardware wallet section on one archive, I found two entries. One is called CardwalletBTC – Android App for Bitcoin Hardware Wallet Card and the other Bitcoin Hardware Wallet Card for Android App CardwalletBTC.

It seems like the same thing, just called differently. The product descriptions talk about a card and an app you can use at ATMs or to make online transactions. Doesn't help to figure out what that thing is.

Did some deep digging and it’s very hard to find info, First, no buttons or screens or anything. These guys seem to have been early in the game. One way I know is this - https://www.slideshare.net/cryptocoinwalletcards/bitcoin-walletcards .  So BitBills are the first ever physically held bitcoin. They tried to patent physical bitcoins and threatened legal action against the likes of Mike Caldwell/Casascius and now I’m seeing these guys got threatened too. Gavin created the idea of physical btc, so BitBills was denied patent. It was amazing that so many thought it wasn’t possible. I believe I remember Theymos saying it would never happen, which the guy helped Satosh build up btc, he knows a few things lol..crazy how far everything has come.

I did find a few links on Amazon for these cards. One was IOTA, sold out, the other btc that was sold out of Germany but sold in Japanese currency. I’m in the US and they won’t ship to me. It’s all weird but interesting. Will keep digging.

[Pmalek]

<Snip>

It's interesting. Nevertheless, that's not a hardware wallet. We could refer to them as paper wallets in card format. A type of cold storage maybe, but not a hardware wallet. I would like this thread to be solely about hardware wallets, past and future. Preferably, devices that are still in use by Bitcointalk users.

[Pmalek]

Does anyone else have a hardware wallet they would like to show the community at Bitcointalk? Let's try to revive this thread a little.
I am particularly interested in seeing images of some genuine DYI devices. I know that some users here have those, so don't be shy and let's see them.

[Wind_FURY]

Bump.

My Ledger arrived yesterday! I ordered this while forgetting about the "Ledger Unsafe" topic. I believe I'll continue using my Trezor One to store larger amounts of Bitcoin. Haha.

OP asked me to share pictures of my new hardware wallet and I would also like to post that its firmware is closed source making it have some probability that it could be backdoored.

[Pmalek]

My Ledger arrived yesterday! I ordered this while forgetting about the "Ledger Unsafe" topic.

Thanks for contributing to the thread.
I see you got one in a non-standard color. I think they had special discounts for certain colors recently as part of their Black Friday deal or even before that. Does Ledger still write that they are open-source at the back of the box? All their older boxes had claims of being open-source on the back.

I believe I'll continue using my Trezor One to store larger amounts of Bitcoin. Haha.

It makes sense to do that. I have got a Trezor myself, and I am satisfied with it.

[Wind_FURY]

My Ledger arrived yesterday! I ordered this while forgetting about the "Ledger Unsafe" topic.

Thanks for contributing to the thread.

I see you got one in a non-standard color. I think they had special discounts for certain colors recently as part of their Black Friday deal or even before that. Does Ledger still write that they are open-source at the back of the box? All their older boxes had claims of being open-source on the back.

I believe I'll continue using my Trezor One to store larger amounts of Bitcoin. Haha.

It makes sense to do that. I have got a Trezor myself, and I am satisfied with it.

No, what's now written behind the box is, "Peace of Mind" and some words describing the predict, "All-inclusive storage" plus more words, then "Easy asset management" and more words.

  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

They probably were warned for false-advertising if they continued to print "Open-Source" in their boxes, no?

I'm satisfied with my old Trezor One too, but the colors of the Ledger is beautiful. I am forced to use it at the risk for losing some assets.

[Pmalek]

No, what's now written behind the box is, "Peace of Mind" and some words describing the predict, "All-inclusive storage" plus more words, then "Easy asset management" and more words.

They probably were warned for false-advertising if they continued to print "Open-Source" in their boxes, no?

I doubt there is a regulator or agency that cares whether they call themselves open-source or not. They can always make excuses and say parts of our ecosystem is open-source, and that's what the writing on the box refers to. On the other hand, they are concerned with their public image and will try everything to avoid losing their reputation. That's why marketing is such a critical point for Ledger. They have surely heard enough criticism to remove their old open-source claim and exchange it for some other slogans.

[Wind_FURY]

No, what's now written behind the box is, "Peace of Mind" and some words describing the predict, "All-inclusive storage" plus more words, then "Easy asset management" and more words.

They probably were warned for false-advertising if they continued to print "Open-Source" in their boxes, no?

I doubt there is a regulator or agency that cares whether they call themselves open-source or not. They can always make excuses and say parts of our ecosystem is open-source, and that's what the writing on the box refers to. On the other hand, they are concerned with their public image and will try everything to avoid losing their reputation. That's why marketing is such a critical point for Ledger. They have surely heard enough criticism to remove their old open-source claim and exchange it for some other slogans.

I'm very confident that there are regulators in each country that if something came to their attention, then they would definitely require companies from doing any false-advertisements. If a company doesn't comply, then it's a reason to cancel their business license. Plus it would also cause more distrust from the community which would destroy their reputation further.

[m2017]

No, what's now written behind the box is, "Peace of Mind" and some words describing the predict, "All-inclusive storage" plus more words, then "Easy asset management" and more words.

I'll accept any label on the box, as long as it's not "Piece of Shit".

Although, in the case of Ledger, we already know what's inside. I'm not talking about the source code, which remains closed.

I'm satisfied with my old Trezor One too, but the colors of the Ledger is beautiful. I am forced to use it at the risk for losing some assets.

It seems to me that these risks are a bit overstated in the public consciousness. Theoretically, the contents of wallets can be lost in any device, it's just that the Ledger's reputation is tarnished and it seems that their risks are higher.

If the "crime" has NOT yet occurred, then you can't judge for it.

Ledger devices should be treated with caution (don't store all assets),

Respect to @Wind_FURY for the courage to use ledger HW (after all the rumors and suspicions) and openly declare here when the BTC-community, to put it mildly, doesn't approve of this manufacturer (Satoshi bless his assets ).

Which wallet to use is a personal risk choice for everyone.