JJG’s Outline of Bitcoin Investment Ideas

[Grease5000]

He should have know that when you’re selling your bitcoin all in the name of merely trading to have profits which I will suggest that it’s a desperation and negligence from the individual to keep being interested in the four years circle because I think that the four years circle doesn’t guarantee anything, and you can possibly buy and accumulate bitcoin for at least, 4 years which is one circle and it still doesn’t determine anything because they could still end up not having enough profits, we all know that bitcoin investments profit isn’t a guarantee, and it could only have a positive effect when you have been accumulating more with a high discretionary income.

For sure, even guys who are inclined towards investing can get lured into trading (or selling with an intention of buying back cheaper or even just cutting losses when there are assessments that the odds of downward BTC price moves has become high). .. So there may well be some needs for a certain amount of tolerance for guys who could get sucked into trading and even into shitcoins, even though my ongoing assertion has been that guys should try to limit their own exposure to those temptations, and surely it becomes even more problematic if they are either promoting trading/shitcoin ideas in this thread and trying to suggest they are investing, when it starts to become clear that they have greatly deviated from the thread's topic...and even guys who talk about general investing topics, and do not relate some of their ideas to my own investment ideas, they may well be deviating from the thread too.. .. since some guys will come into the thread with cookie-cutter views of investing including some of the diversification ideas that I find to be problematic for bitcoin newbies, and it can be off topic too, if going too much into talking about other investments, such as property and gold, even though I have had some tolerance to some discussions in this thread related to those comparisons of bitcoin to other assets matters.

Yes, it can actually be frustrating/ annoying to see people introduce the ideas that end up misleading newbies who are genuinely trying to learn the basic of the investment ideas, expecialy in a focused discussion thread like this. I must agree with you that  when the conversation divert to trading or promotion of other coins, it sometimes blurs the lines for newbies who may not yet understand the risks involved. However,  it's true that some folks get pulled into trading with the intention of buying back lower or even reacting emotionally by selling thier bitcoin during downturns and all these are expected since it's volatile in nature. That temptation is real and that's a total approach mistakes, especially for those without much experience.

Surely, there may be some presumptions that we might do in relation to who we expect to be investing into bitcoin and also supplementing their bitcoin investment by building their cashflow management along side of their bitcoin investment... so yeah, there may be some guys who are more distracted or lured into trading and/or shitcoins than others, and surely if they might be trying to mostly focus on bitcoin and their getting through their strengthening of their cashflow management, then they might realize that if they do get distracted by shitcoins and/or trading, then maybe at least they can limit their exposure to those activities..  Of course, another distraction these days might be bitcoin treasuries, like MSTR and related products and also the bitcoin spot ETFs, and so there can be a variety of challenges that may well include what seems to be new shitcoins.. and yeah, how much of their portfolio ends up getging lured into inferior products might be a question of self-discipline and maybe learning along the way if mistakes are made (hoping that none of the damages from the mistakes end up getting the newbies too far off track and that the newbies can at least make it through a whole cycle.. which seems that many of us might feel that we had ended up learning quite a bit about bitcoin  and bitcoin related matters if we can build our bitcoin holdings and survive through at least a whole cycle.

In my own opinion, it's far more beneficial for some folks to build thier confidence in a long-term strategy by focusing or investing on a valuable asset like bitcoin than chasing quick profits/gains, staying consistent and avoiding unnecessary distractions from any folks can make you, as bitcoin investor a big difference over time.

Both you and I might believe these things, and I tend to both proclaim it is a bad idea to get distracted into shitcoins, trading and/or bitcoin paper products, yet at the same time, if guys want to experiment, it can be hard to stop them and maybe better to suggest that they just limit their exposure to those inferior products/practices such as less than 10% the size of their bitcoin holdings.

He should understand that selling all your Bitcoin just to chase profits is often driven by impatience, not strategy. Relying blindly on the four-year cycle is also risky it’s a pattern, not a guarantee. Someone can accumulate for four years and still not achieve the expected returns, because Bitcoin doesn’t promise profits on any fixed timeline.

What truly matters is consistency and capacity. Bitcoin rewards those who keep accumulating over time, especially as their discretionary income improves. Focusing only on when to sell misses the bigger picture. A disciplined investor doesn’t depend on cycles or rush to exit completely. Instead, they accumulate steadily, increase their position as income grows, and allow time not speculation  to drive results.

[Princess Leah]

Once you start focusing more on profit than getting to your over accumulation status, then I will consider you as a trader because you will never be able to hold strong as investors are used to. And I also want you to understand that holding for only four years and selling everything off is still trading your Bitcoin, because a true bitcoin investor has no business selling or taking profits from his investment when he has not gotten to his over accumulation status, so if you are tempering or selling your Bitcoin holdings when it's at the end of a circle, you are nothing but a trader that is only interested in making profit, because a real investor will not act in such a way.

It's true, an investors goal should be focused on reaching overaccumulation stage and not worry about profits infact investing in Bitcoin doesn't guarantee profits but investors only hope that Bitcoin would keep doing more numbers then keep accumulating with patience and determination to achieve their goal, traders are the ones who have reasons to worry which is why they sell too quickly cause they're only focused on profits.

 One thing people don't understand is, holding for a cycle doesn't mean they should sell everything, an investment is a lifetime opportunity to ensure that one is financially free so when an investor sell everything then such person have ruined the opportunity of having lifetime financial freedom and would still fall back to start investing from scratch whereas a foundation was already laid, reaching overaccumulation stage too is not a criteria for selling off everything, a wise investor would only sell some portions instead of everything.

[Shineup]

Using the aggressive approach to buy bitcoin is solely dependent on their discretionary income however not everyone get the luxury to frontload their bitcoin or adopt the aggressive approach to their accumulation and it's fine to work with your financial capability. Bitcoin was designed for everybody and both the poor aren't left out, they can still work with their capacity and investing accordingly to their financial strength provided it's coming from their discretionary income they can invest and hold for long term like every investor, the only persons who would be putting their finance in problem when they invest is those without discritionary income.

