JJG’s Outline of Bitcoin Investment Ideas

[Rockstarguy]

success is not a guarantee in bitcoin investment. realistically in as much as bitcoin have the potential of generating high returns  theres also a potential of losing the investment even in the long run because of its high volatility and is very speculative which means no one can predict what the price will be exactly so you saying that investing with the dca method you will definitely be successful could be misleading in the sense that it is not a guaranteed. we need to be well aware of the potentials of bitcoin investment.The dca is just one of the purchasing strategy in bitcoin investment as  what the dca does is to mitigate or help us in reducing the impact of the risk of loss associated with bitcoins high volatility. even though some investors achieved some level of success in bitcoin investment, but it is not a guarantee as you dont judge it with past performance as past performance does not also guarantee future performance.

Having the DCA method is not a guarantee of success in Bitcoin investment. What brings good results when using this strategy to invest in Bitcoin is good decision-making to accumulate Bitcoin and to hodl, as well as the discipline to stick to every decision. However, if your decisions can't remain the same, then it is very possible to end up with a failed investment.

The DCA strategy is a method that plays a role in investment, and every investor also has a role to play, which is to make good decisions and to be disciplined. If you are unable to fulfill your personal role, then the strategy you are applying will never lead to a successful investment. Success in investing depends on the individual first, and the strategy is just a way of making it easier.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

because of that I don't play safe when investing in Bitcoin I invest all my discretionary income in Bitcoin and if I'm saving some money I'm just reserving it for Bitcoin investment too because I have a strong backup fund's already.

If you got your bitcoin investment and your back up funds covered, then that is fine.  Hopefully you are not forgetting about discretionary consumption, too. We all need some discretionary consumption, even if you might choose to try to minimize yours.

Not every bitcoin holder today knew bitcoin was going to be this successful when they started holding,

Most of the holders of bitcoin that has been holding for the past decade have always known that bitcoin will be this big, because they already understood the growth potential in bitcoin when majority of the people were not seeing the potential in bitcoin. It is very rare to see someone hold on to something for a long time when they are not convinced that there’s potential in it and it’s worth keeping. Those that had doubts about bitcoin’s growth are not holders today.

You have wrong ideas about people.  There might be some folks who believe that they know the future, but they are just getting lucky if they think with those kinds of fantasies.  They are likely to be wrong a lot in life and even create too high of expectations if they believe that they know the future with any level of precision.

I would imagine that and overwhelming majority of reasonable folks think in terms of probabilities about the future, even if they might not realize that is what they are doing. Sure, they may assign overly high or overly low probabilities to certain events, yet if they were to be pushed on the subject, not too many folks would actually proclaim that they know the future with any level of meaningful precision.

Knowledge may not stop the price from falling but with the right knowledge an investor can at least understand when to take a break or when it is important to control their emotions. But at the end of the day human psychology and market reality do not always run in parallel having knowledge is one thing, and applying that knowledge in times of crisis is another. Excessive greed when the market is skyrocketing and excessive fear when it is falling both force them to make bad decisions.

A brand new investor or a low coiner doesn't need to take a break in his bitcoin investment when he hasn't reached his bitcoin target. If you have your discretionary income and choose not to buy bitcoin at a particular time because the price is high means you are timing the market and that will slow down your accumulation pace. Ongoingly, accumulation of bitcoin is the best because it will increase your bitcoin stash faster and you will reach your bitcoin target quicker.

The only time an investor who's still in his accumulation stage should not buy bitcoin is if he doesn't have a discretionary income at that moment due to increase in monthly expenses apart from that, nothing should stop you from your regular weekly DCA purchase with consistent and persistent overtime.

Of course, the longer a person had been investing in bitcoin and the larger his bitcoin stash starts to become relative to his income, he might become less aggressive in his bitcoin buys and perhaps try to time around BTC price moves.

I am not going to proclaim to know exactly when guys might start to change their level of bitcoin buying aggressiveness, yet it seems that the longer that a guy invests into bitcoin, his individual particulars (and how they are changing in light of the bitcoin stash that he had already accumulated) will help to inform him about whether and/or how he might adjust his bitcoin accumulation practices.

I like to think in terms of getting 1 or 2 years of his expenses invested into bitcoin, yet if bitcoin had gone up or down in price, the value of the bitcoin have had deviated quite a bit from the value that he had put in, even though it could well still end up being that the guy's income situation might not have had changed as much as the value of his bitcoin holdings.

One of the reasons that i like to suggest that guys gravitate towards valuating their bitcoin based on the 200-WMA rather than based on spot prices is because using the 200-WMA instead of bitcoin's spot price might help to come up with more realistic valuations for a person who is largely planning to continue to hold his bitcoin and perhaps even continue to accumulate rather than selling large portions of his holdings.. even though surely whenever we buy and sell bitcoin we are doing so at spot prices rather than 200-WMA prices.. 200-WMA prices can tend to somewhat identify bitcoin bottom prices and surely tend to be way less erratic as compared with BTC spot prices.

[ultrloa]

Not every bitcoin holder today knew bitcoin was going to be this successful when they started holding,

Most of the holders of bitcoin that has been holding for the past decade have always known that bitcoin will be this big, because they already understood the growth potential in bitcoin when majority of the people were not seeing the potential in bitcoin. It is very rare to see someone hold on to something for a long time when they are not convinced that there’s potential in it and it’s worth keeping. Those that had doubts about bitcoin’s growth are not holders today.

You have wrong ideas about people.  There might be some folks who believe that they know the future, but they are just getting lucky if they think with those kinds of fantasies.  They are likely to be wrong a lot in life and even create too high of expectations if they believe that they know the future with any level of precision.

I would imagine that and overwhelming majority of reasonable folks think in terms of probabilities about the future, even if they might not realize that is what they are doing. Sure, they may assign overly high or overly low probabilities to certain events, yet if they were to be pushed on the subject, not too many folks would actually proclaim that they know the future with any level of meaningful precision.

No one can actually have precise or accurate prediction on what's going to happen in future. People rely on probabilities and sometimes think that what they believe is true and it will happen, but in reality everything is so unpredictable, since positive and negative possibilities might gonna occur.

But its good to weight the chances rather claiming those uncertain situations. Also believing on what you know sometimes can make people look forward then expect something unrealistic.

