Everything you wanted to know about ES Volcano Bond and were afraid to ask!

[fillippone]

During one of his last podcast, Rikki, one half of the "Bitcoin Explorers" Stated that the Bitcoin Bond was overly undersubscribed.
This was the exact opposite of what Samson Mow stated.

He is also very pessimistic about the possibility of having a bitcoin bond sooner than later (or never).
I will let you know if I discover more.

I usually prefer to listen to podcasts rather than watch YouTube.. but I will watch Youtube, once in a while if I know which one is being referenced.. and even better yet if the reference tells me which part of the video to watch or tells me the reasons why I should watch / listen to the whole thing.

Your link (fillippone) referenced the BitcoinExplorers channel which has three videos (two of them are 16 minutes and one is 18 minutes).. one of them has an El Salvador title.. Is that the one or do you want me (us, we) to watch all three of those to figure out the reference.. hahahahahaha.. not trying to pick on you... and by the way, if there is an audio podcast of bitcoiners, I don't mind subscribing to it and listening to all the updates.. even though sometimes if I just hear about one, then it can take a while to listen to some of the back issues.. but I had never previously heard of this one.. BitcoinExplorers..... even though their first video says "We're back".. Back from where?  I did not listen to (or watch) it.. hahahaha .. I need direction to be inspired "where to start?" and/or "will it be worth la pena (la tristezza)?"...

Sorry, but the podcast I was referring is in Italian only. So, I thought it was pointless to provide an exact reference to it (I still can do that if you think it is worth, or, without spoiling your OpSec, you tell me that you can find Italian intelligible).

Regarding the "We are back" part, yes, they are back TO El Salvador.
Last year they provided a very nice reportage of 45 days spent in El Salvador documenting how the Bitcoin Ley was implemented, or actually NOT implemented in reality.

They provided a very good coverage, that was for the main part in Italian, and later translated in English.
You can find it here:

https://bitcoinitaliapodcast.it/missione-el-salvador

This year they are going to do the same mission (that's why the "We are back" claim), only broadening their focus on the whole Central America. And I guess they choose to broaden also their audience adopting the English Language.

I fully support The BIP Show: I don't know how, but I am often 100% on their side when there are controversial subjects.

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[JayJuanGee]

During one of his last podcast, Rikki, one half of the "Bitcoin Explorers" Stated that the Bitcoin Bond was overly undersubscribed.
This was the exact opposite of what Samson Mow stated.

He is also very pessimistic about the possibility of having a bitcoin bond sooner than later (or never).
I will let you know if I discover more.

I usually prefer to listen to podcasts rather than watch YouTube.. but I will watch Youtube, once in a while if I know which one is being referenced.. and even better yet if the reference tells me which part of the video to watch or tells me the reasons why I should watch / listen to the whole thing.

Your link (fillippone) referenced the BitcoinExplorers channel which has three videos (two of them are 16 minutes and one is 18 minutes).. one of them has an El Salvador title.. Is that the one or do you want me (us, we) to watch all three of those to figure out the reference.. hahahahahaha.. not trying to pick on you... and by the way, if there is an audio podcast of bitcoiners, I don't mind subscribing to it and listening to all the updates.. even though sometimes if I just hear about one, then it can take a while to listen to some of the back issues.. but I had never previously heard of this one.. BitcoinExplorers..... even though their first video says "We're back".. Back from where?  I did not listen to (or watch) it.. hahahaha .. I need direction to be inspired "where to start?" and/or "will it be worth la pena (la tristezza)?"...

Sorry, but the podcast I was referring is in Italian only. So, I thought it was pointless to provide an exact reference to it (I still can do that if you think it is worth, or, without spoiling your OpSec, you tell me that you can find Italian intelligible).

Regarding the "We are back" part, yes, they are back TO El Salvador.
Last year they provided a very nice reportage of 45 days spent in El Salvador documenting how the Bitcoin Ley was implemented, or actually NOT implemented in reality.

