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[suchmoon]

Why are all these preventive methods of protection? Just deprive these sections of the ability to hide their fraud. Instead, the community is trying to warn users with this multi-step jumble of tips. Just remove self-moderation from these sections and it will be a million times more effective than all these tons of explanations on how to behave in a self-moderated topic.

The flipside is that legitimate trade topics can be easily flooded by competitor sockpuppets. Self moderated marketplace threads have a use case but as many other things on this forum this feature is abused by shitheads (see korner LOL) and it's being allowed due to some misguided equal opportunity free speech fallacies.

Perhaps self-mod privileges should be tied to rank or earned merit but that would have disadvantages as well.

[Upgrade00]

I have been asking this question for a long time, why does the forum allow the use of self-moderation in those topics where financial relations are implied? Why? As far as I understand, the impossibility of creating a self-moderated topic is only in Meta. But why not enable this option in all sections where financial relations are implied, such as Goods, Services, Currency exchange, etc. In fact, the entire Marketplace section.

I can't remember all the other boards, but I'm sure the auction board does not allow users to open self moderated threads, and as mentioned above, there are reasons why the privilege is disabled on some of those boards as it allows users to moderate their threads and prevent spam, although so many of the top threads (especially in the services section) does not use self mod option, as the OPs are highly trusted and any spam there would be easily noticeable as such.

There is also a notification of the number of replies deleted by the thread starter, which should serve as an extra warning to members.

[ShowOff]

Forum scams are not moderated, I know that. And I also understand that self-moderation can be used by conscientious users to prevent spam.   But why do scammers have the opportunity to moderate their scam on their own?

In general we already have the answer here and maybe this is why there is no limit for scammmers to moderate their scam in forum. I think every user just needs to review one's trust rating before making a trade, it has been suggested thousands of times by forum users. If the admin or moderator restricts it with the system, it means that the forum is ready to moderate the fraud which they have not done so far.

I remember very well how 1xbit was allowed to run its campaign on the forum while the site proved to be deceiving many of its customers. So I think whatever the problem is when it is related to a scam then the forum will not moderate it. Yes, we can only suggest the best but the admin will decide everything.

[Findingnemo]

I support this idea because for all the years I have been here I watched lot of self moderated threads managed by scammers to deceive the newbies especially in the digital goods section if I am not wrong. Newbies may not understand the trust system completely that is why they are still falling for them.

If we think that spam messages may annoy with such feature still the thread creator can use the report to moderator button to remove them. Yes it add more job for the mods but atleast some people can be saved from losing money to those scammers.

Anyway the flag system may work as a warning for now, if newbies are trading by avoiding those warning then they may deserve to get the lesson by paying something. 

[LoyceV]

Yes, I put a flag on him, I wrote him a negative tag. But he continues to offer his "services" in the English and Russian sections. He removes all my warnings to other users about the scam.

Even if it wouldn't be self-moderated, he could argue it's off-topic and report the posts.

If I see some newbie writing in his topic, I have to write to this newbie in PM and explain to him that this is a scammer

Aren't those just sockpuppets posting to lure in others?

many newbies do not look at the trust or the flag at all

Do we really have to care about people who ignore big warning signs? We can't help people who don't want to be helped.

Honestly, I think that someone that naïve can't be protected. Even if every inch of the page had been full of warnings, he still might've fallen for it

Perhaps self-mod privileges should be tied to rank or earned merit but that would have disadvantages as well.

How about tying it to not having an active scammer warning Flag? Say: as long as the Flag is active (as seen from ;dt), the user can't moderate posts. If the Flag were to be deactivated again, their self-mod status can reactivate.

I can't remember all the other boards, but I'm sure the auction board does not allow users to open self moderated threads

The Auctions board is a different case, you can't even edit your post there (but as far as I know OP can move it to another board to sneakily edit posts).

When you damage your car on the road because of the pits, would you prefer to have this road repaired or to be given a map showing all the pits, thereby warning you?

It depends on the country:

(source: Belgium to Holland, Dutch roads are so much better.)

[icopress]

Even if it wouldn't be self-moderated, he could argue it's off-topic and report the posts.