There's nothing wrong with someone approaching Bitcoin with the goal of accumulating, which can be done aggressively. This indicates that anyone can do it in any way or amount. Clearly anyone who does this prioritizes having discretionary income. This means that no matter how much income they use they won't encounter any problems. Without discretionary income they still can't do it even with various methods. Accumulating Bitcoin is certainly possible for anyone but not everyone can do it aggressively as it depends on their financial resources. Therefore if you have a small income it's better not to do it aggressively but rather to do it in a way that's easy to understand. Forcing yourself to accumulate by force will ultimately lead to problems.

What are you even saying? I wonder what could possibly be your own definition of investing aggressively, look let me tell that even those that small income and are able to identify or figure their discretionary income they can do it aggressively as little or much as they can without forcing themselves to do more than they should have, anyone can be aggressive in their own kind of way and within their boundaries.

[cxtreenal]

While the seasoned investors spend time accumulating bitcoin during the bear season, either by dca or other methods and hold till the next circle which is bull season to partial profit or continue accumulation.

You sound like a trader. I'll correct you. An experienced Bitcoin investor is focused on a 4-years (one cycle) or multiple cycles. They accumulate Bitcoin in a DCA method regardless of the period of Bitcoin price increase or decrease. They are creating multiple sources of income to increase the amount of Bitcoin holding. If they have extra funds, they lump sum and want to stack up more Bitcoin. Experience is of great value to them. They don't waste time on short term profits (in trading/gambling). They accumulate Bitcoin regularly in multiple cycles and DCA regularly to build a large holding.

[Popkon6]

Using the aggressive approach to buy bitcoin is solely dependent on their discretionary income however not everyone get the luxury to frontload their bitcoin or adopt the aggressive approach to their accumulation and it's fine to work with your financial capability. Bitcoin was designed for everybody and both the poor aren't left out, they can still work with their capacity and investing accordingly to their financial strength provided it's coming from their discretionary income they can invest and hold for long term like every investor, the only persons who would be putting their finance in problem when they invest is those without discritionary income.

There's nothing wrong with someone approaching Bitcoin with the goal of accumulating, which can be done aggressively. This indicates that anyone can do it in any way or amount. Clearly anyone who does this prioritizes having discretionary income. This means that no matter how much income they use they won't encounter any problems. Without discretionary income they still can't do it even with various methods. Accumulating Bitcoin is certainly possible for anyone but not everyone can do it aggressively as it depends on their financial resources. Therefore if you have a small income it's better not to do it aggressively but rather to do it in a way that's easy to understand. Forcing yourself to accumulate by force will ultimately lead to problems.

What are you even saying? I wonder what could possibly be your own definition of investing aggressively, look let me tell that even those that small income and are able to identify or figure their discretionary income they can do it aggressively as little or much as they can without forcing themselves to do more than they should have, anyone can be aggressive in their own kind of way and within their boundaries.

Not only in Bitcoin investment but in any work, you should not be aggressive, because no work is good if you rush. Rather, the work you do aggressively will be wrong in some way or the other, in terms of investment, you are investing in Bitcoin for the long term, so there is no need to rush in this case. Rather, if you invest in Bitcoin by following the DCA method weekly, and patiently maintain it for a long time, then of course your Bitcoin investment will be profitable.

But whenever you invest in Bitcoin aggressively, and in the greed of earning more money, you borrow money and invest in Bitcoin. Then you will face more pressure, as a result, you may face problems with Bitcoin investment. That is why you should never rush in Bitcoin investment, with your optional income, you continue to invest in Bitcoin patiently and keep the investment for a long time.

[Shineup]

Using the aggressive approach to buy bitcoin is solely dependent on their discretionary income however not everyone get the luxury to frontload their bitcoin or adopt the aggressive approach to their accumulation and it's fine to work with your financial capability. Bitcoin was designed for everybody and both the poor aren't left out, they can still work with their capacity and investing accordingly to their financial strength provided it's coming from their discretionary income they can invest and hold for long term like every investor, the only persons who would be putting their finance in problem when they invest is those without discritionary income.

There's nothing wrong with someone approaching Bitcoin with the goal of accumulating, which can be done aggressively. This indicates that anyone can do it in any way or amount. Clearly anyone who does this prioritizes having discretionary income. This means that no matter how much income they use they won't encounter any problems. Without discretionary income they still can't do it even with various methods. Accumulating Bitcoin is certainly possible for anyone but not everyone can do it aggressively as it depends on their financial resources. Therefore if you have a small income it's better not to do it aggressively but rather to do it in a way that's easy to understand. Forcing yourself to accumulate by force will ultimately lead to problems.

What are you even saying? I wonder what could possibly be your own definition of investing aggressively, look let me tell that even those that small income and are able to identify or figure their discretionary income they can do it aggressively as little or much as they can without forcing themselves to do more than they should have, anyone can be aggressive in their own kind of way and within their boundaries.

Not only in Bitcoin investment but in any work, you should not be aggressive, because no work is good if you rush. Rather, the work you do aggressively will be wrong in some way or the other, in terms of investment, you are investing in Bitcoin for the long term, so there is no need to rush in this case. Rather, if you invest in Bitcoin by following the DCA method weekly, and patiently maintain it for a long time, then of course your Bitcoin investment will be profitable.

But whenever you invest in Bitcoin aggressively, and in the greed of earning more money, you borrow money and invest in Bitcoin. Then you will face more pressure, as a result, you may face problems with Bitcoin investment. That is why you should never rush in Bitcoin investment, with your optional income, you continue to invest in Bitcoin patiently and keep the investment for a long time.

I don't consider someone who has the basic knowledge of Bitcoin and are able to figure out a discretionary income to invest in Bitcoin and finally invested aggressively within his boundaries as someone rushing into Bitcoin investment because he has already figured out things that are basics needed for him to start his investment, investing aggressively doesn't include greed but you are investing over aggressively we can talk about greed profiles which can possibly get you in to trouble, all what we need to start with is a basic knowledge and a discretionary income and that is not rushing in my opinion.

[DubemIfedigbo001]

There's nothing wrong with someone approaching Bitcoin with the goal of accumulating, which can be done aggressively. This indicates that anyone can do it in any way or amount. Clearly anyone who does this prioritizes having discretionary income. This means that no matter how much income they use they won't encounter any problems. Without discretionary income they still can't do it even with various methods. Accumulating Bitcoin is certainly possible for anyone but not everyone can do it aggressively as it depends on their financial resources. Therefore if you have a small income it's better not to do it aggressively but rather to do it in a way that's easy to understand. Forcing yourself to accumulate by force will ultimately lead to problems.

