This why wall street are rich and you are poor

[judaspriest]

While I would agree with you that borrowing money can certainly help create wealth but there is nothing saying that if you don’t borrow money you won’t be successful, that’s simply not true. For a lot of people borrowing money can be a very dangerous proposition. Many people do not have the proper mindset to borrow money responsibly and would be much better off never doing so. 

Actually, each person has their own opinion regarding borrowing money,
there's nothing wrong with it as long as we can manage it well it doesn't cause problems,
what is clear is that we can't equalize everyone's opinion

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[pealr12]

This is not rocket science, it is simple logic, if you are borrowing money then borrow for the right reason, and I complain agree with borrowing to buy in the dip and sell during the bull run but we can't predict the way the market will go, up or down and how long it will stay down, and I won't advise borrowing without having a different source of repayment just in case market didn't go as expected, it is risky but if things turned well could also be rewarding.

[Huppercase]

The rich always find a way to keep accumulating wealth, this is why they hardly want to let's go of any investment or opportunity they sight their eyes own.
Poor man on the other side of the world that's been unfair too is still struggling on how to be financially stable and feed the family, foot bills and pay insurance for health and natural disasters. It's not even all poor that thomk about other options I outlined, majority are struggling to feed themselves, how do you convince them to invest when they have nothing to invest as capital.

[wxa7115]

This is not rocket science, it is simple logic, if you are borrowing money then borrow for the right reason, and I complain agree with borrowing to buy in the dip and sell during the bull run but we can't predict the way the market will go, up or down and how long it will stay down, and I won't advise borrowing without having a different source of repayment just in case market didn't go as expected, it is risky but if things turned well could also be rewarding.

If you are going to do that then why not just use leverage and call it a day? After all that is precisely what leverage is, you are borrowing money to buy an asset and buy way more of it than what you could otherwise buy in order to increase your profits.

Asking for a loan to a bank is just a more roundabout way to do the same with the difference the interest rates you will have to pay for such loan are probably higher, however I still think it is a bad idea to do it unless you are an expert trader with years of experience in the markets, and evne then doing something like this is a very risky maneuver.

[TravelMug]

The rich always find a way to keep accumulating wealth, this is why they hardly want to let's go of any investment or opportunity they sight their eyes own.

Of course, I would say that majority of them are smart investors and are going to take every opportunity to make money not just in crypto market but in all other financial investments that they can find.

Poor man on the other side of the world that's been unfair too is still struggling on how to be financially stable and feed the family, foot bills and pay insurance for health and natural disasters. It's not even all poor that thomk about other options I outlined, majority are struggling to feed themselves, how do you convince them to invest when they have nothing to invest as capital.

Oh well, to be honest, I'm neither rich nor poor, however, I was able to understand how financial works when I started to get a job so I just balance everything. Have some savings in the bank and then some investments in stocks and in crypto in the last 5 years, so I can't complain. I do not want to comment about the poor maybe it was really fate that put them in that position. As for our crypto investments, let it be, being a holder here is a choice and it's a good one. It might take years to see your money grow, but once it multiple then it will all be satisfying.

[pinggoki]

Oh, so it's not because the poor people have been systematically oppressed by the ruling class and any form of making money is crippled that only those that was borne of high status can achieve. Not everyone is like those Wall Street douchebags so your point isn't valid.

I don't think rich individuals are actually to blame for people who do not have so much money, I mean many people had to work really hard to get to where they are now, they also make smart and astute moves and took out time for self development, and there have also been poor people who along the line made life changing decisions that made them rich, what I'm saying is I'm of the believe that the ability to make wealth sometimes rest in our hands/decisions we make, I know there are people that had things easy for them from birth, but there have also been others who struggled to get it to the top, so no need blaming anyone. Having said that, I'd rather blame some corrupt government that embezzle national funds for their own benefits, they are bigger problems than private rich individuals.

Yes, there are those that have worked hard and I think it's a noble pursuit but once they have a taste of power and influence at the top, they're going to start systemically making everyone poor, I mean you don't want everyone to be well off and not dependent on you right? Lobbying won't exist if the rich doesn't want poor people to stay poor. They have a part in those misery.

