JJG’s Outline of Bitcoin Investment Ideas

[Joy- maker]

Thinking of profit making in Bitcoin is not bad and it doesn't also disqualified any investors of being a good hodler in Bitcoin, i don't like pretending on what is true, every investors can't engage themselves into any investment that will not be profitable to them, i don't see anything wrong of thinking about the profit you are going to make through out years of investing in Bitcoin continueosly, the only thing i see is bad as a newbie, is when a newbie make use of short term investment instead of a long term investment, and talking about a bad hodler, is when a newbie make use of a short term investment that is when he is not a good Bitcoin hodler, not the other way round, that Investors that their major concern is to make profit from Bitcoin investment are not good hodlers, like you said @ Sobz link.

It is ok to think about profit from your Bitcoin investment, but it depends on how you think at it.  But if I ask,  why did you invest in bitcoin in the first place? did you invest in Bitcoin to grow your money and then take profit within a short period of time? or are you investing in Bitcoin for long term store of value? or do want to protect your money from losing it value? or to diversify? or for financial control and freedom?

Why I don't encourage people to think about profit from their Bitcoin investment is because, Bitcoin is very volatile.  So focusing on profit can sometimes lead to unrealistic expectations and emotional decisions, such as panic selling when Bitcoin price drop, or greed when Bitcoin price is pumping continuously non stop.  As an investor with long term mindset what you should be thinking of are strategies you can use to keep your Bitcoin investment going, not profit.

[suhadi88]

It is ok to think about profit from your Bitcoin investment, but it depends on how you think at it.  But if I ask,  why did you invest in bitcoin in the first place? did you invest in Bitcoin to grow your money and then take profit within a short period of time? or are you investing in Bitcoin for long term store of value? or do want to protect your money from losing it value? or to diversify? or for financial control and freedom?

Wow, those are good opening questions, but my short answer is that we will gain something valuable from our efforts. If we're patient, the results will certainly be different from those that are temporary and unsustainable.

[JayJuanGee]

It is optional to start to sell, and there is no rush.. since if he chooses not to withdraw the bitcoin will keep growing and bitcoin remains a great place to keep money.   Sure there could be some desires to withdraw that can be either price based or time based, and so sometimes withdrawing based on price increases can allow for more ease of conscious if the price falls at a later date.. yet if a person gets to overaccumulation and is already withdrawing regularly, then there might not be any anxiety about being able to withdraw unless there are feelings that the withdraw amount is not enough.

Many long-term holders will agree with you about taking their time when it comes time to sell - for instance, if they feel that they have enough Bitcoin in order to have a good amount accruing interest, but other investors may want to sell at different points in time dependent on their current price or personal preference. Additionally, making regular withdrawals will reduce the amount of psychological issues around Bitcoin.

You may well be making different presumptions than me in terms of other investments that guys might have.  I am not trying to get caught up in discussions of other investments that guys might have, and so a lot of time in this thread, we spend talking about guys working out ways to accumulate bitcoin and to manage cash in order to get to overaccumulation status.

The stories potentially change when guys start to diversify in other assets and start to balance back and forth between other assets, and so I don't see any reason that we need to get derailed into those kinds of discussions in this thread.

Also, at some point guys might start to employ either price based or time based sustainable withdrawal, and I talk about those ideas in my sustainable withdrawal thread.  I don't see what point there is to bring up all kinds of scenarios that likely deviate from this thread, especially when it gets into balancing out with other assets, and guys can do it, but I am not interested in derailing the thread in that direction.

Maybe you want to opens some other thread if you want to discuss various diversification theories around multiple assets.  I am not opposed to those practices, yet I don't want to talk about them in this thread, since it seems to me that a bitcoin first focus is something that is needed, and if guys want to fuck around with various other assets or balancing their bitcoin holdings with various concerns around other assets, they can do that on their own and talk about it in some other place.

To have a successful experience with trading or investing, a trader must have a well-defined strategy to avoid being emotionally influenced to buy/sell at inconvenient times and create additional cycles of buying/selling.

Guys can develop their "well-defined" strategies as they go.  Many guys who are participating in this thread and even the population as a whole seem to be having difficulties getting started in bitcoin and perhaps building their bitcoin holdings for a whole cycle or more.. so I am not interested in fucking around with various confusing strategies, and especially any needs to diversify into any other assets besides bitcoin and cash until a guy gets a good system of building and managing his bitcoin and cash, there seems no reason to dilute his cashflow into other assets or to get distracted.

Surely guys who come to bitcoin and they already have other investments, then they are likely going to include bitcoin into their portfolio and balance their bitcoin position size in accordance with those other assets, yet the truth of the matter is that an overwhelming majority of the population does not have shit for other investments, so they are likely building from scratch rather than starting with a lot of capital to front load their bitcoin investment.. and one of the great things about bitcoin is that none of us need to start with a lot of capital, and if we do have a lot of capital then we may well be able to front load our bitcoin investment and even to arrive at our target accumulation level faster than other guys, yet even if guys front load their investment, I am not going to be suggesting that their hold period is less than 4 years... and so maybe you want to fuck around with hold times that are less than 4 years, and you are more likely a trader rather than an investor, or at least you are getting away from the topic here since an overwhelming majority of normies are not in that kind of a position, so we are largely talking about the various ways of building up bitcoin holdings, and sure maybe some guys might be able to build up their bitcoin holdings faster than other and then have more options that may or may not relate to this thread or even relate to their desires to manage their bitcoin holdings within the (price based and/or time-based) sustainable withdrawal frameworks that I discuss in my sustainable withdrawal thread.