What I think people needed if they are going to invest on Bitcoin for long term is discipline, patience, long term mindset and risk awareness. Also we add up that they are willing to continuously learn more about Bitcoin if they have this maybe they can erase those thoughts setting up wrong expectations and will tried to do best approach with their Bitcoin investment.

[whiteblue]

Aggressive Buying typically usually Investors get money more from their passive income, Increasing their disposable income, which can be used to aggressively purchase Bitcoin. companies Typically offer annual Bonuses, and employees can purchase larger amounts of bitcoin than they would through their regular Weekly DCA.

But for me, The key is managing weekly Purchases smoothly, which is enough to Motivate us to continue accumulating bitcoin. Because life expenses are unpredictable, Sometimes requiring large sums of Money and sometimes not, Careful adjustments are essential to ensure a smooth Investment journey. It's truly Unfortunate for those who make investment mistakes due to poor Financial management.

[samadam007]

success is not a guarantee in bitcoin investment. realistically in as much as bitcoin have the potential of generating high returns  theres also a potential of losing the investment even in the long run because of its high volatility and is very speculative which means no one can predict what the price will be exactly so you saying that investing with the dca method you will definitely be successful could be misleading in the sense that it is not a guaranteed. we need to be well aware of the potentials of bitcoin investment.The dca is just one of the purchasing strategy in bitcoin investment as  what the dca does is to mitigate or help us in reducing the impact of the risk of loss associated with bitcoins high volatility. even though some investors achieved some level of success in bitcoin investment, but it is not a guarantee as you dont judge it with past performance as past performance does not also guarantee future performance.

It is a saying that nothing is guaranteed in Bitcoin and the reason is price fluctuations as a result of volatilty but I won't want to duel on that phrase all the time, Bitcoin has been in a existence for some years now and the long-term effect has always been their if anyone try to sound very convinced that the his future and that of other bitcon investors that has been investing will be rewarded by this same investment then so be it, such persons shouldn't be discouraged, after all they have their reasons for taking such stands, how do we know a good investment? Is it not an investment that has been tested and trusted, Bitcoin has given us reason to believe that it is actaully an investment that has a long-term prospect but we should not forget to invest with our discreationary income that's very important.

You sound like someone who is afraid of trusting Bitcoin to become great in the future, I understand that you know that Bitcoin has been in existence for years now and has a good vision, but I still see your statement like someone who is trying to play save in his Bitcoin investment, well I understand that a lot of people are still scared of Bitcoin investment and they find it difficult to invest with their whole heart they still want to play safe and that is one of the reason why some people till date have not reached a good number of accumulation in their Bitcoin investment.
One of the reason why I choose to invest in Bitcoin is because I believe that Bitcoin will keep growing and I will benefit from it if I keep accumulating and holding bitcoin for years I don't have any reason to douo Bitcoin and because of that I don't play safe when investing in Bitcoin I invest all my discretionary income in Bitcoin and if I'm saving some money I'm just reserving it for Bitcoin investment too because I have a strong backup fund's already.

Believing in Bitcoin doesn’t mean you should put all your money in it at once. Bitcoin price can fall harder sometimes. So it’s better to buy steadily and keep some money aside incase of emergencies and also to buy more when the price drops.

[Byebyebtc]

success is not a guarantee in bitcoin investment. realistically in as much as bitcoin have the potential of generating high returns  theres also a potential of losing the investment even in the long run because of its high volatility and is very speculative which means no one can predict what the price will be exactly so you saying that investing with the dca method you will definitely be successful could be misleading in the sense that it is not a guaranteed. we need to be well aware of the potentials of bitcoin investment.The dca is just one of the purchasing strategy in bitcoin investment as  what the dca does is to mitigate or help us in reducing the impact of the risk of loss associated with bitcoins high volatility. even though some investors achieved some level of success in bitcoin investment, but it is not a guarantee as you dont judge it with past performance as past performance does not also guarantee future performance.

Having the DCA method is not a guarantee of success in Bitcoin investment. What brings good results when using this strategy to invest in Bitcoin is good decision-making to accumulate Bitcoin and to hodl, as well as the discipline to stick to every decision. However, if your decisions can't remain the same, then it is very possible to end up with a failed investment.

The DCA strategy is a method that plays a role in investment, and every investor also has a role to play, which is to make good decisions and to be disciplined. If you are unable to fulfill your personal role, then the strategy you are applying will never lead to a successful investment. Success in investing depends on the individual first, and the strategy is just a way of making it easier.

Yes good decision making is one of the good attributes of a successful investment, and one of those decisions is deciding the most decent and friendly strategy for your personality, 

But one thing I have come to understand since when I started investing is that, I try to learn more from other people mistakes, and with that I do not have to stress my self to figure out which decision is right or wrong,
You hear of good news and you also hear of bad news In a particular angle of investment that makes your decision making shorter and correct.

The reason why I decided to speak of it this way, is because of report of new investors making mistakes due to bad decision making, but if you put effort to learn from others mistakes, instead of experimenting one thing after another it will save you time and losses

And  this forum has made it easy, to study out real experiences of different investors, that we can learn from.

[DubemIfedigbo001]

~

Believing in Bitcoin doesn’t mean you should put all your money in it at once. Bitcoin price can fall harder sometimes. So it’s better to buy steadily and keep some money aside incase of emergencies and also to buy more when the price drops.

You're not supposed to buy Bitcoin with all your money, you're supposed to buy it from your discretionary income which is money remaining after you must have accounted for your expenses and this isn't because of it's volatility or for any price fall concern, it's to enable you go long-term in it by using fund that you wouldn't be needing in a short while and such that your survival doesn't depend on.

From your discretionary income, split it into investing into Bitcoin, savings(which includes emergency fund) and discretionary consumption. It's better to be consistent in your purchases and building out backup funds simultaneously to shield your portfolio from being tampered in case of emergencies and other necessities that aren't part of your immediate expenses.

Most importantly, when using DCA, never go beyond your discretionary income to invest as that would be categorized as over aggressiveness and such may not be sustainable for long as you may use money meant for your expenses to invest and you'll put yourself under unnecessary pressure to continue buying which defeats the idea of DCA, since DCA allows you to buy from a place of comfort consistently for a long period of time.

