Ledger Nano S Plus

[dkbit98]

Ledger is planning to release their new hardware wallet device called Ledger Nano S Plus in early 2022, and it will have some improvements compared to regular Ledger Nano S wallet.

What we know about Ledger Nano S Plus so far?

- Bigger memory to support more coins and apps.
- Bigger and clearer screen for better user experience.
- No Bluetooth connection.
- Two control buttons on top.
- USB-C connection.

What can we speculate about Nano S Plus?

- Added battery.
- Price between 59€ and 119€


https://twitter.com/_pgauthier/status/1471137009272074245

[Rath_]

- Added battery.

That would be totally pointless without Bluetooth or a microSD card reader and re-designed software. They have already denied this guess on Twitter.

[SFR10]

- Bigger memory to support more coins and apps.

They've just mentioned a few minutes ago that "it'll have about the same storage as the Nano X", so it's slightly less than 1.8 Mb and despite really hating how they've been dealing with certain issues, a part of me wants to get one of these when it comes out ^{[assuming that it'd come with a reasonable price tag]}.

- Price between 59€ and 119€

Judging by its feature, I have a feeling it'd be around €89 while also providing discounts to those who have purchased the Nano S lately.

[Lucius]

Judging by its feature, I have a feeling it'd be around €89 while also providing discounts to those who have purchased the Nano S lately.

I don't understand their business policy, because this move doesn't make sense to me at all - because currently X costs around 120 EUR, and S around 60 EUR, so this S plus will cost around 90 EUR - but wouldn't it be more logical to lower the price of X? They are developing a product that users allegedly want, and they already have one, the only problem is the price and the problem with the battery.

I wonder who would even think of buying an X if they don't need a BT and a battery - well, I would have bought this model if it had existed a few years ago - which means that they are deliberately sending X into history - real geniuses👎

[m2017]

Anything known about what security elements will be used?

Will it be the same Nano S with increased memory, or will the stuffing come from model X?

Idea for those trying to guess the price:
- Create a topic with rates and whoever guesses the price of a new S+ most accurately takes the bank.  

[Pmalek]

Anything known about what security elements will be used?

Yes, they mentioned that as well here. It should be equipped with the ST33K1M5C secure element. According to this thread of Secure Elements in Hardware Wallets, Ledger used ST31H320 and ST33J2M0 in their other hardware wallets (Nano S and Nano X). From what I can see on that list, no other hardware wallet currently uses this particular model.

[dkbit98]

That would be totally pointless without Bluetooth or a microSD card reader and re-designed software. They have already denied this guess on Twitter.

I saw they posted this on twitter but on image and videos they posted you can clearly see a battery symbol in upper right corner of the screen, so I don't know what's the purpose of that.

Anything known about what security elements will be used?

There is no information about that yet, but I suspect they will probably use the same secure element like in their current devices, that is ST31H320 or ST33J2M0.
We don't know device dimensions yet but they will use some stuff from old devices for sure, to reduce production cost.

It's big improvement from Nano S which only have 144 KB storage. But since some coin application size keeps growing, i wonder how long until 1.8 MB only enough for very few coin.

This is their business model, similar like smartphones are doing, make old devices obsolete, stop updating and release new more expensive devices

[m2017]

That would be totally pointless without Bluetooth or a microSD card reader and re-designed software. They have already denied this guess on Twitter.

I saw they posted this on twitter but on image and videos they posted you can clearly see a battery symbol in upper right corner of the screen, so I don't know what's the purpose of that.

They just used a display picture from Nano X for this presentation - miracle of photoshop .

Anything known about what security elements will be used?

There is no information about that yet, but I suspect they will probably use the same secure element like in their current devices, that is ST31H320 or ST33J2M0.
We don't know device dimensions yet but they will use some stuff from old devices for sure, to reduce production cost.

This model is used by almost all companies nowadays. The business wants to receive an endless stream of customer money. That's interesting to me. If the Ledger stops supporting Nano S, how will the users react? As far as I can subjectively judge, Ledger may have sold millions of devices. Discontinued support can create a crowd of disgruntled users for a company. Ledger has not had a deficit of dissatisfaction in its address lately  . Wouldn't that create an excess of discontent?