If a person is at overaccumulation status it is optional whether he wants to try to buy back some or all of his sales and get into trading mode.  It would not be necessary to accumulate more, yet sure guys can do what they like once they get to overaccumualtion status they will tend to have more options, yet guys could still end up knocking themselves out of overaccumualtion status if they end up selling too much or maybe even if they  are selling and then buying back and then getting worried that they don't have any money since they used it all to buy back when they did not need to buy back.. and so yeah, guys can still end up screwing up or mismanaging an otherwise good set up.

Individuals reach the overaccumulation phase when they gain some flexibility, but they also have added responsibilities. Decisions can be made to either continue holding or to liquidate and/or trade the position, but if an investor over-manages a position, they are likely to make mistakes in the process of managing the position.

Of course, guys can do whatever the fuck they want, yet this is neither a thread about doing whatever the fuck you want or a thread about completely liquidating out of your bitcoin position, unless maybe age factors or health factors might cause a need to liquidate.

When we are talking about my investment ideas, they are largely meant to be for life and not fucking around with trading, except maybe guys who can't resist trading, they can do up to 10% of the size of their holdings in trading and/or shitcoins.

You might not even understand my own framing of the concept of overaccumulation and why it provides advantages in regards to being able to enter into sustainable withdrawal.

I see littl to no purpose for normies to spend 10 years or more accumulating a bitcoin position and then to sell all of it, unless either age or health reasons or maybe they lose confidence in the ongoing strength of bitcoin's investment thesis.

It seems to me that bitcoin has very strong underlying fundamentals that allow way greater abilities for better conditions of sustainable withdrawal than other assets, and it does not seem logical to do anything to knock oneself out of overaccumulation status once it is reached... even though of course, if a person is 2x 3x or even greater multiples of overaccumulation status, then they have more options in regards to how they manage the overaccumulated amount, including selling it (like you mentioned and to reallocate some or all of that value into other asssets).

Maybe you need an example to better illustrate the idea of overaccumulation?

Let's say for example a guy in his mid 30s came to bitcoin around 10.5 years ago, and he was making around $30k per year, and he had been investing in various traditional assets at about $100 per week (which was around 17% of his income) since around 2006, and so between 2006 an 2016, he had invested right around $50k and it had grown to be about $80k in 2016, and so he felt that he was doing pretty good when he found out about bitcoin.

In 2016, he decided to reallocate right around 25% of his already established investment portfolio into bitcoin, and to continue to invest $100 per week into bitcoin and $50 per week into his old investments (based on his having had gotten a raise to $45k per year).

So then in early 2016, he diverted $100 per week into bitcoin and he also withdrew $20k from his various other investments, and put that $20k into bitcoin.

The first $20k, he put into bitcoin at right around $770 per week for the next 26 weeks from January 1, 2016 to June 30, 2016, and he was able to accumulate right around 40 bitcoin.

Since he was already buying $770 per week since the beginning of January 2016, he decided to start his $100 per week on July 1, 2016, and so in the past almost 10 years, since July 1, 2016, his $100 per week hade resulted in $51k invested and about 9.5 BTC.

So right now he has about 49.5  BTC, and his goal had been to be able to live off of his BTC at $80k per year and to give himself a 7% raise in the dollar amount each year... yet he did not realize that to live off of bitcoin at $80k per year, right now he would only need 13.2212 BTC, and so largely he had overaccumulated by close to 36.3 BTC.. and so he has 36.3 BTC extra beyond his earlier established goals.

The greater the overaccumulation the more options that he has, yet he does not have to knock himself out of overaccumulation status in regards to his bitcoin, since right now 13.2212 would be enough to begin withdrawing at his target rate of $6,666 per month and give himself a 7% raise each year and since it is sustainable, he can do it forever and ever and ever, as long as he does not overly deplete his bitcoin holdings, which he should not have a problem since he has right around 4x more bitcoin than he needs for his target withdrawal rate.

Surely, another option he might choose would be to double or triple his withdrawal rate and he would still have enough of a cushion so that he could monitor that he is not overly depleting the rate that he can sustainably withdraw.  I don't see why such a guy would need more, since if he were to decide to quit his $40k per year job, and then he would choose to withdraw at triple his target (at $240k per year), then I don't see why he would need to be fucking around with other assets or be overly scared about if his bitcoin might go up down or sideways once he started to employ his sustainable withdrawal amounts, whether monthly, quarterly or some other periodic basis that he might consider to be convenient.

Therefore, if an investor sells too much of a position or is fearful of not being in the position and keeps buying back when out of the position, they are reducing the amount of their position and also stressing out. Finding balance between having a good plan that is free of emotion and not overtrading will help to maintain proper setups and allow for continued performance without confusion or loss of expected results.

