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Author Topic: [WARNING] Avoid 4444sport.com until they change their behavior  (Read 625 times)
Mahdirakib (OP)
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December 06, 2021, 06:23:20 PM
Last edit: December 08, 2021, 11:58:10 AM by Mahdirakib
 #1

What happened:
The platform made their first announcement thread in this forum on November 8, 2021. And they locked the ANN thread on December 2, 2021 by saying this

Hello everyone, we are trying to keep our ANN thread clean and lately there are some users that was posting off topic and spam posts and most of them are not players of our gambling site. ~
However, it seems like they have locked their first ANN thread as many people were saying that 4444sport have connection with scam AdkinsBET. Though there isn't any valid proof of it, but they are acting like AdkinsBET. They (AdkinsBET) had also created a self-moderated thread after locking the first ANN thread and deleted those posts which was against them. 4444sport doing the same thing now by creating a self-moderated thread.

Beside that, some users was complaining about the withdrawal delays. 4444sport.com is delaying the withdrawal of ‘brassnuts’, Already 1 week has been passed and they haven't paid him yet. 4444sport.com has deleted all the post of ‘brassnuts’ in their self-moderated thread except this one. As a result, he (brassnuts) created a topic about it in the gambling section: Self Moderated Thread for New Books

Suspects Profile Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3404161

Note: I haven't made any post in their ANN but I was observing their activity since last few days. They have already received two negative feedbacks for running a self-moderated thread and for not paying the users.

Edit: Based on this accusation, a type 1 flag has been created by ‘logfiles’ against 4444sport.com. If you think they are showing wrong attitude and trying to scam users (already scamming) then support the flag

Support flag: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=2885

R


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December 06, 2021, 09:57:34 PM
 #2

Self moderated thread in gambling section? I guess I have missed their announcement. This sounds awkward; must be a scam attempt. AFAIRA, this website have some similarity with the scam website adkinsbet; both were trying to get some sign up through a nice giveaway. It more sounds like scam attempt now. People should stay away.

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December 07, 2021, 12:15:24 PM
Merited by The Sceptical Chymist (3), Mpamaegbu (2), Halab (2)
 #3

I've just seen this thread. Thanks for making it and trying to help keep the community aware of this site.

For what it's worth, 4444 have not communicated with me in any way since about 5 or 6 days ago when they said they were 'verifying' my bets. Since then any attempt at communication is either ignored or just deleted.

There are still no confirmed withdrawals from the site, nor do I expect there to be. It's possible they may process very small withdrawals to create the illusion that they're legitimate so people should be aware of that.

The only other user who has posted about an experience at 4444, either positive or negative, is 'younger41', and they were told their bets were voided and his deposit would be returned. This was a week ago but no deposit has returned.

The bigger issue is that this forum enables this scam behaviour, and the gambling forum is in effect a relative haven for crypto betting scammers. They can self moderate threads to make unaware people think the site is having no complaints. I imagine if a few shills post positive experiences on their thread then they look like a great site to play at, when in reality no one is getting their money back if they win anything. Surely the ability to remove self moderation is a possibility, but it may be the case that the mods of that board are monetising by taking fees to allow self moderating threads. There is no good reason why a site with no reputation, or even worse a terrible reputation, should be allowed to have a self moderated thread. It's very simple to stop this behaviour, yet it is allowed to continue.
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December 07, 2021, 03:23:13 PM
 #4

They can self moderate threads to make unaware people think the site is having no complaints. I imagine if a few shills post positive experiences on their thread then they look like a great site to play at, when in reality no one is getting their money back if they win anything. Surely the ability to remove self moderation is a possibility, but it may be the case that the mods of that board are monetising by taking fees to allow self moderating threads. There is no good reason why a site with no reputation, or even worse a terrible reputation, should be allowed to have a self moderated thread. It's very simple to stop this behaviour, yet it is allowed to continue.

Self moderated thread is not allowed in gambling section. So even if they try to open a self moderate thread and show their reputation only positively, then that is their misconception. Because they can't keep their thread this way, the moderator will remove that thread. And by creating a shill account and making positive comments, they will be able to go further, because real victims will also share their bad experiences in that thread so that it will be easier for gamblers to make a decision.

So since they can't just show their positive side, they have locked the thread.

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December 07, 2021, 04:37:19 PM
 #5


Self moderated thread is not allowed in gambling section.
If there is a written rule regarding these terms, I will report it. I also got a notification inbox that my post was deleted. I think that user is now starting to annoy everyone. Obviously, the OP would easily delete posts against that thread, including the scam warning. This cannot be allowed.

