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It's not neglecting, but when basic knowledge wants to cause delay in investing then it will have to be skipped for a while because nothing should stop you from investing as long as you have discretionary income available.
I think you need to understand that basic knowledge is important but nothing is as important as buying Bitcoin so no matter what it is once you have discretionary income available you have to hold whatever it is and invest. Don't stop investing because you want to learn about self custody and wallet security. It's not necessary, you can always start by storing you bitcoins in an exchange until you are able to understand everything about wallet, it's even more convenient for beginners at first but they shouldn't store Bitcoin in exchange for a long time. Learning can always be done alongside investing.
I agree with you to the extent that you are proclaiming that some things are not basic nor required, such as the need to self-custody coins or to learn about self-custody prior to getting started investing in bitcoin. I also agree with you that the most important thing for a newbie is to determine whether he has discretionary funds available that he believes is sufficient to get started investing in bitcoin and he can figure out what he needs to learn as he goes in his bitcoin investment.
I don't really agree with your attempted suggestion that guys cannot decide to hold bitcoin on exchanges, even though surely any of us who spent time learning about bitcoin realize that self-custodying bitcoin is superior as compared with holding bitcoin through third parties, such as exchanges, yet I would also suggest that guys have to figure out these ideas related to self-custody and bitcoin key management for themselves, and even if many of us already existing bitcoiners might prefer that they come to the same conclusions about the superiority of self-custody, we still need to be careful in terms of our own imposition of our values on them, even if we might not consider those who hold bitcoin on exchanges and who hold paper bitcoin derivative products as true bitcoiners, yet it still could take some time before some newbies are able to recognize and appreciate the difference between holding private bitcoin keys and not holding them.
Well you made a good point and I guess my I didn't put out my point clearly but I wasn't saying that using exchanges is totally wrong. I was trying to say that beginners can always start to store their Bitcoins on exchanges but shouldn't hold on exchange for too long, my point was so they don't start to think it's totally safe to store their Bitcoins on exchanges throughout their investment time. they need to be aware of the risks of using a third party platform.
Sure. There are a lot of guys who are dumb, and there are a lot of guys who will ONLY cursorarily explore whether and how to self-custody coins.
There will be some guys who are technically capable of self-custodying, yet still choose not to.
Bitcoin is better off if more normies self-custody their coins and even if they use their coins to transact with each other, yet bitcoin still does not require them to do so, and they have to come to their own conclusions in regards to whether they want to self-custody and to figure out how to do it.
Yes.. self-custody is better... yet guys taking responsibility is a good thing too.. .and guys making their own choices is good too.
There actually might be some guys who are quite challenged in regards to self-custody, yet are you saying that they still need to both learn how to do it and to do it? They might get burned on the exchange, yet they also have to decide for themselves the trade-offs and figure out the risks.
You said it rightly and I agree with you, everyone has to be allowed to choose for themselves and gradually understand how important self custody is. Pressuring beginners into self custody immediately is wrong and self custody shouldn't be imposed on beginners rather they should be allowed to gradually understand it with time. As they gain more experience they will be able to know if they want full control of their Bitcoin or not.
Ultimately some folks are going to get screwed from 3rd party custody, and many folks might not even realize that part of the reason so many folks got screwed in the FTX matter is because they failed/refused to take self-custody, and then FTX only had around 1 out of 1,000 (perhaps even less) of the BTC they proclaimed to have had... They were also printing make believe tokens called FTT (that are still being sold on the market), and surely those tokens were not really backed by anything tangible, either... but billions and billions of dollars worth of value had flowed into that exchange in a relatively short period of time, and so many people bragged about how easy their interface was to use...so yeah.. a lot of people can get screwed, and even rich and famous people, institutions, and even pensioners who relied upon their pension administrators to be managing their pensions without devolving into gambling.
Over and over, there are thoughts that normies would learn their lessons, yet they continue to trust 3rd parties and even hold their value in such products that are not even bitcoin, but instead derivatives of bitcoin, yet at the same time, the power of bitcoin comes from self-custody and abilities to transact directly with bitcoin, yet so many of us do not transact directly with bitcoin and don't even know how to do it or the difference between a 3rd party custodial app and the real bitcoin... yet we cannot force individuals into self-custody even if more and more normies self-custodying bitcoin and transacting in bitcoin seems best for them and also best for bitcoin... yet governments, institutions and status quo rich folks do not want normies holding their own coins and/or directly transacting in their own coins so they create obstacles and disincentives that each of us has to figure out and overcome if we are going to self-custody a decent amount (perhaps a majority or even higher) of our coins.