Your level of aggressiveness does not depend on your financial resources, neither does it depend on the quantity of discretionary income available to an investor, rather it is the percentage of your total discretionary income which you are investing into bitcoin. Investors with low discretionary income can still invest aggressively in they can comfortably put a higher quantity of their discretionary income into bitcoin and hold for long, and someone with a higher discretionary income can still whimpily invest in bitcoin if he uses a lesser fraction of his discretionary income to buy bitcoin.

A brief example can help you understanding....
If an investors has $100 discretionary income available and can invest $60 into bitcoin periodically, the person is more aggressive than another investor who has $500 and could only invest $200 into bitcoin. This is because the first investor puts 60% of his discretionary income into bitcoin and the second investor only puts 40% of his discretionary income into bitcoin.

[Alonso_]

Using the aggressive approach to buy bitcoin is solely dependent on their discretionary income however not everyone get the luxury to frontload their bitcoin or adopt the aggressive approach to their accumulation and it's fine to work with your financial capability. Bitcoin was designed for everybody and both the poor aren't left out, they can still work with their capacity and investing accordingly to their financial strength provided it's coming from their discretionary income they can invest and hold for long term like every investor, the only persons who would be putting their finance in problem when they invest is those without discritionary income.

There's nothing wrong with someone approaching Bitcoin with the goal of accumulating, which can be done aggressively. This indicates that anyone can do it in any way or amount. Clearly anyone who does this prioritizes having discretionary income. This means that no matter how much income they use they won't encounter any problems. Without discretionary income they still can't do it even with various methods. Accumulating Bitcoin is certainly possible for anyone but not everyone can do it aggressively as it depends on their financial resources. Therefore if you have a small income it's better not to do it aggressively but rather to do it in a way that's easy to understand. Forcing yourself to accumulate by force will ultimately lead to problems.

What are you even saying? I wonder what could possibly be your own definition of investing aggressively, look let me tell that even those that small income and are able to identify or figure their discretionary income they can do it aggressively as little or much as they can without forcing themselves to do more than they should have, anyone can be aggressive in their own kind of way and within their boundaries.

Not only in Bitcoin investment but in any work, you should not be aggressive, because no work is good if you rush. Rather, the work you do aggressively will be wrong in some way or the other, in terms of investment, you are investing in Bitcoin for the long term, so there is no need to rush in this case. Rather, if you invest in Bitcoin by following the DCA method weekly, and patiently maintain it for a long time, then of course your Bitcoin investment will be profitable.

But whenever you invest in Bitcoin aggressively, and in the greed of earning more money, you borrow money and invest in Bitcoin. Then you will face more pressure, as a result, you may face problems with Bitcoin investment. That is why you should never rush in Bitcoin investment, with your optional income, you continue to invest in Bitcoin patiently and keep the investment for a long time.

Personally I don’t really think anything is wrong with buying and investing in Bitcoin aggressively, because you don’t have to be aggressive all the time, and being aggressive with caution is very important knowing when to be aggressive and also knowing when to stop, but I can’t tell anyone not to be aggressive when they know what they’re doing, considering that you have enough discretionary income now, and you want to be aggressive then there is nothing wrong with that, because you’re only trying to buy and stack more bitcoin into your portfolio but there are people who can also be reckless with their abilities of buying and stacking bitcoin because they get involved with over aggressiveness which becomes a mess and they might end up jeopardizing their bitcoin investment.

However if you don’t have that means of being aggressive it’s better to stick with buying how you’re more comfortable with buying bitcoin through the DCA which we have seen for a long time now as a more comfortable investment technique.

[Bright0515]

Here is another logic behind the reason we need to start our savings for back up funds along side our bitcoin investment from our discretionary. Imagine starting up your bitcoin investment without backup fund and after 2 week of investing $100 you encounter an emergency situation that requires $50 to solve, at this point if you don't have any spare money elsewhere,

Someone with a common sense should understand that having an emergency funds is important even though they are presently into any investment or businesses, because one of the importance of having an emergency funds is that it helps you take care of emergency situations that involves money without you tampering your Bitcoin portfolio. Another true fact that makes emergency funds important when it comes to Bitcoin investment is that it even makes you no to experience emotional stress ones an emergency situations occurs. The reason why many investors makes so many mistakes which includes selling their Bitcoin prematurely is because they go through emotional stress as they don't have anywhere else to get money and sort out the emergency situation.

So many people depend on their family and friends for supports whenever they encounter emergency situation and that's because they don't have any money aside for potential emergency, but an investor with a common sense will understand that it's not good to depend on anyone during emergency situation, so what they would do is keep some money for emergency as they start investing into Bitcoin. The fact that people might fail you because it's already obvious that everyone has their own challenges and not everyone chose to share it with others is enough reasons why people should neither depend on friends nor families members during emergency situation, so it's important to have emergency funds while investing into Bitcoin.

Many people that doesn't understand the importance of having an emergency funds don't really understand that emergency funds helps to protect their present needs/situations and their future goals/achievements. Imagine the situation whereby an investor don't have any emergency funds and suddenly emergency situation occurs, the truth is that they have only 3 options which are selling, borrowing or depending on friends and families members for a support meanwhile everyone already have their own challenges.

[laijsica]

Using the aggressive approach to buy bitcoin is solely dependent on their discretionary income however not everyone get the luxury to frontload their bitcoin or adopt the aggressive approach to their accumulation and it's fine to work with your financial capability. Bitcoin was designed for everybody and both the poor aren't left out, they can still work with their capacity and investing accordingly to their financial strength provided it's coming from their discretionary income they can invest and hold for long term like every investor, the only persons who would be putting their finance in problem when they invest is those without discritionary income.

There's nothing wrong with someone approaching Bitcoin with the goal of accumulating, which can be done aggressively. This indicates that anyone can do it in any way or amount. Clearly anyone who does this prioritizes having discretionary income. This means that no matter how much income they use they won't encounter any problems. Without discretionary income they still can't do it even with various methods. Accumulating Bitcoin is certainly possible for anyone but not everyone can do it aggressively as it depends on their financial resources. Therefore if you have a small income it's better not to do it aggressively but rather to do it in a way that's easy to understand. Forcing yourself to accumulate by force will ultimately lead to problems.