[Masplanc]

Getting loan to invest depends on what to invest on to get more money. This act can't favour everyone, Getting loan to invest is risky though. But sometimes it favours those who are  understand what they are into. Borrowing money to start up business is not bad but not for people who can't manage money well.

[DrBeer]

It is also worth remembering that "in the world of corporations" there are still many special laws and regulations. Which will never be available to an individual. For example, the same bankruptcy procedure. As simple and unobtrusive as a company can start a bankruptcy procedure, and what difficulties will be when trying to declare oneself, an ordinary person, bankrupt! How easily multimillion-dollar obligations will be written off, and how you will be shaken out to the wrong side for every cent. And many other, simpler and less painful procedures for businesses, but not for individuals. Therefore, the risks and consequences of ineffective investment there are less “gentler”, and corporations are allowed to “play naughty”, which is not allowed for the layman

[justdimin]

Poor man on the other side of the world that's been unfair too is still struggling on how to be financially stable and feed the family, foot bills and pay insurance for health and natural disasters. It's not even all poor that thomk about other options I outlined, majority are struggling to feed themselves, how do you convince them to invest when they have nothing to invest as capital.

Oh well, to be honest, I'm neither rich nor poor, however, I was able to understand how financial works when I started to get a job so I just balance everything. Have some savings in the bank and then some investments in stocks and in crypto in the last 5 years, so I can't complain. I do not want to comment about the poor maybe it was really fate that put them in that position. As for our crypto investments, let it be, being a holder here is a choice and it's a good one. It might take years to see your money grow, but once it multiple then it will all be satisfying.

I am not rich nor poor as well and I have figured that out as well. So farm I have always focused on making my portfolio bigger but did not consider passive income too much, which is why wealthy people are doing most of the time as well. I have to say that there is a guarantee most rich people leverage themselves against the inflation and just do passive income that increases in asset value. The most known version that everyone can understand easily is buying a house and renting it, you are making a passive income from the rent but the value of the house goes up at the same time.

For 2022, my goal is to reach 100 dollars a month passive income, not a lot, very tiny for most people, but I will reinvest that anyway so let's see if I can do it. Understanding finances is not easy, but it is not difficult neither, as long as you have time to read and learn.

[Gozie51]

While I would agree with you that borrowing money can certainly help create wealth but there is nothing saying that if you don’t borrow money you won’t be successful, that’s simply not true. For a lot of people borrowing money can be a very dangerous proposition. Many people do not have the proper mindset to borrow money responsibly and would be much better off never doing so. 

It is about good planning if properly invested that will generate profit like buying the right time, that is the lows. Borrowing for the right reason is a nice means to wealth, it helps to get someone to riches faster. In the financial teaching, it is a means to raise more funds than saving.

[DrBeer]

Poor man on the other side of the world that's been unfair too is still struggling on how to be financially stable and feed the family, foot bills and pay insurance for health and natural disasters. It's not even all poor that thomk about other options I outlined, majority are struggling to feed themselves, how do you convince them to invest when they have nothing to invest as capital.

Oh well, to be honest, I'm neither rich nor poor, however, I was able to understand how financial works when I started to get a job so I just balance everything. Have some savings in the bank and then some investments in stocks and in crypto in the last 5 years, so I can't complain. I do not want to comment about the poor maybe it was really fate that put them in that position. As for our crypto investments, let it be, being a holder here is a choice and it's a good one. It might take years to see your money grow, but once it multiple then it will all be satisfying.

I am not rich nor poor as well and I have figured that out as well. So farm I have always focused on making my portfolio bigger but did not consider passive income too much, which is why wealthy people are doing most of the time as well. I have to say that there is a guarantee most rich people leverage themselves against the inflation and just do passive income that increases in asset value. The most known version that everyone can understand easily is buying a house and renting it, you are making a passive income from the rent but the value of the house goes up at the same time.

For 2022, my goal is to reach 100 dollars a month passive income, not a lot, very tiny for most people, but I will reinvest that anyway so let's see if I can do it. Understanding finances is not easy, but it is not difficult neither, as long as you have time to read and learn.

