German Bank announces to support Bitcoin; says it's important to own private key

[BlackHatCoiner]

Maybe, they have invested big in Bitcoin

Even if that's the reason, they could have greater gains if they promoted an altcoin instead, which is far more centralized and easier to manipulate. Even if they enforced their users to use it custodially, they don't have much to gain and they're against its purpose. Zoom out and see that the existence of it is against its purpose.

We shouldn't expect from the banks to spread the usage of bitcoin, it's ironic. Bitcoiners, remember your moto! Bitcoin = Liberty ≠ Subjugation = Banks!

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[Saint-loup]

Only Bitcoin will be offered:
„We will only offer Bitcoin, not other Crypto assets. Quite simply because only Bitcoin is really a decentralized blockchain application and from our point of view only Bitcoin offers sufficient security against manipulation. All other crypto assets are not comparable to Bitcoin. Above all, they are not decentralized, but there are companies or business models behind influencing the respective Crypto value.“

That's not really bullish... Most of people are not interested in Bitcoin because it is too slow and too expensive to be used in real life then I'm not sure they will convince many customers if they only offer Bitcoin.

Most important point: it’s important to own your Bitcoins:
„The most important topic when trading or storing Bitcoin is to be owner of your so-called private key, (secret key allowing access to your Bitcoin). This is where our first considerations were made.
Which trustworthy solutions can we offer for our customers? Many crypto platforms only give limited or no access to private keys because all Bitcoins are centrally stored on behalf of the customer.
[…] Bitcoin centrally stored by platforms is of course an interesting target for hackers. This also counteracts the decentralized storage in the Bitcoin blockchain. That's why we were looking for solutions in which the customer keeps his private key himself and can therefore own his Bitcoin himself.“

I'm curious to see what they will offer to their customers? A new hardware wallet like trezor/ledger branded "Volksbank Raiffeisenbank Bayern Mitte" or something like opendime/tangem?

[hatshepsut93]

For example, you can't lend Bitcoin in a decentralized way, so a bank would be needed for that.

I think I'm missing something here... How could any of the traditional banks, help you in lending your BTCitcoin in a decentralized way?

My point was, if you can't lend or take a loan in decentralized way, you would need to do it in centralized way, so banks are needed for that. Of course you could make a private contract without intermediaries, but it would be too risky, so it's better to put your coins in a bank if you want to earn interest.

[Saint-loup]

Banks like Volksbanken Raiffeisenbanken are a bit different from what we know about Americans banks, so profits are important but not that important.

Banks only exist because of profits and control of money, so it sounds a bit suspicious they would allow customers to own bitcoin on their own wallets.
I am thinking how they are planning to make their own centralized wallets, something like it was done in El Salvador with Chivo wallet, but that is just my speculation.
I also doubt bank would allow anyone to hold Bitcoin without revealing kyc customer information, maybe even worse than some centralized exchanges are doing now.

They don't want to custody the bitcoin of their customers to avoid the german cryptocurrency regulations. So they won't ask additional KYC procedures for these services according to what they claim in the article.

Because the customer manages his private key himself, we have no way of accessing his Bitcoin, and so we do not store it. So we don't fall under the crypto custody business either. With our offer, we concentrate on educating our customers about Bitcoin and supporting them in choosing and setting up their Bitcoin wallet. The fact that we don't need a BaFin license makes a lot of things easier. The introduction of such an offer is still complicated, if only because of the money laundering regulations. We obtained legal and technical advice from the Bavarian Cooperative Association. It was important to us to include the GVB because we are also breaking new ground with our service.

https://www.profil.bayern/12-2021/praxis/bitcoin-wir-lassen-unsere-kunden-nicht-alleine/

[1miau]

Banks like Volksbanken Raiffeisenbanken are a bit different from what we know about Americans banks, so profits are important but not that important.

Banks only exist because of profits and control of money, so it sounds a bit suspicious they would allow customers to own bitcoin on their own wallets.

Why suspicious?  
In Germany it's a bit different, it's not wallstreet here.  