I don't see what good it does a guy to be fucking around trying to trade any of his bitcoin prior to either reaching overaccumulation status or perhaps alternatively, if he cannot resist temptations to trade (gamble) with his bitcoin, then perhaps he could limit whatever trading that he chooses to do to less than 10% the size of his bitcoin holdings.

You seem way too inclined to want to trade, and you don't even seem to have any clues about my own bitcoin investment ideas that happen to be the topic of this thread.  Maybe if you study my investment ideas you might come up with some better arguments in the event that you continue to believe that fucking around with trading and/or diversifying is a good idea.. or maybe some of those ideas are discretionary and they are not really helpful with the kinds of matters being discussed in this thread.

[ZeroVinsonN]

Therefore, if an investor sells too much of a position or is fearful of not being in the position and keeps buying back when out of the position, they are reducing the amount of their position and also stressing out. Finding balance between having a good plan that is free of emotion and not overtrading will help to maintain proper setups and allow for continued performance without confusion or loss of expected results.

I don't see what good it does a guy to be fucking around trying to trade any of his bitcoin prior to either reaching overaccumulation status or perhaps alternatively, if he cannot resist temptations to trade (gamble) with his bitcoin, then perhaps he could limit whatever trading that he chooses to do to less than 10% the size of his bitcoin holdings.

You seem way too inclined to want to trade, and you don't even seem to have any clues about my own bitcoin investment ideas that happen to be the topic of this thread.  Maybe if you study my investment ideas you might come up with some better arguments in the event that you continue to believe that fucking around with trading and/or diversifying is a good idea.. or maybe some of those ideas are discretionary and they are not really helpful with the kinds of matters being discussed in this thread.

People who want to play with their bitcoin stash shouldn't blame anyone else when everything starts to break down for them, the choice was theirs after all, sometimes people get so desperate to make money that they fall for schemes that on a normal day they will be able to tell that it's worth the effort but once their greed takes over everything thing that promises quick profits becomes the better alternative, they don't care about how realistic it is as long as it comes with the promise of quick profit.
I can't decide for them what they do with their money and neither can you, if they want to fuck around with their bitcoin then the most that can be done is to try and talk them out of it, we can't force them to let go of their greed if they don't want to.

[Charcol]

People should set aside thier emergency funds before proceeding to an investment

It’s better to accumulate both emergency funds and discretionary income simultaneously but if you’re in the early stages of your accumulation phase then you should lean more towards building emergency funds more than investing, something like 60:40. Until you get to a comfortable level where you’re sure that your emergency fund has reached a reasonable amount, then you can flip the scale and lean more towards investing than building emergency funds, something like 70:30 or even 80:20.

You probably have a misunderstanding about emergency fund and discretionary income. Emergency fund is basically a part of your discretionary income. And from this discretionary income, investors build investable funds, savings and emergency fund.

The 60:40 example you gave is not realistic. Because you have given more importance to emergency fund here than investment. This actually weakens Bitcoin savings. We must have an emergency fund. And it takes a normal person 1 year or more to build an emergency fund (equivalent to 3 months of expenses). If someone thinks that I will invest less money and build an emergency fund quickly, then he is delaying the future savings stage under the pretext of keeping cash on hand. What we should generally do is to give more importance to investment considering our cashflow. Since we are talking about investors who are in the initial savings stage here.

[JayJuanGee]

Therefore, if an investor sells too much of a position or is fearful of not being in the position and keeps buying back when out of the position, they are reducing the amount of their position and also stressing out. Finding balance between having a good plan that is free of emotion and not overtrading will help to maintain proper setups and allow for continued performance without confusion or loss of expected results.

I don't see what good it does a guy to be fucking around trying to trade any of his bitcoin prior to either reaching overaccumulation status or perhaps alternatively, if he cannot resist temptations to trade (gamble) with his bitcoin, then perhaps he could limit whatever trading that he chooses to do to less than 10% the size of his bitcoin holdings.

You seem way too inclined to want to trade, and you don't even seem to have any clues about my own bitcoin investment ideas that happen to be the topic of this thread.  Maybe if you study my investment ideas you might come up with some better arguments in the event that you continue to believe that fucking around with trading and/or diversifying is a good idea.. or maybe some of those ideas are discretionary and they are not really helpful with the kinds of matters being discussed in this thread.

People who want to play with their bitcoin stash shouldn't blame anyone else when everything starts to break down for them, the choice was theirs after all, sometimes people get so desperate to make money that they fall for schemes that on a normal day they will be able to tell that it's worth the effort but once their greed takes over everything thing that promises quick profits becomes the better alternative, they don't care about how realistic it is as long as it comes with the promise of quick profit.
I can't decide for them what they do with their money and neither can you, if they want to fuck around with their bitcoin then the most that can be done is to try and talk them out of it, we can't force them to let go of their greed if they don't want to.

We are still sharing ideas in a public thread, so if guys are presenting ideas that seem to be counter-productive to the kinds of discussions that we are having in this thread, then it seems to be necessary to point out some of the areas in which their comments may well lead other guys down a bad path.

