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Author Topic: New research proves: MtGox bitcoins NOT stolen using transaction malleability  (Read 25273 times)
ifritsultan
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March 29, 2014, 09:27:57 AM
 #61

Looks good, I hope this result can be verified!
It has already been shown to be wrong.

They were only looking at broadcasted transactions which were broadcasted through the network, i.e. accepted by and relayed by standard bitcoin clients.  MtGox's vulnerable transactions weren't accepted by bitcoin clients after version 0.8, and not relayed.  The transactions were only published through MtGox's API, and the researchers didn't look there.  The transactions published in their API included a signature which could be changed into a valid one by a simple modification, and this is (probably) how the theft happened.
Can you explain that? How can transactions be made "invisible"?
Because the transactions will not be accepted by bitcoin nodes.  Invalid transactions are discarded and not relayed to other clients, just as when someone send your client some random data.  It may even disconnect the other node and blacklist it.  (The MtGox transactions were not invalid enough to warrant a blacklist, just non-standard so normal bitcoin nodes won't accept or relay them, but will accept them if mined in a block by someone else.)


I can only barely understand the technical details of the paper, I must admit that. But if what your are saying is correct, how could thexy detect the TM after the media impact, if their algorithms were based on rejecting nodes? That i do not understand.

However, when it should turn out, that the paper is plain wrong, there is still a huge doubt about the purpordedtly loss of ALL BITCOINS by means of this "bug". The simple difference is, that we do not a have a proof yet.

Still there is one thing to check, in my opinion. The authors claimed that they could fit their recorded data to the database-data from Mt.Gox. That should be done before rejecting their work as "wrong", shouldnt it?
sturle
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March 29, 2014, 09:47:56 AM
 #62

Because the transactions will not be accepted by bitcoin nodes.  Invalid transactions are discarded and not relayed to other clients, just as when someone send your client some random data.  It may even disconnect the other node and blacklist it.  (The MtGox transactions were not invalid enough to warrant a blacklist, just non-standard so normal bitcoin nodes won't accept or relay them, but will accept them if mined in a block by someone else.)
I can only barely understand the technical details of the paper, I must admit that. But if what your are saying is correct, how could thexy detect the TM after the media impact, if their algorithms were based on rejecting nodes? That i do not understand.
There are different ways to mutate a transaction.  The "researchers" detected one special kind where both versions of the transaction were standard.  Just an opcode changed to another with the same function.  The vulnerable MtGox transactions were of a different kind and non-standard since 0.8, so they could only detect the version which was confirmed.  Not the original from MtGox.

Quote
However, when it should turn out, that the paper is plain wrong, there is still a huge doubt about the purpordedtly loss of ALL BITCOINS by means of this "bug". The simple difference is, that we do not a have a proof yet.
I think at least 1257 BTC, and probably not much more, were lost through the malleability bug.  Based on the fact that there were 1257 BTC in double spent inputs in the last full bitcoin_tx.php I could get hold of before they shut down.  MtGox wouldn't detect the fact that the inputs were spent when the transaction got a new txid, and try to spend them again in another transaction.
Quote
Still there is one thing to check, in my opinion. The authors claimed that they could fit their recorded data to the database-data from Mt.Gox. That should be done before rejecting their work as "wrong", shouldnt it?
A few of MtGox's transactions may have been mutated this way as well.  It is certainly an exception.

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ifritsultan
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March 29, 2014, 09:58:13 AM
 #63

I think at least 1257 BTC, and probably not much more, were lost through the malleability bug.  Based on the fact that there were 1257 BTC in double spent inputs in the last full bitcoin_tx.php I could get hold of before they shut down.  MtGox wouldn't detect the fact that the inputs were spent when the transaction got a new txid, and try to spend them again in another transaction.

You seem to have separate data, which are suitable for similar scans?
sturle
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March 29, 2014, 10:10:14 AM
 #64

I think at least 1257 BTC, and probably not much more, were lost through the malleability bug.  Based on the fact that there were 1257 BTC in double spent inputs in the last full bitcoin_tx.php I could get hold of before they shut down.  MtGox wouldn't detect the fact that the inputs were spent when the transaction got a new txid, and try to spend them again in another transaction.
You seem to have separate data, which are suitable for similar scans?
I only kept this last file.  Sad

Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell.  See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.pl
Warning: "Bitcoin" XT, Classic, Unlimited and the likes are scams. Don't use them, and don't listen to their shills.
ifritsultan
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March 29, 2014, 10:20:28 AM
 #65

Which if from which to which date?
sturle
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March 29, 2014, 02:28:29 PM
 #66

Which if from which to which date?
Just one point in time.  The list was updated every 20 minutes, and my version contains 1211 transactions.  Not sure of the time.

Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell.  See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.pl
Warning: "Bitcoin" XT, Classic, Unlimited and the likes are scams. Don't use them, and don't listen to their shills.
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March 29, 2014, 02:43:40 PM
 #67

If Empty Gox was selling empty Bitcoin place-holders then whatever was in the hot-wallet (the fraction of the reserve) was all they had. The "missing" Bitcoins are simply the revelation of null Bitcoins. It looks more like fraudulently obtained fiat than missing crypto IMO.

The bigger problem I see here is that banks all run on this fractional reserve system. Anybody holding fiat risks getting "goxed".
cococoin
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March 29, 2014, 02:46:31 PM
Last edit: April 09, 2014, 08:10:31 AM by cococoin
 #68

LoL...

Mark Karpeles got Goxed for his lie  Grin
Let's see, so if I owned one of the largest bitcoin exchanges, I might be tempted to shut down as well; claiming that most of coins were stolen while I was secretly funneling them into multiple personal anonymous accounts. Then eventually when I had enough coins stored up, I would let the shit hit the fan by saying the coins are stolen, and then proceed to file for bankruptcy. Lastly, I'd sneak off and buy my own little island where nobody would find me.
2tights
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April 14, 2014, 08:43:39 PM
 #69

LoL...

Mark Karpeles got Goxed for his lie  Grin
Let's see, so if I owned one of the largest bitcoin exchanges, I might be tempted to shut down as well; claiming that most of coins were stolen while I was secretly funneling them into multiple personal anonymous accounts. Then eventually when I had enough coins stored up, I would let the shit hit the fan by saying the coins are stolen, and then proceed to file for bankruptcy. Lastly, I'd sneak off and buy my own little island where nobody would find me.

Even Houdini couldn't lose himself this day and age.
zolace
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April 15, 2014, 12:12:50 AM
 #70

yea we need to get this guy in the trials to testify, I hope Karplese goes to jail

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Bit_Happy
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April 15, 2014, 12:44:17 AM
 #71

Well, this is just another proof to something we already know. Mark Karpeles is a thief.

How long before a lynch mob hunts him down? How many people lost $10+?

If Mark is alive you have a better chance of getting the coins back.  (better than zero)

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