People that only buy Bitcoin ones and hold it for a very long period of time are those who already have a lot of money. They buy aggressively with a very huge amount of money they can afford from their discretionary income. But when someone who doesn't have a very huge amount of money buy ones it will be very little amount and it will take decades for the person to make a good amount of profit from it. Imagine when someone buys Bitcoin with just $100 and hold for 10 years without adding more to it, even though Bitcoin reaches $200,000k in the future the profits will be very small compared to those who used huge amount of money to buy and hold.
I'm not trying to say it's wrong for an investor to buy Bitcoin with a small amount of money and hold for long term, what I'm only saying is that they won't make reasonable amount of profit from it compared to an investor who bought Bitcoin with a very huge amount of money.
You are not correct; you are trying to say that people who invest the little they can consistently don't have the benefit of making better profits compared to those who invest large amounts of money at one time. This is not true. For those who earn low and can only afford to invest the little they can, they can still accumulate a good amount of Bitcoin consistently and have a strong chance of making a good profit by holding. The only thing that can prevent one from achieving better profits is a lack of seriousness about the investment.
If you are accumulating Bitcoin and being consistent, no matter how small the amount you buy, and you are willing to hold it,
you will definitely see a better profit. Making a good profit from Bitcoin investment is not just about how big the amount you invest is; small amounts that are constantly invested can also yield good profits in Bitcoin.
I agree with all of your points Rockstarguy, except for your suggestion that profits are guaranteed in bitcoin, and profits are not guaranteed, even if we do everything correct.
Another thing is that a guy who ongoingly, persistently, consistently, regularly and perhaps even aggressively buys bitcoin, he may well have average costs per bitcoin that are higher than guys who are strategizing with their bitcoin buys, yet it seems to me, like you seem to be suggesting, that the guy who is more serious about bitcoin accumulation is likely to end up putting himself in a better position by ongoingly buying bitcoin as compared with the guy waiting around for dips that may or may not end up happening... and surely it can be difficult to compare after 8-ish years (2 cycles) of buying bitcoin if there might have had been better strategies, and surely in retrospect we can see the places that the bitcoin price went up, down and/or sideways, yet when we are in the middle of ongoing buying, we cannot really have a lot of confidence about the bitcoin's short-to-medium price directions, so we are likely way better off to just ongoingly accumulation and perhaps just figure out ways that we might be able to increase our discretionary funds by increasing our income and/or cutting our expenses and otherwise making sure that our cashflow management systems and practices are in a relatively strong and comfortable place based on our ongoing financial/psychological circumstances...so likely if we spend 8 years or more with reasonable and ongoing bitcoin buying (perhaps weekly), building and maintaining our back up funds and engaging in reasonable discretionary consumption, then we have pretty good odds of having had put ourself into a better place (financially and psychologically) by having had invested into bitcoin as compared with if we had not.
You are not correct; you are trying to say that people who invest the little they can consistently don't have the benefit of making better profits compared to those who invest large amounts of money at one time. This is not true. For those who earn low and can only afford to invest the little they can, they can still accumulate a good amount of Bitcoin consistently and have a strong chance of making a good profit by holding. The only thing that can prevent one from achieving better profits is a lack of seriousness about the investment.
This investment can be done by anyone so what I need to say is how can someone with a very limited income do it? This doesn't mean that those who invest little by little are wrong, but rather that they continue to do it. However they are simply stuck with what they have. This is certainly different from those who invest in a single amount and do it in various ways. For those who invest in large amounts they certainly have maximum sources of income so it's natural for them to do it that way.
The difference is that for those who do it little by little, the income they will get from the profits is definitely different from those who do it in large amounts so this is what makes a little difference in getting profits because each person who does it in different amounts or different ways so when there is a profit they will also have different results. And the most important thing for us now is that there is no need to say that what someone does is wrong because if they have the same source of income of course they will also do what someone does with the same amount and size.