They provided a very good coverage, that was for the main part in Italian, and later translated in English.
You can find it here:

https://bitcoinitaliapodcast.it/missione-el-salvador

This year they are going to do the same mission (that's why the "We are back" claim), only broadening their focus on the whole Central America. And I guess they choose to broaden also their audience adopting the English Language.

I fully support The BIP Show: I don't know how, but I am often 100% on their side when there are controversial subjects.

Thanks for the information and those links.  Of course, if we are posting in an English thread, then we might need to point out if our sources might be in another language, and surely it is up to you how much you feel that it is necessary to either back up your sources or to provide the links (even if non-English is the only source that you know for the point that you are making).   

Sure in regards to the point that you were making, then surely sources would be important.. and of course, Samson is already known to be close to Bukele, but at the same time, he has been criticized about his sometimes overstating (marketing) and surely El Salvador has been criticized for similar spin-making.. so then part of the question might be whether your sources might have better information.. or maybe no matter what we might be speculating regarding some of those kinds of quasi-non-public details regarding volcano bond subscribership, the reasons (explanations) for the subscribership levels and also even speculations to be able to raise money for those kinds of causes during our current market environment. 

For sure, being on the ground in El Salvador can bring more credibility in terms of getting closer to primary sources, but then also sometimes being able to verify whether some of the factual representations are lining up with on-the-ground experience.... for example, how easy it might be to buy a sim card with bitcoin or some other example.. of some point that is being made.

[aysg76]

I usually prefer to listen to podcasts rather than watch YouTube.. but I will watch Youtube, once in a while if I know which one is being referenced.. and even better yet if the reference tells me which part of the video to watch or tells me the reasons why I should watch / listen to the whole thing.

I also prefer to listen to podcasts and have listened to the mining council about how they are using energy efficient resources and shifting to green mining which tells me the latest updates to backup my statements in any post and keep updated my knowledge.But also watch YouTube videos if I found some good one's although most of them are busy shilling fake and shit coins so go through other sources.

But yes if the video is long then it's helpful to listen to the specific part which emphasize on the whole matter for what's the video is upto and refrence to that part is really helpful.

Sorry, but the podcast I was referring is in Italian only. So, I thought it was pointless to provide an exact reference to it (I still can do that if you think it is worth, or, without spoiling your OpSec, you tell me that you can find Italian intelligible).

It's fine as we will not be able to understand what they are saying as we don't have graphical representation also to link up the audio and understand it but good for pointing it out to us and let us know about them as they will now be in English also so we can have look on them to see their viewpoint on the matter.

Regarding the "We are back" part, yes, they are back TO El Salvador.
Last year they provided a very nice reportage of 45 days spent in El Salvador documenting how the Bitcoin Ley was implemented, or actually NOT implemented in reality.

They provided a very good coverage, that was for the main part in Italian, and later translated in English.
You can find it here:

https://bitcoinitaliapodcast.it/missione-el-salvador

I like the way they themselves have the team on the ground foe coverage on the matter providing a realistic approach to see the whole thing to the public and good part in English also.As you see El Salvador bitcoin bonds is the new hot topic of discussion at this point and we need to know how Bukele goverment will proceed further with it as they aim to raise $1billion for bitcoin city.

[fillippone]

I like the way they themselves have the team on the ground foe coverage on the matter providing a realistic approach to see the whole thing to the public and good part in English also.As you see El Salvador bitcoin bonds is the new hot topic of discussion at this point and we need to know how Bukele goverment will proceed further with it as they aim to raise $1billion for bitcoin city.

They are he is a true bitcoiner, and he's interested in giving a prospect of how things stands in reality, without bowing to Bukele and other clowns in the country (Max and Stacey) who are fed dollars from the government to play the State Buffon.

He's always been advocating bitcoin as an instrument of freedom for the masses, hoping from the bottom up adoption from poorer states, not a top- down experiment , like in the civilised world, or even in El Salvador, in a way, where bitcoin has been imposed by a law.

[rokok lokal]

In my opinion El Salvador Bonds is a pretty experimental way to raise money, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. The idea behind it was a bet on future government fees, which were paid up front in bitcoin and simple enough that it could find its way into the larger debt markets.

But the question remains whether this work will be a revolution in public finance or just a footnote?