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December 07, 2021, 04:39:55 PM
 #6

Self moderated thread in gambling section? I guess I have missed their announcement. This sounds awkward; must be a scam attempt. ~
Clearly they are trying to scam the bettors. If not then they would continue with their old thread. Until now they (4444sport.com) have deleted 26 posts of 12 users. And most of those posts was related with the issues of the platform, not off topic.

The bigger issue is that this forum enables this scam behaviour, and the gambling forum is in effect a relative haven for crypto betting scammers. They can self moderate threads to make unaware people think the site is having no complaints.
Self-moderated thread isn't the main issue here. Many casino has launched without self-moderated thread and ended as scam site. Casino manager or admin gets negative feedback when someone post an accusation against them with proper proof. And this is the actual way to determine a scam casino. BTW, you can see all the replies (including deleted post) of a self-moderated thread by using Ninjastic.space.

Self moderated thread is not allowed in gambling section. ~snip~
I haven't seen any rules like that. theymos said

Quote
There are no rules to self-moderation. In self-moderated threads, replies belong to the OP. In other threads, replies belong to the respondents individually. Think carefully about whether you want to reply to a self-moderated topic, as your post may not be given due respect.

Anyway, some casinos are running for a long time with self-moderated thread and they have enough reputation now. A small number of posts were deleted in those self-moderated thread, and all of those posts were related to trolling. FortuneJack, Bitcasino, Betcoin and PlayBetr is a great example of reputable betting sites with self-moderated thread.

R


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December 07, 2021, 05:33:10 PM
 #7



Self moderated thread is not allowed in gambling section. So even if they try to open a self moderate thread and show their reputation only positively, then that is their misconception. Because they can't keep their thread this way, the moderator will remove that thread. And by creating a shill account and making positive comments, they will be able to go further, because real victims will also share their bad experiences in that thread so that it will be easier for gamblers to make a decision.

So since they can't just show their positive side, they have locked the thread.

The thread is still open and 90% of posts are still being deleted because they are all negative. It's crazy that this can go on.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5375271.0
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December 07, 2021, 06:01:50 PM
 #8

Self moderated thread is not allowed in gambling section. ~snip~
I haven't seen any rules like that. theymos said

Yes i know that there is no specifics that a self moderate thread cannot be created on the gambling board. My point is, if a gambling website is open moderate thread Then the community members will take a stand against that website because the creation of such a thread will not have any value in the opinion of the community members, which other gamblers should have been aware of. And that's why I said these threads are not allowed in the gambling section.

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December 07, 2021, 10:12:44 PM
 #9

The thread is still open and 90% of posts are still being deleted because they are all negative. It's crazy that this can go on.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5375271.0

clear evidence of fraud has not yet been presented here. I guess their thread will still open and there is no reason for mods to lock or delete it.
OP noticed it well and a self-moderated topic is not exactly the best choice for communicating with your customers. I mean users from whom that casino should make money.
Currently, there are #36 posts and at the same time, 32 posts by 14 users with 1 merit deleted. more than obvious censorship.

btw. I am curious, in addition to many casinos with a solid reputation, why do people bother with poor casinos like 4444sport?

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December 07, 2021, 10:19:20 PM
 #10


Self moderated thread is not allowed in gambling section.
If there is a written rule regarding these terms, I will report it. I also got a notification inbox that my post was deleted. I think that user is now starting to annoy everyone. Obviously, the OP would easily delete posts against that thread, including the scam warning. This cannot be allowed.
The fact that they have already erased a handful of negative reviews on the self-moderated thread says a lot about the website, and the fact that they have already been tagged by DT members sends a strong message to users who want to play their to play it with caution or never play at all.

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December 07, 2021, 10:28:43 PM
Merited by dkbit98 (1), logfiles (1), Mahdirakib (1)
 #11

As they claim to delete only off-topic, trolling, and spam posts, I decided to look into it further.
These are the posts that have been removed from their topic so far, whether they were trolling or spam, decide for yourself:

Quote from: brassnuts
Hi there 4444,

I'm sorry to keep posting in your threads, but unfortunately after waiting almost 6 days for a withdrawal with no communication, what else can i do?

Do you have any updates on this for me?

Thanks

Quote from: brassnuts
Hi,

You need to open some communication with me in regards of the money i have on 4444 and the withdrawal you refuse to process, or even talk to me about.

I am open to being entirely cordial and diplomatic about this. I am not here to troll you, I am simply here to retrieve, at the very least, the funds that I deposited on your site.

I hope you can do the right thing and steer your company in a positive direction.

Quote from: DoublerHunter
^ I understand OP why he/she created this new ANN thread.
Defamation or even slandering is a part of a business made by competitors, we know there is plenty of gambling business here and we don't know other's motives. I did not post on the old thread just only here but I think there is a good discussion there that should bring it back here, restoration a good topic is good just like no withdrawal fees. However, it is your decision OP and we respect that matter.
Nevertheless, a signature campaign is a perfect promotion that you should start here, good luck with your business, and see you around.