[Dogedegen]

Guys will error in ways in which they are not sufficiently comfortable in largely ignoring their investment (and/or continuing to add to it), so they neither want to continue to add to it, but they start to consider doing the opposite.. .which would be to sell rather than either continuing to buy or at least at minimum HODLing through the rough period.. which yeah, in bitcoin  rough periods can sometimes take many months or even years to really pass through them.. even right now, there are so many folks who had thought that sub $100ks prices were behind, so then it became traumatic to not only have sub $100k, but then sub $90k, sub $80k, sub $70k, and even having a so far brief bounce below $60k.. and the length of time seems outrageous and even causes some guys to conside that the BTC price is not going to return to previous ATHs, so they get depressed by such ongoing and frustrating negative BTC price performance instead of continuing to buy and/or at least hold through these periods if there is not enough money to continue to buy bitcoin.

Ignoring your investment is the best thing that you can do with Bitcoin if you are not continuing to add it I would say. This avoids any problems that may come from FUD or short term price manipulations, global events and things like that. This is how investments used to be at least those that are long term oriented. I mean I have some stock ownership, not that much but I do, and sometimes life speeds up that I do not even take a single look for many months and on one occasion I think it was even almost a full year. Sure we can set up some alerts for catastrophic news, but I believe that viewing the value of our investments that are long oriented tends to do as more harm the more often we do it. It makes up impatient, thinking, wondering, debating, doubting, when most often it was the best just to leave it alone and let time compound the value.

It can be quite surprising how much normies do not know about bitcoin, and even how much they seem to be assuming that they know about bitcoin, when they probably have not spent enough time with bitcoin.

Today, I ran into a friend from my youth, and it seems to me that I had been telling him about bitcoin for 10 years or more, and so it seems that every time that I run into him in recent times, perhaps once or twice a year, he wants to get caught up in all kinds of talk about politics.. and today, as I was talking to him about politics or whatever, I mentioned something about bitcoin being a good place for us to help ourselves and to empower ourselves, and he laughed so much, and had this know it all tone asking me if I was still into that, and acting as if bitcoin was clearly losing in recent times, and I probably should have had argued with him more, yet he was so closed minded and amazingly might have had been able to be rich as fuck if he had taken some modest bitcoin position rather than his ongoingly failing/refusing to take bitcoin seriously and even acting like he knows about bitcoin... when he clearly had a lot of misconceptions about bitcoin and even too much arrogance in the ways that he was laughing it off..

It is surprising and more so because they tend to act like that in your example, know it all tone when they basically don't know anything about it aside from some headlines or misinformation from some reddit or other platforms. Also what happens often during very bullish time is that everyone who knows nothing starts talking about it like your taxi man, or some people start appearing out of nowhere claiming to be Bitcoin or crypto experts for a decade or more and all sorts of things. I always find it odd at the lengths that people are willing to go to pretend to be something that they are not or more capable than they are, because they are hurting themselves the most in the end even if they think they don't. You can't commit bad actions without hurting yourself a lot in the process.

Even though historically blind buying of bitcoin has tended to work itself out, and to allow newbies to stack bitcoin, even though it could take them a cycle or two to get into a bitcoin stack position that starts to feel really comfortable, it can be difficult to ongoingly buy bitcoin for 1 or 2 cycles and to not get worked up about price. Of course, past performance does not always assure future results, so there is no guarantee that ongoing buying of bitcoin is going to end up paying off.

It can be difficult to not get worked up about the price but it depends on why you are entering Bitcoin. That lies the core difference. If you are thinking mostly about fiat terms, even long term terms besides short terms then you are much more susceptible to issues than someone who is doing it for financial freedom or sovereignty. I do not necessarily need Bitcoin to grow a lot, and it probably will I am not questioning that here I am making a different point, it just needs to fairly retain its value around my average entries. I am buying financial sovereignty and freedom, the fiat price appreciation is just an added bonus!

Great? I did not mean to imply it is quite great, it may be my mistake but you can't say that it is not a positive progression. You could only say that if you wanted to say that even fewer people know and even fewer people understand Bitcoin than before, but that is not correct?

I frequently argue that the level of maturity and awareness of bitcoin is not even close as large as what many folks presume it to be, even though surely awareness of bitcoin is growing amongst some cohorts.

And you should, the name has been going around but the understanding is limited and often overestimated. I sometimes see like surveys look at the number of users based on active registrations on Coinbase or people who at any point ever held any Bitcoin but that is ridiculous. Most of these do not have any understanding of Bitcoin, they are just people who for some reason bought Bitcoin at some specific time maybe they heard from a friend, maybe they saw something on TV and such. Worse even those young ones that prefer and advertise ETFs and their paper Bitcoin, those do not understand Bitcoin at all.

Sure overall it is likely growing... gradually and then suddenly... yet I still am going to assert that we have to be careful in our presumptions that everyone knows what bitcoin is, even if they know the word bitcoin.  There are numerous folks who are know it alls about bitcoin, yet they have little to no clue about bitcoin, even though they have ideas about bitcoin in their head.

I agree with this.

It is easy to get sucked into the wrong perception  that "I am too late," and even though they would likely be better off to just suck it up and start buying bitcoin for 4-8 years or longer, instead they continue to just stick with the "I'm too late" perception.

That can happen but people are not clear with what that means or what they mean with that. Is someone late to make a 100 000 or 1 million times return on Bitcoin? Yeah, but if we think about things like that then anyone who has not invested in any existing thing has already been too late but look at the performance in companies of Nvidia in recent years reaching trillions of valuation. Those that thought they were late when it was $100 billion or more all turned out to be very wrong. I bring this as an example not to be confused as an endorsement or anything, there are many such examples. Besides such returns which are only possible when the market cap is very low, one is never too late for Bitcoin.

[Grace333]

DCA works well because volatility can actually be an advantage. When the price drops, your fixed amount buys more Bitcoin, and when it rises, you already have some accumulated. This helps balance your position over time and makes investing less stressful, especially for beginners who want to avoid trying to time the market.

However, DCA is not a complete solution on its own. It only works well with consistency and discipline, using money you can afford to set aside. Lump sum investing can perform better in some cases, but many people are not comfortable with the risk. This is why DCA stands out as a simple and flexible approach that suits most people.