I also had this thought several times ... in the context of whether the moderators give preference to those reports that the OP sends or not, (in cases where there is no explicit warning in the title of the thread). Below is a hardcore example, but as far as I know, moderators delete messages even with more relaxed local rules.

Please note Local rule: This thread is only [...]

Aren't those just sockpuppets posting to lure in others?

Especially considering the fact that there is a warning for beginners that is visible even to unregistered users.

The Auctions board is a different case, you can't even edit your post there (but as far as I know OP can move it to another board to sneakily edit posts).

Shouldn't a thread stop being self-moderated if it is moved to a different partition? Or does this only apply to those cases where the thread is moved to Meta?

[LoyceV]

The Auctions board is a different case, you can't even edit your post there (but as far as I know OP can move it to another board to sneakily edit posts).

Shouldn't a thread stop being self-moderated if it is moved to a different partition? Or does this only apply to those cases where the thread is moved to Meta?

Topics in Auctions can't be self-moderated.

I just tested it: I created a topic in Auctions. As expected, I can't edit my post. I made a post from LoyceBot, that one couldn't be edited either. So far so good.
Then I moved it to off-topic, and normal edit features were restored. I edited my posts, moved it back to Auctions, and I cheated the no-edit-rule of the Auctions board. I still think this is a bug, just like it used to be possible to move self-moderated topics to a board that doesn't allow it. Theymos fixed that one years ago.

[actmyname]

Especially considering the fact that there is a warning for beginners that is visible even to unregistered users.

It's unfortunate that you can't even be presented DefaultTrust metrics in boards where trust is visible. It's as if guests are stripped of the mere existence of the trust system until they decide to register. (but why would you do so for a single sale thread?)

I still think this is a bug

Just don't allow topics to move into Auctions without moderator support. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[ShowOff]

I do not think that disabling the self-moderation feature for topics with financial relationships relates to scam moderation. With the same success, the restriction on the use of avatars of users below the Full Member rank can also be attributed to moderation, although this is not so.

Actually I don't like how scammers get freedom in this forum without moderation as it can give them a chance to scam more other users on the forum. Ratimov, I know what you mean but I doubt the admins will because the scam has been going on for a long time without moderation on this forum. While disabling that feature would be another solution, it would be a disadvantage when a reputable user wants to moderate their thread to prevent spammers. I don't think admin would create any special restrictions in thread moderation based on user reputation, if they did then it would apply to all users.

As I said, reputation and trust rating should make one cautious before making a trade. I just don't think you should be held responsible for the mistakes other users make when they don't realize the scam even though your attitude is a noble one. Users should care that we shouldn't trust anyone online without doing some research.

[Pmalek]

In the same way that we have members who can whitelist newbies to not having to pay the evil fee, we can have users with whitelisting capabilities for threads in the marketplace boards. By default, that option should be turned off. If you want to create a self-moderated thread in the marketplace, you need to explain the reasons for wanting to do that. Just having such a thread should not be allowed.

A few suggestions:

- Everyone who doesn't have a history of scamming others should be allowed to request self-moderated threads.
- Brand-new accounts can't request it.
- Accounts with negative trust for legitimate reasons can't have self-moderated threads.
- If you can show the people who do the whitelisting that you have been targeted unfairly by certain members in the past who have spammed your threads and tried to prevent you from carrying out your business, you would be allowed to self-mod your threads in the marketplace.

[Pmalek]

Not bad. But I already foresee these comments, like, but if the negative tags is not objective and is left out of revenge...

I have never considered those important. If you tagged me for being a scammer based on proof and for a legitimate reason, and out of revenge I tagged you as well adding nothing but profanity in the comment box, that tag has no weight or value whatsoever.

Conversations about the fact that this option also helps to fight spam does not carry anything, otherwise we would see just streams of spam in Meta, because in this section there is no self-moderation and no one is in power there, except for moderators, but there, surprisingly no spam.

Spammers know that if they started writing their low-value posts in Meta, it would end badly for them very soon. Some of the best posters and various forum detectives would put them under surveillance, reporting their posts, finding connections with previously banned accounts, and ultimately getting them banned. That's why they prefer to stay far away and in sections like the altcoin boards or off-topic.

