BTC as "every day" spending currency vs. 10 min Block Confirmation/Mining time

[buwaytress]

The first response to OP pretty much covered whatever I was going to say when I first saw the topic title, but consider the other solution long implemented by many Bitcoin-accepting services I've been using since 2016:

- Accept the transaction as soon as it's discoverable on the network
- Only allow the delivery of product and/or withdrawal upon 1 confirmation

Of course, it doesn't work for a lot of on-the-go businesses, so you'd have to accept on 0 confirmation BUT you could get on a network of "identifier" wallets, where you encourage the customer to identify their spending wallets (not necessarily KYC) with a trust list.

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[Saint-loup]

You're wrong, in Europe you can make instant wire transfers in less than ten seconds now, with SEPA Instant Credit Transfer. You just need to know the SEPA account number(IBAN) of the person or the company to pay. Only few dozens of cents are usually charged for those wire transfers.

And a quick web search tells me that such payments can be reversed for a massive 13 months after the payment date.

AFAIK a request can be sent during 13 months but the recipient is free to accept it or to deny it.

A recall can be issued up to 10 days after the submission of the initial payment if the request is initated by the debtor bank. Recall requests initiated by the customer directly can be filed up to 13 months after the transaction has been completed.

The recipient of the recall (the credited party of the original transaction that is being recalled) can either accept or reject the recall request. A decision has to be returned to the sender within 15 days from receiving the recall request.

If the recall is accepted, the recipient can decide to return the entire payment amount or keep part of it (e.g. for processing costs or to cover the costs of the return).

https://api-docs.form3.tech/tutorial-sepa-instant-receive-a-recall.html

[franky1]

A recall can be issued up to 10 days after the submission of the initial payment if the request is initated by the debtor bank. Recall requests initiated by the customer directly can be filed up to 13 months after the transaction has been completed.

The recipient of the recall (the credited party of the original transaction that is being recalled) can either accept or reject the recall request. A decision has to be returned to the sender within 15 days from receiving the recall request.

If the recall is accepted, the recipient can decide to return the entire payment amount or keep part of it (e.g. for processing costs or to cover the costs of the return).
https://api-docs.form3.tech/tutorial-sepa-instant-receive-a-recall.html

chargebacks are a bane of merchants lives. many people try to 'recall' their money. its not rare. chargeback scamming is a big deal. and its not a simple 'the recipient chooses to reject the application'. what you find is that the customer can say "my bank account was hacked" and the bank favours the customer and does the recall without the merchants permission.
its like ebay, they favour the customer too.

bitcoins settlement irreversibility stops these things and makes people responsible of their assets.. altnets like LN are not new or innovated. they are old school banking economics with the same chargeback(punishment) loopholes and clauses.

altnetter want bitcoin to have replace by fee and conditional contracts(punishments) to introduce chargebacks into bitcoin.. shameful

But you're a one trick pony with no imagination.  

Propose a solution then.

already have said many idea's. you know it as do your buddies. but the ignorance of you and your chums dont care about bitcoin scaling

heres a quick refresher
1. to prevent 'spam attacks' of people re-spending same value every block to fill blocks. the solution is not to make ALL transactions more expensive(current idiot model). its to actually use the blockheight of the utxo as a measure of how fresh the value is, if its less then X confirms. they pay more.
EG someone respending a 1confirm utxo pays 144x more then someone with a day old utxo
this way someone spending once a day is not paying the same high fee per transaction as a spammer spending 144 times a day.. simple logic and common sense approach. punish just the spammers, not everyone

2. there are other fee formulae's that do actually count all the bytes(like pre 2017 did) where they make a fairer fee charging system for all. and yes they can be implemented as a consensus rule, before you spout out the fake propaganda that fee's are not a rule. after all the ignore witness in fee costing(the vbyte code) is a rule.

3. if the worry is having a single transaction with 2000 signatures/scripts that can cause validation delays. simply limit tx maxsigops to being under 100 signatures

4. go back to lean transactions without all these lengthy 'witness' (special contract condition scripts/signatures)

5. its not about jumping to 100mb by tomorrow, its about taking out the bad math cludge of misguiding the 1mb limit that still exists and instead actually allow full transaction utility of 4mb which is now considered safe data amount per block. then we can actually see more tx count increases. and PERIODICALY increase, not leap to 100mb like the special boys club pretend is the only option on bitcoin, as their lame propagandised excuse to not want scaling

[dezoel]

It is not every time that a Bitcoin transaction takes up to a minute, not to talk of taking up to 10 minutes. Most of the times the transactions you are making with Bitcoin takes nearly an instant for it to happen. The only time that we usually experience this increase in the length of time that is taken in a transaction is during a time when the market is increasing  in price (bullish period), which is when the network gets congested, and there are lots of transactions to be processed on the network.

The transactions starts taking a lot of time. But you are given options which goes from the regular fees to priority fees. And when you select a priority fee, your transaction is  processed faster than when you choose the regular fee or a lower fee. By the way we now have lightning network, although this lightning network has not been finished yet and there is still a lot more work to be done on it, but you can still find wallets that are already making use of this technology. Then you can as well choose to be making use of centralized or custodial wallets that would request that you give your information (KYC) to them.