Basing your aggressive buys on Bitcoin price movement isn't really a smart thing to do as an investor and that's coz doing so could very well pull you into a timing mindset, which could very well slow down the pace of your steady accumulation... The truth is that we cannot really tell the price direction in every situation, and so what seem like a dip today may turn out lower the following day you could very well keep on missing opportunities all because of you waiting for the right moment, and so it would seem much more better that folks change/or adjust their level of aggressiveness based on the intensity or availability of discretionary income....

If we just try to buy with this kind of expectation, that is, if we just see price fluctuations and suddenly adopt an aggressive investment strategy, then it will definitely not be a very good strategy for us. In trying to find the perfect dip price, many people end up staying out of the investment, thus missing the opportunity to build wealth continuously. yes It is good to buy when the price drops, but it is the biggest mistake to adopt this dip as the main strategy for accumulating Bitcoin. We must first ensure that our investment through continuous DCA is ongoing and this is our main investment strategy. The reality is that the market trend is always uncertain, and accepting this uncertainty is an important part of investing, and therefore maintaining the continuity of investment by prioritizing one's financial capacity, income continuity and long-term goals rather than reacting to every change in market volatility is the hallmark of a real long term investor.

There is no need for any person who has made up their mind to invest in bitcoin for long teem to start complicating things for themselves. If they have Presavings before they make up their mInd to invest, they can frontload and take an aggressive approach especially now that bitcoin is still at the dip but when they exhaust that wide discretionary, they can start using the consistent DCA method to accumulate until they get to the overaccumulation phase and keep holding for as long as they want, even if it means holding to pass some to their next generation.
Though we sometimes say that aggressive approach might seem a bit too overwhelming for a newbie but if you're there to guide the person from over doing it, I don't think it would be too much for them to handle,  there is nothing easier compared to when you have a mentor beside you. But if you're not that available it's best to put them on a fixed DCA strategy and let them get comfortable with it for a while before they become a bit aggressive and frontload their investment with their outstanding discretionary funds.

[AuchanX]

DCA works well because volatility can actually be an advantage. When the price drops, your fixed amount buys more Bitcoin, and when it rises, you already have some accumulated. This helps balance your position over time and makes investing less stressful, especially for beginners who want to avoid trying to time the market.

However, DCA is not a complete solution on its own. It only works well with consistency and discipline, using money you can afford to set aside. Lump sum investing can perform better in some cases, but many people are not comfortable with the risk. This is why DCA stands out as a simple and flexible approach that suits most people.

Basing your aggressive buys on Bitcoin price movement isn't really a smart thing to do as an investor and that's coz doing so could very well pull you into a timing mindset, which could very well slow down the pace of your steady accumulation... The truth is that we cannot really tell the price direction in every situation, and so what seem like a dip today may turn out lower the following day you could very well keep on missing opportunities all because of you waiting for the right moment, and so it would seem much more better that folks change/or adjust their level of aggressiveness based on the intensity or availability of discretionary income....

If we just try to buy with this kind of expectation, that is, if we just see price fluctuations and suddenly adopt an aggressive investment strategy, then it will definitely not be a very good strategy for us. In trying to find the perfect dip price, many people end up staying out of the investment, thus missing the opportunity to build wealth continuously. yes It is good to buy when the price drops, but it is the biggest mistake to adopt this dip as the main strategy for accumulating Bitcoin. We must first ensure that our investment through continuous DCA is ongoing and this is our main investment strategy. The reality is that the market trend is always uncertain, and accepting this uncertainty is an important part of investing, and therefore maintaining the continuity of investment by prioritizing one's financial capacity, income continuity and long-term goals rather than reacting to every change in market volatility is the hallmark of a real long term investor.

There is no need for any person who has made up their mind to invest in bitcoin for long teem to start complicating things for themselves. If they have Presavings before they make up their mInd to invest, they can frontload and take an aggressive approach especially now that bitcoin is still at the dip but when they exhaust that wide discretionary, they can start using the consistent DCA method to accumulate until they get to the overaccumulation phase and keep holding for as long as they want, even if it means holding to pass some to their next generation.

In long-term investing, it is not a matter of being aggressive by pouring a large sum in the beginning, especially considering that the price is now DIP..... It actually depends on your discretionary funds, cash flow and backup funds. Also, psychological comfort is involved. In terms of investing, aggressive means how much of your discretionary money you are investing in Bitcoin,,, it is not that you suddenly threw a large sum because the price is falling.

[JayJuanGee]

Aggressive Buying typically usually Investors get money more from their passive income, Increasing their disposable income, which can be used to aggressively purchase Bitcoin. companies Typically offer annual Bonuses, and employees can purchase larger amounts of bitcoin than they would through their regular Weekly DCA.

If a person is getting bonuses at work, that is not passive income.  That is income that is related to their work.

Passive income would generally refer to investment income, and people do not generally cash out of passive income in order to invest, even though passive income could supplement other income that they might get  - yet the whole topic of how individuals might utilize passive income is not really either within the scope of this thread or even a common scenario that normal people might be facing in terms of how they might build up their bitcoin investment over time.. I think that the more common scenarios related to building up a bitcoin investment relates to folks building up from their discretionary income, so in that regard DCA will tend to be quite applicable.  Sure, there also might be some guys who come to bitcoin and they have other investments that they might reallocate into bitcoin and surely there can be a lot of folks who get bonuses at work or otherwise come accross extra income that will give them extra options to buy into bitcoin with that extra money that had come in.

In regards to aggressive versus whimpy investing, largely, I like to refer to aggressive versus whimpy within the context of the discretionary funds that are coming in, so your level of aggressiveness does not go up merely because your discretionary funds had gone up.  If your discretionary funds go up you have more options to invest more into bitcoin because you have more available money, yet that is not the way that I tend to use the concept of aggressive versus whimpy.  

A couple of hours ago, I just did another post on the same topic, so here it is:

[edited out]

If you want to buy aggressively then you should try to improve your discretionary income it’s a simple as that.

Buying aggressively or not is a measurement within the level of discretionary income that a person has.  If you increase the discretionary income you increase the pie upon which you can draw from but you do not necessarily increase the aggressiveness level.

Let's say that you have three guys who have $150 per week of discretionary funds available.