WIYO1 had been hardly giving any context for several of his comment, arguments and suggestions, and he seems to have not read this thread or taken into account that so many guys who are participating in this thread seem to be struggling to do both bitcoin investment and their cashflow management, and he comes in presuming that everyone has some capacity to both lump sum invest into bitcoin and even presuming that bitcoin is one of many quasi-liquid assets that guys hold, as if we were either managing the holdings of a financial advisor or that we were bound by the same guiding principles that financial advisors seem to advise to follow.. ..

and surely there are a lot of aspects of bitcoin that have historically been in tension with financial advisors, and over the past 15-ish years, and perhaps longer, there are all kinds of guys who would have been fucked if they listened to financial advisors about bitcoin and/or how to think about bitcoin allocations and/or portfolio management that involves bitcoin.  There might be more financial advisors coming to bitcoin in recent times, yet I doubt it, since they probably are pushing clients into various paper bitcoin products that are inferior to bitcoin, and so there aren't too many financial advisors who are very good at actually helping bitcoiners, to the extent that some of the financial advisor ideas are going to even be helpful for very many bitcoiners who might not have a lot of money and who are building their bitcoin holdings. Surely, once a person has several years of income invested into bitcoin and/or in other financial products, the financial advisor might be helpful in pointing out some tools that the bitcoiner might be benefitted in using, yet the plight of normies building up their bitcoin holdings tends to not be as much helped by the financial advisor (planner) or guys like WIYO1 who are spouting out various ideas that seem to be coming from a financial advisor/planner.

[In_cu_bent]

invest without having to trouble themselves meaning that today the income they have, for example is 50%, of course the person will do it with 30% to accumulate Bitcoin while the remaining 20% ​​is only for needs that must be spent meaning that every time they accumulate the person must see how much income they have during the week and likewise sometimes they have more sources of income than what we mentioned earlier they must also do it in a way that does not make it difficult for someone to live their life

I think that it's absolutely wrong to be investing in Bitcoin like that because you are definitely going to run into trouble doing it that way. You have to take proper care of your basic needs first, then any money that is left, which is your discretionary income is what you should be investing with, not investing first before taking care of your basic needs with what is left. It's wrong and you will fall into trouble in no distance time,  which will compel you to sell off your holdings just to address some of your basic needs that was not addressed before investing, so it's more important to sort of your basic needs first, before thinking of investing with the discretionary income left.

Walking into investment without taking proper care of our basic needs and most important things then that investment journey will be so ruined because no matter the circumstances definitely the investor would surely ran back to their investment anytime they face little issues or any important things come up because they fail to handle them before investing.
 That why it always advisable to settle our needs before thinking of investing so we won’t ran to our investment anytime we face an emergency. Let settle our needs and set up a discretionary income to begin our journey of bitcoin investment for safe and sustainable investments.

I agree with your points, and this is exactly where some folks expecially the newbies are struggling. If someone comes into bitcoin without settling thier basic needs, thier investment is already at risk or likely fail. Because any unexpected expenses that cones will likely push them to sell thier bitcoin very early or prematurely, not because they want, but because they wouldn't be any other options. It would be a total losses and frustrating. However,  that’s why proper financial planning is very paramount.  People should set aside thier emergency funds before proceeding to an investment, that actually helps one to stay calm and avoid tempered thier bitcoin investment when things happen.

Additionally, investing only with your discretionary income, that the money you can afford to leave without touching it for long-term. When people truly organize thier finances and thier essential needs, they won't be unnecessary pressure and distraction on thier bitcoin investment, the key points are stay disciplined,consistent, patient and focus on long-term accumulation growth, so sorting out all these silly expenses actually make bitcoin more sustainable and safer.

For a  beginner, setting aside an emergency fund should be secondary, the primary aim is to start investing then you can figure out an emergency fund along the road except you already have enough cash flow, and even if a beginner has enough cash flow, he might be inexperienced on how to split his income such that no circumstances will lead him to selling when he hasn't fulfilled his height of accumulation. We should not assume that a beginner should know about setting an emergency fund, it is not necessary at the start of his investment.

[Barikui1]

For a  beginner, setting aside an emergency fund should be secondary, the primary aim is to start investing then you can figure out an emergency fund along the road except you already have enough cash flow, and even if a beginner has enough cash flow, he might be inexperienced on how to split his income such that no circumstances will lead him to selling when he hasn't fulfilled his height of accumulation. We should not assume that a beginner should know about setting an emergency fund, it is not necessary at the start of his investment.

I agree with you that a beginner might not be knowledgeable enough to know that he needs an emergency funds in place to safeguard his Bitcoin investment from any real life emergencies from the start, but I believe that if Bitcoin investment is introduced to a newbie by an experience investor that knows what it takes for your bitcoin investment to be successful, he would be told that emergency funds is what makes you develop a strong holding hands, and  you can easily be putting aside your emergency funds in place from your discretionary income, while accumulating your Bitcoin weekly or monthly, because the existence of your emergency funds is the only reason your Bitcoin investment will not be tempered with, when real life emergencies struck.

[Juse14]

This is a very appropriate answer to be understood by all parties because every person or party who wants to start investing with a healthy mindset will certainly invest without having to trouble themselves meaning that today the income they have, for example is 50%, of course the person will do it with 30% to accumulate Bitcoin while the remaining 20% ​​is only for needs that must be spent.

