Ban request for user: franky1

[BlackHatCoiner]

Did you message franky when you made this topic? That'd probably have been a better way to go about this if you didn't.

I honestly can't communicate with franky. It becomes impossible for me after a while, I don't know about others.

It's up for users to discuss others views, not just an "I don't like them: smite".

First of all, franky doesn't just discuss other views and second, that's what I said;

It's down to you to support my statement that what he does is trolling.

What I also said is that I've changed my mind about the ban request, but you decided to answer like there's no discussion made.

nothing wrong with having a niche service that fits a demograph that want something different. as long as they explain the differences and the risk factors they may come across when using this different thing.

They do explain the risk factors such as the cheat that can result in a penalty transaction, the loss of funds by losing the backups or even the loss of funds by going offline.

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[franky1]

doomad:
(normal grammar naziism about thinking i mean exact buzzword, rather than PR campaign context (meaning) that results in advertising LN as the next bitcoin. or the next evolution of bitcoin or 'is the bitcoin network'
EG 'layer two' L2 bitcoin layer, bitcoin solution. "

It is layer 2.
It operates on top of Bitcoin, ergo it's a layer.  

you might want to check the bitcoin course code for any lines of code that have the peer connection stuff related to connecting to LN.. oh wait, ill save you time.. there are none
so to highlight ill quote your misleading words

Neither.  They are connected networks, not separate.  Misleading question.
....
Oh good.  Something that I can actually answer without accepting any misleading rhetoric.  LN does function on top of other blockchains.  And that's a positive quality, not a negative one.  If other networks are deploying LN to allow people to transact off-chain, then it must have some useful purpose.  My view is forever locked in.  I can now never deny that other altcoins can use LN.  Although I can't think of a time where I ever tried to deny that.  So, congratulations, I guess?  What did you hope to achieve by this?

take this little mis information above.. pretending LN is 'connected to bitcoin'

(my printer is connected to my PC and my PC uses the internet. this does not mean my printer is a layer of the internet, or is the internet or is connected to the internet. or is internet L2)

bitcoin reference protocol client(bitcoin core) has no code in it to connect to the LN
LN has no code to connect to bitcoin network. it just API call one software to another software at local level not network level
(my printer USB comms my PC. my PC ethernet calls my internet hub. .... my printer does not use the internet, th einternet does not use my printer)

all bitcoin does is lock value in. that is it.

bitcoin core(bitcoin network protocol reference client) does not have the handshake/'gossip' protocols of LN
bitcoins core network protocol client does not have code for 'channels' etc etc
bitcoin networks DNS seed does not list LN nodes along side bitcoin nodes

lightning networks DNS seed does not list bitcoin nodes along side lightning nodes
...
LN is a separate network. when handshaking peers on the LN network using LN based software. you are not at that point subject to bitcoin.
bitcoin-core (bitcoin network reference client) does not have the LN handshake peer connection protocol. thus LN is not a bitcoin thing

once established on LN via LN software, you can then set channels that used locked pegged coin of many blockchains (that never leaves a blockchain network) and you then transact on LN using millisat tokens pegged at 1sat:1000msat.
but LN is not transacting btc because btc does not leave the bitcoin network

The funds never leave the Bitcoin blockchain,

gotta laugh when doomad was saying how LN transacts btc.. then contradicts by saying (finally truthfully) that btc never leaves the bitcoin network.
(thank you Doomad for finally admitting such, one step forward for you, dont step back later though)

They do explain the risk factors such as the cheat that can result in a penalty transaction, the loss of funds by losing the backups or even the loss of funds by going offline.

not always.. like the ones trying to deny the 90% fail rate of the 2018 LN pizza experiment. and a LN devs 70% fail rate being brushed under the carpet...with "i dont know why they failed. maybe they took another route"

heck even you just glossed over the crucial stuff..
"They do explain the risk factors such as the cheat that can result in a penalty transaction"
said so relaxed as if its a given/nothing to worry about/non issue... not explaining that a penalty is not implemented if someone cheat. its implemented if when someone cheats someone else is there to spot the cheat and "can" if they have the access implement a penalty.

its like saying dont worry if your bank account is hacked the bank will pay you back. hinting to go ahead and not worry about security/getting hacked.
without explaining thats not always the case and involves a headache of admin and conversation and negotiation. its not some auto-refund. and its not a 100% guarantee. people should actually care about their account security.

its like saying dont worry about depositing into MTGox in 2013, the court system is there.. try saying that to those that lost to MTGox in 2013-4, they will look at you and laugh and say you should try to tell people about 'not your key not your coin' and only deposit what your willing to lose, dont deposit into custodians long term and other things.

these glossing's over make people feel that LN is safe because a penalty clause is there.. without stating that penalty clause doesnt activate if cheated automatically. it requires being watched 24/7 to notice a cheat. and having ability to use the penalty.