Guy 1 ($150 budget) (middle):  Invests $50, saves $50 and discretionarily consumes $50

Guy 2 ($150 budget) (whimpy):  Invests $10, saves $70 and discretionarily consumes $70

Guy 3 ($150 budget) (aggressive):  Invests $110, saves $20 and discretionarily consumes $20
 
Which one is more aggressive in his bitcoin investment?  Guy 3 of course.  What if they increased their discretionary income?  Let's say their discretionary income doubled to $300 per week.. .Yet if they merely doubled each of the categories they are all investing more, their level of aggressiveness would not have had changed.

Guy 1 ($300 budget) (middle):  Invests $100, saves $100 and discretionarily consumes $100

Guy 2 ($300 budget) (whimpy):  Invests $20, saves $140 and discretionarily consumes $140

Guy 3 ($300 budget) (aggressive):  Invests $220, saves $40 and discretionarily consumes $40

The point  that I am making is that the mere fact that the discretionary income went up, that did not cause them to be more aggressive if they merely kept the same percentage within the discretionary funds.  Level of aggressiveness or not is measured relatively within the discretionary income and how much a person chooses to invest into bitcoin based on what funds are available to him within those available funds.

But for me, The key is managing weekly Purchases smoothly, which is enough to Motivate us to continue accumulating bitcoin. Because life expenses are unpredictable, Sometimes requiring large sums of Money and sometimes not, Careful adjustments are essential to ensure a smooth Investment journey. It's truly Unfortunate for those who make investment mistakes due to poor Financial management.

I tend to like weekly purchases, especially during early bitcoin accumulation phases including the first 1 whole cycle or perhaps even a couple of cycles if a guy still might consider himself to be still in his early bitcoin accumulation stages.

You have been registered here about as long as me, whiteblue (nearly 12 years), so it comes off as a bit strange if you had not already gotten through your early accumulation phases... and for sure, I consider that guys getting started accumulating bitcoin in more recent times are likely going to have to take more time to really get through their early accumulation stage as compared with guys who came to bitcoin much earlier.  In fact prior to 2020, I used to tell guys that it is o.k. to invest $10 per week and to aim for 1% to 10% of their income into bitcoin (and perhaps 1% to 10% of their investment portfolio in bitcoin). In 2020, I started to recommend $100 per week invested in bitcoin and also 5% to 25% of their income/investment portfolio in bitcoin.  So since 2020, I have upped my recommendation numbers - even though I also don't take any responsibility in regards to what guys choose to do or not.. Guys have to live with the consequences of their actions (and/or their inactions).

[edited out]

Believing in Bitcoin doesn’t mean you should put all your money in it at once. Bitcoin price can fall harder sometimes. So it’s better to buy steadily and keep some money aside incase of emergencies and also to buy more when if the price drops.

Fixed that for you.

Guys will error in ways in which they are not sufficiently comfortable in largely ignoring their investment (and/or continuing to add to it), so they neither want to continue to add to it, but they start to consider doing the opposite.. .which would be to sell rather than either continuing to buy or at least at minimum HODLing through the rough period.. which yeah, in bitcoin  rough periods can sometimes take many months or even years to really pass through them.. even right now, there are so many folks who had thought that sub $100ks prices were behind, so then it became traumatic to not only have sub $100k, but then sub $90k, sub $80k, sub $70k, and even having a so far brief bounce below $60k.. and the length of time seems outrageous and even causes some guys to conside that the BTC price is not going to return to previous ATHs, so they get depressed by such ongoing and frustrating negative BTC price performance instead of continuing to buy and/or at least hold through these periods if there is not enough money to continue to buy bitcoin.

Ignoring your investment is the best thing that you can do with Bitcoin if you are not continuing to add it I would say. This avoids any problems that may come from FUD or short term price manipulations, global events and things like that.

You might be right especially if you either have already established a decent position or you are largely just buying a regular amount on a weekly (or whatever period), so you could end up having quarterly or annual review.. and surely there can be guys who are quite busy in their regular life, so they don't have time to be looking too much at bitcoin, except maybe once ever couple of weeks.

I cannot say that I have been able to ignore bitcoin for the past 12.5-ish years.

This is how investments used to be at least those that are long term oriented. I mean I have some stock ownership, not that much but I do, and sometimes life speeds up that I do not even take a single look for many months and on one occasion I think it was even almost a full year.

I cannot disagree with your description of how many folks might invest into index funds and I had been doing those sort of things myself.. I recall one of my index fund investments, it had an option to be in various kinds of funds, and after a couple of years, when I looked at it, I noticed that I had made a mistake in terms of how I had ended up allocating within the funds, and I thought that I had been invested in a way that was different from how I was actually invested... which caused me quite a bit of frustration when I discovered my mistake.  

Sure we can set up some alerts for catastrophic news, but I believe that viewing the value of our investments that are long oriented tends to do as more harm the more often we do it. It makes up impatient, thinking, wondering, debating, doubting, when most often it was the best just to leave it alone and let time compound the value.

Well it is one thing looking at it from time to time and another thing allowing changes in the market (or whatever) to affect what you are doing.  Over the whole of bitcoin's history, it has been quite volatile and violent, so even though it sounds good in theory to just ignore it, ignoring it might not completely be the best approach either, and so sure, guys may have to figure out their own time management balances in regards to how much interaction that they believe that they need to do.. and surely investing tends be way less necessary to take actions as compared with trading, and there is no need to go down the trading comparison route in regards to how much attention might be needed.

It can be quite surprising how much normies do not know about bitcoin, and even how much they seem to be assuming that they know about bitcoin, when they probably have not spent enough time with bitcoin.

Today, I ran into a friend from my youth, and it seems to me that I had been telling him about bitcoin for 10 years or more, and so it seems that every time that I run into him in recent times, perhaps once or twice a year, he wants to get caught up in all kinds of talk about politics.. and today, as I was talking to him about politics or whatever, I mentioned something about bitcoin being a good place for us to help ourselves and to empower ourselves, and he laughed so much, and had this know it all tone asking me if I was still into that, and acting as if bitcoin was clearly losing in recent times, and I probably should have had argued with him more, yet he was so closed minded and amazingly might have had been able to be rich as fuck if he had taken some modest bitcoin position rather than his ongoingly failing/refusing to take bitcoin seriously and even acting like he knows about bitcoin... when he clearly had a lot of misconceptions about bitcoin and even too much arrogance in the ways that he was laughing it off..