What are you even saying? I wonder what could possibly be your own definition of investing aggressively, look let me tell that even those that small income and are able to identify or figure their discretionary income they can do it aggressively as little or much as they can without forcing themselves to do more than they should have, anyone can be aggressive in their own kind of way and within their boundaries.

Not only in Bitcoin investment but in any work, you should not be aggressive, because no work is good if you rush. Rather, the work you do aggressively will be wrong in some way or the other, in terms of investment, you are investing in Bitcoin for the long term, so there is no need to rush in this case. Rather, if you invest in Bitcoin by following the DCA method weekly, and patiently maintain it for a long time, then of course your Bitcoin investment will be profitable.

But whenever you invest in Bitcoin aggressively, and in the greed of earning more money, you borrow money and invest in Bitcoin. Then you will face more pressure, as a result, you may face problems with Bitcoin investment. That is why you should never rush in Bitcoin investment, with your optional income, you continue to invest in Bitcoin patiently and keep the investment for a long time.

You should hurry to start Bitcoin. Some new investors decide to start late to gain experience about Bitcoin, but they should start with any size of fund. Rushing to accumulate Bitcoin is not always a good idea, but it is a good idea for some investors. If you have the cash available, buy Bitcoin quickly before its price increases.
You should not rush if you are not disciplined in investing in Bitcoin for the long term. Consider a Bitcoin accumulation period of 4-10 years and be consistent. You should accumulate Bitcoin regularly using DCA method through discretionary income.

[UpTober]

I frequently suggest that guys invest into bitcoin as aggressively as they are able to without overdoing it, and of course that is a bit of a vague suggestion, since guys have to figure out the parameters that amount to investing as aggressively as they can without overdoing it within the boundaries of their own means.. and surely if a guy has a shorter timeline (such as one that might be 4-10 years), he might want to reach that status of overaccumulation faster than a guy who might already know that he has a timeline that is perhaps 20 years or more, even though he would not complain if he were to reach overaccumulation status at a time that is a few years sooner than he thought that he was going to be able to reach it.

I find this your suggestion very helpful, it will help investors to meet up their investment target quite on time because if guys should focus on the ongoing buying of bitcoin without even trying to figure out the time that they will need to invest aggressively their investment journey may be delayed even though surely they will definitely reach their investment target or their status of overaccumulation yet it's good to be aggressive sometimes especially when there's a buying opportunity. Although some guys might feel ok with their regular buying of bitcoin without being aggressive as they have already program how their investment journey is going to look like I mean the amount to go with that they  can easily  achieve their investment target in so, so, years so after having all this things set up guys is likely not to pay attention to some certain opportunity of being aggressive which is actually not a problem the most important thing is that they are sure of completing their investment journey.

Using the aggressive approach to buy bitcoin is solely dependent on their discretionary income however not everyone get the luxury to frontload their bitcoin or adopt the aggressive approach to their accumulation and it's fine to work with your financial capability. Bitcoin was designed for everybody and both the poor aren't left out, they can still work with their capacity and investing accordingly to their financial strength provided it's coming from their discretionary income they can invest and hold for long term like every investor, the only persons who would be putting their finance in problem when they invest is those without discritionary income.

Yes, investing in Bitcoin is for everyone, but only those who understand proper money management succeed in investing. Many people say that it is not possible for them to invest if their income is low, but even people with low incomes can invest in Bitcoin consistently with a long-term plan through proper management. You have made an important point in this regard, whether the investor will invest aggressively or normally, it is entirely up to the investor to do so on the basis of the investor's discretionary income. If investors who have high monthly or weekly income or investors who have high discretionary income buy Bitcoin aggressively, then it is okay for them, but those who have low income as well as low discretionary income, but they have to buy after considering everything and the best way for them would be to buy with understanding of the DCA as well as the position.

[Sticky Bomb]

While the seasoned investors spend time accumulating bitcoin during the bear season, either by dca or other methods and hold till the next circle which is bull season to partial profit or continue accumulation.

Why would they take partial profits? are they real investors or mere traders, buying at lower prices and waiting for bull season to take profits is trading your portfolio, only traders go for short-term profits. Investors keep holding and adding to their portfolio and are not distracted or attempt to change strategy when their investment starts getting profitable in bull season, it is a better practice to maintain your consistency in your accumulation journey and remain committed to long-term holding than targeting short-term profits.

DCA is not done only during the bear season, it should not be stopped when bitcoin price starts appreciating or bull seasons comes by. As long as the investor is yet to reach his accumulation target, it is important they continue adding to their portfolio as long as they have discretionary income available. Bitcoin investment should be for the long-term and accumulation using DCA should be a consistent endeavor and not a seasonal activity like you mentioned.

[JayJuanGee]

Not everyone in Bitcoin operates with the same mindset, and that’s where most of the confusion comes from. There are long-term holders, cycle investors, and traders and the difference is defined by strategy, not by whether someone sells or not.
Selling during a bull market doesn’t automatically mean someone is not a Bitcoin investor. A cycle investor, for example, may deliberately accumulate in bear markets and take profits in bull markets as part of a planned approach. That is still investing just an active, cycle based strategy.

The real distinction is discipline vs emotion. Selling based on panic or hype is speculation.Selling based on a clear, pre-defined plan is investing. Even long-term Bitcoin investors who primarily hold for years may still take partial profits or rebalance when necessary. That doesn’t erase their investment mindset it reflects risk management and financial planning.

Stop misleading people by trying to twist words and use big vocabularies. Not every strategy can be referred to as investing simply because it was planned. The so-called cycle based self-acclaimed investors you’re talking about still have to depend on timing the market when they want to buy or sell and we all know that timing the market is a speculative thing wether you plan it or not. so tell me the difference between them and traders huh ?they’re practically identical and I strongly also believe that if you have to time the market before being able to decide whether to buy or not, then you’re a trader, simple.
Real investing in bitcoin is built on long term conviction, you’re not trying to outsmart any cycle like the traders do and you’re not worried about price or constantly under emotional pressure. Anything that makes you start obsessing over the idea of selling high and buying low is going to expose you to mistakes, missed runs and emotional decisions whether you admit it or not.