[DooMAD]

*noise*

And here we reach the inevitable point in the topic where this user starts spouting technobabble.  Something that gives a vague pretense of trying to sound scientific, but is essentially just attempting to mask their logical fallacy with a wall of text.

They simultaneously accept that funds never leave the Bitcoin blockchain when using LN, but deny LN and Bitcoin are connected.

It cannot be both.

Watch them squirm.



//EDIT:
Yep, franky1 cries "grammar" because his special brain doesn't do logic.  He can't counter the argument, so he whines about unrelated things.  Including something to do with me quoting an article and claiming them to be my words when they aren't.  Undeniably a sociopath.

[LoyceV]

its the matter of them calling these other networks bitcoin2.0.

I think you'll find, in the example you linked to the ONLY person to refer to it as "bitcoin 2.0" was YOU.

I was thinking the same thing: I've only seen "Bitcoin 2.0" used by franky1. But in the topic you referred to, 9 posts above franky1's posts in which he mentions "bitcoin2.0" 5 times, it's mentioned in some shitcoin's signature:

all these subliminal and subtle hints that it IS bitcoin2.0.

Maybe the "subliminal" signature worked on franky1?

I honestly can't communicate with franky. It becomes impossible for me after a while, I don't know about others.

I feel you:

I'm not a native English speaker, and it's kinda hard to understand what you mean if you talk about "altnetters", "flip flop", "waffy clauses" and "flip floppers".

[dkbit98]

I honestly can't communicate with franky. It becomes impossible for me after a while, I don't know about others.

You two are having some history for sure, and I think it started with full and pruned nodes discussion if not even earlier.
Sometimes it is nice to talk with someone that is totally opposite from you and you don't have to agree with them, but if you can't stand them anymore you can always click magical Ignore button.
It solves many problems in forum, shame it's not working so good in real life  

I was thinking the same thing: I've only seen "Bitcoin 2.0" used by franky1. But in the topic you referred to, 9 posts above franky1's posts in which he mentions "bitcoin2.0" 5 times, it's mentioned in some shitcoin's signature

I saw many people talking about mythical bitcoin 2.0 and it can be applied to all shitcoins that ever existed and tried to make a ''better'' bitcoin.
Just for fun I searched who mentioned that phrase most in forum and I got some interesting results... mister frankyone is in top five of the list with 90 times, but absolute champion is Vlad2Vlad, followed closely by philipma1957 and JayJuanGee.

Code:

1. Vlad2Vlad [110]
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280. BlindMayorBitcorn [9]
281. Bossfidelity [9]
282. Buffer Overflow [9]
283. Cassius [9]
284. CryptoCalendars.Com [9]
285. CuriousGeorge [9]
286. DoublerHunter [9]
287. Elwar [9]
288. Fredomago [9]
289. Gavin Andresen [9]
290. Herbert2020 [9]
291. Hueristic [9]
292. Its About Sharing [9]
293. JTripathy [9]
294. MaGNeT [9]
295. N12 [9]
296. NotLambchop [9]
297. NutMasterTardd [9]
298. Raja_MBZ [9]
299. S4VV4S [9]
300. Slark [9]
301. TKeenan [9]
302. Teraboy [9]
303. ThiagoCMC [9]
304. TimeTeller [9]
305. TwinWinNerD [9]
306. VoskCoin [9]
307. Xester [9]
308. Yaunfitda [9]
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310. adaseb [9]
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315. bulanula [9]
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318. deathcode [9]
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320. efxtrader [9]
321. fartbags [9]
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341. Abdussamad [8]
342. Alex077 [8]
343. BTCMILLIONAIRE [8]
344. BTCspace [8]
345. Baofeng [8]
346. BitHub.pl [8]
347. Brandon Cheliak [8]
348. Cheesus [8]
349. Coin-1 [8]
350. CoinHunter [8]
351. Coyster [8]
352. CtrlAltBernanke420 [8]
353. Dabs [8]
354. Etlase2 [8]
355. EvilDave [8]
356. Febo [8]
357. Harriti [8]
358. IIOII [8]
359. JeffBrad12 [8]
360. Kakmakr [8]
361. KingScorpio [8]
362. Kiritsugu [8]
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364. Mickeyb [8]
365. NILIcoin [8]
366. NewLiberty [8]
367. ParabellumLite [8]
368. Pelunize12 [8]
369. SUPERANTONIO [8]
370. Streets 2.0 [8]
371. SwC_Poker [8]
372. TWW [8]
373. Tramle091296 [8]
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375. abstream [8]
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377. barabbas [8]
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387. fullhdpixel [8]
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392. havoc928 [8]
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395. klintay [8]
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397. lobo13hf [8]
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407. samuraijin [8]
408. sheenshane [8]
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410. takngantuk [8]
411. thezerg [8]
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413. watergold [8]
414. zeze18 [8]
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416. AgentofCoin [7]
417. AlyattesLydia [7]
418. AtheistAKASaneBrain [7]
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420. BittBurger [7]
421. Botnake [7]
422. Bttzed03 [7]
423. CaVO32 [7]
424. Carlor [7]
425. ChefImGartenPavillion [7]
426. Come-In-Behind [7]
427. DNotesEDU [7]
428. Dafar [7]
429. Danslip [7]
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431. Do_zzze [7]
432. Dudeperfect [7]
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434. Fundamentals Of [7]
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442. Lupus_Yonderboy [7]
443. MPOE-PR [7]
444. PLUTUSit [7]
445. Peter Todd [7]
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447. Psynthax [7]
448. Pursuer [7]
449. Q7 [7]
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451. RoadTrain [7]
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457. Swordsoffreedom [7]
458. The One [7]
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460. VanDeinsberg12 [7]
461. Viscore [7]
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536. Captain Corporate [6]
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541. Corepolitics [6]
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573. MICRO [6]
574. Marc De Mesel [6]
575. Mario241077 [6]
576. MatTheCat [6]
577. Metroid [6]
578. MicroGuy [6]
579. Miz4r [6]
580. Mr.Dux [6]
581. Neo_Coin [6]
582. Netnox [6]
583. Nivia1st [6]
584. Operatr [6]
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586. Raflesia [6]
587. Renampun [6]
588. RockHound [6]
589. Saint-loup [6]
590. Sanitough [6]
591. Smitty Werben Man Jensen [6]
592. Soepkip [6]
593. Sukrim [6]
594. Synaesthesia [6]
595. TangentC [6]
596. Ten98 [6]
597. TheBitcoinRush [6]
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603. Zackgeno96 [6]
604. _mr_e [6]
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675. truffacoin [6]
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679. zunkuespa [6]
680. --Encrypted-- [5]
681. ACGCrypto [5]
682. Altryist [5]
683. Armando [5]
684. BChydro [5]
685. BeeCoin [5]
686. Beparanf [5]
687. Billbags [5]
688. BitAddict [5]
689. Bittzy78 [5]
690. Blazin8888 [5]
691. Cannacoin [5]
692. CapGelatik [5]
693. Chang Hum [5]
694. CopMom [5]
695. CrimBit [5]
696. CryptoDatabase [5]
697. DFiLeR [5]
698. Darooghe [5]
699. Deathwing [5]
700. Desscount [5]
701. Didz [5]
702. DieJohnny [5]
703. Distinctin [5]
704. Domelion [5]
705. EdenHazard [5]
706. FACTOM [5]
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708. FanEagle [5]
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710. Fatman3001 [5]
711. Faxmate [5]
712. Furious 7 [5]
713. Gimpeline [5]
714. HalFinneysBrain [5]
715. HostFat [5]