It is surprising and more so because they tend to act like that in your example, know it all tone when they basically don't know anything about it aside from some headlines or misinformation from some reddit or other platforms.

Upon further reflection, I think my friend was so pissed off about bitcoin this time as compared with other conversations that I had with him about it a few years ago is because of Trump's involvement in bitcoin, and anything related to Trump seems to cause the guy to go into some very angry places. .and so there might ONLY be so much that I could talk with him about bitcoin when he is getting so emotional about it, and some of his emotions seem to even have some legitimate grounds.. and even when he made some kind of a snide remark to me about my "still being in that," he was seeming to imply that things that Trump and associates were doing with bitcoin and various related "crypto" matters related to my own bitcoin investment thesis, even though my own involvement in bitcoin seems to have had predated Trump and/or his kid's grifting in regards to bitcoin by perhaps more than 10 years.

Also what happens often during very bullish time is that everyone who knows nothing starts talking about it like your taxi man, or some people start appearing out of nowhere claiming to be Bitcoin or crypto experts for a decade or more and all sorts of things. I always find it odd at the lengths that people are willing to go to pretend to be something that they are not or more capable than they are, because they are hurting themselves the most in the end even if they think they don't. You can't commit bad actions without hurting yourself a lot in the process.

You might be pointing out some the reasons why it becomes difficult to completely ignore bitcoin when the ups and downs get into the news.. and yeah, during the down periods there can be some seeming apathy going on too.. .and during the up periods, the discussion can be quite extreme in regards how many folks are claiming to know about it... but if you dig into the details they might not even know the difference between bitcoin and shitcoins or they might not know the difference between actual bitcoin and paper bitcoin.  Even bitcoiners had been getting drawn into bitcoin paper products in recent times.

Even though historically blind buying of bitcoin has tended to work itself out, and to allow newbies to stack bitcoin, even though it could take them a cycle or two to get into a bitcoin stack position that starts to feel really comfortable, it can be difficult to ongoingly buy bitcoin for 1 or 2 cycles and to not get worked up about price. Of course, past performance does not always assure future results, so there is no guarantee that ongoing buying of bitcoin is going to end up paying off.

It can be difficult to not get worked up about the price but it depends on why you are entering Bitcoin. That lies the core difference. If you are thinking mostly about fiat terms, even long term terms besides short terms then you are much more susceptible to issues than someone who is doing it for financial freedom or sovereignty. I do not necessarily need Bitcoin to grow a lot, and it probably will I am not questioning that here I am making a different point, it just needs to fairly retain its value around my average entries. I am buying financial sovereignty and freedom, the fiat price appreciation is just an added bonus!

I mostly feel the same way, and historically, I had mentioned that I had only expected around a 6% CAGR from bitcoin since 2013, yet it ended up returning something like a 50% to 60% CAGR over that timeframe, so there has been quite a bit of bonus price appreciation over the years, which also might end up spoiling some of us who have been on the beneficiary side of BTC price appreciation over the years.

Another thing is with any investment, we have a hard time to know if it will perform equal to or better or even worse than other places in which we can put our value, and surely there is both nominal returns and there are real returns, and sometimes we can get distracted into nominal returns and not realize how much the dollar (or other fiat) is being debased along the way, so in some of our investments we might not realize if we are actually making money from them if they are barely keeping up with the debasement of the dollar.

Great? I did not mean to imply it is quite great, it may be my mistake but you can't say that it is not a positive progression. You could only say that if you wanted to say that even fewer people know and even fewer people understand Bitcoin than before, but that is not correct?

I frequently argue that the level of maturity and awareness of bitcoin is not even close as large as what many folks presume it to be, even though surely awareness of bitcoin is growing amongst some cohorts.

And you should, the name has been going around but the understanding is limited and often overestimated. I sometimes see like surveys look at the number of users based on active registrations on Coinbase or people who at any point ever held any Bitcoin but that is ridiculous. Most of these do not have any understanding of Bitcoin, they are just people who for some reason bought Bitcoin at some specific time maybe they heard from a friend, maybe they saw something on TV and such. Worse even those young ones that prefer and advertise ETFs and their paper Bitcoin, those do not understand Bitcoin at all.

Yep.. adoption levels are frequently spun to make it seem as if bitcoin adoption levels are higher than they are, and normies and newbies to bitcoin get mislead by those kinds of pieces of misinformation... to the extent that they are even relevant, and yeah, with paper bitcoin products, there also can be quite a few questions in regards are there even close to enough bitcoin to cover the claims to bitcoin ownership (or the shares that are supposedly backed by actual bitcoin.... yeah right   ).

Sure overall it is likely growing... gradually and then suddenly... yet I still am going to assert that we have to be careful in our presumptions that everyone knows what bitcoin is, even if they know the word bitcoin.  There are numerous folks who are know it alls about bitcoin, yet they have little to no clue about bitcoin, even though they have ideas about bitcoin in their head.

I agree with this.

It is easy to get sucked into the wrong perception  that "I am too late," and even though they would likely be better off to just suck it up and start buying bitcoin for 4-8 years or longer, instead they continue to just stick with the "I'm too late" perception.

That can happen but people are not clear with what that means or what they mean with that. Is someone late to make a 100 000 or 1 million times return on Bitcoin? Yeah, but if we think about things like that then anyone who has not invested in any existing thing has already been too late but look at the performance in companies of Nvidia in recent years reaching trillions of valuation. Those that thought they were late when it was $100 billion or more all turned out to be very wrong. I bring this as an example not to be confused as an endorsement or anything, there are many such examples. Besides such returns which are only possible when the market cap is very low, one is never too late for Bitcoin.

Yep.. some folks get lured into other investments (shitcoins or penny stocks) because they speculate that the upside in bitcoin is not enough.. and surely similar ideas about bitcoin also existed during the 2017 price uprising period.  It was interesting to live through (even though frustrating) with the shitcoin pumpers (bitcoin naysayers) and the bitcoin price still continuing to go up during that time - as if 78x from $250 in late 2015 to $19,666 in late 2017 was not enough.

