This why wall street are rich and you are poor

[JayJuanGee]

I think what the OP is trying to say here is that when you have more money to invest in an asset, then the return you are likely to gain from the asset will be more than when the capital you are investing is less. He is right, because when you invest less money in all these types of assets, the profit you are gaining wouldn’t be as much as those who invest bigger amount of money (the whales).

So, the problem for an investor can be finance; when you don’t have enough money to invest in an asset, then you will be unable to make better profit. He then pointed out that Wall St. investors would usually borrow money to invest in the stocks or assets of their choice for them to be able to multiply their profits.

The percentage rate of what you are gaining is the same, and considering if you are poor, the amount you are getting into is the amount you can afford. The problem with the difference is that whales do not have living cost worries, so they live like nothing has happened if they invest a million dollars, or 2 million, they are the same for them. Whereas we save from our daily lives and put that aside and send money accordingly.

This is what gets me, I mean if we can't even pay for our regular life, how could we invest, how could we get better? Liberals will say "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" and all, but as long as there are population crisis, too many educated people, very little pay for the same job, can't even afford a house and many other stuff, then I am sorry but we are going to end up seeing these type of problems all the time. It is not going to change any time soon.

I will agree with you that the "haves" have the advantage, and they are able to build credit and various kinds of ways to practice with their credit that will give them further access that is not even available for normies, and also as they use their credit they build more credit and receive more favorable rates.

For sure the cards are stacked against the normies and even worse-so against those who are barely able to squeak out any kind of income that goes above and beyond their living expenses. 

Surely it is not good or healthy to gamble with your living expenses merely because you want to get ahead, so you do need to attempt to manage your money in such a way that gives you as much advantage as you can.. and for sure it can take a long time to both build wealth and also to start to obtain compounding effects that compound and compound upon themselves to cause your money to work more and more for you.

Bitcoin gives way more access than what normies might have had under a variety of traditional investment mechanisms/avenues.  Bitcoin allows for both entrance without prequalifications and abilities to invest amounts that are very small, such as $10 per week.... Historically bitcoin has allowed normies with even that low of investment amounts (such as $10 per week) to have put themselves in a much better place, and sure maybe these days it would be better to attempt to be more aggressive, such as $100 per week, if you can manage such.

Personally, I do not recommend investing in shitcoins.. or the variations..and sure it could take 10 years or longer for normies who are investing small amounts into bitcoin - even as high as $100 per week to really start to feel that they are receiving compounding effects on the capital that they have put into bitcoin (and hopefully they are not putting so much into bitcoin that they are tempted to withdraw it too soon and before really starting to get compounding effects... it's not guaranteed either, even though it is an asymmetric bet).

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[dezoel]

They borrow money right? That is also the reason some of them go seriously broke. After borrowing money and investing in the wrong assets, they lose it and then they get themselves into a heavy depth that they would find difficult in paying off.  Taking loans is really a huge risk, except maybe when you are very sure of what you’re doing with that money, and you know very well that there is the tendency that the money you are borrowing is going to yield a huge amount of profit enough for you to also pay back the amount that you have borrowed and still have more remaining.

I’m not really going to encourage anyone to take debt, for me it is best for you to raise that money for yourself. Although like I did say, except when you are at least 90% sure of what you are doing.

[S A KHAIR]

They borrow money right? That is also the reason some of them go seriously broke. After borrowing money and investing in the wrong assets, they lose it and then they get themselves into a heavy depth that they would find difficult in paying off.  Taking loans is really a huge risk, except maybe when you are very sure of what you’re doing with that money, and you know very well that there is the tendency that the money you are borrowing is going to yield a huge amount of profit enough for you to also pay back the amount that you have borrowed and still have more remaining.

I’m not really going to encourage anyone to take debt, for me it is best for you to raise that money for yourself. Although like I did say, except when you are at least 90% sure of what you are doing.

It is not a bad thing to take a loan. Many people's lives have changed with a loan. Many people have improved their lives by investing in good deeds with loans. Although there is a record of bankruptcy in some cases, it is not correct in all cases. Such banks lend us money. And because of the opportunity to get a loan from a bank, poverty has come down a lot. But yes, investing in the shit project by taking a loan is really harmful to both investor and lender.

[Gyfts]

n order to get rich in the cryptocurrency market, you need to learn how to properly analyze all projects and cryptocurrency assets in order to find the best pearls that will give a good profit. in my opinion every cryptocurrency trader is much more likely to become rich than a wall street official. Today I am studying the defi platform for finance very much. Anyway, all blockchain money transfers will take the market to another level and projects like AccoinCrypto can make everyone rich.