Quote from: rodskee
Creating a  "Self Moderated" topic as your ANN Thread will only bring fear to the incoming players ,i am not saying anything Bad about your site but this action mostly created by Scam sites or those sites that has existing scam accusation cases .

Please try not to delete any posts here , let them express their thoughts on you and answer them if valid and just ignore if not.

In this way you will preserve your transparency and your trustworthy behavior.

Let them attack you and face them with proofs , because remember that it is words against proofs so best deal with them than deleting their posts.

Quote from: Jawhead999
Now look at those post deleted by @OP in this thread.

So this means as a player we don't have the right to complain when we have a problem with the casino? This looks you want to hide something and not being transparent. You can't force all users agree with your opinion, that's not free speech. You need to give full explanation about your rules, otherwise people should stay away with this casino.

If my post got deleted I'll do something...

Quote from: rodskee
Seriously ? i have given a Good advice for you as you ask about thoughts and comments but you deleted my post? continue this attitude and surely you will lose possible few players as i am one of the first to create an account in your site when you posted the ANN thread here in bitcointalk.
but this behavior ?

Quote from: brassnuts
Hiya,

I am not trolling, yet you keep deleting my comments. I just need some sort of response from you about my pending withdrawal, and a reason why it's taking so long.

I will say it again, this it not a troll. It's a legitimate question that needs to be answered, therefore deleting it would be a sure sign that your intentions are not good on this forum.

I'm still hopeful that you can resolve this matter fairly, and will allow you until Monday morning to give me some sort of an update, at which point I will justly create a scam accusation thread in the appropriate board.

Thanks

Quote from: brassnuts
In the old thread there are no mentions of successful withdrawals, just other members who's bets were verified and then voided. Which obviously makes the fact that I've been waiting a week for my bets to be verified very worrying.

I have absolutely no doubt that either I get nothing at all from this site, or they just void all of my bets.

People seem to think it's normal for a site to verify every bet on big markets, and take a week about it. It's not standard at all.

Quote from: dustboy
In my opinion the 7 days waiting is not the main reason of the trust he gave to you but it is more about how you deal with your customers in solving the issue. Deleting posts which are not agree with you is not professional, you should act professionally. Having delayed withdrawal longer than what you have in terms is normal as long as there is a valid reason, you wont be given red trust if you act professionally.

Quote from: Eureka_07
How long do you usually process the "checking" of bets that you are saying? Seven days is very long period of time if it will be based on my experience in which, most of my withdrawals are processed instantly, the longest was ~4 hours which is I can understand since the casino was small and young. But it has been 7 days as you say, what's taking you so long?

Quote from: Stalker22
The way I see it, it would be better if you acted more professionally here. You abandoned the old ANN thread and created a self-moderated one to control the discussion in your favor. This is generally frowned upon by the community. The fact that you delete many comments that have nothing to do with spam or trolling is even less helpful. If you wish to be accepted by the community, I recommend you act according to the community's values.

Quote from: Eureka_07
You also deleted my post haha. I didn't even trolled you or spammed. I just asked you why the withdrawals to your site is taking too long? For 7 days. haha I thought you wouldn't delete that kind of message and just give your explanation, however you deleted it. It just shows us something wrong with your service. Smiley

Quote from: brassnuts
Hi there,

Is there any progress on the withdrawal I requested, or the verification of my bets from over a week ago yet?

Thanks in advance

Quote from: noorman0
Is a well-founded complaint also likely to be considered spam? Honestly the community prefers it if your customers have only one place to voice their complaints in this forum without censorship. If your thread is set to self-moderate, those complaints will spread to other boards especially scam accusations.

One more thing, self-moderated threads will greatly reduce your credibility as a public service. You don't have to worry about trolling, you're not the only one who can moderate threads. Just report them.

Quote from: younger41
Same problem, they void all bets and say me you will get money max in 72 hours.

Yes, sure, maybe 72 days.

https://ibb.co/CB4TPwj

Quote from: radex90
+250 mbtc from one user, great money for running 1 site for a few weeks...

safe bet, no chance to lose, I mean, no chance for withdrawal...

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December 08, 2021, 12:11:36 AM
Merited by Mpamaegbu (1), Mahdirakib (1), FatFork (1), Stalker22 (1)
 #12

After reading through all the deleted posts, I decided to tag and flag them. If they don't want any complaints, then they shouldn't open any thread at all in the forum.

Someone complains about their delayed withdrawal, and then they have the audacity to delete the post instead of addressing the issue. Seriously?
That's what scammers always do. Not legitimate casinos.

Please support the flag Type 1: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=2885
@Mahdirakib, you can add the flag to the OP.