[The Founding Titan]

Not every bitcoin holder today knew bitcoin was going to be this successful when they started holding,

Most of the holders of bitcoin that has been holding for the past decade have always known that bitcoin will be this big, because they already understood the growth potential in bitcoin when majority of the people were not seeing the potential in bitcoin. It is very rare to see someone hold on to something for a long time when they are not convinced that there’s potential in it and it’s worth keeping. Those that had doubts about bitcoin’s growth are not holders today.

Bitcoin was new at the time, people had hope, they know about bitcoin's potential but to say that they knew bitcoin was going to perform as good as it did would be taking it too far, it's easy to make such assumptions now because we've seen bitcoin grow to this point and because of that we can make such claims because we have the gift of hindsight, we've already lived through bitcoin growing from where it was to where it currently is.
Some people who accumulated bitcoin then just did not want to deal with the fiat, especially for people who were involved in intercontinental trades, at the time regulations and taxes would have cut down your money to a reasonable point, bitcoin provided a means for these financial institutions to not be able to hinder commerce, yea bitcoin might have performed incredibly which was also a target, that's why it's total quantity was limited from the start to create scarcity but no one knew for certain that any of whats happening today would happen then.

[edited out]

Investing with the mindset that profit will definitely come is what's wrong, it's better for investors to know essentially newbies that success isn't guaranteed, bitcoin has performed well over the past 15 years and we are hoping that it's keeps performing well in the future but that's still doesn't mean we should ignore the fact that anything can happen and bitcoin can possibly from tomorrow not appreciate in value anymore, it could end enter a downtrend and start deprecating in value, hopefully this doesn't happen but it's better to bear in mind that it is a possibility, that's why we invest with our discretionary income so that if for any reason bitcoin underperforms we won't lose everything we have to it.

Surely negative bitcoin scenarios exist so we don't want to assign them zero value, yet we also don't want to dwell on such negative scenarios, otherwise we might sound like we either do not understand bitcoin or that we are overly assigning unlikely scenarios to our presentation of bitcoin, which seems to be what trolls, fence sitters, shitcoin pumpers and/or bitcoin naysayers like to focus upon.

No bitcoin holders wants bitcoin to underperform, at least not to the point of it never recovering again so while no one wants to dwell on it a smart investor will keep it somewhere at the back of their mind that it is a possibility.
Bitcoin through history has proven to be an asset worth investing in and by all means we are all hoping for it to continue this way and chances are very high that it's going to keep being successful but it's better to know that it's not 100% certain, especially for newbies so they don't end up making the assumption that success is certain and going beyond their means in order to acquire more bitcoin, they need to know to limit their accumulation to their discretionary income and not go beyond that.

[cyberninja2]

Yes, the DCA strategy is the only one that can be done very well by people of any level, it is not only suitable for the rich but for all kinds of people, but to market it properly, we first need to understand DCA well, and understand how to operate it, if you are mentally prepared, then you can start it with any amount of money. But you need to understand that this is a long-term strategy, here if you expect short-term success through this strategy, then you will never get anything good. Instead of this kind of wrong thinking, you must decide to hold it for the long term according to its fundamentals.

And this is why in my opinion more people are using the DCA strategy to buy Bitcoin especially since this method is very easy and can be implemented by all groups both those with limited finances and those who are strong enough to have the finances or capital to start investing in Bitcoin. But I also agree that what you said is something that must be done by all groups when they want to start investing because if you have capital but do not have a strong mentality in starting it is the same as not being able to provide an effect that makes the strategy we want to do not run well. This may be caused by several factors that can change the thoughts that the person has so that in the end the belief to start will no longer run according to expectations and thoughts before starting.

[ZeroVinsonN]

The technology of bitcoin fits into how bitcoin became valuable as a paradigm shifting technology that allows that digital communication and storage of both information and value (meaning it cannot be duplicated even though it is in digital form). Even though there might not be any needs to understand how the technology works, the technology is part of the essential building blocks that contributes towards bitcoin having meaningful and/or society-wide value for bitcoin holders and for society as a whole, even if some folks are not holding bitcoin or otherwise using it..

This is very true, the technological design of bitcoin itself might not directly create any form of profit for investors but it has helped to create conditions like scarcity, security and decentralization and these are the properties that make bitcoin suitable as a long term asset .

And these conditions are exactly why bitcoin works as a long term asset, so while it might not be directly the technology itself is responsible for bitcoin being an asset worth investing in.

Yes, the DCA strategy is the only one that can be done very well by people of any level, it is not only suitable for the rich but for all kinds of people, but to market it properly, we first need to understand DCA well, and understand how to operate it, if you are mentally prepared, then you can start it with any amount of money. But you need to understand that this is a long-term strategy, here if you expect short-term success through this strategy, then you will never get anything good. Instead of this kind of wrong thinking, you must decide to hold it for the long term according to its fundamentals.

And this is why in my opinion more people are using the DCA strategy to buy Bitcoin especially since this method is very easy and can be implemented by all groups both those with limited finances and those who are strong enough to have the finances or capital to start investing in Bitcoin. But I also agree that what you said is something that must be done by all groups when they want to start investing because if you have capital but do not have a strong mentality in starting it is the same as not being able to provide an effect that makes the strategy we want to do not run well. This may be caused by several factors that can change the thoughts that the person has so that in the end the belief to start will no longer run according to expectations and thoughts before starting.

There are situations where people are earning but are not able to invest in bitcoin even with the DCA because beyond being rich or poor what actually determines a person's capability to accumulate bitcoin is their discretionary income, without this it becomes impossible to invest in bitcoin, and yes people can be earning and not have any discretionary income from it, there are people who are working but are still living off on credits, some are basically feeding from hand to mouth, surviving on what the can hustle up at the end of the day, so while we might want to consider a person's financial state as a factor on whether or not they can accumulate bitcoin, what they actually need to be able to accumulate bitcoin is their discretionary income, if a person cannot generate discretionary income they cannot accumulate bitcoin even with the DCA.

[alankasman]

And, don't get me wrong. I tend to not be overly concerned about level of "paper profits" since one of the more important measures in the longer run is likely going to revolve around how many bitcoin a guy had been able to accumulate rather than the extent to which his BTC holdings happen to be in profits or not... even though we might not really want to start to deploy any of the forms of sustainable withdrawal - either price-based or time-based in the event that the BTC holdings are not in a sufficient level of profits.