And what is "passive income" in your understanding? Passive income is often an investment in a working project / production / business, on favorable terms, with the subsequent regular receipt of a part of the profit generated by this investment object. Or so - an object that generates profit, without your participation, and without your efforts.
If this is the case, all that remains is to "find" the right investment object. But you should always remember - "nothing lasts forever under the moon", well, external factors can have a very negative effect on such projects. In any case, I wish you success. But I also recommend thinking about diversifying the channels for making a profit, especially more than $ 100 per month is an absolutely small amount. That same bitcointalk subscription campaign - here's a semi-passive income, albeit it requires some involvement and little work.

[wxa7115]

The rich always find a way to keep accumulating wealth, this is why they hardly want to let's go of any investment or opportunity they sight their eyes own.
Poor man on the other side of the world that's been unfair too is still struggling on how to be financially stable and feed the family, foot bills and pay insurance for health and natural disasters. It's not even all poor that thomk about other options I outlined, majority are struggling to feed themselves, how do you convince them to invest when they have nothing to invest as capital.

This is not completely correct, some capital is needed, that is true, but many businesses have began with almost no investment coming from their owners and they still became incredibly rich as they found ways against that limitation.

After all the most important thing that moves a business is innovation, if you can innovate and you have a good idea then you do not need to have a huge amount of capital to start your business, and even in the case that what you are planning to do requires large amounts of cash you can always get investors to back you up if the idea is good enough, so this idea that you need to have a lot of capital to become rich is not necessarily true.

[titular]

If u dont learn how to use DEbt to create wealth then u stay poor all ur life.
First rule you use loaned money to make money.

"Always use someone else's money."

It's been said for ages now. Using someone else's capital to fund investments is always the safest way to go. This is nothing new and people will continue to do this as long as there is money to lend. (Which there always will be.)

[Fortify]

They borrow money to buy assets before bull run
They use borrowed money to make more money.
If u dont learn how to use DEbt to create wealth then u stay poor all ur life.

U never use loaned funds just to buy things for u if u dont have ur own money enough.
First rule you use loaned money to make money.
Stocks and crypto u borrow always before bull run and sell ur assets even the real estate when markets are booming u pay back the loan u wait the market drops u repeat the process.

If anyone start doing this no profit for wall street wealthy guys anymore thats how powerful is investing money what u borrowed.

Wall street banks at setup from the very beginning to make money in markets whether they are good or bad. However, as we saw from the sub prime mortgage crisis in 2008 - sometimes they get too greedy and they manage to wipe themselves out. Low interest rates have actually been a menace to the traditional banking sector which relies on deposits and giving mortgages with a fixed balance between the two. However investment banks are able to go wild and borrow money at very cheap rates, that then get flipped into even more money. The worst part is - they often make a margin with almost zero risk because they'll use all sorts of beneficial leverage or put their customers money in the danger zone before their own.

[JayJuanGee]

I don't think taking loan to invest in cryptocurrency. Trading in general is a risky game so there is no point to advice someone to take loan for crypto investment, it's a rule not to invest the amount you can't avoid to loose, and loaned money will not give proper mindset. Cryptocurrency market is not really predictable, so taking loan to trade is not a good advice.

I once tried to borrow money from a bank as investment capital in crypto, but it didn't meet my expectations. The price of the coins I bought
keeps dropping, while I have to pay my loan installments regularly every month. Finally I experienced financial problems, because the money
to buy daily needs I had to use to pay off debts. Like you said the crypto market is very difficult to predict, so it's not a good idea to borrow money
to invest in crypto. It's better if we invest with small capital, but from the extra money we have, so in the future there will be no financial problems
if the market does not match our expectations.

That's the risk of borrowing money for investment if it doesn't match expectations, and having to pay according to the agreement is very uncomfortable if our finances are not good.
Never risk certainty with uncertainty, because investment is uncertainty that does not necessarily match expectations, it would be better if you borrow money for urgent or very important purposes such as for treatment due to illness or other.

Invest according to your ability even in small amounts, do not force what is not in accordance with the circumstances, borrow money for investment because you will face two risks, loss if your investment fails and still repay your loan under any circumstances.

Wawa2013's description of what happened to him, shows that none of us should be borrowing to invest in something that is uncertain, unless we also have funds (cashflow) in which we are able to pay back the loan in the event that our investment does not go in the direction that we had hoped. 