I think what the OP is trying to say here is that when you have more money to invest in an asset, then the return you are likely to gain from the asset will be more than when the capital you are investing is less. He is right, because when you invest less money in all these types of assets, the profit you are gaining wouldn’t be as much as those who invest bigger amount of money (the whales).

So, the problem for an investor can be finance; when you don’t have enough money to invest in an asset, then you will be unable to make better profit. He then pointed out that Wall St. investors would usually borrow money to invest in the stocks or assets of their choice for them to be able to multiply their profits.

The premise of what OP saying isn't very logical. The more money anyone invests, whether it be an institutional investor or an ordinary person, that investment amount is directly proportional to the risk incurred, so why would anyone expect the profit structure to somehow stacked against the smaller investor? More risk means higher returns. Greater risks are also associated with greater losses. If a Wall street investor chooses to borrow money to invest, that's their prerogative. Recall during the GME squeeze, one of the investment firms responsible for shorting had to borrow millions in order to cover their losses. And of course, those millions went up in flames as the stock price continued to climb. In that instance, the wall street guys got burned, regardless of the access to capital they had.

[JayJuanGee]

n order to get rich in the cryptocurrency market, you need to learn how to properly analyze all projects and cryptocurrency assets in order to find the best pearls that will give a good profit. in my opinion every cryptocurrency trader is much more likely to become rich than a wall street official. Today I am studying the defi platform for finance very much. Anyway, all blockchain money transfers will take the market to another level and projects like AccoinCrypto can make everyone rich.

I think what the OP is trying to say here is that when you have more money to invest in an asset, then the return you are likely to gain from the asset will be more than when the capital you are investing is less. He is right, because when you invest less money in all these types of assets, the profit you are gaining wouldn’t be as much as those who invest bigger amount of money (the whales).

So, the problem for an investor can be finance; when you don’t have enough money to invest in an asset, then you will be unable to make better profit. He then pointed out that Wall St. investors would usually borrow money to invest in the stocks or assets of their choice for them to be able to multiply their profits.

The premise of what OP saying isn't very logical. The more money anyone invests, whether it be an institutional investor or an ordinary person, that investment amount is directly proportional to the risk incurred, so why would anyone expect the profit structure to somehow stacked against the smaller investor? More risk means higher returns. Greater risks are also associated with greater losses. If a Wall street investor chooses to borrow money to invest, that's their prerogative. Recall during the GME squeeze, one of the investment firms responsible for shorting had to borrow millions in order to cover their losses. And of course, those millions went up in flames as the stock price continued to climb. In that instance, the wall street guys got burned, regardless of the access to capital they had.

For sure there are variations on the terms that anyone can get, when getting a loan, and the more resources that you have, the more likely you are able to negotiate more favorable loan terms.

So, the mere fact that poor people and/or normies might not be able to negotiate as many good terms as rich people, does not mean that they should not attempt to use the power of leverage in their favor.. to the extent that they can negotiate terms that are sufficiently acceptable to them and their contemplated way(s) to use the proceeds of the loan.

Regarding poor outcomes, such as your GME, example you are correct that even folks with the greatest of negotiating power and already existing capital could get burned pretty badly, and the loan or the additional leverage did not end up being sufficient from getting them out of their pickle or to show that they were advantaged in using the leverage... like you said, their use of leverage ended up causing them to be in even a worse position than they would have been if they had just left the matter alone....and not taken on the additional debt.

[Fortify]

They borrow money to buy assets before bull run
They use borrowed money to make more money.
If u dont learn how to use DEbt to create wealth then u stay poor all ur life.

U never use loaned funds just to buy things for u if u dont have ur own money enough.
First rule you use loaned money to make money.
Stocks and crypto u borrow always before bull run and sell ur assets even the real estate when markets are booming u pay back the loan u wait the market drops u repeat the process.

If anyone start doing this no profit for wall street wealthy guys anymore thats how powerful is investing money what u borrowed.

The first and possibly most important point you're overlooking is the fact that "wall street" generally consists of people who are already rich, or at least managing the funds of the rich. When you have enough money to live a very expensive lifestyle and could do so many times over, then you usually have lots of spare cash. That spare cash often accumulates to more than an average person would ever earn and it can be invested without fear, as there is enough space capacity that they could lose a lot of money without a material impact. All that invested money, sitting untouched, generates both capital gains (prices go up on owned shares) and regular dividends which are usually automatically set up to buy more. Basically, the rich gets richer - a well known phrase by now.

