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Author Topic: Ban request for user: franky1  (Read 3071 times)
BlackHatCoiner (OP)
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January 09, 2022, 02:19:02 PM
 #61

The moment any user starts talking about LN transactions supported by other blockchains, their post should be moved to Altcoin Discussion.  Because that is the correct place for that conversation.

How can you just move an individual post? Can't you only move threads?

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Transactions must be included in a block to be properly completed. When you send a transaction, it is broadcast to miners. Miners can then optionally include it in their next blocks. Miners will be more inclined to include your transaction if it has a higher transaction fee.
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January 09, 2022, 02:47:27 PM
 #62

How can you just move an individual post? Can't you only move threads?
You can't move posts from one thread to another. The whole thread has to be moved. At least I have never seen something like that in the past. If that was possible, posts that are off-topic in one sub could easily be moved to a different thread in a sub where they are more appropriate. But that isn't happening. However, maybe admins could create a new thread for an off-topic post in its appropriate sub. I doubt they would be interested in doing that as it's time-consuming. 

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franky1
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January 09, 2022, 03:37:57 PM
 #63

i have a proposal too

anyone advertising LN as bitcoin. as bitcoinL2 as bitcoin2.0. as bitcoin scaling. as anything pretending to be the bitcoin network. should think deeply about their advertising stance of confusing people. and then realise the N of LN means its not the same network as bitcoin, and just avoid advertising it as being part of the bitcoin network.

bitcoin-core. the reference client (which altnet groupies also love describing as the sole place feature upgrades should be allowed via) does not have code that support LN millisats nor LNs peer connection gossip protocols. nor the invoice format

and so because its not part of the reference client of the bitcoin network protocol, its not part of the bitcoin network

EG its the same as saying a exchange is not "bitcoin" but a niche service
if people cannot comprehend the simple task of separating the wording of the function of an exchange from the wording of the function of the bitcoin network. then they need to resist trying to say an exchange is bitcoin

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
BlackHatCoiner (OP)
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Farewell, Leo


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January 09, 2022, 03:44:12 PM
 #64

i have a proposal too

This is why I've made this thread. Because this is not a proposal, but rather a falsely, closed-minded way of understanding things. And it won't get better if you keep reminding it to us every day.

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o_e_l_e_o
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January 09, 2022, 04:29:01 PM
Merited by Pmalek (2)
 #65

How can you just move an individual post? Can't you only move threads?
You can't move posts from one thread to another.
Mods can split a topic, moving one or several posts out of that topic and in to a new topic of their own, which could then be moved to a different board.
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January 09, 2022, 07:42:59 PM
 #66

How can you just move an individual post? Can't you only move threads?
You can't move posts from one thread to another. The whole thread has to be moved. At least I have never seen something like that in the past. If that was possible, posts that are off-topic in one sub could easily be moved to a different thread in a sub where they are more appropriate. But that isn't happening. However, maybe admins could create a new thread for an off-topic post in its appropriate sub. I doubt they would be interested in doing that as it's time-consuming. 
I think moving a post is possible but, we just won't consider it as moving, just the way we do with threads. Like, mods won't want to go through  this because, it would be time consuming looking at the fact that, you not only have to search out an appropriate board but, the thread on which to paste the comment post. Though, this might come handy for the poster if he or she could realise, he or she has made an off-topic post.
Should the user see the post to contain some valuable information, with the fact that, not so many topics are lacking in the forum, the user could edit, cut and delete old post, while pasting it in a thread of value that discusses said topic. The issue here could be that, the reply wasn't inspired by that thread but that could be moving a post in a way.