There was a story about a little bank in a small town, a Raiffeisenbank. There was one employee, the bank didn't had internet until 2009. Founded as a traditional Raiffeisenbank, it was important for the saving of the village.
There's a small story in German: https://www.genonachrichten.de/2021/02/16/fritz-vogt-und-die-raiffeisenbank-gammesfeld/

Things have changed a bit ofcourse but the story is very inspirational.
Not all banks are greedy but "free market" competition has made bigger banks more profitable driving out Banks like described in the article.

I am thinking how they are planning to make their own centralized wallets, something like it was done in El Salvador with Chivo wallet, but that is just my speculation.

From what the board director said, that's not what Volksbanken Raiffeisenbanken are planning. It's completely the opposite.
Owning private keys and self-custody is very important and will part of their Bitcoin education.

I also doubt bank would allow anyone to hold Bitcoin without revealing kyc customer information, maybe even worse than some centralized exchanges are doing now.

 
Buy / sell will require KYC but as customers are already KYCed for their bank accounts, no additional KYC will be needed.
At least a different German Bank (Sparkasse) will handle it like that.

Only Bitcoin will be offered:
„We will only offer Bitcoin, not other Crypto assets. Quite simply because only Bitcoin is really a decentralized blockchain application and from our point of view only Bitcoin offers sufficient security against manipulation. All other crypto assets are not comparable to Bitcoin. Above all, they are not decentralized, but there are companies or business models behind influencing the respective Crypto value.“

That's not really bullish... Most of people are not interested in Bitcoin because it is too slow and too expensive to be used in real life then I'm not sure they will convince many customers if they only offer Bitcoin.

While Bitcoin remains at 40% Bitcoin-dominance, it's quite a big part.
And I like the idea of only offering Bitcoin for now, because it's a fact that most Altcoins are Shitcoins and a risky investment. The Shitcoin manufacturers have still much power; Shitcoins are not really decetralized.
We only need to look at CMC: Top 10 coins have changed very often, Bitcoin always stays number one.

People who want Altcoins might get informational material about it too. But we don't know yet.

Most important point: it’s important to own your Bitcoins:
„The most important topic when trading or storing Bitcoin is to be owner of your so-called private key, (secret key allowing access to your Bitcoin). This is where our first considerations were made.
Which trustworthy solutions can we offer for our customers? Many crypto platforms only give limited or no access to private keys because all Bitcoins are centrally stored on behalf of the customer.
[…] Bitcoin centrally stored by platforms is of course an interesting target for hackers. This also counteracts the decentralized storage in the Bitcoin blockchain. That's why we were looking for solutions in which the customer keeps his private key himself and can therefore own his Bitcoin himself.“

I'm curious to see what they will offer to their customers? A new hardware wallet like trezor/ledger branded "Volksbank Raiffeisenbank Bayern Mitte" or something like opendime/tangem?

Quite possible.

[Mpamaegbu]

At least, those of us who think Bitcoin will be the death of fiat will have a rethink now. As time goes on, certain misconceptions of our hearts are brought to the fore and corrected. This is why we should objectively (and not subjectively) access all situations at all times.

The growth of cryptocurrency should be a synergy between it and the bank. I believe the expectations that one will lead to the extermination of the other is a misplaced thought.

I expect more banks to join in the imitation of what Volksbanken Raiffeisenbanken has done.

[The Cryptovator]

A great explanation so far to adopt Bitcoin. This is what I was thought exactly how Bank should adopt Bitcoin. It doesn't matter Bitcoin is decentralized, it could use by a centralized organization. German Bank just realized the importance of Bitcoin and they don't like to stay back. Though it's the beginning more central Banks should take a lesson from here. We would see someday the central Bank consider Bitcoin as reserve money. To be honest, explanations are enough to adapt Bitcoin and open for Citizens to deal with it rather than deal illegally. Seems German banks going to start with Good practice especially about storing Bitcoin. It's the most important thing they highlighted.

[worle1bm]

A good move by the german banks to adopt the future payment system and provide people Direct exposure to bitcoin through it's services.The thing which makes it different from others is they are educating people at first about bitcoin so they come to know about what actually it is and how it works and all other trading aspects also as well the term shitcoins aslo mentioned in this which clearly indicates they are bullish on bitcoin only and beleive it to be true currency.Overall nice explanation and appreciate the director of this German bank who come up with this nice decision.