You are correct that some guys have more discretionary funds than others, and some guys might even have periods of time in which they have access to lump sum amounts (based on resources they have or even other investments they have) and maybe some guys get work bonuses a couple times a year while other guys almost never receive any extra cash (such as a bonus), and within the confines of either of these two different guys, they can surely choose their level of aggressiveness, such as one extreme would be to invest whatever extra that they have into bitcoin as it comes available and another tactic would be to hold back some or all of the amounts that they have available to be waiting for dips that might or might not happen.
Don't get me wrong, I am not completely opposed to the idea of holding back some portion (maybe 20% or so) of our available funds for buying possible dips, and even considering buying dips as a tactic during periods that we might have had already put a lot of money into buying bitcoin at a certain price level..
So, let's say for example, a guy had already been buying bitcoin on a regular basis at $100 per week for the past 3-ish years (since the beginning of 2023), and so he had invested right around $17.5k into bitcoin and he has around 0.35 BTC in his total holdings. Let's say that this guy rarely receives bonuses, and maybe even in the last three-ish years he had been strengthening his back up funds and putting himself into a better position (including paying off a lot of his high interest rate debts), and so right now, he is feeling quite good about his financial situation... So then let's say that all of a sudden, he receives an extra $5k from work or from inheritance or for some reason he suddenly has $5k available, which largely reflects the amount that he has been putting into bitcoin for a whole year... so he is quite excited about having so much extra funds available, and since his finances are already in such a good position, when he gets the $5k, he considers authorizing to put all of it into bitcoin, yet he still has to figure out how he is going to do it. A possible default position would be to authorize $1,667 to buy right away, plug $1,667 into his DCA system and to put $1,667 toward buying dips that may or may not end up happening. The devil is in the details regarding how specifically he structures his adding to his already existing DCA and how he might determine to buy dips. For example, he could double his DCA's from $100 to $200 for the next 16.7 weeks. He could structure that he buys $167 in bitcoin every time the BTC price drops $2k, starting from $72k, and yeah those might not end up getting filled... so they would be 10 BTC buy orders from $72k and down to $54k.. so whether he considers that prudent or not, is up to him in regards to the amounts and in regards to the intervals... yet the fact that he already committed 2/3 of the total amounts to buying right away and buying in the next 16.7 weeks might already give him assurances that he is not bothered about whether or not the remaining $1,667 ends up being used to buy dips or not.
My point is that guys choose their level of aggressiveness and also the extent to which they might structure in waiting for dips that may or may not end up happening, and surely having extra funds could justify holding back some funds for waiting, even though other guys would rather either buy right away or maybe to just add any buy the dip portion to their DCA amount.. over a certain period of time that is comfortable to them and they feel that they are going to end up putting it into bitcoin without having to wait for dips that might not end up happening.
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I think it is unwise for investors to create or set a time frame for the amount of profit they intend to make in a giving time frame because it is not realistic since they do not know what the Bitcoin price would will be in the time frame they set for themselves and if they do not make the profit they want in the time frame they set for themselves, it could make them sell their entire Bitcoin holding for not achieving their targeted profit. Everyone should invest in Bitcoin without setting any time frame of getting a certain profit in a giving period, because Bitcoin does not work in our own way and it could take longer than we expect for Bitcoin to give us reasonable amount of profit.
There could be specific reasons that guys might have specific timelines that they are investing, and sometimes it might relate to age/health type considerations.
Let's say that a guy is 55 years old and about to turn 56 years old, and he just heard about bitcoin in such a way that he considers that it might be a good idea to invest into it, and he believes that he really ONLY has about another 6 years with his job and some expectation of an income in which his employer forces retirement when guys turn 62 years old.. So the guy gathers up the information regarding his various resources, and he considers how much he might be able to invest into bitcoin on a weekly basis for the next 6 years and also he considers some other investments that he has, and he considers how much of those other investments that he is planning to put into bitcoin.