Given the little information available on bitcoin bonding, it's hard to say it's even unclear how much money is raised at the end of the day, but if nothing else, it's an innovative solution for raising capital. Who knows: maybe we're looking at the first bitcoin-denominated sovereign debt offering.

[fillippone]

Who knows: maybe we're looking at the first bitcoin-denominated sovereign debt offering.

This is out of question for the moment.
Lending your bitcoin to a third party is something very difficult for the moment.
Also from the debtor point of view, debt in Bitcoin could get quite difficult nowadays: think about repaying such a bond in a bull market.

[rokok lokal]

Who knows: maybe we're looking at the first bitcoin-denominated sovereign debt offering.

This is out of question for the moment.
Lending your bitcoin to a third party is something very difficult for the moment.
Also from the debtor point of view, debt in Bitcoin could get quite difficult nowadays: think about repaying such a bond in a bull market.

True, Like other types of loans, if the debt has to be repaid in a bull market it is very problematic especially with unstable assets, let alone ensuring the lender is protected during that period to close the deal even in a bear market.

In this regard, I also wonder whether a solution like the DAO might really help countries that are vulnerable to the current economic crisis, especially those who are more speculative with their investment appetite.

[aysg76]

They are he is a true bitcoiner, and he's interested in giving a prospect of how things stands in reality , without bowing to Buckle and other clowns in the country (Max and Stacey) who are fed dollars from the government to play the State Buffon.

The government puppets are everywhere pooping their nose out while bitcoin maximalist keep doing their job and not giving them importance and really appreciate those who present the true and accurate picture of the reality unlike fed up by goverment to speak like machine spreading negative points about bitcoin.BTCis knowledge which must be presented in true manner to everyone so they know about financial freedom of funds.

[fillippone]

The government puppets are everywhere pooping their nose out while bitcoin maximalist keep doing their job and not giving them importance and really appreciate those who present the true and accurate picture of the reality unlike fed up by goverment to speak like machine spreading negative points about bitcoin.BTCis knowledge which must be presented in true manner to everyone so they know about financial freedom of funds.

Sad thing is Bitcoin was created because Satoshi wanted to free the man from the State, and the tyranny of the few. And someone who proclaim herself a bitcoiner does what? Bows to a tyrant only because he imposed a law imposing everyone to accept bitcoin?
This is ridiculous, to say the least, and intellectually embarrassing.

[JayJuanGee]

The government puppets are everywhere pooping their nose out while bitcoin maximalist keep doing their job and not giving them importance and really appreciate those who present the true and accurate picture of the reality unlike fed up by goverment to speak like machine spreading negative points about bitcoin.BTCis knowledge which must be presented in true manner to everyone so they know about financial freedom of funds.

Sad thing is Bitcoin was created because Satoshi wanted to free the man from the State, and the tyranny of the few. And someone who proclaim herself a bitcoiner does what? Bows to a tyrant only because he imposed a law imposing everyone to accept bitcoin?
This is ridiculous, to say the least, and intellectually embarrassing.

I don't know whether Satoshi created bitcoin in order to free man from the state, but surely there is value in the creation of a money that is likely more sound than any other money that has ever been created in order to potentially inspire various actors (whether governmental or otherwise) to be more responsible and accountable to objective standards of value.. something such as bitcoin seems to have very great potential to incentivize and inspire fairness - even though it probably does not fix all problems and it likely also does not negate various needs for some kind of state or recognition of some resources that are community in nature... .. and so even if fixing the money might not be able to fix all of the difficulties of trying to balance the community assets and individual assets, it does likely return some fairness to monetary systems that have historically been abused in a variety of ways..