I don’t see any misleading information as you claiming, if you actually understand the words you are calling big vocabularies, you will understand that Grease500 is stating the obvious. 4 years makes up a bitcoin season and as an investor your are expected to hold your bitcoin minimum of 4 years before deciding to take partial or full profits and that’s what Grease500 is pointing out as seasoned investors. There’s a big difference between day traders and seasoned investors. A day trader buys and sells bitcoin on daily, weekly or monthly basis. While the seasoned investors spend time accumulating bitcoin during the bear season, either by dca or other methods and hold till the next circle which is bull season to partial profit or continue accumulation.

We are not talking about either short term trading or cyclical trading in this thread.  We are not talking about selling with intentions to buy back cheaper or trying to play the cycle.. .. at least not until a person might reach overaccumulation status. 

Accordingly, we are talking about my investment ideas in this thread, which includes investing by accumulating, and from my perspective selling is not an accumulation strategy.. selling to accumulate is trading and trading is gambling. 

You seem to be making up terms @New Judgement to be proclaiming that a person who trades the cycles can be called an investor merely because he is trying to play a whole cycle rather than less than a cycle, yet trading tends to be a slippery slope and even philosophies to sell and buy back cheaper is a slippery slope, which I find to be outside of my wanting to stay on the topic of investing. .and mostly not starting to deploy selling until reaching overaccumulation status.

If a person reaches overaccumulation status, he has more options related to managing his bitcoin holdings and perhaps even there can be some maintenance stages, from my perspective, that are accepting of managing bitcoin holdings through the employment of some buying and selling, yet the main focus of such buying/selling in maintenance, from my perspective is mostly as a kind of insurance or a way to largely attempt to maintain the size of the bitcoin holdings, not attempts to sell in order to buy back cheaper and/or intentions to try to grow the bitcoin holdings through selling. 

So let's stop with these slippery slope trading discussions in this thread, even if many guys seem to think that it is smart to try to play the four year cycles that may or may not exist.. and you can take those kinds of discussions to some other thread (a trading thread or a thread that proclaims to be about investing but tries to trade the cycles  )

[edited out]

Both accumulation and backup fund formation should be given equal importance. If you want to invest financially safely, then investing without giving importance to the backup fund will become a very risky matter. If you cannot make your foundation strong from the beginning, then the entire investment process will collapse over time. And the backup fund is the foundation of investment.

If you keep buying Bitcoin with all your discretionary income, then when an emergency arises after a few days, you may have to sell Bitcoin. Even if you don't want to, you will be forced to sell Bitcoin. Generally, it is said to keep a backup fund equal to at least 3 months of expenses. But in some cases, the amount of this backup fund can also increase. Especially for those whose income is irregular and expenses are different at different times, it may be better to keep the amount of the backup fund equal to 6 months of expenses. However, there are some problems in keeping such a large amount of money in the backup fund at once. Because it has to be kept in fiat currency, if you keep such a large amount of money in fiat currency, its value will also decrease due to inflation. However, the amount of backup fund will depend on the individual's situation. Therefore, both backup fund and accumulation are important when investing in Bitcoin. Investment and backup fund should be given importance and both should be continued together. And when the backup fund is formed, then the DCA or investment amount should be increased with that part which was spending for back up fund .

Ultimately, each person needs to figure out some balance in terms of how much back up funds he is keeping as compared with the size and growth of his bitcoin funds.

Prior to coming to bitcoin, a guy likely already had some kind of a back up fund system in place, so once he starts to consider adding bitcoin to his investment portfolio, then he is likely going to start from whatever had been his past-practice of keeping back up funds, yet he may well need to improve and/or buttress the amount of back ups that he had previously been keeping, and partly justified based on both the great liquidity and volatility of bitcoin which can tempt newbie bitcoiners  or even trap newbie bitcoiners into tapping into their bitcoin at a time that is not of their choosing, so in order to make sure that they have options, bitcoiners are likely going to need to build back up funds that end up being greater than their past practices (or at least with a further justification of keeping in mind the protection of their bitcoin stash).

If guys are starting the building/strengthening of their back up funds from whereever they had been at the time that started to add bitcoin to their investment portfolio, they may or may not feel that they need to add more back up funds until the bitcoin stash gets close to or even exceeds the size of their back up funds.... There tends to be quite a bit of discretion in the ways to grow the bitcoin stash and the back up funds and how much priority to give to the size of each of those.. and of course, if the guy ends up fucking up by not building enough back up funds or building too much back up funds, then he has to live with the consequences of his size/growth choices.

Let me give an example and let's say a guy is brand new to bitcoin, and he does not have any other investments, yet for the past few years, he had been building up his back up funds and getting into a practice of keeping at least 6 weeks of expenses in cash and/or in the bank and there had been times that he had gotten his back up funds up to 12 weeks, so his back up funds generally tended to bounce around between 6 and 12 weeks within the pre-bitcoin back up system that he had established.

So let's say that he is in his mid-20s and his current income is about $24k per year, about $2k per month, and his basic expenses are about $1,200 per month, so he has right around $800 per month in discretionary funds, and let's say that he has right around $2,400 in his back up funds, which is 2 months of his basic expenses.  This guy might purposefully choose to invest most into bitcoin and not add to his back up funds in any meaningful way until the amount that he put into his bitcoin investment is equal to the size of his back up funds.

So maybe his first 5 months look like this:  1) Invest into bitcoin $500  2) Save into back up funds $50 and 3) discretionarily consume $250

After 5 months, he had put in $2,500 into bitcoin, he had added $250 to his back up funds and he discretionarily consumed $1,250.