Accordingly, the guy has a certain timeline, and sure maybe he wished that he had more time and/or more resources, but he has what he has, and so he considers that he is going to put as much into bitcoin over the coming 6 years, and then maybe he would be done putting in whatever he is able to put in, and then when he reaches 62 years old, he might start to withdraw from it or maybe he will wait and start to draw from his bitcoin when he is 64 or 65.. He considers that he has to figure out how he is going to feel and what other cashflows that he might have when he reaches 62 years old and whether or not income from his bitcoin holdings might need to supplement whatever income that he has at that time. He does anticipate that whatever income that he has at 62 years old is not going to go as far by the time he is 64 or 65.. yet he is going to play it by ear regarding exactly what he is going to do, even though he has a specific timeline that he believes that he will be able to accumulate bitcoin and that he might not be in a position to be able to accumulate more bitcoin once he is forced to retire at 62 years of age.
One of the mistakes that can wreck a bitcoin investor is for them to misunderstand when they've hit over-accumulation, some people claim to have reached their over-accumulation level and start selling only to realize that they haven't even hit over accumulation yet, if you somehow decide to stop accumulating bitcoin and start selling then don't confuse it with having reached over-accumulation.
Reaching over accumulation is not necessarily a time to start selling your bitcoin in a hurry, you can still remain in overaccumulation phase until the termination of your holding period. It is a big flex to surpass your target, but it would be a wrong approach to sell a large part of your portfolio simply because you have reached over accumulation stage, the investor may realize he has messed things up for himself along the line and attempt buying back to get his portfolio size back up and the task of getting back to where he was may be more difficult and he may prefer if he had not made such mistake to withdraw a lot in a hurry.
When you reach overaccumulation, you do not necessarily have to keep buying if you don't wish, you can just hold until your holding period terminates and you start withdrawing sustainably from it. If you withdraw sustainably from your portfolio, then it can sustain you for longer, and your portfolio might keep appreciating in value as time progresses which would see you sustainably withdraw more value from it.
The idea of sustainable withdrawal should be that you can start to withdraw forever and ever and ever since your withdrawal amount is less than your BTC stash is appreciating.
Of course, guys can also purposefully choose to withdraw beyond sustainable withdrawal levels and to deplete their bitcoin principle, yet it might not be necessary to deplete the principle if a person is still relatively young and would like to continue to withdraw a sustainable income from his bitcoin potentially through the remainder of his life, if he does not screw it up by overly withdrawing from it... and there surely are techniques to monitor so that the withdrawal rate stays sustainable. A nice thing about having extra is to have cushion to make sure that the rate being withdrawn is sustainable, and sure adjustments can be made, but if the cushion is decently great, then there shouldn't be any great risks that the withdrawal rate is becoming unsustainable.
....if he continues to invest continuously depending on his discretionary income, then he will definitely be able to maintain Bitcoin accumulation consistently.
You are probably correct to say that the BTC stash is going to continue to grow as long as buying is happening and no selling is happening.. even though it bothers me when guys speak in absolutes, which from my perspective just comes off as exaggerations.. even if the logic adds up.
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the DCA strategy is used to reduce unexpected risks.
The DCA strategy allows us to invest into bitcoin in accordance with our available funds, it does not take away risk from the underlying asset (in this case bitcoin) even if we might have had created systems in which we are not overly or underly investing into bitcoin, so then we are willing to accept that BTC's prices might go up, might go down or might go sideways, and accordingly, we have chosen an amount that we are willing to lose.. so then we have accepted the risk.. we have not reduced it or taken it away as your suggestion or "reducing" seems to imply in the way that it is expressed.
Well yeah, everyone has different goals when they invest in Bitcoin. Some people invest strictly for the medium term, for example, accumulating during a bear market and gradually selling off during a bull market, or when they’ve made enough profit and want to enjoy it.
Usually, only those who invest for the medium term that is, less than 10 years have the mindset to enjoy profits every time they make a gain, such as when BTC reached an ATH this season. That’s fine as long as it aligns with their original goals from the start.
So you are saying that by accumulating consistently for a period of four years and selling everything during the bull run, and becoming a no coiner overnight is a goal or it's just trading?
Because I know that a true bitcoin investor have no business or will never sell off his Bitcoin investment when he has not gotten to his over accumulation status, talk less of becoming a no coiner overnight. So you need to understand that anyone that act in such a way is a trader, not a bitcoin investor as he claims, because it's only traders that act in such a way, not investors that is only thinking on how to build real wealth through his Bitcoin investment.