I am not claiming to know the answers, but I think that it is problematic to proclaim that the government is something outside of ourselves even though we have seen a lot of ways in which government has historically been abused, currently is being abused and likely to be abused in the future.. and I would not even proclaim to know how the various balances are going to be improved or fixed, even though it seems that bitcoin seems to continue to fix and inspire ongoing fixing of some of the systems that have been corrupted by traditional money systems.. and I doubt that bitcoin's fixing of these monetary and incentive matters is a future aspiration but instead a process in which we seem to be in really early stages in which some fixing has already taken place, are currently taking place and will likely continue to take place too.. . even though there are likely going to continue to be quite a few ups and downs along the way.. including ongoing casualties for folks who either don't appreciate the power of king daddy or fail/refuse to take some of their own adequate balances in regards to recognizing and investing time, money, energies and psychology into king daddy... of course.... balance also means, not to over do it, too... as we some times see casualties from that kind of conduct, too..  hahahahahaha..

.....i.e. be aggressive and assertive in terms of your investment into my lil precious, without becoming too aggressive.. and such lessons are good on the individual level, as well as on institutional and governmental levels.

[DiMarxist]

2022 Reviewing on El Salvador’s President Bukele Prediction on the Volcano Bond, Bitcoin City and others

.

Bukele Predicted a lot of things in 2022 and all seem to be failed. First he Predicted that bitcoin price would climb to $100,000 and that was not realized.

The second, he Predicted that two countries would adopt bitcoin as a legal tender but it was only Central Africa Republic Adopted it, the second was not realized.

Thirdly, he said, bitcoin will have influence in US election in this year. The Prediction of The Volcano Bonds that will be used to create the Bitcoin City is still a futuristic Prediction that can be realized.

This is the fourth one: 👇

The fourth prediction that Bukele stated was that the construction of the Bitcoin City, the geothermal-powered, bitcoin mining-friendly city, would start last year.

The fifth one is still on subscription of the Volcano Bond which which was failed due to the Russia and Ukraine war.

The six one would have been Predicted in the bitcoin conference Hall in Miami but president Bukele didn't appear based on conflict in the country.

Source

[JayJuanGee]

2022 Reviewing on El Salvador’s President Bukele Prediction on the Volcano Bond, Bitcoin City and others

.
Bukele Predicted a lot of things in 2022 and all seem to be failed. First he Predicted that bitcoin price would climb to $100,000 and that was not realized.

The second, he Predicted that two countries would adopt bitcoin as a legal tender but it was only Central Africa Republic Adopted it, the second was not realized.

Thirdly, he said, bitcoin will have influence in US election in this year. The Prediction of The Volcano Bonds that will be used to create the Bitcoin City is still a futuristic Prediction that can be realized.

This is the fourth one: 👇

The fourth prediction that Bukele stated was that the construction of the Bitcoin City, the geothermal-powered, bitcoin mining-friendly city, would start last year.

The fifth one is still on subscription of the Volcano Bond which which was failed due to the Russia and Ukraine war.

The six one would have been Predicted in the bitcoin conference Hall in Miami but president Bukele didn't appear based on conflict in the country.

Source

What do you believe that all of these failed bitcoin-related predictions help to accomplish?

What do you get out of the fact that there may well be a lot of failed bitcoin related predictions?

You are pretty damned new to this forum, with only about one week since you had registered here.  Do you own any bitcoin? Do you have any bitcoin investment related plans?  Have you known about bitcoin for longer than the timeline of your forum registration date?

What do you think about bitcoin as an investment?  Are there better investments out there?  Do you believe that there might be more solid ways of viewing the future and/or making predictions?  Of course, it tends to be really easy to describe so many ways in which past predictions have failed to come true, but at any point in time, each of us has to decide for ourselves how we are going to invest our time, energies, psychology and finances, and these do not necessarily need to be all or nothing kinds of investments - even though at the same time there does tend to be a decent amount of value towards having some focus in terms of how any of us might be thinking about how we are investing our own limited resources.  

For sure, governments and institutions have some further considerations because they are likely acting in representative capacities, so likely the best of representatives would be attempting to match their spending of resources in line with the persons/entities that they are representing... but otherwise, they may well be making a lot of similar kinds of trade-offs in terms of balancing whether and how to invest.

Edit: 
By the way, I did just look at your post/merit history and I did notice that you had created a thread about your "first bitcoin" buy, and so even though I have not had a chance to look at that thread yet.. I might be able to go through that thread later down the road... That thread is already getting into 4 pages and it has ONLY been four days.