Self-custody and transacting directly in bitcoin is an ongoing dilemma that is best for each of us, yet we still cannot proclaim that normie newbies or even more experienced normies "have to" employ such self custody.
Even though it is important to get started investing in bitcoin as soon as possible, it makes little to no sense to start out with absolutely no emergency funds (back up funds).
At least some back up funds need to be present, otherwise a person cannot be sure that he is not investing into bitcoin with non-discretionary funds. One of the requirements of bitcoin investing is to use discretionary funds - and don't be making dumb mistakes that relate to trading or gambling.. especially since investment in bitcoin should be considered to be 4-10 years or longer, even if in the beginning a newbie might not be ready, willing or able to establish his investment timeline to be 4-10 years or longer.
I agree with you, timing the market at times do matters but but some silly mistakes many of this new investors make is by not applying good safety to their investments they just walk in, into bitcoin investment with no proper safety at all. Let secure most important funds down first before walking into investing, it not just about starting early, Are we secured?
The 3 months of basic expenses for emergency funds is absolutely a smart idea
Holy fucking shit Big Dirams!!!
I said that guys have to assure that they have discretionary funds and make sure that they are not investing beyond their discretionary funds, so that they have to make sure that they have at least a minimum amount of back up funds so that they do not accidently spend beyond their discretionary funds...
And fore some reason you consider 3 months of back up funds to be some kind of a bare essence starting amount for back up funds?
If someone has absolutely no back up funds but they have discretionary funds, it could take them a year or two before they are even able to accumulate 3 months of back up funds, so you think that it is even close to reasonable to wait to invest in bitcoin while they "shore up" their back up funds?
Even though each of us has to figure out some balance, your level of belief in holding and/or building up fiat comes off as ridiculously high and to keep poor people having fun staying poor. Poor people are never going to even build up their cash to 3 months of their expenses without some kind of smart strategy that might involve something like bitcoin and also focusing on bitcoin building and/or cashflow management strengthening that likely would be something that would be most plausibly built together, especially for any guys who might be ongoingly struggling with discretionary funds.
and with such approach we can see the journey would be less traumatizing and easily we can keep up with the constant accumulation because no more emergency that will pop up and won’t get sort out.
You are overly emphasizing back up funds, and my own history emphasizes getting started in bitcoin as soon as the newbie can determine that he has discretionary funds that he is able to invest for 4-10 years or longer.
Starting investing without options for emergency funds can be very risky but when we get it set aside then instantly it guide us from any unforeseen circumstances and also it save us a lot fortune by not seeing our holdings as an option to sell while investing.
Your emphasis is different from mine, since I was criticizing those who think that they can invest in bitcoin with absolutely zero back up funds, and you come in and suggest the opposite, including implying that there is a need for 3-ish months of expenses.
For sure, I have so many posts that suggest that bitcoin and back up funds can be built at the same time, yet some guys had wrongly interpreted my own view to suggest that emergency funds are not needed.. and then you are taking it in the opposite direction to be proclaiming 3 months of expenses are preferred.
However the best long term approach is by long term holdings when we stay disciplined and hope for a 4-10 years of holding. That really brings much sustaining and sufficient value.
Considering getting started investing in bitcoin is also important as soon as a person has determined that he has discretionary funds.. so I tend to presume that a lot of normie newbies who have discretionary funds already tend to have some level of cash cushion that might be 2-6 weeks of their expenses depending on where-ever their starting point might be at the time that they first start to consider investing into bitcoin.... so I am tending to presume that an overwhelming majority of normie newbies are already coming to bitcoin with some level of cash in a kind of cash cushion or a kind of back up fund that they tend to try to maintain in their normal way of managing their income/expenses so that they do not find themself's in a position of completely running out of money before their next paycheck.
My point regarding guys who might have absolutely no back up funds is not to proclaim that they cannot get started investing in bitcoin (as you seem to want to interpret my prior words in that way), but instead to suggest a practical way forward for the one's without any extra funds would be to build up their back up funds and their bitcoin investing at the same time.
Of course, the ones without any back up funds can figure out their ratios of how much they want to put into bitcoin investing and how much they want to put into their back up funds, yet if they are determining that they want to get started investing in bitcoin in a relatively prompt timeline, and they already have a practice of not keeping back up funds, I am NOT telling them to either not invest into bitcoin or your seemingly dumbass proclamation that they should start to build a backup fund up to 3 months first (which may well take them a year to accomplish that level of ridiculous stalling), but instead suggesting that the newbie without back up funds can still start out investing into bitcoin as soon as possible and to simultaneously build their back up funds at some reasonable level of similarity to the amount that they are putting into bitcoin..