R


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franky1
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January 09, 2022, 09:13:52 PM
 #67

i have a proposal too

This is why I've made this thread. Because this is not a proposal, but rather a falsely, closed-minded way of understanding things. And it won't get better if you keep reminding it to us every day.

same goes for you and your chums constant reminders of an altnet when people actually want to discuss bitcoin stuff.

you may think that showing an "open" exit door of bitcoin and having an "open" entry of the LN cabin/treehouse.. as being "open" minded. pretending its the same thing because there is a path (of many houses) leading sometimes to the treehouse
hoping people will be open minded enough to not think critically about it or hoping they are open minded to ignore the issues.

but when you do so using coercion, threats, and promises that never seem to flourish.. thats not open. thats opportunistic

yes opportunistic.
it might contain 3 of the 4 letters of 'open'. but its not the same thing

it has been a good laugh seeing you pretend to defend peoples rights to say what they want in a topic you created asking to ban someone for what they said. even when what they said can be backed up by hard data, code and other quotes

dont pretend you defend free speech while at the same time asking for a ban. its one of your fatal flaws, contradictions

my only requests of you were not to F**k off or fork off or disappear or shut up or get banned. but instead to just learn more about what you PR campaign is about, try a different style. or just word it differently so that its not trying to en-cite an exodus away from bitcoin

i do hope you have atleast learned:
LN is a different network (secret is in the 'N')
LN payments/commitments are 2of2 multisig requiring 2 party permission
LN peers communicate/handshake first.
       and then agree on which blockchain/token use as a peg to share value of
               and then fund their agreed currency locks
                     and then form the microchannel payment (promises) to actually make payments
LN payments of 11 decimals are not the same as commitments or bitcoin transactions

if you can learn the ways in which LN is different to bitcoin and blockchains in general.
      then you might finally be able to achieve a good PR campaign for its niche use-case, by explaining why its different

anyway have a good life.

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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January 10, 2022, 03:13:04 AM
 #68

The moment any user starts talking about LN transactions supported by other blockchains, their post should be moved to Altcoin Discussion.  Because that is the correct place for that conversation.

How can you just move an individual post? Can't you only move threads?
The moderators have the ability to take one or more posts in a thread and split them into a new thread. In theory, the ability to put posts in one thread into another thread, however this could confuse readers as posts are sorted by postID so moving multiple posts into another may result in it appearing that someone was responding to a post that existed in another thread when the post was created.

LN transactions can be made across blockchains, provided both support SW. So I could trade BTC for LTC via LN, without trusting anyone. I think these types of posts belong in bitcoin sections as they involve bitcoin and have the potential to improve the bitcoin implementation of LN.
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January 10, 2022, 09:34:02 AM
 #69

LN transactions can be made across blockchains, provided both support SW. So I could trade BTC for LTC via LN, without trusting anyone. I think these types of posts belong in bitcoin sections as they involve bitcoin and have the potential to improve the bitcoin implementation of LN.
If you are exchanging altcoins such as Litecoin for Bitcoin or vice versa, that's a topic and discussion that belongs to the altcoin boards. If the topic of discussion were to be BTC to fiat or fiat to BTC, it would fit in Bitcoin subs. I don't like that rule, but that's the way it is.

I experienced it myself when I had one of my threads moved to the altcoin boards recently. mprep explained it to me via PMs because I asked for clarification. I dislike the rule, but I respect the decision and understand the explanation. I would like to see it changed because the altcoin boards will kill any attempt on a civilized discussion and exchange of ideas. 

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January 10, 2022, 10:10:59 AM
Merited by LeGaulois (1)
 #70

so whats the rule for bitcoin sats for altnet millisats

or better analogy
bitcoin sats for sidechain LBTC, Wbtc, and others(like msats)

and also, whats the rule for adverting altnets like LN, liquid or bch as "bitcoin2.0"

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Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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January 10, 2022, 01:11:26 PM
Merited by The Sceptical Chymist (2)
 #71

He might be wrong, his opinions might be loud and in-your-face, but the only thing I'd support is people shunning him if they don't like what he has to say.