716. Javi_Anibarro [5]
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725. Kupid002 [5]
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729. MarquiseMuseum [5]
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733. MoonShadow [5]
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735. NathanJB [5]
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737. Newbie1022 [5]
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739. OgNasty [5]
740. OneLedger [5]
741. PHI1618 [5]
742. Paycoinzzz [5]
743. Poker Player [5]
744. Polar91 [5]
745. ProzCoin [5]
746. RBF [5]
747. RJF [5]
748. S3052 [5]
749. SOSLOVE868 [5]
750. SacriFries11 [5]
751. Sadlife [5]
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761. Thavash [5]
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765. TheUltraElite [5]
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788. btc-room101 [5]
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793. carlfebz2 [5]
794. casascius [5]
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796. ccedk_pr [5]
797. ciappa [5]
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800. cunguks [5]
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802. dNote [5]
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804. danosphere [5]
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807. efialtis [5]
808. empowering [5]
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810. fractastical [5]
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812. goaldigger [5]
813. gollum [5]
814. gotminer [5]
815. gunhell16 [5]
816. hashforce101 [5]
817. hilariousandco [5]
818. hvezdasmrti [5]
819. immakingacoin [5]
820. imstillthebest [5]
821. intervalue [5]
822. jaberwock [5]
823. jdbtracker [5]
824. john718hp [5]
825. jrmg [5]
826. kapalmabur [5]
827. kenshi222 [5]
828. kopes18 [5]
829. krishnapramod [5]
830. lassdas [5]
831. lionheart78 [5]
832. longyenthanh [5]
833. lordoliver [5]
834. maco [5]
835. maku [5]
836. marine4u [5]
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838. mizerydearia [5]
839. mmitech [5]
840. mrbum805 [5]
841. nakaone [5]
842. negeroy [5]
843. neutraLTC [5]
844. nikki4 [5]
845. nioc [5]
846. nomenclatur [5]
847. noobtrader [5]
848. nor9845 [5]
849. ololajulo [5]
850. onecall123 [5]
851. oneyesoneno [5]
852. patt0 [5]
853. pedrillo0 [5]
854. pedrog [5]
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856. piramida [5]
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860. qwizzie [5]
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862. rPman [5]
863. realdantreccia [5]
864. redsun114 [5]
865. ripper234 [5]
866. rocks [5]
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875. sniveling [5]
876. so98nn [5]
877. spirits [5]
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880. sussex [5]
881. tokyopotato [5]
882. topman21 [5]
883. trader19 [5]
884. trickyriky [5]
885. tygeade [5]
886. umbara ardian [5]
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888. unusualfacts30 [5]
889. vokain [5]
890. vsyc [5]
891. wachtwoord [5]
892. xZork [5]
893. xbet.io [5]
894. xfli [5]
895. xnova [5]
896. xskl0 [5]
897. yazher [5]
898. zimmah [5]
899. -ck [4]
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901. 1krona [4]
902. 20kevin20 [4]
903. 247exchange [4]
904. 777Jolami [4]
905. AZwarel [4]
906. AakZaki [4]
907. Ahimoth [4]
908. AjithBtc [4]
909. AlexGR [4]
910. Anon136 [4]
911. Axel-Spanish [4]
912. B1tUnl0ck3r [4]
913. BTCIndia [4]
914. BTCat [4]
915. BTCevo [4]
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917. Bergmann_Christoph [4]
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920. BitChick [4]
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930. Coin7t [4]
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934. Coolstoryteller [4]
935. CryptKeeper [4]
936. Cryptoslave [4]
937. Cryptrade.io [4]
938. Dart315 [4]
939. David Latapie [4]
940. David98 [4]
941. Denongels [4]
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943. Driv3n [4]
944. DroomieChikito [4]
945. EFS [4]
946. EcuaMobi [4]
947. Emitdama [4]
948. Equality 7-2521 [4]
949. EternalWingsofGod [4]
950. Ezravdb [4]
951. FastForwarded [4]
952. Fernandez [4]
953. GazetaBitcoin [4]
954. Genesis1337 [4]
955. Gheka [4]
956. Gorosden [4]
957. GreekGeek [4]
958. GreenBits [4]
959. HabBear [4]
960. Hallmader [4]
961. Hamphser [4]
962. Harlot [4]
963. HeliKopterBen [4]
964. Holliday [4]
965. IamNotSure [4]
966. IconicExpert [4]
967. Ignore@YourPeril [4]
968. Interized [4]
969. JPage [4]
970. Jan [4]
971. JeromeTash [4]
972. JollyGood [4]
973. Jpja [4]
974. K210 [4]
975. Kahoy01 [4]
976. Kai Proctor [4]
977. Kang TB [4]
978. Kiki112 [4]
979. Kong Hey Pakboy [4]
980. Krabby [4]
981. LTZ-Team [4]
982. LbtalkL [4]
983. LeGaulois [4]
984. Lexiko [4]
985. LibertValance [4]
986. Lolcust [4]
987. Lorenzo [4]
988. LouVandetta [4]
989. Lucasgabd [4]
990. MCobian [4]
991. MarioV [4]
992. Maslate [4]
993. Michael_S [4]
994. Mike Christ [4]
995. Minecache [4]
996. Mobius [4]
997. ModaFuka1994 [4]
998. Mota [4]
999. Mpamaegbu [4]
1000. MysteryMiner [4]