You don’t allocate money to buy bitcoin without first figuring out how much will be your discretionary income. It is from your discretionary income that you will know how much that should be invested in bitcoin. Don’t make the mistake of investing in bitcoin without making provision of your basic family needs. If you rush and invest 30% of your salary and later you find out that your discretionary income isn’t up to that 30% you will have trouble meeting up with family demands. The right approach is always to invest from discretionary income.

I'm not brave enough to prioritize investment first, then neglect family needs especially with a small percentage that I don't think it will be enough within a month.
The ideal for me is, prioritize the needs first then the rest will be invested in bitcoin with a predetermined, say 20% and the rest is the need to fulfill other things.

It's better if there is a side business that can help increase your DCA investment, for example from 20% increased to 30% because you have a side project that can produce then that's better.
I still prioritize DCA strategy investment at least once a month to do dollars to bitcoin.

[pusaka]

and surely there are a lot of aspects of bitcoin that have historically been in tension with financial advisors, and over the past 15-ish years, and perhaps longer, there are all kinds of guys who would have been fucked if they listened to financial advisors about bitcoin and/or how to think about bitcoin allocations and/or portfolio management that involves bitcoin.  There might be more financial advisors coming to bitcoin in recent times, yet I doubt it, since they probably are pushing clients into various paper bitcoin products that are inferior to bitcoin, and so there aren't too many financial advisors who are very good at actually helping bitcoiners, to the extent that some of the financial advisor ideas are going to even be helpful for very many bitcoiners who might not have a lot of money and who are building their bitcoin holdings. Surely, once a person has several years of income invested into bitcoin and/or in other financial products, the financial advisor might be helpful in pointing out some tools that the bitcoiner might be benefitted in using, yet the plight of normies building up their bitcoin holdings tends to not be as much helped by the financial advisor (planner) or guys like WIYO1 who are spouting out various ideas that seem to be coming from a financial advisor/planner.

I agree with you about current financial advisors, especially those venturing into the Bitcoin space. I now see that it's less authentic when someone gives advice or acts as a financial advisor in the Bitcoin space than it used to be. In the past, Bitcoin advisors genuinely provided education. They not only advised people interested in Bitcoin, but also challenged those who were against it. Now, things are easier because awareness of Bitcoin's potential is increasing, and there aren't as many anti-Bitcoin advocates as there used to be. So, people are more trusting these days, especially when the speaker is an influencer who flexes on social media.

They also sometimes have a specific goal, whether it's promoting their product or promoting something they're affiliated with. Honestly, in my country, many people are still uneducated about finance, so they easily follow someone who is perceived as wealthy.

I've noticed a lot of unfamiliar faces talking about Bitcoin. I don't have a problem with it, but it makes me doubt and question the motives behind it. And some of them are actually affiliated with certain products. It's even easier to track someone's track record, which can be a consideration. I know that a person's thinking can evolve over time. However, from there, we can judge whether they're purely providing education or whether they're pursuing something else.

[NewRevelation]

If someone thinks that I will invest less money and build an emergency fund quickly, then he is delaying the future savings stage under the pretext of keeping cash on hand. What we should generally do is to give more importance to investment considering our cashflow. Since we are talking about investors who are in the initial savings stage here.

One thing that is important to consider here is your cash flow and/or income. Because your availability discretionary determines to a great level what goes into your investment for weekly or monthly buys and also the amount for building an emergency funds and other funds for back up.

Of course, with your available discretionary, there should be priority on your investment, because the little you add into your investment in accumulation amount above the emergency funds/reserve, it grows it gradually. Prioritisng building your emergency funds and other back up funds over your regular DCA accumulation will slow your overall accumulation down, and this isn't good enough. While we try to manage our available discretionary, trying to suit it to our weekly or monthly accumulation and building back up funds, it's better we prioritice our investment a little bit above the personal savings

[Rockson1]

I'm not brave enough to prioritize investment first, then neglect family needs especially with a small percentage that I don't think it will be enough within a month.
The ideal for me is, prioritize the needs first then the rest will be invested in bitcoin with a predetermined, say 20% and the rest is the need to fulfill other things.

It's better if there is a side business that can help increase your DCA investment, for example from 20% increased to 30% because you have a side project that can produce then that's better.
I still prioritize DCA strategy investment at least once a month to do dollars to bitcoin.

Let's not get this things wrong, no one is saying that we should not Carter for our basic needs first, if that is the case what is left over funds, they are the amount left after our essential needs are attended to,.so it means what we all need as investor is our discreationary income to invest in Bitcoin which is even nothing if you ask me, there is something you should know, there is no income that we can't get discreationary income from, I do not think anyone should be making excuses with that, all we need is to figure out that discreationary income from whatever income we have because it is there, it is just about financial management that we need to get this done.
Even though I agree with you that having multiple source of income can help in increasing our discreationary income that helps in making our DCA very much effective and consistent, if we can not figure out discreationary income from small amount, we might also find it difficult when we have a bigger amount, to me there should not be an excuse as far we have a source or what we can get our discreationary income from.

[Jostern]

This is a very appropriate answer to be understood by all parties because every person or party who wants to start investing with a healthy mindset will certainly invest without having to trouble themselves meaning that today the income they have, for example is 50%, of course the person will do it with 30% to accumulate Bitcoin while the remaining 20% ​​is only for needs that must be spent.