Let me be clear, I do agree with the overall power of using debt to leverage getting rich faster than you might otherwise be able to, as OP is proposing, but if we are attempting to apply this question to crypto for sure, I would not recommend to invest in any kinds of shitcoins or various crypto projects whether by loan or otherwise, unless you are really clear about the value proposition in the various shitcoins.. in other words, I see every single project other than bitcoin to have too many risks, so I would not invest in them.

On the other hand, I recommend to invest in bitcoin.. especially on at least a 4 year timeline or greater.. sure 10 years or longer would even be better.

For sure, in the short-term there can be some uncertainties regarding BTC's price direction, so that is a risk that anyone using leverage (debt) would need to be willing to take.  In that regard, there would be a need and ability to be able to ride out potential ups and downs of the BTC price along the way, even though it seems quite likely that BTC prices are going to be up 4 years from now, but not so certain on shorter time horizons.. even possible that we will never be able to get BTC for these low $40k prices ever again... ..

Let's say for example, we were able to get a loan for $22k with a 5 year payback horizon and a 6% interest rate.  That would allow us to buy right around 0.5 BTC right now, and our servicing of such $22k debt would cost $432 per month (and by the way, a 5-year loan for $22k at 6% per annum that is serviced over the full-term would end up costing $3,459 - so the total payback would be $25,459). 

Even if we might not be clear about the short term price direction of BTC, we might still believe that it is better to buy 0.5 bitcoin and pay 6% per year on that debt for the next five years instead of taking a chance that we are not able to buy BTC as cheap because we believe that BTC prices might go up by more than 6% per year.. perhaps even 12% or 50% per year.

So, if we have resources to be able to pay back the loan at $432 per month, we feel that we may well be able to get more bitcoin by getting such $22k loan now rather than to buy BTC at $432 per month for the next 5 years with that same money. Our bet pays off if BTC performs greater than the amount of our loan over that same period of time, so if BTC performs at equal to or less than 6% per year, then we would not have gotten any extra value out of locking in the purchase of 0.5 BTC right away rather than just buying $108 of BTC per week with our loan payment amounts. 

Of course, if  BTC were to end up performing better than 6% per year over that time, then we end up getting surplus value out of the loan and we were able to get more BTC than we would have otherwise been able to get if we had not relied upon the loan.

Even though I am NOT against using debt to finance various kinds of speculation (or investment in something like BTC), the calculation that each person needs to take would be to calculate and account for would be what are the odds that the loan could make you better off than if you had not taken the loan, and surely if you do not take the loan, you still could dedicate that money to investing in bitcoin, but the investment ends up getting spread over 5 years rather than being able to invest to buy 0.5 BTC (as in the example) right now.  Of course, I do not believe in relying on the proceeds of the investment to be able to pay off the loan, even though that could be a benefit if a greater than expected (or at least way higher than 6% per year) upside scenario were to play out... which also does happen from time to time and front loading your investment with 0.5 BTC extra now may well put you in a better position to benefit from any exponential upside scenario that could take place within the terms of the loan rather the slower investment style that would end up causing you to not be able to get as many BTC because they end up costing potentially exponentially more later.

By the way, another thing with BTC is that I tend to recommend that newbie normies do not even need to be taking a lot of risk when they get into BTC, so sure if they can get a loan, they might consider doing that, but if it is too burdensome and complicated or stressful for them, they can just do what they can and invest as much as they reasonably can over 4-10 years or longer, and even if it ONLY ends up being $10 per week, or even as aggressively as $108 per week, like in the hypothetical payments, you likely are still going to benefit stupendously over a longer timeframe such as 4-10 years because bitcoin remains an asymmetrical bet to the upside that is likely going to continue to even benefit people of modest means who are persistent and longer term with their investment.

[MidnightWolf]

n order to get rich in the cryptocurrency market, you need to learn how to properly analyze all projects and cryptocurrency assets in order to find the best pearls that will give a good profit. in my opinion every cryptocurrency trader is much more likely to become rich than a wall street official. Today I am studying the defi platform for finance very much. Anyway, all blockchain money transfers will take the market to another level and projects like AccoinCrypto can make everyone rich.