At that point, maybe he is feeling o.k. yet he still wants to grow his bitcoin faster than his back up funds, so maybe the next year looks like this:

1) Invest into bitcoin $400  2) Save into back up funds $150 and 3) discretionarily consume $250

Essentially the guy in my example is placing more emphasis on his bitcoin investment, yet he is not neglecting the other two categories, and sure he does not need to stay exactly locked into the same proportions, yet surely any of us who might establish a groove, we might develop some comfort, yet we also might have changes in our income/expenses or even expectations of changes in our income/expenses that we need to take into account.  We also have both the amount that we had been putting into bitcoin as well as changes in the bitcoin price that might cause our bitcoin holdings to have values that might be greater than or less than the amount that we had put into it.. and we might have various ways of valuating our bitcoin holdings or just setting the bitcoin holdings aside with ambitions of holding those bitcoin for 10 years or longer and we might not even know how long that we are expecting to hold them, even though we might have some tentative ideas about our timeline being 10 years or more and that we are planning to continue to add to our bitcoin holdings during that time and potentially to evaluate our progress on a once in a while basis and maybe even relatively in-depth assessments on a yearly basis.

And, like you mentioned, there can be time periods in which guys have great uncertainties in regards to both their income/expenses, yet also their future income/expenses that might contribute towards way more priority given to the strength of their back up funds, yet there might be other times in which they have decently strong confidence in their position in life (and in their work) and they might even be anticipating good chances for promotions which cause them to consider that they don't need to greatly add to the back up funds that they have.. and surely guys can be in periods in which they are considering that they are wanting to grow their bitcoin in a fairly aggressive way, and there may well be other times that they might start to consider that their bitcoin stash is getting to be at a decently good enough size and they might want to give less priority to it.. yet at the same time, if their wealth is growing, they also might consider that it is a good idea to keep more back up funds in assets or currencies that might be considered to be somewhat related to their cash funds, and also could just be considered to be diversifications from bitcoin, even though if they had emergencies, they would draw from their cash first and then maybe they would start to draw from any of their other (non-bitcoin) investments prior to drawing from bitcoin, yet there are some kinds of investments that might not be very liquid (such as properties), so guys likely have to think through the extent to which their overall investment portfolio growth is justifying allocations in assets beyond bitcoin and cash.

[Derekfunds]

Using the aggressive approach to buy bitcoin is solely dependent on their discretionary income however not everyone get the luxury to frontload their bitcoin or adopt the aggressive approach to their accumulation and it's fine to work with your financial capability. Bitcoin was designed for everybody and both the poor aren't left out, they can still work with their capacity and investing accordingly to their financial strength provided it's coming from their discretionary income they can invest and hold for long term like every investor, the only persons who would be putting their finance in problem when they invest is those without discritionary income.

There's nothing wrong with someone approaching Bitcoin with the goal of accumulating, which can be done aggressively. This indicates that anyone can do it in any way or amount. Clearly anyone who does this prioritizes having discretionary income. This means that no matter how much income they use they won't encounter any problems. Without discretionary income they still can't do it even with various methods. Accumulating Bitcoin is certainly possible for anyone but not everyone can do it aggressively as it depends on their financial resources. Therefore if you have a small income it's better not to do it aggressively but rather to do it in a way that's easy to understand. Forcing yourself to accumulate by force will ultimately lead to problems.

What are you even saying? I wonder what could possibly be your own definition of investing aggressively, look let me tell that even those that small income and are able to identify or figure their discretionary income they can do it aggressively as little or much as they can without forcing themselves to do more than they should have, anyone can be aggressive in their own kind of way and within their boundaries.

I agree with you to some point, because whether small income or not it doesn't stop an investor from being aggressive in their Bitcoin accumulation because sometimes what matters is financial management skill, the kind of expenses they are taking care of because when someone has a good manage skill and doesn't have a challenging expenses, they will have a good discretionary income to be aggressive when there is Dip and even if the expenses is challenging they can still be aggressive if they have saved up some reasonable amount of money from their discretionary.

[WIYO1]

Why would they take partial profits? are they real investors or mere traders, buying at lower prices and waiting for bull season to take profits is trading your portfolio, only traders go for short-term profits. Investors keep holding and adding to their portfolio and are not distracted or attempt to change strategy when their investment starts getting profitable in bull season, it is a better practice to maintain your consistency in your accumulation journey and remain committed to long-term holding than targeting short-term profits.

People can take either partial or total profit after a price move without being a short-term trader or having a short-term focus. long-term investors will also take profits over time as a means of managing risk and preserving their capital. The market is unpredictable, so locking in a portion of your profits will provide you freedom to re-enter the market if you choose, and give you peace of mind as an investor. However, while taking profit along the way is good for your overall investment plan, it is still important to continue to invest in accordance with your long-term investment strategy and accumulate wealth over time.

DCA is not done only during the bear season, it should not be stopped when bitcoin price starts appreciating or bull seasons comes by. As long as the investor is yet to reach his accumulation target, it is important they continue adding to their portfolio as long as they have discretionary income available. Bitcoin investment should be for the long-term and accumulation using DCA should be a consistent endeavor and not a seasonal activity like you mentioned.

Even if the market is now in a bullish phase, DCA does not end. Consistency of accumulation is far more important than timing the market - so keep adding positively at both down market and up market prices to balance out the impact of volatility over time. Continuing to use extra resources to stick with your plan adds security not only to your emotions but gives you a better long-term investment position compared to an approach that considers investing to be a seasonal venture.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

I don't really understand you, is holding for a cycle not same thing as long-term investment? I thought long-term investing means holding for the time frame of a complete circle or beyond that. Also is trading now part of Bitcoin investment? Cause you talked about "long-term holders, cycle investors, and traders and then differentiated them by strategy, which is why I'm confused whether trading has become part of investing in Bitcoin.

Trading is another concept of it's own and shouldn't be classified under Bitcoin investment traders are not really disciplined cause they worry more about profits than achieving their goals, investors are the more disciplined ones since they are very determined to hold longer, maintain patience and achieve their aim of investing.

It's very true that investing is not defined by never selling cause at some point when overaccumulation is attained the investor can decide to sell of some portions at the appropriate time. So far, the only holder I know that's never sold is Satoshi and I feel it's for a reason but because he did so doesn't mean that's why it should be, investors are free to sell of some portions after they've attained overaccumulation.

I think that many times we talk about investing as 4-10 years or longer in order to attempt to provide some timeline frameworks, and many times the investment timeline is going to tend to be 10 years or longer, and the ONLY guys that really fit into the less then 10 year timeline would be based on either age/health considerations and maybe the guys who had already been accumulating for 4 years or longer, and perhaps when they are adding more bitcoin to their holdings, they may well need to consider any of their new purchases to have a 4-10 year timeline or longer.