https://ninjastic.space/search?content=bitcoin%202.0

EDIT: there could be some errors with this stats, maybe someone could propose some way to fix it.

[LoyceV]

Code:

12. LoyceV [48]

https://ninjastic.space/search?content=bitcoin%202.0

I tried that search before, but Ninjastic took forever to load (and then I forgot about it). As far as I remember, I've never typed that phrase. I checked Ninjastic and found many occasions where I quote franky1 (or vise versa).

EDIT: there could be some errors with this stats, maybe someone could propose some way to fix it.

I don't think a search without quotes is possible.

[dkbit98]

I don't think a search without quotes is possible.

I did the same search but without space this time, so I was typing bitcoin2.0 and I got result with much less members, and mister frankyone is again on top, this can't be a coincidence
Again, this result could be with some errors, probably because NinjasticSpace website and TryNinja don't have any smart bots or algorithms for detecting multiple words with accuracy.
It did record you two times saying this phrase and it was all done today, same as for myself... space makes a big difference.

Code:

1. BigKush [133]
2. davidpbrown [20]
3. franky1 [18]
4. TimeBits [11]
5. marcus_of_augustus [8]
6. crazy_rabbit [6]
7. DooMAD [5]
8. adamstgBit [4]
9. benthach [4]
10. provenceday [4]
11. BTCspace [3]
12. BlackHatCoiner [3]
13. p2pbucks [3]
14. prophetx [3]
15. BitcoinTangibleTrust [2]
16. CoinRocka [2]
17. Cryddit [2]
18. JoeyD [2]
19. LoyceV [2]
20. bitcoin2.0 [2]
21. btcshop [2]
22. fox19891989 [2]
23. jonald_fyookball [2]
24. jonoiv [2]
25. profitofthegods [2]
26. seriouscoin [2]
27. skull88 [2]
28. stoat [2]
29. viboracecata [2]
30. 0nlyBTC [1]
31. 322i0n [1]
32. 420 [1]
33. 99bitcoins [1]
34. Aahzman [1]
35. Abiky [1]
36. Adam_Allcock [1]
37. Altcoin4life [1]
38. Amph [1]
39. ArticMine [1]
40. Aswan [1]
41. Bameras [1]
42. BigJohn [1]
43. BillyBobZorton [1]
44. BitTrade [1]
45. Bitcoin2Team [1]
46. Bountyful [1]
47. BuyBuyBitcoin [1]
48. Clock Loop [1]
49. CoinCidental [1]
50. CryptoBry [1]
51. CryptopreneurBrainboss [1]
52. DeathAndTaxes [1]
53. Eamorr [1]
54. EndTheFed321 [1]
55. Ente [1]
56. EvilDave [1]
57. Fernandez [1]
58. Fielding [1]
59. FredericBastiat [1]
60. Gyrsur [1]
61. HYPERfuture [1]
62. Hazir [1]
63. JPage [1]
64. JimboToronto [1]
65. Joshuar [1]
66. JusticeForYou [1]
67. Jybrael [1]
68. KLONE [1]
69. Lauda [1]
70. Leonardo7 [1]
71. MrCrank [1]
72. NTX [1]
73. Newmine [1]
74. NextGenCrypto [1]
75. Nullu [1]
76. Octa XFC [1]
77. Ogig [1]
78. Roberttran [1]
79. SaltySpitoon [1]
80. Sammie Sna [1]
81. Sateetje [1]
82. SaveForrest [1]
83. SgtSpike [1]
84. ShawnLeary [1]
85. Siren [1]
86. Stange99 [1]
87. Sukrim [1]
88. TranTrongit [1]
89. UrsaMajorisBeta [1]
90. UsernameBitcoin [1]
91. Viva! [1]
92. WhatTheGox [1]
93. Wind_FURY [1]
94. Zarathustra [1]
95. amaclin [1]
96. ashour [1]
97. avikz [1]
98. balanghai [1]
99. bassguitarman [1]
100. billyjoeallen [1]
101. biophil [1]
102. bitcool [1]
103. bite01 [1]
104. bitgold [1]
105. bl234st [1]
106. bloods-n-cryptos [1]
107. bluetowel [1]
108. btcseo [1]
109. cbeast [1]
110. coinforecasts [1]
111. davout [1]
112. derpinheimer [1]
113. detters [1]
114. dkbit98 [1]
115. ds06 [1]
116. e-coinomist [1]
117. eaLiTy [1]
118. enet [1]
119. ensurance982 [1]
120. evoorhees [1]
121. fortunecrypto [1]
122. gentlemand [1]
123. gorgoros [1]
124. grondilu [1]
125. helloeverybody [1]
126. hilariousandco [1]
127. hypostatization [1]
128. jake zyrus [1]
129. jakelyson [1]
130. jmlubin [1]
131. jrmg [1]
132. kaya11 [1]
133. leewhat [1]
134. littleblue [1]
135. manselr [1]
136. masternode [1]
137. mercistheman [1]
138. monsanto [1]
139. nakaone [1]
140. nextgencoin [1]
141. okae [1]
142. phantastisch [1]
143. poornamelessme [1]
144. rakesh1_90 [1]
145. rawbot [1]
146. reader31 [1]
147. revcoin [1]
148. riekinho [1]
149. sAt0sHiFanClub [1]
150. seaantel [1]
151. shane [1]
152. slacknation [1]
153. tarmi [1]
154. thejaytiesto [1]
155. thompete [1]
156. umairsaleem [1]
157. yshin365new [1]
158. zcxvbs [1]
159. zenojis [1]
160. ~Coinseeker~ [1]