[Husna QA]

They just used a display picture from Nano X for this presentation - miracle of photoshop .

The screenshot looks like it's similar to the Nano X screen.
In my opinion, the features of the Nano S plus are still below the Nano X with a different target market.

Not all users like hardware wallets that come with batteries.


https://shop.ledger.com/pages/ledger-nano-x

https://twitter.com/Ledger/status/1469245490130829313

[Pmalek]

There is no information about that yet, but I suspect they will probably use the same secure element like in their current devices, that is ST31H320 or ST33J2M0.

They have already released information about the secure element in one of their blog posts that highlighted everything that happened on the Ledger OP3N conference they just held. There is a link to the article in my previous post. For better visibility, let me quote the part where they mention the secure element:

The Nano S Plus will be equipped with the industry-leading security element: ST33K1M5C...

https://www.ledger.com/blog/ledger-op3n-conference-product-launches-updates-our-next-milestones

[dkbit98]

The screenshot looks like it's similar to the Nano X screen.

It's lame if they actually showed image from Nano X with Nano S plus label, and that battery icon is what got me confused in the first place.

They have already released information about the secure element in one of their blog posts that highlighted everything that happened on the Ledger OP3N conference they just held. There is a link to the article in my previous post. For better visibility, let me quote the part where they mention the secure element

Hmm that is interesting information I missed, and I didn't expect they would change secure element, but it's from the same French manufacturer ST.
I will have to add that info in my topic for Secure Element tracking, what I noticed is that this new chip has 1.5 Mbytes of User Flash memory (Nano X has up to 2 Mbytes), and 64 Kbytes of User RAM (Nano X has 50 Kbytes of User RAM).
I can't find the exact price but it's possible that this chip is a bit cheaper than model ST33J2M0.

Code:

Arm® Cortex®-M35P 32-bit RISC core cadenced at 70 MHz
Operating temperature range: −30°C to 85 °C
2 Kbytes of cache memory
Up to 1.5 Mbytes of User Flash memory
64 Kbytes of User RAM

https://www.st.com/en/secure-mcus/st33k1m5c.html#overview

[LTU_btc]

I doubt that price is going to close to €60. I predict it will cost €90-€100.
Haven't bought Nano X, not planning to buy Nano S Plus. Bluetooth - only place where I connect my Ledger is PC, so Bluetooth isn't needed for me. Pay more just to have, I think it's not worth.
Same memory as on Nano X is good thing. But now I don't significant reasons why people would buy Nano X instead of Nano Plus S. Battery - I doubt it's significant reason.
For me who keep just BTC in general, Nano S with it's tiny memory is enough.

This is their business model, similar like smartphones are doing, make old devices obsolete, stop updating and release new more expensive devices

Well, now it's general trend in business. Even things like fridge is now isn't made to work forever. Otherwise nobody wouldn't buy new ones. It's not something what I like, but it's difficult to blame them.

[m2017]

I doubt that price is going to close to €60. I predict it will cost €90-€100.
Haven't bought Nano X, not planning to buy Nano S Plus. Bluetooth - only place where I connect my Ledger is PC, so Bluetooth isn't needed for me. Pay more just to have, I think it's not worth.
Same memory as on Nano X is good thing. But now I don't significant reasons why people would buy Nano X instead of Nano Plus S. Battery - I doubt it's significant reason.
For me who keep just BTC in general, Nano S with it's tiny memory is enough.

Your behavior doesn't fit in with the Ledger marketing strategies. Your device must be destroyed and you have to buy a new Nano S+.   

But seriously, what will you do if one day the manufacturer stops releasing updates for your nano S? Are you going to risk using this hardware wallet for your savings or do you decide to buy a new one? It seems to me that it is time for users to prepare an action plan for such cases. 