The best way to do that is to use the ignore button.  That way we can preserve freedom of speech and at the same time you don't have to see posts you know you're not going to want to see.
This is exactly my stance too. We don't have to look at others with disdain because they hold a contrary opinion to ours. What if later ours was found to be wrong and theirs right? What happens then? I believe some of us here might've read about the reaction of the world when the first set of Greek philosophers said the world was spherical. The popular belief then was that the world wasnt. At the end, we know the right thing now. The best anyone can do if they don't like the sound of his opinion is to use the ignore button. That's one of the reasons it's there.

I think the call for a ban for franky1 is an overkill.

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January 10, 2022, 02:28:08 PM
Merited by BlackHatCoiner (2)
 #72

We don't have to look at others with disdain because they hold a contrary opinion to ours.

My disdain isn't because franky1 has different opinions.  It's because half the time their opinions aren't relevant.  

Imagine if you were having a conversation with someone about how you prefer your coffee/tea.  Then imagine I burst in ranting about how a kettle doesn't have to be used to boil water.  It could just as easily be used to boil urine.  My statement is factually accurate, despite the part where it's fair to assume that neither of you like your beverages with boiling piss in them.  So the point I'm raising is not remotely relevant to the conversation at hand.  

What if I then take it a step further and accuse you of dishonesty because you are failing to disclose to the person you were speaking with that kettles can be used to boil urine?  I declare that it's somehow immoral to assume that coffee/tea would always made with water.  And then I then decide to disrupt every future conversation you have about hot beverages to remind everyone that kettles can be used to boil urine.

Do you see the problem?  It's completely obnoxious behaviour.

When a topic is posted in Bitcoin (water) Discussion, franky1 should not be derailing the conversation to talk about "other networks" (piss).

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January 10, 2022, 02:58:21 PM
 #73

When a topic is posted in Bitcoin (water) Discussion, franky1 should not be derailing the conversation to talk about "other networks" (piss).

He seems to be upset that the discussion is not really about water but about... uhmmm... struggling with analogy here.... snowballs? that can be redeemed for water but are not water.

I'm not gonna go on a crusade here but I do find it curious that a hardline approach to non-Bitcoin topics (e.g. posting about smart contracts or GPUs can get your thread moved to altcoin boards) doesn't apply to LN. Perhaps to make things clearly delineated we need an LN board (or a Layer 2 board) that was suggested numerous times but never got traction because apparently there isn't enough post volume on LN topics. Which ironically franky1 can help us with.
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January 10, 2022, 03:08:48 PM
Merited by NeuroticFish (2)
 #74

I believe some of us here might've read about the reaction of the world when the first set of Greek philosophers said the world was spherical.
Bad analogy. Galileo didn't force you to believe the Earth is spherical. He had made his studies and concluded that it is. The rest were just biased about the perception of the world and would refuse to accept such change. Franky demands from you to stop thinking the way you do and think as he does, because he (thinks he) is right.

I don't want to say again that Lightning brings new things to the table, but I'll have to: It's an innovative solution and does good to everybody. Even to those who don't use it. Franky does have a different way of thinking and we ought to allow him talk. But, you know, if you allowed those propagandistic oppressors in Greece explain you why the Earth is flat you'd get some shitty nonsense on repeat.

Perhaps to make things clearly delineated we need an LN board (or a Layer 2 board) that was suggested numerous times but never got traction because apparently there isn't enough post volume on LN topics.
There is a lot more talk about LN than this pitiful “New forum software” board. Hell, there's more talk about LN even from my local board.

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January 10, 2022, 03:14:16 PM
Last edit: January 10, 2022, 03:38:38 PM by franky1
 #75

We don't have to look at others with disdain because they hold a contrary opinion to ours.

My disdain isn't because franky1 has different opinions.  It's because half the time their opinions aren't relevant.  

Imagine if you were having a conversation with someone about how you prefer your coffee/tea.  Then imagine I burst in ranting about how a kettle doesn't have to be used to boil water.  It could just as easily be used to boil urine.  My statement is factually accurate, despite the part where it's fair to assume that neither of you like your beverages with boiling piss in them.  So the point I'm raising is not remotely relevant to the conversation at hand.  