[Axelseseclevz]

Not all wall street firms end up success, many were bankrupt, but you won't hear the bankrupt story. The higher the leverage, the higher the bankruptcy risk. And for sure, real estate business has the highest leverage across industries IIRC. What I want to say is, you don't always need leverage. You can be wealthy from side hustle without borrowing any money. The key is reinvesting your excess income, not from debt.

But what if the income that you have monthly is not even enough for your family's daily needs and you want to invest in order to gain more income? The only way is to borrow but you should use or invest it wisely. Knowledge is very important and your strategy to gain profit.

[JayJuanGee]

Not all wall street firms end up success, many were bankrupt, but you won't hear the bankrupt story. The higher the leverage, the higher the bankruptcy risk. And for sure, real estate business has the highest leverage across industries IIRC. What I want to say is, you don't always need leverage. You can be wealthy from side hustle without borrowing any money. The key is reinvesting your excess income, not from debt.

But what if the income that you have monthly is not even enough for your family's daily needs and you want to invest in order to gain more income? The only way is to borrow but you should use or invest it wisely. Knowledge is very important and your strategy to gain profit.

By definition, people who do not have enough money to meet their family's daily needs do not seem to be in a place to invest.
 
On the other hand, if such a person is able to get their finances  in order sufficiently to build an emergency fund, then thereafter s/he may be able to start to invest after that... so even $1 per day.. or some other modest amount could be put into BTC.. so long as s/he is not going to need the money for several years 4-10 years or more.

Also, seems to me that the use of debt has to be employed strategically too.. so most of the time, servicing debt costs money, so if a person is either not meeting his/her needs, or barely meeting his/her needs, s/he might not be in a position to try to use debt.  From my consideration, there needs to be some realistic calculations about whether the amount of extra cost for the debt is going to pay for itself.. so if the money has considerable assurances to return more than it costs to service the debt, then it may well be a strategically beneficial move to take on the debt, and for sure, I had already mentioned that there should be some ability to pay back the debt, even if the investment does not play out in an advantageous direction.. .. and yeah, figuring out ways to meet basic needs by increasing income or decreasing expenses are fundamental starting points too... and surely if income can be increased or expenses can be decreased, then there might end up being more money to set aside an emergency fund and then be in a position to invest and/or to take on a loan/debt for such purposes.

[doomloop]

n order to get rich in the cryptocurrency market, you need to learn how to properly analyze all projects and cryptocurrency assets in order to find the best pearls that will give a good profit. in my opinion every cryptocurrency trader is much more likely to become rich than a wall street official. Today I am studying the defi platform for finance very much. Anyway, all blockchain money transfers will take the market to another level and projects like AccoinCrypto can make everyone rich.

I think what the OP is trying to say here is that when you have more money to invest in an asset, then the return you are likely to gain from the asset will be more than when the capital you are investing is less. He is right, because when you invest less money in all these types of assets, the profit you are gaining wouldn’t be as much as those who invest bigger amount of money (the whales).

So, the problem for an investor can be finance; when you don’t have enough money to invest in an asset, then you will be unable to make better profit. He then pointed out that Wall St. investors would usually borrow money to invest in the stocks or assets of their choice for them to be able to multiply their profits.

[barbara44]

I think what the OP is trying to say here is that when you have more money to invest in an asset, then the return you are likely to gain from the asset will be more than when the capital you are investing is less. He is right, because when you invest less money in all these types of assets, the profit you are gaining wouldn’t be as much as those who invest bigger amount of money (the whales).

So, the problem for an investor can be finance; when you don’t have enough money to invest in an asset, then you will be unable to make better profit. He then pointed out that Wall St. investors would usually borrow money to invest in the stocks or assets of their choice for them to be able to multiply their profits.

The percentage rate of what you are gaining is the same, and considering if you are poor, the amount you are getting into is the amount you can afford. The problem with the difference is that whales do not have living cost worries, so they live like nothing has happened if they invest a million dollars, or 2 million, they are the same for them. Whereas we save from our daily lives and put that aside and send money accordingly.

This is what gets me, I mean if we can't even pay for our regular life, how could we invest, how could we get better? Liberals will say "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" and all, but as long as there are population crisis, too many educated people, very little pay for the same job, can't even afford a house and many other stuff, then I am sorry but we are going to end up seeing these type of problems all the time. It is not going to change any time soon.