[rozak]

A good move by the german banks to adopt the future payment system and provide people Direct exposure to bitcoin through it's services.The thing which makes it different from others is they are educating people at first about bitcoin so they come to know about what actually it is and how it works and all other trading aspects also as well the term shitcoins aslo mentioned in this which clearly indicates they are bullish on bitcoin only and beleive it to be true currency.Overall nice explanation and appreciate the director of this German bank who come up with this nice decision.

gradually I think some big countries are finally starting to open up with the adoption of bitcoin and the importance of blockchain technology that can be developed for banking in the country.
if more positive news like the German Bank does, I'm sure all countries in the world can start considering bitcoin for the future of world finance. some may have been pessimistic when El Salvador announced their adoption. because there are so many contradictions. but when more and more big countries give positive opinions of course it becomes a big hope for bitcoin adoption that will be even greater in the future.

[Lucius]

It's only 1 year, so if you HODL your coins 1 year, it's tax free profits.  
But I'm not sure how long it will stay that way.
I'm very surprised that it hasn't been chanced already.  

I read somewhere that this only applies to coins stored in custody wallets, is that correct? I am of the opinion that Germany is not a country that changes laws just like that, despite the fact that this particular law seems rather strange from the perspective of those in power, and incredibly good for every investor.

Croatia also has an identical model, with the difference that this period is 2 years, and that all crypto assets acquired before January 1, 2016 are tax-free. I think that such things will change only if a common agreement is reached at the level of the whole EU, which is completely unrealistic at the moment.

[GbitG]

A good move by the german banks to adopt the future payment system and provide people Direct exposure to bitcoin through it's services.The thing which makes it different from others is they are educating people at first about bitcoin so they come to know about what actually it is and how it works and all other trading aspects also as well the term shitcoins aslo mentioned in this which clearly indicates they are bullish on bitcoin only and beleive it to be true currency.Overall nice explanation and appreciate the director of this German bank who come up with this nice decision.

gradually I think some big countries are finally starting to open up with the adoption of bitcoin and the importance of blockchain technology that can be developed for banking in the country.
if more positive news like the German Bank does, I'm sure all countries in the world can start considering bitcoin for the future of world finance. some may have been pessimistic when El Salvador announced their adoption. because there are so many contradictions. but when more and more big countries give positive opinions of course it becomes a big hope for bitcoin adoption that will be even greater in the future.

After this German announcement we can expect some more from big countries in Europe because they are now having some better view about this, and they can adopt this all very easily with having very strong market already and Blockchain Technology is also developed in these countries. After El Salvador adoption many countries already studying about this all even very big community is still unable to have benefit from this because of very slow work and corrupt system is still not ready to accept all this blockchain and crypto for better way and fair for all, but we all know this could be change even take some good time.

[1miau]

It's only 1 year, so if you HODL your coins 1 year, it's tax free profits.  
But I'm not sure how long it will stay that way.
I'm very surprised that it hasn't been chanced already.  

I read somewhere that this only applies to coins stored in custody wallets, is that correct?

If coins are stored centrally (exchange), it's also 1 year HODL until it's tax free but what's not tax free are derivatives (also including stocks).
But profits from real coins are tax free after 1 year, no matter if people own these coins or coins are stored on an exchange account (Binance, Coinbase etc.).

I am of the opinion that Germany is not a country that changes laws just like that, despite the fact that this particular law seems rather strange from the perspective of those in power, and incredibly good for every investor.

It's in place for Gold ounces for example and called "private Veräußerungsgeschäfte" (private sale transactions) in Germany: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/estg/__23.html

Croatia also has an identical model, with the difference that this period is 2 years, and that all crypto assets acquired before January 1, 2016 are tax-free. I think that such things will change only if a common agreement is reached at the level of the whole EU, which is completely unrealistic at the moment.

Yes, sounds reasonable but as far as I know, Austria has written new laws (reform) about crypto taxation recently.
Experts have said, it's a very crypto-friendly reform.

[fillippone]

Raffaisen is also going to sell hardware wallets on their branches!

@Stadicus300 informs us about this one initiative:



Probably nothing.