Selling off all your bitcoin because you see you are on profit is gambling such person didn't come for investment at the time he will sell all he will now be a no coiner what would that benefits him such person didn't see bitcoin as a store of value in future time the price he sold out will be dip and by then he has no investment again that's just foolishness, a real investor even when he has gotten to his over accumulation won't even sell off all this Bitcoin because of mere uptrend in the market for he will either sell some and still be hodling BTC because he knows the asset he is hodling.
Not everyone in Bitcoin operates with the same mindset, and that’s where most of the confusion comes from. There are long-term holders, cycle investors, and traders and the difference is defined by strategy, not by whether someone sells or not.
Are you trying to confuse things? Of course, whether or not you sell remains an important factor in regards to whether you are an investor versus if you are a trader.. .. and if you are selling "with a strategy" to buy back cheaper because you consider yourself to be the smartest of investors, you are trading and gambling and not investing.. even if you want to proclaim you are doing the same investment thing with merely a different strategy, and yeah your fucking around with selling takes you out of the investor category, even if you are wanting to proclaim yourself to be an investor.
Selling during a bull market doesn’t automatically mean someone is not a Bitcoin investor.
Get the fuck out of here.
A cycle investor, for example, may deliberately accumulate in bear markets and take profits in bull markets as part of a planned approach.
That is called trading and gambling. Why don't you go to some other thread if you want to promote such convoluted nonsense.
That is still investing just an active, cycle based strategy.
Yeah, and your posts in this thread are likely going to get deleted if you are going to ramble on about such off-topic and confusing bullshit in this thread.
The real distinction is discipline vs emotion.
How do you figure out how to control your discipline and emotions? By investing rather than trading.. which is ongoing buying of bitcoin and not selling (absent spend and replace or maybe some incidental selling that might end up happening from time to time). We maintain discipline and control our emotions by deploying a system of accumulating bitcoin and building and/or strengthening our cashflow management systems/practices, and yeah, sure as we accumulate more and more bitcoin, we may well might end up making some adjustments to our ways of accumulating bitcoin, yet hopefully we are not going to devolve into trading.. and if you are here fucking around trying to promote such trading nonsense, then you are off topic, which also might be known as trolling if you are wanting to push your trading bullshit ideas.
Selling based on panic or hype is speculation. Selling based on a clear, pre-defined plan is investing.
No it is not. Selling with an expectation to buy back cheaper is trading and/or gambling and not investing.
Even long-term Bitcoin investors who primarily hold for years may still take partial profits or rebalance when necessary. That doesn’t erase their investment mindset it reflects risk management and financial planning.
There might be more room for trading as a person builds his bitcoin portfolio, yet I recommend against trading, and anyone who might not be able to control himself might try to limit any trading and/or shitcoining to less than 10% of his bitcoin holdings, yet again, we are not talking about trading here... so fuck off with your persistence in that unless you at least have some kind of an actual investing point.. rather than trying to redefine trading as if it were investing..
First thing first.. .building our bitcoin portfolio and shoring up our cashflow management systems/practices.. Have you figured out how to do those things yet, before you get distracted into off-topicness?
You have been registered on the forum for 3.5 months and what are you doing? Have you been investing or trading? Of course, you don't seem to know the difference..so you might not even know what you have been doing.
Did you get involved in buying bitcoin in the last 3.5 months or have you been involved in buying bitcoin before that?
In a ballpark way, describe what has been your system?
Or are you just talking about bitcoin in theory without having any personal practice in terms of your experientially knowing the difference between investing and trading (ie, gambling)?
So the key point is simple: investing is not defined by never selling, but by having a clear strategy and sticking to it without emotional decisions.
You are speaking gobble-dee-gook.
I will agree that the various techniques and the knowledge level to invest in bitcoin and to build/strengthen cashflow management are of a level that an overwhelming majority of adults (perhaps in the ballpark of 97%) should be capable of knowing or learning, yet the whole idea is not simple in the sense that it may well take practice in order to figure out the balances of how to invest and manage cashflows and not to get lured into dumbass ideas that convolute investing and trading as if they were the same thing, when they are not.