[Lucius]

But seriously, what will you do if one day the manufacturer stops releasing updates for your nano S? Are you going to risk using this hardware wallet for your savings or do you decide to buy a new one? It seems to me that it is time for users to prepare an action plan for such cases. 

I was thinking about it a few years ago so I decided it wouldn’t be bad to have a spare HW, then the Nano X with a 35% discount seemed like a good solution. Despite all the problems with the new devices, I have no objections to how the devices work - but given Ledger's very amateurish behavior with user data and the reactions after that, I wouldn't buy any HW from them anymore - as far as I'm concerned their reputation was ruined without the possibility of repair.

Fortunately, they are not the only company producing such devices - and as a last resort (and the safest) anyone can make airgapped devices and keep their private keys without trusting any company.

[Pmalek]

But seriously, what will you do if one day the manufacturer stops releasing updates for your nano S? Are you going to risk using this hardware wallet for your savings or do you decide to buy a new one? It seems to me that it is time for users to prepare an action plan for such cases.

If Nano S support ended on Monday, that doesn't make the hardware wallets that so many of us have vulnerable from Tuesday. They can still be used just fine. You can always follow what is going on with the development, discovered bugs, and new vulnerabilities with their newer devices and make up your mind when it's time to find an alternative. Maybe a Trezor, a Coldcard, or maybe a Bitbox. I have never given any serious thoughts to an alternative HW because so far I didn't need to. 

[NeuroticFish]

But seriously, what will you do if one day the manufacturer stops releasing updates for your nano S? Are you going to risk using this hardware wallet for your savings or do you decide to buy a new one? It seems to me that it is time for users to prepare an action plan for such cases. 

I plan to do so, unless some important vulnerability is found.
And afterwards I will order a new HW or will just use a Tails stick as cold storage/offline signer if I don't get a good deal.

I think that the proper prep is to just make sure the seed is safe and it's the right one (for the expected addresses).

[LTU_btc]

Your behavior doesn't fit in with the Ledger marketing strategies. Your device must be destroyed and you have to buy a new Nano S+.   

But seriously, what will you do if one day the manufacturer stops releasing updates for your nano S? Are you going to risk using this hardware wallet for your savings or do you decide to buy a new one? It seems to me that it is time for users to prepare an action plan for such cases. 

Yeah, I'm bad customer :/. I also don't change my phone every year when new model is released
That's good question. If Ledger will stop supporting Nano S, you still will be able to use. Same like you still can access funds on other obsolette Ledger wallets. But probably I just will get new hardware wallet and I'm not sure that it will be Ledger. Any way, I expect that Ledger will support Nano S for few years at least.

[dkbit98]

Ok guys, it's enough speculations about the looks of new Ledger Nano S Plus device.
This image was posted by Ledger CEO Pascal Gauthier and now we finally know how it looks in real life and how big the screen is compared older Nano S and Nano X.
We can see that two buttons are in similar position like on old nano S, but we still don't know what the price will be for this new device.


https://twitter.com/_pgauthier/status/1471137009272074245

[SFR10]

and how big the screen is compared older Nano S and Nano X.
~Snipped~
https://twitter.com/_pgauthier/status/1471137009272074245

The following things caught my attention:

• Despite having a larger screen, looks like it's still not going to display the full address:
  
  • Nano X has "four" lines of text ^{[screenshots: #1 and #2]}, but this one has only "three"!
    
    
• The screen they've used looks cheap ^{[the displayed text isn't that sharp]}!
  ^{- In other words, little to no improvement over the Nano S [apart from its size].}

but we still don't know what the price will be for this new device.

Judging by its overall build quality, it has to be cheaper than what I initially thought it was going to be.

[dkbit98]

In other words, little to no improvement over the Nano S

Screen does look cheap but that is nothing new and I wrote before that you can order new display for regular Nano S from China for just few dollars, I don't think that this display is much more expensive.
It appears like there is only 3 lines of text like you say, but maybe there will be more characters that can fit the whole address...so let's wait and see.
If nothing else, bigger memory and new usb type c connection is some improvement from old nano s model.