https://ninjastic.space/search?content=bitcoin2.0

[franky1]

i hear the sounds of the violins of the grammar nazi song..
...
you are failing in debunking the CONTEXT of your advertisings
you know you are trying to pretend LN is bitcoin. using many buzzwords and slogans and mottos and phrases, like bitcoinL2, layer 2 and such, by saying "we never promoted it as (context) bitcoins next big network, bitcoins next evolution because we never said specific buzzword"

its about the CONTEXT of calling LN a bitcoin network or bitcoin solution or the many variations of meaning the same thing as what others try when they say their network is 'bitcoin2.0' even if they dont use the actual buzzword, they still infer it

so try to turn down your grammar nazi buzzword violin music and think beyond your silly buzzwords and realise the context is the point.

its like you punch a bear. and then say "i never touched the bear" trying to pretend you never punched it. because you want to argue that a "touch" is different then a "punch" even though it infers the same thing when someone accuses you of "touching" a bear

so go play your silly games elsewhere. because they dont work on me.
many can and have seen the same group of people inferring LN is bitcoin and an extension upgrade of bitcoin. a solution, etc etc.. even though bitcoin core has no lines of code in regards to LN peer handshaking, micropayment channel creation or route gossip, thus its not anyway near what the inferences by certain people pretend LN is

anyways. some notable names

Code:

7. DooMAD [5]
12. BlackHatCoiner [3]
19. LoyceV [2]
93. Wind_FURY [1]
97. avikz [1]
114. dkbit98 [1]

https://ninjastic.space/search?content=bitcoin2.0

Code:

3. JayJuanGee [107]
12. LoyceV [48]
24. Wind_FURY [34]
51. pooya87 [24]
151. stompix [14]
244. DooMAD [10]
312. bitrefill [9]
459. The Pharmacist [7]
469. avikz [7]
531. BlackHatCoiner [6]
627. gmaxwell [6]
879. suchmoon [5]
https://ninjastic.space/search?content=bitcoin%202.0

oh.. and if doomad is wondering why i used "exodus" buzzword.. well.. its actually Doomads buzzword..

http://bitcoinist.net/core-protocol-issues-can-lead-to-a-bitcoin-exodus/

The recent Bitcoin network issues are a significant threat to the viability and prospects of the Bitcoin ecosystem. In fact, various people are claiming they are leaving Bitcoin and invest their money elsewhere, in some of the more promising blockchain-based projects, such as Ethereum, Maidsafe, and others. But is there a real Bitcoin exodus happening, or is this just a phase community members have to go through before things can take off?

The Bitcoin Exodus Is Slightly Overstated – For Now

One thing’s for sure, though: plenty of people are fed up with the current block size debate and the network issues that have been taking place as of late. While delayed transactions were sorted out eventually after slightly over a full day, the situation pointed out how the Bitcoin network is not ready to handle a significant increase in transactions as of yet.

At the same time, there is a bit of confusion going on in the Bitcoin community as to why the increase to 2MB network blocks is taking so long. Both Bitcoin Core and Bitcoin Classic developer teams seem to agree on this growth, yet it will take at last a few more weeks until it is integrated into the main fork of Bitcoin development. This indecisiveness could lead to a Bitcoin exodus at some point, though.

he mentioned it first in this forum, i just mentioned it as a subtle hint of something.. wondering if he would pick up the hint..

oh and one last point..
even in this topic where people have been saying bitcoin is LN and LN is bitcoin and many varients of such using different buzzwords, slogans, mottos and phrasing inferring the same thing..
DooMAD seems  to have memory issues...