Get the fuck out of here. You are talking about trading and not investing, even though you are using the term "investing." You are in the wrong thread if you want to talk about trading.
When these guys sell their BTC are they intending to buy back cheaper, and you even suggested that some of them might be merely taking profits. Do you want to argue that is investing and not trading? I am presuming that you are considering guys who might be trying to play the 4-year cycle, even though surely there can be situations in which guys might be coming into bitcoin intending to play one 4 year cycle, so they are planning to get in and out in less than 4 years, yet some of them might get stuck on the wrong side of a trade, so they might feel that they have to hold onto their bitcoin longer until it goes into sufficient profits, to the extent that they don't decide to get out "unprofitable" in order to cut their losses, since they might perceive that they have opportunities to put the money (that they had put into bitcoin) into other places in order to make up for whatever losses (or lack of profits) that they had ended up going through with bitcoin. Do you really consider those kinds of adjustments as "investing" too?
Apparently I will suggest that this individual doesn’t know what he is talking about because it’s obvious he is speculating about what he doesn’t know and it’s obvious he is just merely a trader and not an investor judging by his time of registration he knows what he is doing and he is just only interested in his trading capabilities, some individuals who can only afford buying and selling bitcoin, and they think that is an investment for them instead that makes them a trader.
I might have to start to delete some of these trading posts since they seem to be both convoluting the topic and not even trying to work within the parameters of this thread. .. and sure, I don't mind some deviation from the thread's topic if there seems to be some attempts to relate the discussion to the thread.. yet it could also be that I have been being a bit too tolerant.. especially since aspects of this topic can be interpreted in relatively broad ways.
He should have know that when you’re selling your bitcoin all in the name of merely trading to have profits which I will suggest that it’s a desperation and negligence from the individual to keep being interested in the four years circle because I think that the four years circle doesn’t guarantee anything, and you can possibly buy and accumulate bitcoin for at least, 4 years which is one circle and it still doesn’t determine anything because they could still end up not having enough profits, we all know that bitcoin investments profit isn’t a guarantee, and it could only have a positive effect when you have been accumulating more with a high discretionary income.
For sure, even guys who are inclined towards investing can get lured into trading (or selling with an intention of buying back cheaper or even just cutting losses when there are assessments that the odds of downward BTC price moves has become high). .. So there may well be some needs for a certain amount of tolerance for guys who could get sucked into trading and even into shitcoins, even though my ongoing assertion has been that guys should try to limit their own exposure to those temptations, and surely it becomes even more problematic if they are either promoting trading/shitcoin ideas in this thread and trying to suggest they are investing, when it starts to become clear that they have greatly deviated from the thread's topic...and even guys who talk about general investing topics, and do not relate some of their ideas to my own investment ideas, they may well be deviating from the thread too.. .. since some guys will come into the thread with cookie-cutter views of investing including some of the diversification ideas that I find to be problematic for bitcoin newbies, and it can be off topic too, if going too much into talking about other investments, such as property and gold, even though I have had some tolerance to some discussions in this thread related to those comparisons of bitcoin to other assets matters.
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..Sometimes the more you hold a bitcoin the more the profit becomes....
Part of the idea of any investment (including bitcoin) is that if we are ongoingly focusing on accumulating units of the asset (in this case bitcoin or satoshis), then at some point, the unit price is likely to change to our advantage, and if we had spent time, energy and value accumulating a lot of the units, then when they go up in value, our efforts for having had accumulated them ends up paying off, and sometimes in quite stupendous ways... even though the pay off is not guaranteed, including that we can experience both execution risk and also risks related to the underlying asset (including aspects of our current status in which there are ongoing attacks on self-custody and privacy even though some of the governments and institutions are acting as if they just love bitcoin, when they surely don't love that normal people are empowered by their abilities to hold it privately and to transact without asking permission from any of those control freak, always want to monitor dweebs).