[MinMan]

Having a bank sell something is beyond my understanding. In my nation they only deal with financials and usually work with papers and digitally and never really sell an item. To have a bank to create a product and then sell that is not something I have seen before. But in any case, this is the first bank I know of that is doing this and I believe that it should mean something bigger than people expect it to mean.

Maybe not as much as they think it would, but it is certainly something that we should all be considering at this point as a wonderful start, it could grow from here and become something usual and if all banks start to offer crypto services it would only mean good things for us.

[Wimex]

All employees will be educated in workshops about Bitcoin, including the most important topics.

Only Bitcoin will be offered:

„We will only offer Bitcoin, not other Crypto assets. Quite simply because only Bitcoin is really a decentralized blockchain application and from our point of view only Bitcoin offers sufficient security against manipulation. All other crypto assets are not comparable to Bitcoin. Above all, they are not decentralized, but there are companies or business models behind influencing the respective Crypto value.“

It is evident that this German bank made a strategic and evolutionary decision; instructing your employees about bitcoin and all the technology it encompasses will give them favorable results, since they will know how to manipulate the information and take the necessary measures in the face of any inconvenience, which will allow greater efficiency when carrying out the work. Bitcoin is a currency that will possibly dominate the financial part in a few years, and it is in itself the main currency, it has no comparison, so orienting yourself on this path is the ideal way to guarantee a significant position in the world  in a future not too distant .

[fillippone]

Raffaisen Volksbank Bayern Mitte is moving in the right direction.



They are selling Hardware wallet, but also letting their customers deposit the Bitcoin in their cold storage.
Not everyone has the possibility, or the knowledge to self-custody.
The choice is theirs.

[cheezcarls]

Recently, a famous German Bank (Volksbanken Raiffeisenbanken, Bayern Mitte) has announced to consider offering Bitcoin services. It happened a few days ago already but it’s a very bullish news if you look at 2 facts:


1. All Volks- und Raiffeisenbanken in Germany will be likely to follow and have around 30 millions of customers.


2. How it was announced:

• All employees will be educated in workshops about Bitcoin, including the most important topics.
• Andreas Streb, board director, said „sooner or later, Bitcoin will be important for every Bank and every company“, so he suggested to start adopting it as soon as possible because it’s important for him to stay ahead of foreign players or even local startups. In addition he wants to offer a safe, established environment for his customers to avoid the risk to get scammed by shady foreign exchanges or getting hacked.
• Only Bitcoin will be offered:
  „We will only offer Bitcoin, not other Crypto assets. Quite simply because only Bitcoin is really a decentralized blockchain application and from our point of view only Bitcoin offers sufficient security against manipulation. All other crypto assets are not comparable to Bitcoin. Above all, they are not decentralized, but there are companies or business models behind influencing the respective Crypto value.“
• Most important point: it’s important to own your Bitcoins:
  „The most important topic when trading or storing Bitcoin is to be owner of your so-called private key, (secret key allowing access to your Bitcoin). This is where our first considerations were made.
  Which trustworthy solutions can we offer for our customers? Many crypto platforms only give limited or no access to private keys because all Bitcoins are centrally stored on behalf of the customer.
  […] Bitcoin centrally stored by platforms is of course an interesting target for hackers. This also counteracts the decentralized storage in the Bitcoin blockchain. That's why we were looking for solutions in which the customer keeps his private key himself and can therefore own his Bitcoin himself.“

It’s a very bullish signal if a board director of a German bank points out what’s important about Bitcoin (education about Bitcoin’s tech, supporting a really decentralized coin (no shitcoins), not your keys not your coins).
We would expect such statements from most long-time forum members, but it’s surprising to hear it from a board director of a German bank.
100% bullish.

It was published here (German), very recommended read (if you translate it): https://www.profil.bayern/12-2021/praxis/bitcoin-wir-lassen-unsere-kunden-nicht-alleine/

This will give Bitcoin a long-term push because of the German bank’s support about it alone and not other cryptocurrencies. It’s very bullish for me in my opinion. Hopefully in a slow but surely, other crypto-friendly banks would also do the same thing.

Here in the Philippines, there are only a few banks who are friendly to Bitcoin (and there’s even one bank named UnionBank of the Philippines who had its own government-regulated Bitcoin ATM). Hopefully more banks would embrace and accept Bitcoin in open arms, but it’s not going to be easy and swift.