[Widdop37]

Use borrowed money to make more money, I accept this advice but no one is talking about the possibility of losing that money and what trouble will invade your life after losing such money, wallstreet is full of smarter people if you copy wallstreet you will land in trouble, so this advice isn't for everyone, debt can take life too

[Gyfts]

...

When I describe poor, I just mean lack of access to capital. Hard to have any leverage when you don't have any capital, but even then, in any free market system where the laws/regulations are followed, the leverage the whales have can dissipate if they make the wrong move, as I alluded to in my GME example.

So the risk is relative, but still proportional. Wall Street is rich because they engage in risk, while poor people generally don't.

Problem with wall street is crony capitalism, but that's another discussion.

[judaspriest]

Use borrowed money to make more money, I accept this advice but no one is talking about the possibility of losing that money and what trouble will invade your life after losing such money, wallstreet is full of smarter people if you copy wallstreet you will land in trouble, so this advice isn't for everyone, debt can take life too

That's true if someone is not smart and wise in managing their own finances including the loan money then it is very risky,
think carefully before making the decision so that later you don't regret it,
in crypto if you are not careful you will easily lose money

[JayJuanGee]

...

When I describe poor, I just mean lack of access to capital. Hard to have any leverage when you don't have any capital, but even then, in any free market system where the laws/regulations are followed, the leverage the whales have can dissipate if they make the wrong move, as I alluded to in my GME example.

So the risk is relative, but still proportional. Wall Street is rich because they engage in risk, while poor people generally don't.

Problem with wall street is crony capitalism, but that's another discussion.

Even if we might end up saying similar things, but just emphasizing different aspects, I doubt that differences between players is just a matter of magnitude.  At any given time, we may or may not have access to some of the same tools, and for sure there are folks who have access from their birth.  Some of the advantages/disadvantages come from geographical location, and some come from level of starting financial / social resources.  In some places you are able to build yourself into some of the circles of advantage, and other places you are going to have a very tough time of it, such as if you coming from having hardly any resources or even opportunities to teach yourself because you are pretty much forced to work, and maybe even "learning" is frowned upon.

You might not even be able to identify ways that you might possibly be able to get ahead because you actually believe some of the information in your upbrining, including that even if you could qualify for being able to use debt, you have no ideas regarding how to employ it in order that it makes more money than the service fees attached to it.

I am neither suggesting that these varying situations are futile for those in disadvantaged places or that mere access to money is going to allow some poor uneducated sod to figure out how to employ capital in advantages ways.  At the same time skills can likely be learned for those ready, willing and able to learn, and so surely sometimes the ditch digger is going to have to bust his ass to be able to spend 10 hours per week studying the matter.. and have quite a few difficulties relating.. for sure in the beginning, and maybe there are ways to practice without losing his shirt, too.  Normies do frequently need to learn the advantages of moderation, incrementalism and preservation of capital, and not even blaming normies for tending to make major mistakes with their capital when they do end up getting access to capital that could facilitate their getting out of disadvantaged circumstances. 

I do believe that bitcoin is a very strong tool that could help to get normies out of disadvantaged circumstances so long as they learn some of the techniques that will contribute to their building principle and capital rather than putting too much of their capital at risk in any moves that they make.

People who come from somewhat advantaged circumstances could potentially improve their situation vastly in 4-10 years, adn people in less advantages circumstances might take 10-30 years or longer.. and surely some of the difficulties that normies have is to attempt to unrealistically accelerate their situation, and loans/debt are not necessarily going to disadvantage them so long as they have some realistic knowledge regarding how to employ such capital, and sometimes, they just might not yet be in a position to employ debt/loans wisely, but with some practice, they potentially could end up figuring out ways to use loans/debt in ways that contribute to their getting to positions that they may well would have not been able to get to without the use of such debt/loans.

[FanEagle]

Robert Kiyosaki approach of life is not something you can do today if you are "poor". If you are middle class or have a bit of savings then you can do it, but when you are "poor" you can't do it. So, let's assume they create debt that is used for buying assets, I am not a very poor person but I certainly do not have anywhere near enough to buy a house, like maybe 5% of a house saved aside, how am I suppose to get a loan for 95% of the house? I can't right?

This is why poor people can't make wealth not because they do not know how to, yeah sure there are some people who you can give a million dollars and in 10 years they will be working for someone else, but in reality if you could purchase real estate, you would and you should but most people do not have that kind of money and that is why they can't do it and not because they do not know how to.

[JayJuanGee]

Robert Kiyosaki approach of life is not something you can do today if you are "poor". If you are middle class or have a bit of savings then you can do it, but when you are "poor" you can't do it. So, let's assume they create debt that is used for buying assets, I am not a very poor person but I certainly do not have anywhere near enough to buy a house, like maybe 5% of a house saved aside, how am I suppose to get a loan for 95% of the house? I can't right?