[fillippone]

2022 Reviewing on El Salvador’s President Bukele Prediction on the Volcano Bond, Bitcoin City and others

.

Bukele Predicted a lot of things in 2022 and all seem to be failed

You can't say we didn't see it happening, can you?
The exact scope of this thread is trying to debunk the myths a leader of a tiny Central American state tried to sell to his own electors.
I am not a fan of Bukele, I am not going to bend my knee in front of him only because he said the word "bitcoin", other did, maybe for a personal profit (insert your favorite toxic maxi's name here) of because of stupidity.

Regarding the above post from @JJG, consider it as a warm welcome to this forum. Where you will bump in one of his wall of text.

If I can freely interpret his thoughts: "introduce yourself to the forum, explain what bring you here and your attitude toward our mutual orange friend before posting something that could be read in opposite ways (is your post against bitcoin or against Bukele? To me, it is the latter, but maybe not everyone could read the same interpretation).

[DiMarxist]

If I can freely interpret his thoughts: "introduce yourself to the forum, explain what bring you here and your attitude toward our mutual orange friend before posting something that could be read in opposite ways (is your post against bitcoin or against Bukele? To me, it is the latter, but maybe not everyone could read the same interpretation).

The introduction of self has been done in the Beginners & help BoardHow I found here.. For the Bukele and bitcoin, I am not against the either. But a supporter of the both. I support Bukele because he is a very good example to other countries' governments on bitcoin. I decided to made the comment with the information under your thread because your thread is related to the information. If not I would have created a separate thread for but there was no need when there is an existing thread. I am a pro Bukele for adopting bitcoin and trying to make things easy for his citizens if things work out to the way he wants from bitcoin. I am also a pro bitcoin.

Bukele's dreams on bitcoin can be realized if bitcoin price rise to his Prediction of $100,000

[fillippone]

If I can freely interpret his thoughts: "introduce yourself to the forum, explain what bring you here and your attitude toward our mutual orange friend before posting something that could be read in opposite ways (is your post against bitcoin or against Bukele? To me, it is the latter, but maybe not everyone could read the same interpretation).

The introduction of self has been done in the Beginners & help BoardHow I found here.. For the Bukele and bitcoin, I am not against the either. But a supporter of the both. I support Bukele because he is a very good example to other countries' governments on bitcoin. I decided to made the comment with the information under your thread because your thread is related to the information. If not I would have created a separate thread for but there was no need when there is an existing thread. I am a pro Bukele for adopting bitcoin and trying to make things easy for his citizens if things work out to the way he wants from bitcoin. I am also a pro bitcoin.

Bukele's dreams on bitcoin can be realized if bitcoin price rise to his Prediction of $100,000

If you follow my fellow Bitcoin Italia Podcast friend in Central America, you will discover that actually the Bitcoin Law did nothing for the poor people, unless giving the 30 USD.
Chivo Wallet is basically not used anymore, and bitcoin usage is basically zero in El Salvador.

[JayJuanGee]

2022 Reviewing on El Salvador’s President Bukele Prediction on the Volcano Bond, Bitcoin City and others

.

Bukele Predicted a lot of things in 2022 and all seem to be failed

You can't say we didn't see it happening, can you?
The exact scope of this thread is trying to debunk the myths a leader of a tiny Central American state tried to sell to his own electors.
I am not a fan of Bukele, I am not going to bend my knee in front of him only because he said the word "bitcoin", other did, maybe for a personal profit (insert your favorite toxic maxi's name here) of because of stupidity.

Regarding the above post from @JJG, consider it as a warm welcome to this forum. Where you will bump in one of his wall of text.

If I can freely interpret his thoughts: "introduce yourself to the forum, explain what bring you here and your attitude toward our mutual orange friend before posting something that could be read in opposite ways (is your post against bitcoin or against Bukele? To me, it is the latter, but maybe not everyone could read the same interpretation).

Yes.  Probably just caught me from a bad angle, and in the end I am not really bothered so much whether I agree or disagree with someone, and there are some members I disagree with a lot, yet they back up what they say.. rather than just outlining disagreeable conclusions.