how about realise that LN is not a bitcoin sole feature. it was not designed for bitcoin.. bitcoin actually had to be changed to fit LN, not the other way round

How about realise that we already know that.  You talk as though you're revealing some sort of greater truth to us, like we're total simpletons who don't get it.  We know what we're doing.  It's what we want to do.  

seems he want to forget what he knew. pretend he never learned it. then argue the opposite of what he knew and then cry if ever called a simpleton by later flipping to the opposite of his old debate and pretend he did know it again. .. i am just waiting for him to flip back to things known in 2018. and he can finally stop pretending LN is bitcoin.

but we all know these people like to contradict even themselves and flip their own debate against their own opinion,

funny part is my opinions never flipped. never flopped. cant say the same for others

[BlackHatCoiner]

They simultaneously accept that funds never leave the Bitcoin blockchain when using LN, but deny LN and Bitcoin are connected.

Alright, so let's stop talking about the technical stuff in here. It's clear that franky has a different interpretation about how things work in life. The phrase “connected with” is also a bit misleading. Like what does it mean exactly? In chaos theory (butterfly effect) everything is connected with everything.

You could also state that Lightning is connected with Vitalik Buterin's mom and be correct in certain contexts.

even though bitcoin core has no lines of code in regards to LN peer handshaking, micropayment channel creation or route gossip, thus its not anyway near what the inferences by certain people pretend LN is

This is why it's genius.

anyways. some notable names

Code:

12. BlackHatCoiner [3]

Um... That's me telling you to stop saying the same shit like bitcoin2.0. Oh no! Now I'm at 4.

oh.. and if doomad is wondering why i used "exodus" buzzword.. well.. its actually Doomads buzzword..

Yes, and it was also said by a billion people before DooMAD. It's the way you're using a word that makes you look a bad person, you moron.

[Timelord2067]

i hear the sounds of the violins of the grammar nazi song..

Try reading something instead of typing for the next hour.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party

Code:

~franky1

[franky1]

and coercing people to exodus bitcoin for these other networks

If the sender and the recipient both agree to use Bitcoin, where is the "exodus"?  The funds never leave the Bitcoin blockchain, you raving loon.  No funds can ever leave the blockchain.  Why doesn't a single argument you present make an ounce of sense?

Yes, and it was also said by a billion people before DooMAD. It's the way you're using a word that makes you look a bad person, you moron.

if people are not transacting on the bitcoin network regularly, and instead they are using some cell phone LN app to pay for their coffee(not realistic to carry a PC into starbucks just to buy a coffee). then obviously they are not going to be a full bitcoin node. and instead going to be running a litewallet. with a 'watchtower manager" and a custodial channel(factory hub) that gave them liquidity(and the LN PR group know this scenario, its their game plan)

'loon, moron'? seems im not the one shouting insults regularly.. but its a certain group that loves to poke the bear with insults, then cry when they get bit. (not the first time i highlighted this tactic being used)

also. when vaulting up gold to then use bank notes.. its no longer gold hoarding by general people. but hoarding via banks and thus an exodus of gold hoarding(by general people) and an entrance of fiat hoarding. (wild west gold swapped for crappy fiat)

same goes for the tactic LN PR group want.
lock up bitcoin, get people to play with millisats for weeks/months, give them ways to not settle back to bitcoin, but instead keep 'rebalancing' their millisat joint accounts. and when they finally want out.. the last phase mention how bitcoin is too expensive and offer altcoin as the settled asset(atomic swap).

thats not new economics, nor smart economics, nor anything innovative or original, nor does it benefit millions of bitcoin users.. thats old economics that benefits those who invented the banks (ln channels)

much like how the banks vaulted gold, gave out bank notes and then at redemption of banknotes, offered copper, brass, nickel coins instead of the gold..

its the oldest economic tactic in the book.

even medieval england kings hoarded his villagers gold and handed them out 'notched sticks' to play around with for daily purchases.

..
so when you see a LN fangirl shout how they dont want users to use bitcoin for daily spend activities like buying coffee or food or train tickets or anything people buy regularly.. you can see their game in play

[philipma1957]

and coercing people to exodus bitcoin for these other networks

If the sender and the recipient both agree to use Bitcoin, where is the "exodus"?  The funds never leave the Bitcoin blockchain, you raving loon.  No funds can ever leave the blockchain.  Why doesn't a single argument you present make an ounce of sense?