This is why poor people can't make wealth not because they do not know how to, yeah sure there are some people who you can give a million dollars and in 10 years they will be working for someone else, but in reality if you could purchase real estate, you would and you should but most people do not have that kind of money and that is why they can't do it and not because they do not know how to.

Sure there might be some sense of futility, and it is quite likely that your rate of savings have to grow faster than the price of housing... which does vary from region to region.

What is your plan?

I would suggest DCA'ing into bitcoin as part of your plan (and maybe even a substantial portion of your plan.. depending on various options that you might have available to yourself.. while you are saying that you do not have very many options currently available).. and if you are persistently investing into bitcoin maybe in 4-10 years, you will be in a better position than you are in now.

Let's say, for example, you have saved around $5k over the past few years, so in that regard, your target house is currently priced around $100k in value.

You can either lump sum buy BTC with the hypothetical $5k that you have saved, or you can DCA with the $5k that you already have and to spread such DCA'ing of your already established value into BTC over the next 6 months to year depending on how you want to go about it. 

Personally, I would suggest some considerations of front loading your investment of the $5k into BTC and then start some kind of an attempted aggressive ongoing BTC strategy into BTC.. whether you are able to do $100 per week which would get you about an additional $5,200 invested each year into BTC, or if you cannot afford $100 per week to invest into BTC then you do what you can.. maybe $50 per week or whatever is reasonably manageable for you....

Of course, no matter what you do, you are responsible for your own decisions and the weighing of what kinds of strategies that you might employ when it comes to something like BTC investing and how over time you build your BTC holdings and there are no guarantees that BTC will outperform the dollar or other investment possibilities, but seems to be a very good investment with decently great asymmetric possibilities to build wealth.. especially if you are investing over the next 4-10 years and maybe you will get lucky to get upward performance before those 4-10 years into the future... People do not tend to get rich quick, even though sometimes if you are prudent you might be able to put yourself into positions that improve your situation and your odds for opportunities.

Another matter with any investment into BTC or any other investment, is that you should maintain some kind of reasonable emergency fund that covers you for 3-6 months minimum in case some of your sources of cashflow dry up.. so it would be risky to NOT maintain some kind of a cash savings outside of bitcoin and other investments that you have.   

In other words, I would suggest NOT being too greedy in terms of attempting to build the wealth of your own situation and to be working on putting yourself into a better position, in the event that you are wanting to get a loan for real estate (such as your own home) or otherwise building up your own capital to likely cause yourself to have more savings in order that you likely will NOT feel rushed into accepting any kinds of loan terms because the more that you are able to bring to the table in terms of your own wealth and built up value, the more likely that you are going to be able to negotiate better loan terms in the event that you do end up entering into some kind of a loan product.. and sure it could take 4-10 years to put yourself into a decently good or great or better position, depending upon where you are now and if you are able to exercise ongoing prudence in your own management of your building of wealth and preserving of your principle too.. hopefully.

[Tumanggor]

They borrow money to buy assets before bull run
They use borrowed money to make more money.
If u dont learn how to use DEbt to create wealth then u stay poor all ur life.

U never use loaned funds just to buy things for u if u dont have ur own money enough.
First rule you use loaned money to make money.
Stocks and crypto u borrow always before bull run and sell ur assets even the real estate when markets are booming u pay back the loan u wait the market drops u repeat the process.

If anyone start doing this no profit for wall street wealthy guys anymore thats how powerful is investing money what u borrowed.

In fact, most startups and large entrepreneurs, are able to become successful entrepreneurs after being in debt. Debt from banks is used for productive activities so that entrepreneurs get profits. That is called productive debt.

the fact is that not everyone is able to successfully manage their debt to be productive and profit doubled

until now I'm still learning this trick, because as you said when the crypto market is bearish then borrowing money from a bank or other to buy crypto is the best moment

May we all be able to manage debt productively

[Maslate]

They borrow money to buy assets before bull run
They use borrowed money to make more money.
If u dont learn how to use DEbt to create wealth then u stay poor all ur life.

U never use loaned funds just to buy things for u if u dont have ur own money enough.
First rule you use loaned money to make money.
Stocks and crypto u borrow always before bull run and sell ur assets even the real estate when markets are booming u pay back the loan u wait the market drops u repeat the process.

If anyone start doing this no profit for wall street wealthy guys anymore thats how powerful is investing money what u borrowed.