We are trying to stay away from ideas of trading in this thread, even though surely there can be times in which selling might make sense and might be practical from an investors perspective.... yet I find it as problematic to an investor's mindset or even the way we talk about investing to be convoluting ideas of trying to play the cycle as if they were the kinds of things that investors do or should be thinking about.. and sure, the larger an investors portfolio, the more options that he has, including that there may be times that investors with decent sized bitcoin holdings might consider some needs to reallocate. and perhaps move some of their bitcoin value into something else, perhaps based on how great their bitcoin holdings had been growing in relation to any other things that they had been holding.. and so then in those contexts ideas of investing versus trading might start to become ambiguous.. yet I really doubt that if we are getting into portfolio management we are trying to suggest that trying to play the cycles, especially as a purposeful way to try to grow bitcoin holdings, is a good way to invest or even talk about investing, especially in this thread where we are trying to distinguish between investing and trading.

At the end of the day, each and every one of us has to figure out what we are going to do to manage our bitcoin, and also if we believe that there are times that we feel that we need to buy, sell or hold.. and we live with the consequences of our actions... and sometimes we might get lured into situations where we end up making mistakes in terms of how we ended up dealing with our holdings and the kinds of practices that we ended up employing.

[edited out]

Another thing about trading is "withdrawing" which isn't the case of investment/investing.

Investors can have "withdrawing" too. .and many times we talk about trying to reach overaccumulation status before we start to employ any withdrawing strategies.  There can be way more comfort, logic and/or stress if we are starting to withdraw from a position of having enough or more than enough.. and if we had not yet reached a status of having enough or more than enough then we would be employing mixed and contrary and perhaps even unnecessarily stressful strategies.

While we are still in the process of building our bitcoin holdings, we might come accross situations to buy things with bitcoin and/or to use bitcoin, which we probably should consider those kinds of situations as spend and replace, especially if we are quite aware that we are clearly in our bitcoin accumulation phase.  These would not be considered as withdrawal strategies, especially if we may well be trying to replace our spends in a fairly prompt way, such as within the same week.

if there is some big ticket item that maybe has a discount to pay in bitcoin, we might be tempted to purchase, yet it still might be beyond our ability to replace the amount in a reasonable time, so we may well be putting ourself in a bad position if we might choose to use bitcoin to buy some good or service that we recognize that might need 6 months or 18 months or more to generate the funds to be able to put the quantity of money back into bitcoin that we had taken out. .and surely if we might be expecting the BTC price to drop during our buy back period, then we may well be gambling with our expectations for price drops that might not end up happening. 

We can get tempted into various kinds of actions, and surely the more bitcoin that we have, then the more we might be able to justify selling bitcoin at times that might not necessarily be good times to sell.. and surely it tends to be more risky when guys might be getting overly excited about how well their bitcoin had performed, including poor people sometimes might mot be accustomed to accumulating such wealth.. so they get lured into wanting to sell and if they sell too much too soon or they interfere with their bitcoin accumulation, it might take them years and years to get back to their prior bitcoin holdings level, and surely they may never get even close to as many bitcoin as they could have had accumulated if they had not gotten tempted (or lured) into a situation in which they ended up spending from their bitcoin when they should have had stayed focused on ongoing and persistent accumulation of bitcoin through ongoing buying. 

In the end, guys can choose for themselves, and historically there have been a decently high number of folks who were in a position to build great wealth for themselves and their families, yet they ended up wanting to "enjoy" proceeds from their bitcoin during times that they should have had either been continuing to buy or at least to just HODL through such period that they ended up selling too much bitcoin too soon.

[edited out]

I don’t really think that strong foundations, is a necessity for a individual investor to have a good portfolio in buying and accumulating bitcoin, personally I’m mostly interested in having a discretionary income to be able to keep buying and getting started with buying and accumulating bitcoin, and peace of mind might be very huge statement when your investment is fluctuating with the tendency of volatility nature of bitcoin, no doubt that your backup funds doesnt guarantee you anything when investing in bitcoin, you should endeavor to get started with your investment in bitcoin, and prioritize having that availability of a discretionary when getting started, before you start making plans for anything such as a backup fund.

Don't be exaggerating in the opposite direction, Jostern.  There is always a need for some level of back up funds to make sure that we are not spending beyond our discretionary income and not just between paychecks, but also in periods that go beyond one or two paychecks.

Surely in the beginning we may well be starting out with low back up funds, yet if we have zero back up funds, then there is almost no way that we can be sure that we are spending within our discretionary funds, and surely some guys wouldn't want to take chances to invest anything into bitcoin unless they have enough back up funds for 1-2 weeks of their expenses. .and so even though in the end, each of us is responsible to figure out what kind of balance we need to make sure that we are not spending beyond our discretionary income, we are likely going to be playing close to the fire if we are proclaiming that back up funds are not necessary, even if we have decently high levels of confidence in our income is good and our expenses are currently manageable.

For sure, I have given examples in which guys are starting out with absolutely nothing for their back up funds and then providing a road map in which they can get started buying bitcoin right away while simultaneously building their back up funds at the same pace, and sure those kinds of examples are possible to follow, yet it really seems to me that when guys are starting out with absolutely nothing, they are likely in a pretty risky situation for at least a few weeks while they are building up their bitcoin and their back up funds and maybe even it might take them 6 months or more just to get the amount of their back up funds and the amount that they had put into bitcoin to add up to just a few weeks of their expenses, and they are still in a relatively risky situation, even though presumptively, if they keep building, then little by little they are growing the size of each and ongoingly improving their financial situation both in terms of the amount they are putting into their bitcoin and the amount that their back up funds is getting up to ... and if they screw up during those early day processes or they don't control their spending or they lose income, they may well end up putting themselves into a position where they cannot continue to buy bitcoin until they replenish a decently good chunk of their back up funds.. otherwise they are gambling rather than investing, and surely guys here are not recommending to be gambling in connection with our attempts to invest in bitcoin and to strengthen our cashflow management systems/practices.

[Ashawowo(OS)]

Why would they take partial profits? are they real investors or mere traders, buying at lower prices and waiting for bull season to take profits is trading your portfolio, only traders go for short-term profits. Investors keep holding and adding to their portfolio and are not distracted or attempt to change strategy when their investment starts getting profitable in bull season, it is a better practice to maintain your consistency in your accumulation journey and remain committed to long-term holding than targeting short-term profits.