[rmhuntley]

bitcoin is indeed very difficult to hack has a very strong private key so it is very rare for hacking by irresponsible people if indeed one of the banks in Germany announces the adoption of bitcoin will certainly be a very good thing for the survival of bitcoin in the future considering that bitcoin is currently in dire need of adoption from several companies and various groups if this is really realized what one German bank said where they announced they would adopt bitcoin, and we as miners really hope that this process can be realized soon

[SeezeFire]

Recently, a famous German Bank (Volksbanken Raiffeisenbanken, Bayern Mitte) has announced to consider offering Bitcoin services. It happened a few days ago already but it’s a very bullish news if you look at 2 facts:


1. All Volks- und Raiffeisenbanken in Germany will be likely to follow and have around 30 millions of customers.


2. How it was announced:

• All employees will be educated in workshops about Bitcoin, including the most important topics.
• Andreas Streb, board director, said „sooner or later, Bitcoin will be important for every Bank and every company“, so he suggested to start adopting it as soon as possible because it’s important for him to stay ahead of foreign players or even local startups. In addition he wants to offer a safe, established environment for his customers to avoid the risk to get scammed by shady foreign exchanges or getting hacked.
• Only Bitcoin will be offered:
  „We will only offer Bitcoin, not other Crypto assets. Quite simply because only Bitcoin is really a decentralized blockchain application and from our point of view only Bitcoin offers sufficient security against manipulation. All other crypto assets are not comparable to Bitcoin. Above all, they are not decentralized, but there are companies or business models behind influencing the respective Crypto value.“
• Most important point: it’s important to own your Bitcoins:
  „The most important topic when trading or storing Bitcoin is to be owner of your so-called private key, (secret key allowing access to your Bitcoin). This is where our first considerations were made.
  Which trustworthy solutions can we offer for our customers? Many crypto platforms only give limited or no access to private keys because all Bitcoins are centrally stored on behalf of the customer.
  […] Bitcoin centrally stored by platforms is of course an interesting target for hackers. This also counteracts the decentralized storage in the Bitcoin blockchain. That's why we were looking for solutions in which the customer keeps his private key himself and can therefore own his Bitcoin himself.“

It’s a very bullish signal if a board director of a German bank points out what’s important about Bitcoin (education about Bitcoin’s tech, supporting a really decentralized coin (no shitcoins), not your keys not your coins).
We would expect such statements from most long-time forum members, but it’s surprising to hear it from a board director of a German bank.
100% bullish.

It was published here (German), very recommended read (if you translate it): https://www.profil.bayern/12-2021/praxis/bitcoin-wir-lassen-unsere-kunden-nicht-alleine/

This will give Bitcoin a long-term push because of the German bank’s support about it alone and not other cryptocurrencies. It’s very bullish for me in my opinion. Hopefully in a slow but surely, other crypto-friendly banks would also do the same thing.

Here in the Philippines, there are only a few banks who are friendly to Bitcoin (and there’s even one bank named UnionBank of the Philippines who had its own government-regulated Bitcoin ATM). Hopefully more banks would embrace and accept Bitcoin in open arms, but it’s not going to be easy and swift.

Germany is all over the news.
just read an article which read "Germany Drops Plan To Extend Mortgage Term For Tax-Free Sales Of Crypto To 10 Yrs"

[tygeade]

Raffaisen Volksbank Bayern Mitte is moving in the right direction.



They are selling Hardware wallet, but also letting their customers deposit the Bitcoin in their cold storage.
Not everyone has the possibility, or the knowledge to self-custody.
The choice is theirs.

This is actually an improvement in the world banking where I wouldn't really expect it to be at this time. I mean maybe in 10 years we could see this becoming a bit more common, but in today's world I would have expected banks to be quite against bitcoin instead of being supportive of it.

I am not a German so I do not know what will happen or how it will happen, but I know for sure that this is a good news for bitcoin and Germans who uses bitcoin. Let's hope that they do it much better than any other exchange out there so that people would start to use it more and get the exchanges hear about their shortcomings. Exchanges have been monopoly for too long, they needed competition.