You don’t allocate money to buy bitcoin without first figuring out how much will be your discretionary income. It is from your discretionary income that you will know how much that should be invested in bitcoin. Don’t make the mistake of investing in bitcoin without making provision of your basic family needs. If you rush and invest 30% of your salary and later you find out that your discretionary income isn’t up to that 30% you will have trouble meeting up with family demands. The right approach is always to invest from discretionary income.

I'm not brave enough to prioritize investment first, then neglect family needs especially with a small percentage that I don't think it will be enough within a month.
The ideal for me is, prioritize the needs first then the rest will be invested in bitcoin with a predetermined, say 20% and the rest is the need to fulfill other things.

It's better if there is a side business that can help increase your DCA investment, for example from 20% increased to 30% because you have a side project that can produce then that's better.
I still prioritize DCA strategy investment at least once a month to do dollars to bitcoin.

You don’t have to be brave enough to be investing in Bitcoin, all you need to do is decide if you want to invest in Bitcoin, and you don’t have to prioritize anything as such, so you should know you’re investing from your discretionary income, by investing in your discretionary income then there is a sense of understanding that it’s your leftover money after taking care of your expenses and whatever needs that you have to take care of then whenever that is left over then you can decide to invest that in Bitcoin.

However sometimes as an investor you might not really get a complete figure of amount that you will invest in every week or monthly basis, for example, you decided that you will be investing $100 on a weekly basis or monthly basis, sometimes you will have a situation that you have more bills and other expenses might increase, you might still end up having $60 or $50, so it’s not always constant on the figures, but whatever discretionary income you are left with and you feel comfortable to buy bitcoin, go ahead and buy the bitcoin.

The most important thing is that you’re buying and accumulating bitcoin, it doesn’t matter if you have enough as people may say, working on other cashflows would also be an added bonus that helps to increase your figure amount of buying on a weekly or monthly basis.

[Son Of Blockchain (SOB)]

Thinking of profit making in Bitcoin is not bad and it doesn't also disqualified any investors of being a good hodler in Bitcoin, i don't like pretending on what is true, every investors can't engage themselves into any investment that will not be profitable to them, i don't see anything wrong of thinking about the profit you are going to make through out years of investing in Bitcoin continueosly, the only thing i see is bad as a newbie, is when a newbie make use of short term investment instead of a long term investment, and talking about a bad hodler, is when a newbie make use of a short term investment that is when he is not a good Bitcoin hodler, not the other way round, that Investors that their major concern is to make profit from Bitcoin investment are not good hodlers, like you said @ Sobz link.

It is ok to think about profit from your Bitcoin investment, but it depends on how you think at it.  But if I ask,  why did you invest in bitcoin in the first place? did you invest in Bitcoin to grow your money and then take profit within a short period of time? or are you investing in Bitcoin for long term store of value? or do want to protect your money from losing it value? or to diversify? or for financial control and freedom?

Why I don't encourage people to think about profit from their Bitcoin investment is because, Bitcoin is very volatile.  So focusing on profit can sometimes lead to unrealistic expectations and emotional decisions, such as panic selling when Bitcoin price drop, or greed when Bitcoin price is pumping continuously non stop.  As an investor with long term mindset what you should be thinking of are strategies you can use to keep your Bitcoin investment going, not profit.

Although there are people who buy and take profits in a short-term but they're not investors but traders, real investors have patience to hold longer and doesn't have a short-term mindset which is attributed to a trader. There are many people who do that and still call themselves investors but in reality they're traders cause it only a traders that buy and sell in a short term.
 At the end they'll cone up with excuses like everyone can do whatever they want with their money or investment but then how is it an investment when the person can't even hold longer enough to reach their target. I support your statement bro, profit shouldn't be the first priority of an investor so the person doesn't take wrong decisions out of emotions,  an investor is meant to focus on accumulating to reach their target.

[DubemIfedigbo001]

I agree with your points, and this is exactly where some folks expecially the newbies are struggling. If someone comes into bitcoin without settling thier basic needs, thier investment is already at risk or likely fail. Because any unexpected expenses that cones will likely push them to sell thier bitcoin very early or prematurely, not because they want, but because they wouldn't be any other options. It would be a total losses and frustrating. However,  that’s why proper financial planning is very paramount.  People should set aside thier emergency funds before proceeding to an investment, that actually helps one to stay calm and avoid tempered thier bitcoin investment when things happen.

Additionally, investing only with your discretionary income, that the money you can afford to leave without touching it for long-term. When people truly organize thier finances and thier essential needs, they won't be unnecessary pressure and distraction on thier bitcoin investment, the key points are stay disciplined,consistent, patient and focus on long-term accumulation growth, so sorting out all these silly expenses actually make bitcoin more sustainable and safer.

For a  beginner, setting aside an emergency fund should be secondary, the primary aim is to start investing then you can figure out an emergency fund along the road except you already have enough cash flow, and even if a beginner has enough cash flow, he might be inexperienced on how to split his income such that no circumstances will lead him to selling when he hasn't fulfilled his height of accumulation. We should not assume that a beginner should know about setting an emergency fund, it is not necessary at the start of his investment.