What if I then take it a step further and accuse you of dishonesty because you are failing to disclose to the person you were speaking with that kettles can be used to boil urine?  I declare that it's somehow immoral to assume that coffee/tea would always made with water.  And then I then decide to disrupt every future conversation you have about hot beverages to remind everyone that kettles can be used to boil urine.

Do you see the problem?  It's completely obnoxious behaviour.

When a topic is posted in Bitcoin (water) Discussion, franky1 should not be derailing the conversation to talk about "other networks" (piss).

1. YOU and your chums jump into BITCOIN topics where people want to discuss scaling BITCOIN NETWORK
2. YOU and your chums jump into BITCOIN topics to advertise LN..
2. i didnt start the swimming pool/hosepipe of piss analogy in the topic you refer to*. im the one saying to you lot to stop talking about other networks in bitcoin specific topics

TRY HARDER

*reference: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5378173.msg58791141
monkeyman wanted to talk about features of things on the bitcoin network
yet, MK4 then meandered into advertising LN
then bitbillo also advertised LN
then jackG then did the same mentioning LN
then avikz also mentioned LN
then o_e_l_e_o also mentioned LN

and thats just in the first 5 replies
hd49278 was first reply not mentioning LN specifically

then titular made another LN advert

i then respond at the blatant overstep of exaggerating LN features/function as a bitcoin2.0 thing advertised as where LN is THE solution

then the LN bunnies all congregate to attack me, simply because i dared to pull apart the LN advert campaign

NeuroticFish and stompix moan about how they cant understand english and THEY compare it using the swimming pool water, hose pipe and piss analogies...(they mentioned those words FIRST)

i then respond using THEIR analogies and words

Perhaps to make things clearly delineated we need an LN board (or a Layer 2 board) that was suggested numerous times but never got traction because apparently there isn't enough post volume on LN topics.

thanks for mentioning this. seems a small group of altnet fangirls think their altnet is talked about more then bitcoin scaling. where they believe there is only 1 person that wants bitcoin to evolve.

yes LN specific topics are few and far between which is why the altnet fangirls inject themselves into every bitcoin scaling topic to derail it into advertising their altnet,

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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January 10, 2022, 03:34:21 PM
 #76

1. you jump into BITCOIN scaling topics to advertise LN.

And that is acceptable when the sender and recipient use BITCOIN.  It is not acceptable to start talking about other blockchains where the sender and recipient are NOT USING THOSE BLOCKCHAINS.

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January 10, 2022, 03:41:11 PM
 #77

1. you jump into BITCOIN scaling topics to advertise LN.

And that is acceptable when the sender and recipient use BITCOIN.  It is not acceptable to start talking about other blockchains where the sender and recipient are NOT USING THOSE BLOCKCHAINS.

go cry to some one that cares, like your chums that use an altnet.

you know the altnet that are not bitcoin specific but allow channels with lots of blockchains.. you know the one its called LN.
remember.. .. oh wait are you having one of them moments where your are flipping sides again and pretending you are not a LN fan and denying any memory of ever saying such.

maybe if your tried to learn about LN rather then just follow some group speach you might understand LN better and how its not a bitcoin fixed system.

give yourself 3 weeks, your desire to advertise the ALTnet will return.. usually does after a 3 week mind flip flop event, you have a known pattern.

i do laugh when you cry victim even when evidence shows you're the one poking the bear, trying to get it to bite. hence i have no sympathy for you.

if you don't like it that i dont hug, kiss, pat you on the back and give you merit everytime you cry.. maybe you should stop getting bears to bite you. then you have no reason to cry

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Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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January 11, 2022, 07:29:54 AM
 #78

Did you message franky when you made this topic? That'd probably have been a better way to go about this if you didn't.