And sure, like I already mentioned, the newbie without much if any back up funds can balance how much of their discretionary funds to allocate to each of the three categories and whether they want to bias themselves in one direction (such as emphasizing bitcoin) or another (such as emphasizing their back up funds).
At the same time, I think as a default position, the newbie bitcoiner without back up funds and with discretionary funds should at least be considering the three categories of allocating their discretionary funds and perhaps putting 1/3 in each of the three categories of 1) invest, 2) save and 3) discretionarily consume..
Of course, rebalance the amounts that the newbie puts into each category within their own preferences and priorities that might not even be the same every week, in the event that the bitcoin newbie might choose to buy $100, $10 or some other amount of bitcoin on a weekly basis as their starting out amount that they determine to be reasonable to their situation.. .and of course, any newbie biutcoiner likely takes time to get used to investing in bitcoin and perhaps at the same time getting used to strengthening his cashflow management systems and practices (especially if he had not previously been in the practice of keeping back up funds) and also perhaps putting more discipline in his discretionary consumption, so in that regard, I would find it quite reasonable if the newbie bitcoiner would end up erroring on the side of slow and conservative while he is getting used to buying bitcoin on a regular basis (such as weekly), yet I would not find it reasonable for him to focus on building his back up funds without getting the fuck started with buying bitcoin, especially if the guy had already tentatively determined that he had a sufficient amount of discretionary to get started buying bitcoin.
Even though it is important to get started investing in bitcoin as soon as possible, it makes little to no sense to start out with absolutely no emergency funds (back up funds).
At least some back up funds need to be present, otherwise a person cannot be sure that he is not investing into bitcoin with non-discretionary funds. One of the requirements of bitcoin investing is to use discretionary funds - and don't be making dumb mistakes that relate to trading or gambling.. especially since investment in bitcoin should be considered to be 4-10 years or longer, even if in the beginning a newbie might not be ready, willing or able to establish his investment timeline to be 4-10 years or longer.
I agree with you, timing the market at times do matters but but some silly mistakes many of this new investors make is by not applying good safety to their investments they just walk in, It seems like you do not understand what sir jayjuangee said here, because he did not say that timing the market at times do matters, what he was saying is that it's not a bad idea if you have at least a small amount of emergency funds or backup funds available while starting, because it stands as a safety net against any unforseen emergencies.
In the beginning, the guy who is simultaneously building his bitcoin and his back up funds will likely not be able to cover very many emergencies, yet he should at least minimally be able cover minor divergences that involve lower income and/or increased expenses, and so it may well take him several months to be able to really build up both his bitcoin investment and his back up funds, yet he would still be likely running the risk that any kind of significant divergence in his income going down or expenses going up could still end up taking out both his back up funds and his bitcoin.. so he likely has to figure out some comfortable way to build... since he is starting from nothing.. and sure the longer he is building, the stronger and stronger his funds will get and he will be able so sustain more and more, and surely even guys building their bitcoin and their emergency funds for a year or two, still might be vulnerable since it tends to take time to really build up back up funds and also to build the bitcoin holdings and to really strengthen cashflow management systems so they can cover quite a variety of circumstances that could end up happening.
When you have your discretionary income available for a start, making some provisions for emergency and reserve funds right away from there is very important because it helps to give your Bitcoin investment that needed security from the start.
This part is true, and it was the point that I was wanting to make, since there are some guys who seem to believe that they can start with absolutely zero back up funds, which seems like a train wreck waiting to happen... and guys need to try to be smarter and not get too greedy.. but also figure out ways to not be too conservative, also... so it tends to take a sufficient amount of time to get used to bitcoin investing, building back up funds and really get to stronger financially and psychologically.. and probably even more time for poor people and people who have .lower level of discretionary funds to work with, and so poor people are likely never going to advance out of being poor if they don't put good practices in place, and sure some of them could get lucky by gambling that ends up paying off, but that really does not seem to be a good approach to investing whether we are referring to bitcoin or any other investing approach.. .In this case, and in this thread we are talking about ways to build our bitcoin holdings.. which tends to needs a certain amount of focus and priorities given to it.. especially in the earliest years, perhaps a whole cycle or more until guys might start to develop good and strong habits by learning as they go (hopefully?)..