An investor may come into bitcoin without much experience and its okay since he's new, he would continue learning and understanding the importance of safeguarding their investments with emergency funds as they progress in their accumulation journey. The emergency funds is very important since it offers your investment protection in the face of an emergency and the new investor would come across this knowledge soon if he's committed to improving his knowledge about holding bitcoin for the long term, he would see it mentioned and its importance stressed in one or more discussions in any bitcoin discussion platform just like this forum.
Setting up your emergency funds in not necessarily a requirements to start and a beginner may be unaware of it while starting, but it becomes very necessary as you continue buying and holding bitcoin so that your portfolio would not be left vulnerable and so the new investors needs to set one up ASAP he learns about it and we can only hope that lack of it have not hurt his portfolio very badly before he learned about it's importance.

[Showlove01]

invest without having to trouble themselves meaning that today the income they have, for example is 50%, of course the person will do it with 30% to accumulate Bitcoin while the remaining 20% ​​is only for needs that must be spent meaning that every time they accumulate the person must see how much income they have during the week and likewise sometimes they have more sources of income than what we mentioned earlier they must also do it in a way that does not make it difficult for someone to live their life

I think that it's absolutely wrong to be investing in Bitcoin like that because you are definitely going to run into trouble doing it that way. You have to take proper care of your basic needs first, then any money that is left, which is your discretionary income is what you should be investing with, not investing first before taking care of your basic needs with what is left. It's wrong and you will fall into trouble in no distance time,  which will compel you to sell off your holdings just to address some of your basic needs that was not addressed before investing, so it's more important to sort of your basic needs first, before thinking of investing with the discretionary income left.

Walking into investment without taking proper care of our basic needs and most important things then that investment journey will be so ruined because no matter the circumstances definitely the investor would surely ran back to their investment anytime they face little issues or any important things come up because they fail to handle them before investing.
 That why it always advisable to settle our needs before thinking of investing so we won’t ran to our investment anytime we face an emergency. Let settle our needs and set up a discretionary income to begin our journey of bitcoin investment for safe and sustainable investments.

I agree with your points, and this is exactly where some folks expecially the newbies are struggling. If someone comes into bitcoin without settling thier basic needs, thier investment is already at risk or likely fail. Because any unexpected expenses that cones will likely push them to sell thier bitcoin very early or prematurely, not because they want, but because they wouldn't be any other options. It would be a total losses and frustrating. However,  that’s why proper financial planning is very paramount.  People should set aside thier emergency funds before proceeding to an investment, that actually helps one to stay calm and avoid tempered thier bitcoin investment when things happen.

Additionally, investing only with your discretionary income, that the money you can afford to leave without touching it for long-term. When people truly organize thier finances and thier essential needs, they won't be unnecessary pressure and distraction on thier bitcoin investment, the key points are stay disciplined,consistent, patient and focus on long-term accumulation growth, so sorting out all these silly expenses actually make bitcoin more sustainable and safer.

For a  beginner, setting aside an emergency fund should be secondary, the primary aim is to start investing then you can figure out an emergency fund along the road except you already have enough cash flow, and even if a beginner has enough cash flow, he might be inexperienced on how to split his income such that no circumstances will lead him to selling when he hasn't fulfilled his height of accumulation. We should not assume that a beginner should know about setting an emergency fund, it is not necessary at the start of his investment.

The inexperience on how to sort out their funds falls under lack of management skill and that is why it is very important to have a good management skill because it is among the basic knowledge we always advise newbie or investors to have before venturing into Bitcoin investment so they won't use money meant for expenses to accumulate Bitcoin ( mismanagement). Sometimes some folks don't know how important and relevant good financial management skill is untill they fall prey of this.

[Bright0515]

I'm not brave enough to prioritize investment first, then neglect family needs especially with a small percentage that I don't think it will be enough within a month.
The ideal for me is, prioritize the needs first then the rest will be invested in bitcoin with a predetermined, say 20% and the rest is the need to fulfill other things.

The truth of the matter is that if we always put needs all the time there's a higher chances that we might remain where we are forever without achieving anything reasonable in live. Actually there's no doubt that family needs shouldn't come first but what I'm just trying to say here is that at some point we need to make a better decision so that we can secure our future. Image you are receiving $500 money and your expenses are still $500, there's no way you can not squeeze out even as low as 10 - $15 from it. However, even though it won't be possible, you should at least create our other side hustle opportunities to earn more money, let's say your little side hustle can give you as low as $20 weekly you can DCA with $10 and put back the remaining $10 into the hustle to grow it.
What I'm just trying to say here is that, most times prioritizing needs will make probably keep us the same position, because we neglect the importance of investment and put all money we earn on our needs and bills instead of thinking of a way to reduce the bills and our needs then start up and investment (or create a side hustle).
For the fact that everything can't be 100% perfect makes it very clear that if we keep on waiting to make things right based on prioritizing our needs all the time, what will always happen is that we will keep on procrastinating (postpone) time to start investing on Bitcoin. The simple truth is that it an investor keeps living like that there won't be a day the person will ever get spare money to start with.

It's better if there is a side business that can help increase your DCA investment, for example from 20% increased to 30% because you have a side project that can produce then that's better.