People can take either partial or total profit after a price move without being a short-term trader or having a short-term focus. long-term investors will also take profits over time as a means of managing risk and preserving their capital. The market is unpredictable, so locking in a portion of your profits will provide you freedom to re-enter the market if you choose, and give you peace of mind as an investor. However, while taking profit along the way is good for your overall investment plan, it is still important to continue to invest in accordance with your long-term investment strategy and accumulate wealth over time.

I disagree with you, people who are inclined to taking profits off their investment from time to time after price moves are traders, they surely have short-term profitability mindset and that is the wrong way to go about your bitcoin investment, taking profits should be highly discouraged at least until the investor reaches over-accumulation stage if at all you want a successful investment. Taking profits slows down the pace at which you are adding to your portfolio and reconfigure the mindset of the investor to that of a trader. What would you be using the money shaved off your investment for? If you had managed your cashflow properly, you should have some funds put down for discretionary consumption, which makes it very baseless that you should keep capping off profits from your portfolio for you to enjoy or attempt preserving your capital in fiat which would eventually depreciate when it is always a better option to allow your portfolio to grow while consistently adding to it and hold for a long-term for a better chance at profitability.

[Baki202]

Using the aggressive approach to buy bitcoin is solely dependent on their discretionary income however not everyone get the luxury to frontload their bitcoin or adopt the aggressive approach to their accumulation and it's fine to work with your financial capability. Bitcoin was designed for everybody and both the poor aren't left out, they can still work with their capacity and investing accordingly to their financial strength provided it's coming from their discretionary income they can invest and hold for long term like every investor, the only persons who would be putting their finance in problem when they invest is those without discritionary income.

There's nothing wrong with someone approaching Bitcoin with the goal of accumulating, which can be done aggressively. This indicates that anyone can do it in any way or amount. Clearly anyone who does this prioritizes having discretionary income. This means that no matter how much income they use they won't encounter any problems. Without discretionary income they still can't do it even with various methods. Accumulating Bitcoin is certainly possible for anyone but not everyone can do it aggressively as it depends on their financial resources. Therefore if you have a small income it's better not to do it aggressively but rather to do it in a way that's easy to understand. Forcing yourself to accumulate by force will ultimately lead to problems.

What are you even saying? I wonder what could possibly be your own definition of investing aggressively, look let me tell that even those that small income and are able to identify or figure their discretionary income they can do it aggressively as little or much as they can without forcing themselves to do more than they should have, anyone can be aggressive in their own kind of way and within their boundaries.

Not only in Bitcoin investment but in any work, you should not be aggressive, because no work is good if you rush. Rather, the work you do aggressively will be wrong in some way or the other, in terms of investment, you are investing in Bitcoin for the long term, so there is no need to rush in this case. Rather, if you invest in Bitcoin by following the DCA method weekly, and patiently maintain it for a long time, then of course your Bitcoin investment will be profitable.

But whenever you invest in Bitcoin aggressively, and in the greed of earning more money, you borrow money and invest in Bitcoin. Then you will face more pressure, as a result, you may face problems with Bitcoin investment. That is why you should never rush in Bitcoin investment, with your optional income, you continue to invest in Bitcoin patiently and keep the investment for a long time.

You should hurry to start Bitcoin. Some new investors decide to start late to gain experience about Bitcoin, but they should start with any size of fund. Rushing to accumulate Bitcoin is not always a good idea, but it is a good idea for some investors. If you have the cash available, buy Bitcoin quickly before its price increases.
You should not rush if you are not disciplined in investing in Bitcoin for the long term. Consider a Bitcoin accumulation period of 4-10 years and be consistent. You should accumulate Bitcoin regularly using DCA method through discretionary income.

The moment you find out about it, then you should know that time is of the essence so making use of the opportunity is one of the best thing that could happen because there ways that you can invest on low funds because that is just one of the was to grow you won't be able to invest the way you want so of the best things you can do is for you to lock in, because you have to be smart when it comes to money usage because a lot if people don't know how this thing works, so when you know the right things to do, then even accumulation should not be a problem.

Because that is why we have even the DCA method but thing is if you are not getting it right then there ia going to be a bigger problem because even as low as the funds can be to start with when it has proper usage then it should not be a problem discretionary income makes it even more flexible because from the beginning a lot of people have a misconception about how they should make investing very easy for them self.

And the goal is totally started clear the goal is accumulation and it has to be very flexible and that is why the engagement I'm DCA and having emergencies funds matters most.

[Grace333]

Yes, investing in Bitcoin is for everyone, but only those who understand proper money management succeed in investing Many people say that it is not possible for them to invest if their income is low, but even people with low incomes can invest in Bitcoin consistently with a long-term plan through proper management. You have made an important point in this regard, whether the investor will invest aggressively or normally, it is entirely up to the investor to do so on the basis of the investor's discretionary income. If investors who have high monthly or weekly income or investors who have high discretionary income buy Bitcoin aggressively, then it is okay for them, but those who have low income as well as low discretionary income, but they have to buy after considering everything and the best way for them would be to buy with understanding of the DCA as well as the position.

An investor doesn't need much knowledge to succeed in bitcoin investment. Bitcoin investment isn't a statistics maths exam that would take you several weeks of preparation before you learn how to solve with precision. Provided folks has discovered that they have discretionary income after meeting their basic need they can invest and continually repeat the process over and over again until they arrive at their investment time. Bitcoin investment is basic irrespective of those terms like reserved fund and emergency however we shouldn't hype the process too much as though you need a professional degree to succeed in bitcoin.

[BluebloodCXVI]

People can take either partial or total profit after a price move without being a short-term trader or having a short-term focus.

So you would suggest a guy take profit from his stash without yet reaching accumulation target first ?. If your goal is long term holding then you have no business scraping for profit because by doing that, you are actually sabotaging your long term position and slowing down your stacking progress which makes it hard for you to hit your accumulation target faster.
Scraping for profit is the mindset of a trader and that’s not what this thread is about. If you haven’t reached accumulation target yet, then your focus should be on stacking rather than selling because that’s what differentiates a trader from an investor.