Also banning people for their views is something I don't think this forum has engaged with and probably shouldn't. It's up for users to discuss others views, not just an "I don't like them: smite".

then jackG then did the same mentioning LN

There are many suggestions for improving throughput and speed already that haven't been adopted (and some throughput work seems to be in the pipeline too, things just take a while for the bitcoin devs to adopt.

I also remember receiving similar complaints when I used to suggest litecoin for its speed and low fees. Both are things that rely on blockchain technology and are usable and testable now, we don't have to wait for a 2 year roadmap from the bitcoin devs to test out certain parts of the flexibility of crypto and blockchain (this is not an attack on the devs, it's a mention that picking something less proven but testable can be used elsewhere). I don't think I fully agree with the centralised vision for the LN too but I'd expect there to be decentralised solutions/communities that spring from it.

The idea that bitcoin and altcoins are separate is not one that needs to continue, as I've said before, if everything's open source bitcoin can adopt the strangths of other coins anyway.
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January 11, 2022, 05:54:31 PM
 #79

the gripe i have about these other networks is not that they exist.
yes people can choose which home they sit in or visit regularly/irregularly.

its the matter of them calling these other networks bitcoin2.0. and coercing people to exodus bitcoin for these other networks. tarnishing bitcoin by saying it cant/will never scale. saying it should not be used for daily purchases. etc etc

nothing wrong with having a niche service that fits a demograph that want something different. as long as they explain the differences and the risk factors they may come across when using this different thing.

like exchanges. people can use them but people should be aware of the 'not your key. not your coin' risk. aswell as highlight examples of being 'goxxed' (mtgox shutdown and value loss)

its like mentioning altcoins. showing how BSV is 51% attacked regularly and court transcripts of CSW saying he wants to brutalise the code to gain access to coins he has no keys for.

its like highlighting that if someone just has 1 channels on LN their 'payment success' is not 100% guaranteed.
its like highlighting that if someone just has channels on LN their partner may stall/delay signing or do other malicious things
its like highlighting that if someone just has channels on LN they need to watch 24/7 to notice a malicious partner broadcast
and so on

but to just uptopian fantasy PR that LN/BSV is bitcoin2.0 and the solution to bitcoin utility of all users no matter the value they want to use.. thats just BAD on so many levels

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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January 11, 2022, 07:06:05 PM
Merited by BlackHatCoiner (1)
 #80

its the matter of them calling these other networks bitcoin2.0.

I think you'll find, in the example you linked to the ONLY person to refer to it as "bitcoin 2.0" was YOU.  Stop projecting your psychosis onto others, please.


and coercing people to exodus bitcoin for these other networks

If the sender and the recipient both agree to use Bitcoin, where is the "exodus"?  The funds never leave the Bitcoin blockchain, you raving loon.  No funds can ever leave the blockchain.  Why doesn't a single argument you present make an ounce of sense?

If anything, you are the one promoting other blockchains because you literally won't shut up about them while the rest of us are trying to talk about Bitcoin.  It is clear that LN can be used with other compatible blockchains.  But that is completely off-topic for the Bitcoin Discussion board.  Start a topic in the Altcoin Discussion board, because that's where it belongs.  

This is not a difficult concept.  Anyone is free to discuss LN when the sender and recipient are both using Bitcoin, because it's supported by Bitcoin's blockchain.  If you want to talk about LN being supported by other blockchains, it is not relevant and does not belong in Bitcoin discussion.

As a side point, you also fail to inform all the people you're trying to "save" from us "fangirls" that far fewer people use those other blockchains and their experience will likely be less favourable.  If you are permitted to continue derailing topics by talking about altcoins, then why aren't you making it clear to people that the chances of having a payment routed on Vertcoin's Lightning network is effectively less than 1%?  Oh look, suddenly it is you who are being the "utopian dreamer" and acting as though people will have the same experience on other blockchains.  Two can play at that game, shitweasel.


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