In fact, most startups and large entrepreneurs, are able to become successful entrepreneurs after being in debt. Debt from banks is used for productive activities so that entrepreneurs get profits. That is called productive debt.

the fact is that not everyone is able to successfully manage their debt to be productive and profit doubled

until now I'm still learning this trick, because as you said when the crypto market is bearish then borrowing money from a bank or other to buy crypto is the best moment

May we all be able to manage debt productively

We can learn that, it's not a trick by the way. It's being smart and we can always use it in a situation where we think the market is bearish so we can buy cheap assets. It's always nice to accumulate when people panic, and borrowing money from the bank should not be a burden especially if we are playing like 20% a year because it's not only 100% increase we will see, we could see more especially during the bull run.

[KingsDen]

<snip>

I believe that the rich in the context of OP is;
Someone that has ample access to information;
Someone that good access to credit facilities;
Perhaps, someone with good investment acumen.
It's always nice investing with a borrowed capital, it makes one appear smart and ease investment stress.
Then, you cannot risk your investment funds with shitcoins. Bitcoin is the only genuine way. In bitcoin, when your investment goes wrong, there is a high likely that it will bounce back, unlike shit coins.

[lumbanrang]

What makes the rich richer and the poor poorer is how easy it is for them to get a loan from the bank and use it properly for investment purposes, be it in the short or long term. They are not afraid to take risks in borrowing large amounts of money, because they have plans to settle their debts if they can't pay them.

[Xinarae*]

It is important for a person to have some savings to start investing it is a good idea for rich people to take out loans for investment because they can afford more but borrowing from the poor will make them poorer. Lacking their knowledge and experience they cannot invest in the right work but for the rich the only source of credit for a large business is debt. These come in handy in small enterprises wealthy people conquer everything with their intellect.

[stepwilli]

It is important for a person to have some savings to start investing it is a good idea for rich people to take out loans for investment because they can afford more but borrowing from the poor will make them poorer. Lacking their knowledge and experience they cannot invest in the right work but for the rich the only source of credit for a large business is debt. These come in handy in small enterprises wealthy people conquer everything with their intellect.

Knowledge has no boundaries and not only limited to rich people. Poor people have low amount of money but he can use this to experience what is investing like, if he fails he will try to learn from his failure if he want to improve and if he is successful with it, that is how his money can slowly increase till he can afford big investments and experience greater returns.

Rich people can start with investing in bigger amounts but not all of them can become successful. If you read the news or watch some videos online, you will came across a story similar to what I am saying here. Being knowledgeable is not enough but the way you control you self is important too.

[Kasabus]

They borrow money to buy assets before bull run
They use borrowed money to make more money.
If u dont learn how to use DEbt to create wealth then u stay poor all ur life.

U never use loaned funds just to buy things for u if u dont have ur own money enough.
First rule you use loaned money to make money.
Stocks and crypto u borrow always before bull run and sell ur assets even the real estate when markets are booming u pay back the loan u wait the market drops u repeat the process.

If anyone start doing this no profit for wall street wealthy guys anymore thats how powerful is investing money what u borrowed.

In fact, most startups and large entrepreneurs, are able to become successful entrepreneurs after being in debt. Debt from banks is used for productive activities so that entrepreneurs get profits. That is called productive debt.

the fact is that not everyone is able to successfully manage their debt to be productive and profit doubled

until now I'm still learning this trick, because as you said when the crypto market is bearish then borrowing money from a bank or other to buy crypto is the best moment

May we all be able to manage debt productively

We can learn that, it's not a trick by the way. It's being smart and we can always use it in a situation where we think the market is bearish so we can buy cheap assets. It's always nice to accumulate when people panic, and borrowing money from the bank should not be a burden especially if we are playing like 20% a year because it's not only 100% increase we will see, we could see more especially during the bull run.

Having debts is always a wise idea if you have smart plans for it, but its never really that important especially if you can start a business even with a minimum capital. And i think investing in crypto will never really need a huge capital, that you have to go on financing companies and lets you pay the additional interest. You can expand your investment and create bigger profits if you are already making good returns from your initial investment. Because not all debtors are capable to generate profits.

[Farma]

Well, I quite agree with this. borrow money, to make more money. however, in the crypto world, we never know which coins will be pumped, and which ones will be dumped. although there is quite a lot of speculation that we have, prices always move based on information that has happened. well, so it's very risky to borrow money then try to invest in crypto. however, if you believe in the risks you can take, well, then give it a try.
it's just that, based on this, I came to understand that people who move and take risks to take big profits are faced with two things, namely losses, and very large profits. What makes most people rich is that they take those risks.