If you haven't started, there's no way you can increase DCA'ing amount, that's why I believe the most important thing is getting started when you have the spare money for it. You don't need to be ready for it, what you need is basic knowledge, buy with your discretionary income, accumulate and hodl for a long period of time. You must not start with a huge amount of money. As a beginner if it's even safer to start with small amount of money so that you can understand gradually as you keep on accumulating more Bitcoin into your portfolio.
The bold part of statement sound more like you are trying to say that people should have a side hustle before they start investing into Bitcoin, which is not supposed to be so because what's important is buying Bitcoin through your discretionary income consistently, you can get a side hustle in the future if you have the opportunities to do so.

[Sim_card]

The inexperience on how to sort out their funds falls under lack of management skill and that is why it is very important to have a good management skill because it is among the basic knowledge we always advise newbie or investors to have before venturing into Bitcoin investment so they won't use money meant for expenses to accumulate Bitcoin ( mismanagement). Sometimes some folks don't know how important and relevant good financial management skill is untill they fall prey of this.

It's not a must for a brand new investor to have a good financial management skills before he can start his bitcoin investment. What a brand new investor needs is to figure out his discretionary income and common sense in order for him to start his bitcoin investment.

After he have started his bitcoin investment, he can study his financial situation and make adjustments in it so that, he can be able to buy bitcoin weekly with the right discretionary income.

As he continues buying, he will reshapen his spending and gradually, learn how to manage his cash inflow so that, he will use the right amount of money for the right purposes. This is why I love DCA because it helps discipline anyone who is using it because consistent and persistent DCA overtime will become a habit to him.

 Financial management is good for you to achieve your bitcoin goal but not a must in the beginning of your bitcoin investment so that, you don't delay leaving the no coiner zone and become a low coiner. In bitcoin investment learning is a continuous process as you are investing.

[New Judgement]

I'm not brave enough to prioritize investment first, then neglect family needs especially with a small percentage that I don't think it will be enough within a month.
The ideal for me is, prioritize the needs first then the rest will be invested in bitcoin with a predetermined, say 20% and the rest is the need to fulfill other things.

It's better if there is a side business that can help increase your DCA investment, for example from 20% increased to 30% because you have a side project that can produce then that's better.
I still prioritize DCA strategy investment at least once a month to do dollars to bitcoin.

there is no income that we can't get discretionary income from, I do not think anyone should be making excuses with that, all we need is to figure out that discretionary income from whatever income we have because it is there,

It is not true, it all depends on the amount you earn and the level of essential family needs that you have to provide at that particular time that will determine if you will have discretionary income left from available money. Some income are just so small that it can just solve your immediate household needs, and by the time you finish making those essential family expenditures you find out that you have nothing left, so at that moment you are left with no discretionary income. Two major factor that determines if you will have discretionary income is the level of your essential household needs and size of income.

if we can not figure out discretionary income from small amount, we might also find it difficult when we have a bigger amount,

I don’t agree with this, let’s assume you earn an amount that is just enough to carter for your family needs, and you barely have discretionary income after expenditures, and you are good and keep living your life hoping for a change, the next month you get a promotion in your work place and suddenly you start earning double of your previous salary. At that moment you will see that you won’t struggle to have discretionary because one part will go into solving your family needs and the other part will remain as your discretionary income. When your income is above your family essentials needs, discretionary income will remain without any struggles.

[cocadalcan]

The inexperience on how to sort out their funds falls under lack of management skill and that is why it is very important to have a good management skill because it is among the basic knowledge we always advise newbie or investors to have before venturing into Bitcoin investment so they won't use money meant for expenses to accumulate Bitcoin ( mismanagement). Sometimes some folks don't know how important and relevant good financial management skill is untill they fall prey of this.

It's not a must for a brand new investor to have a good financial management skills before he can start his bitcoin investment. What a brand new investor needs is to figure out his discretionary income and common sense in order for him to start his bitcoin investment.

After he have started his bitcoin investment, he can study his financial situation and make adjustments in it so that, he can be able to buy bitcoin weekly with the right discretionary income.

As he continues buying, he will reshapen his spending and gradually, learn how to manage his cash inflow so that, he will use the right amount of money for the right purposes. This is why I love DCA because it helps discipline anyone who is using it because consistent and persistent DCA overtime will become a habit to him.

 Financial management is good for you to achieve your bitcoin goal but not a must in the beginning of your bitcoin investment so that, you don't delay leaving the no coiner zone and become a low coiner. In bitcoin investment learning is a continuous process as you are investing.

Of course, I agree with you. To start accumulation Bitcoin, we need basic knowledge about investments and a discretionary income. A new investor tries to make the preparation for starting Bitcoin very grand. They think that they are starting a special investment and the size of their invested fund should be large. But you definitely need to start accumulation Bitcoin through any size fund without any reason.

Managing the cash flow that will be generated from your discretionary income may not seem easy at first but with practice, you will gradually become a good manager of Bitcoin investment.

As you accumulate Bitcoin regularly you will be able to maintain control over your expenses and analysis how to accumulate more Bitcoin from a larger part of your discretionary income. This analysis will gradually make you experienced and will keep you consistent in accumulation Bitcoin in the long term. You will not be a good investment manager in the beginning, you need to practice regularly and be disciplined.