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December 08, 2021, 07:04:04 AM
 #13

Self-moderated ANNs should not be allowed in the forum is what I would say. But we all have to accept what the forum administration gives us and not crib about it.

It is so easy nowadays to create such a thread and only censor the posts that speak up against the same saying that it is trolling/offtopic. But we have our own method to call them out here on the alloted section and it is also nice to see users decide on it.

Good job on @Mahdirakib for making this thread, been following it for the last few days waiting for someone to make a flag and @logfiles got posting the flag. Flag has been supported, hoping more DT to take action too.

R


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December 08, 2021, 08:01:11 AM
 #14

A month has passed since 4444sport joined the forum and started their first ANN thread. As of this writing, there have been no confirmed withdrawals from 4444sport, and several complaints are still unresolved. Although there are no open scam accusations against the casino yet, I support the flag based on their attitude towards the community and excessive censorship in their self-moderated thread. The casino has all the hallmarks of a scam so I don't recommend anyone to gamble there.

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December 08, 2021, 11:34:40 AM
 #15

This looks very much like behavior you would expect to see from some scammer, and they created new self-moderated topic only after one or more users complained how they can't withdraw coins from their website.
I don't know if they are really connected with adkinsbet or any other website but ther behavior is very shady so I am supporting the flag and I would suggest everyone to stay away from 4444sport website.

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December 09, 2021, 03:19:08 AM
 #16


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#EndTheFUD
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altini63
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December 11, 2021, 07:12:31 AM
 #17

They are not paying and replying to my messages in 6 days. 185 euro payout...
acroman08
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December 11, 2021, 08:11:35 AM
 #18

They are not paying and replying to my messages in 6 days. 185 euro payout...
their gambling site is currently facing similar complaints from other gamblers and they currently have an active flag against them. would you mind sharing more information or evidence(screenshot or anything suggesting that they are not paying) regarding your issue? I am not saying that you are lying but evidence would help other members to decide whether to support you or not.

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 MΞTAWIN  THE FIRST WEB3 CASINO   
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.. PLAY NOW ..
brassnuts
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December 11, 2021, 11:54:20 AM
 #19

There's very little to debate now with regards to 4444.

Every user who has posted about their experiences there has, quite simply, had their money stolen.

The only other known interaction with 4444 is in this thread, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5373889.0, where once again they have failed to pay anything at all.
The Sceptical Chymist
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December 11, 2021, 12:14:46 PM
 #20

The only other user who has posted about an experience at 4444, either positive or negative, is 'younger41', and they were told their bets were voided and his deposit would be returned. This was a week ago but no deposit has returned.
I'm reluctant to jump on the negative trust bandwagon based on a single complaint by you, and I'm still reluctant even with what you wrote above--and I'm not convinced yet that 4444sport is actually AdkinsBET, because I haven't seen any hard evidence, only similarities between the two (though if I had to guess, I'd have to say they're one and the same just based on the fact that I've seen that pattern of behavior before with scamming sites).  Should there be any more complaints about these guys, I'll be happy to support the flag and give them a red paint job.

Was there any communication between younger41 and 4444sport about the delay of his funds being returned or did they completely ignore him?

The bigger issue is that this forum enables this scam behaviour, and the gambling forum is in effect a relative haven for crypto betting scammers.
That's a secondary problem, IMO, but a real one.  Unfortunately scams have always been tolerated here by Theymos (and by extension, the moderators).  It'd be great if self-moderated threads weren't allowed in the gambling section, but I wouldn't get my hopes up about that being changed.  I think they're not allowed in the Auctions and/or Currency Exchange section(s), so it is kind of odd that a scammer could moderate his own thread in any section that allows an ANN.

The only other known interaction with 4444 is in this thread, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5373889.0, where once again they have failed to pay anything at all.
That's an odd thread.  They don't say when the contest is going to end or when the winner will be paid or even if the winner will be announced (which they haven't been so far).  That does add to the growing pile of evidence in my head that this outfit is a scammy one.

They are not paying and replying to my messages in 6 days. 185 euro payout...
Do you have evidence of that?  Did you start a scam accusation thread?  If you do, please post it.  I'm itching to neg these guys, and one more claim of nonpayment will put me over the edge.

Self-moderated ANNs should not be allowed in the forum is what I would say. But we all have to accept what the forum administration gives us and not crib about it.
Oh, I think it's entirely appropriate to crib about how the forum is.  It's a two-way street, isn't it?  Without the community there would be no forum, and without the forum there would be no community.  In addition to that, there is a DT list which presumably is a group of members whose trust and perhaps even opinions are valued by Theymos and the community, so shouldn't they have at least a little input as to changes they think should be made?  Hell, I think even non-DT members ought to have a say--and to be heard.

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.HUGE.
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