So, what we are most concerned about is how we can survive our long-term investments without disruption. We must consider how to make it easier for each of us regardless of our long-term investments.

Of course in my opinion before doing something like that it would be better for us to prepare everything related to the investment we are making so that it is not disturbed because the time we have set whether it is 5-8 years is certainly not a short time so we need to discuss this so that for people who have the intention of investing with that time it is better to prepare for what should make us always have both the main needs in daily life with the aim of preventing our investment from decreasing and in my opinion the funds that are saved must be fully owned by us because waiting for the time period that we have set is something that is quite long not a short time so when you have experienced something like this, the right step for those who make investments is to have saved funds or emergency funds or even reserve funds as a form of way that we do to save us personally it should also be about what we have done with investments that will become our assets for our future as a whole because we own Bitcoin so we must take good care of it during the investment period that we have set.

[mehmetosman89]

Believing in Bitcoin doesn’t mean you should put all your money in it at once. Bitcoin price can fall harder sometimes. So it’s better to buy steadily and keep some money aside incase of emergencies and also to buy more when the price drops.

Everyone has a strategy for anything, especially when it comes to investing, such as buying Bitcoin for the long term. This means that anyone who dares to spend more money to buy Bitcoin for long-term investment is clearly doing so with careful consideration. Without preparation, perhaps no one would dare to buy Bitcoin, even if they strongly believe in it and only have a small amount of money. Therefore, such things must be truly based on a well-measured plan, preparation, and a specific strategy for implementing them.

[sotelorene]

Believing in Bitcoin doesn’t mean you should put all your money in it at once. Bitcoin price can fall harder sometimes. So it’s better to buy steadily and keep some money aside incase of emergencies and also to buy more when the price drops.

Everyone has a strategy for anything, especially when it comes to investing, such as buying Bitcoin for the long term. This means that anyone who dares to spend more money to buy Bitcoin for long-term investment is clearly doing so with careful consideration. Without preparation, perhaps no one would dare to buy Bitcoin, even if they strongly believe in it and only have a small amount of money. Therefore, such things must be truly based on a well-measured plan, preparation, and a specific strategy for implementing them.

Dude it Is not everyone that is investing in Bitcoin for long term has a clear mindset and intention to actually hold for long term, some are doing it with ulterior motives that is best known to them and guess what? They are actually doing themselves because when it will backlash they are the ones that will be affected and not you and I, that is why we should have clear intention in Bitcoin and also invest with what we can afford to let go.

[alankasman]

There are situations where people are earning but are not able to invest in bitcoin even with the DCA because beyond being rich or poor what actually determines a person's capability to accumulate bitcoin is their discretionary income, without this it becomes impossible to invest in bitcoin, and yes people can be earning and not have any discretionary income from it, there are people who are working but are still living off on credits, some are basically feeding from hand to mouth, surviving on what the can hustle up at the end of the day, so while we might want to consider a person's financial state as a factor on whether or not they can accumulate bitcoin, what they actually need to be able to accumulate bitcoin is their discretionary income, if a person cannot generate discretionary income they cannot accumulate bitcoin even with the DCA.

So what I need to ask is why do things like this still happen in all circles and this doesn't just mean rich or poor people but my question is more general and impartial to both groups?

Because there are also those who already understand or have the ability to invest but those people as you said have not yet started even though financially for them rich people only need to start and this is very different from people who are less well off and this will not be a problem for them not to start investing/accumulating Bitcoin but what confuses me is that for those who already understand both the knowledge ability and also other things of course regarding the accumulation of Bitcoin it is still protracted to invest in them they have already gone deep into globalization so that they will not experience risks when they have started accumulating Bitcoin investments.

[Futurexxx]

There are situations where people are earning but are not able to invest in bitcoin even with the DCA because beyond being rich or poor what actually determines a person's capability to accumulate bitcoin is their discretionary income, without this it becomes impossible to invest in bitcoin, and yes people can be earning and not have any discretionary income from it, there are people who are working but are still living off on credits, some are basically feeding from hand to mouth, surviving on what the can hustle up at the end of the day, so while we might want to consider a person's financial state as a factor on whether or not they can accumulate bitcoin, what they actually need to be able to accumulate bitcoin is their discretionary income, if a person cannot generate discretionary income they cannot accumulate bitcoin even with the DCA.

This is why I most times laugh at those that thinks that a stable income guarantees constant accumulation, but what they fail to understand is that a stable income doesn't guarantees anyone investing in Bitcoin and be successful at it because not everyone that have a stable income can figure out their discretionary income to invest with, so what is more important is the availability of your discretionary income, not a stable income as most folks here that lacks knowledge thought, because any investment made outside your discretionary income is more of gambling than investment, because it will only take just a matter of time before he temper with his investment, because he actually invested what he cannot do away with, at that particular moment.

[Bright0515]

No doubt that knowledge is good in an investment (mostly Bitcoin investment) but trust me, you don't need too much of the knowledge you seek before you can start investing into Bitcoin, you only need to know the basic things about it, which are how to buy Bitcoin, and how to store Bitcoin for long term, every other things can be added in the future as long as you keep on accumulating more Bitcoin through DCA strategy.
As a matter of fact, your comment sounds more like you are trying to tell us that knowledge can stop Bitcoin from going dip (which is not true ). However, even those set of investors that have solid knowledge about Bitcoin investment often sell sometimes if the market is crashing, one thing you need to know is that your knowledge can not stop you from making some certain choices, mostly if you are so emotional or you toke a very big risk by using the lump sum strategy (buying Bitcoin with a huge amount of money).

Knowledge may not stop the price from falling but with the right knowledge an investor can at least understand when to take a break or when it is important to control their emotions.

I am glad that you already know that knowledge can not stop the price of Bitcoin to fall or to dip, but on the other hand you are not getting the point on the second bold part of your comment. The reason why I I believe you are not getting it is because sometimes taking a break can lead to inconsistency, which means an investor can decide to take a break and from their they end up not investing all the time or even quit too early. There are still some investors that are so emotional and those set of investors, if they know a lot of things they might become so emotional and from their they quit because of fear.

Having faith in the technology does not mean that the investment will be profitable there is no guarantee.

That's Right and even for the fact that there's no guarantee to make profits from Bitcoin investment, I'm sure that investors will not be panic at all even with their knowledge and experience.