Many of the longer term bitcoin focus members had considered that various aspects of El Salvador's approach was correct because they purposefully said that they were not getting into shitcoins and they were staying bitcoin focused - but that did not prevent some issues with the Chivo wallet and various ways that the $30 credit was either gamed or abused.. so surely, it can be problematic when free money is given out - even if that free money largely may have had good intentions to incentivize poor people to get started and to look into bitcoin.

Some aspects of adoption in El Salvador is not going to be easy to measure, and I am not necessarily going to deem some projects as failures merely because they might have had to be rethunk or implemented later or even designed in ways that hardly resemble the original proposals - so in some sense, many of us will end up learning from earlier mistakes and my thinking is that as long as the earlier endeavors had good intentions to build, then value still can be gained from them, even if they might not end up being successful... and surely also sometimes we may have to consider if there might have been bad intentions from the start with some programs, so if a program is implemented, but there is no intention for it to be successful, then some of those kinds of efforts may well end up being bad uses of public monies.

[franky1]

there is no point setting aside $166m, hoping for a 6x in the following year.. to get to $1 billion..
but instead see it shrink to $40m where some people think 'well he should get started on building by selling the coin to start construction, if not then he failed to meet promises'


instead the obvious/smart thing is buy some more coin while cheap.. and to wait for the set aside budget to get to $1b .. and then do the project

separate from the bond stuff
the chivo project of sept 2021-jan 2022 WAS NOT BITCOIN
it was the crappy flawed subnetwork phishing bitcoins branding.. called lightning
lightning failed el salvador citizens

the guy from strike pretending he was offering chivo a bitcoin solution without the blockchain
bitcoin is on the blockchain, bitcoin never leaves the blockchain
the strike guy was actually highlighting 'lightning this'.. 'lightning that'.. 'lightning is bitcoin'... 'lightning is chivos btc'  meaning he was calling LN bitcoin in september and praising it . but by january they were saying "bitcoin failed"

malicious lot of idiots in the lightning crowd
fast enough to rip off reputation. but even faster in absolving themselves of responsibility, shiftng blame to say bitcoin is broke..

[Bushdark]

In my opinion El Salvador Bonds is a pretty experimental way to raise money, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Bitcoin became a legal tender in El Salvador September 2021 leading to the commencement of Bitcoin adoption and since then there had been a continuous agitation on Bitcoin revolution in the country. I see this as a gamble and I hope it will pay off soon if he gain massive support from investors.

Given the little information available on bitcoin bonding, it's hard to say it's even unclear how much money is raised at the end of the day, but if nothing else, it's an innovative solution for raising capital. Who knows: maybe we're looking at the first bitcoin-denominated sovereign debt offering.

This is a rhetorical question and this is left to the country to decided on publicizing the total amount raised at the end of the day.
This is a great innovation that had been leading to the massive adoption of Bitcoin which I strongly support and I hope that if this becomes successful, other countries too could opt in to the use of fossil fuel from volcanoes to generate electricity even though the main purpose is not to mine Bitcoin. I hope to see this project become successful anyway!

[aysg76]

If you follow my fellow Bitcoin Italia Podcast friend in Central America, you will discover that actually the Bitcoin Law did nothing for the poor people, unless giving the 30 USD.
Chivo Wallet is basically not used anymore, and bitcoin usage is basically zero in El Salvador.

I remember how many people have downloaded the wallet and there were claims that millions have used Chivo wallet because it was free money and they want to experience the new things but now the usage have declined due to various factors and have not heard anything new from the leader as well Bukele and only investment was in last dip but they have lost more then $60M with the current dip.

The new bitcoin bonds might be helpful for them and new investor around the globe seek interest in them but will be happy to see what future plans they have from raising the funds and how well this goes because you need proper plans and usage from people to keep it going.

[fillippone]

Coming back strictly own topic: apparently something is moving in the right direction regarding the Volcano Bond.

The law has been approved by the parliament and it will be soon enacted.




So it's like a comprehensive framework to be applied to the digital assets as explained in the detailed thread.