[naim027]

I was thinking to create a similar thread but I found this one. The bad thing is forums do not moderate scams. But they allow creating self-moderated threads for financial services like Gambling, Exchangers. So, This forum becomes scam heaven for those scammers. They don't care about what people say. They keep deleting negative posts or any healthy criticism. That was supposed to defend by them but they don't care about it. I think Bitcointalk should make a change there. Since they don't moderate scams, They shouldn't allow financial services to create a self-moderated thread. here is another similar case, scam accusation already created https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5375673

A few suggestions:

- Everyone who doesn't have a history of scamming others should be allowed to request self-moderated threads.
- Brand-new accounts can't request it.
- Accounts with negative trust for legitimate reasons can't have self-moderated threads.
- If you can show the people who do the whitelisting that you have been targeted unfairly by certain members in the past who have spammed your threads and tried to prevent you from carrying out your business, you would be allowed to self-mod your threads in the marketplace.

Good Suggestions, But I think the forum shouldn't allow self-moderated topics at all for financial-related services. There is a "Report to Moderator" button. They could use it if they want. Maybe theymos can implement extra features for moderators. Moderators will see the thread creators Report first. I am sure they will not get too many reports from Finacial service-related threads only. You can say why theymos should do it? Well, For Forum members safety

[Pmalek]

Good Suggestions, But I think the forum shouldn't allow self-moderated topics at all for financial-related services.

I don't think they should be removed from the marketplace boards altogether. Suchmoon mentioned a few legitimate reasons why they are needed and I agree with her/him.
*Damn it suchmoon, I never know how to address you. Do I use her or him?

But not everyone should have that privilege.
Another suggestion could be to make a post and pin it that highlights the importance of checking scrapped posts in self-moderated threads in the marketplace. We have scrappers that gather everything that is written (even posts that get deleted). I would think that many newbies aren't aware of them, and don't know that they can use them to check the entire history of a thread. That way they could see warnings that OPs of such threads have deleted if the big warning sign telling them to proceed with caution isn't enough. 

[nakamura12]

It is abused. It is much the same as abuse of power since that person have full control over thosr who post in that thread except mods of course. Let's just pray that mods will delete that post to avoid people getting scammed or even lock for letting other people know that thus is one of the way that scammers used to scam by offering (fake) service.

[Coffey_Dark]

My opinion, self-moderation is a kind of censorship, as same as post deleting by moderators. Censoships, in turn, have two sides:

• Negative: bad guys can create their self-moderated threads, then use their rights of censorship to manipulate their threads in the way they originally want, such as to scam investors. In those case, posts that say facts about scam projects will be censored by threads' creators.
• Positive: To help the forum as clean as possible by censor shitposts, off-topic posts, trolling, etc. or to help threads' owners kick out bad posters in their threads. I don't see any kind of bad effects of censorship in those cases. Someone who step in house of others, have to self-understand that they have to accept local rules of those householders. If they don't accept local rules, don't step in, just stay outside. If they don't accept local rules, but still try to step in, they will be kicked out sooner or later; and they have to accept that fact.

[naim027]

Someone who step in house of others, have to self-understand that they have to accept local rules of those householders. If they don't accept local rules, don't step in, just stay outside. If they don't accept local rules, but still try to step in, they will be kicked out sooner or later; and they have to accept that fact.

I partially agree with you. But I am sorry I cannot agree with all that you said. Suppose, You deposited on a casino and they scammed you. You didn't break any rules. if you post on their thread they delete your post and have no communication. Would you say the same that I didn't accept rules that's why I got kicked out? And That's happening. If you dig out a little bit, You will find examples as @Ratimov also wrote on the OP.

Self-Moderated thread allowed scammers to expand their business even they have negative trust and Warning on their thread. Most of the newbies don't look at it. What they did is visit the thread and read the thread and they read maximum first or and the last page. The thread creator deletes all the comments from his thread that are against his scam business. So how people will know that they operating a scam business if they didn't notice their trust rating or warning? You might say, If they don't notice warnings, you will not care about others' opinions. Not true. Sometimes it's reduced that chance.