Yes, and it was also said by a billion people before DooMAD. It's the way you're using a word that makes you look a bad person, you moron.

if people are not transacting on the bitcoin network regularly, and instead they are using some cell phone LN app to pay for their coffee(not realistic to carry a PC into starbucks just to buy a coffee). then obviously they are not going to be a full bitcoin node. and instead going to be running a litewallet. with a 'watchtower manager" and a custodial channel(factory hub) that gave them liquidity(and the LN PR group know this scenario, its their game plan)

'loon, moron'? seems im not the one shouting insults regularly.. but its a certain group that loves to poke the bear with insults, then cry when they get bit. (not the first time i highlighted this tactic being used)

also. when vaulting up gold to then use bank notes.. its no longer gold hoarding by general people. but hoarding via banks and thus an exodus of gold hoarding(by general people) and an entrance of fiat hoarding. (wild west gold swapped for crappy fiat)

same goes for the tactic LN PR group want.
lock up bitcoin, get people to play with millisats for weeks/months, give them ways to not settle back to bitcoin, but instead keep 'rebalancing' their millisat joint accounts. and when they finally want out.. the last phase mention how bitcoin is too expensive and offer altcoin as the settled asset(atomic swap).

thats not new economics, nor smart economics, nor anything innovative or original, nor does it benefit millions of bitcoin users.. thats old economics that benefits those who invented the banks (ln channels)

much like how the banks vaulted gold, gave out bank notes and then at redemption of banknotes, offered copper, brass, nickel coins instead of the gold..

its the oldest economic tactic in the book.

even medieval england kings hoarded his villagers gold and handed them out 'notched sticks' to play around with for daily purchases.

..
so when you see a LN fangirl shout how they dont want users to use bitcoin for daily spend activities like buying coffee or food or train tickets or anything people buy regularly.. you can see their game in play

Actually I side more with franky1 and against the LN network

So if he wants to attack LN network he should.

There is a lot of complexity as to why we should or should not have LN I think in the long run it will hurt BTC but then again maybe not.

@ franky1 on every ln thread you should simply say you think the ln network will kill off btc in the long run.

You should try to limit posts to 1 or 2 per page. but you should keep them up.

I don't post on the LN threads, but I think they could be wrong you could be right.

[franky1]

the issue is for every time i rebutt their altnet advertising, they just enter another debate of "franky1 wrong coz troll" (actually its them becoming the troll)

my remarks explain the concept of how things work on LN using references and things that can be backed up by code and real life stuff.. their remarks dont explain how it works(in their opinion). and just social drama queen how im wrong, without actually providing code, data.

i fully understand im not making their advert campaigns easy for them.
i understand they dont like it.

but i can back up what i say with code, bips and quotes and block data
all they can do is insult and basically say "wrong because troll"(boring and non explanatory rebuttal of no substance)

i have nothing against them deciding they want to use an altnet. i have nothing against them playing around with millisats.
my only issue is them trying to convince others that LN:
is bitcoin
  in the same manner of saying a printer is the internet, just because a printer connects to a PC locally and a pc connects to the internet.(facepalm)

it replaces bitcoin as peoples daily use crypto.
  by pretending millisats are bitcoin, by saying LN peers are bitcoin peers. that the handshaking and code is the same network, and that people then should not use the actual bitcoin. but instead treat msats as bitcoin instead.
(treat bank-promissory-notes as gold(facepalm))

yea it sounds silly to call a printer the internet or call a printer a 'internetL2', or even call the internet a 'printerL2'.
yea its silly to call bank notes a goldL2. or call gold a "bank noteL2"..
but thats their PR campaign. and its just sad how foolish they are about it, to try to believe it soo viciously and adamantly.

they have on multiple occasions shown how they want to call bitcoin the flaw and LN the utopia(facepalm)

i have actually on multiple occasions said if they explain the differences they would have a better campaign. but they declined to change and instead just cried over how im trying to show how LN is different and making people aware of the risks.

it has been a great laugh that they only call me a troll because someone they like called me a troll, because someone-of-someone they liked called me a troll. again just social drama posturing of no merit.
but it is good to use their own contradictions and admissions against them, even if they do forget 3 weeks later that they got debunked.

maybe if they can check their own opinion and stick to an opinion that can be backed up by code and hard data, without contradictions(flip flops) they might have a better narrative. instead of resorting to pages of social drama

in short. if they stick to facts and not social loyalty ass kissing of a certain group. then there would not be any social drama ending in pages of silly arguments

[DooMAD]

the issue is for every time i rebutt their altnet advertising, they just enter another debate of "franky1 wrong coz troll"

(...)

all they can do is insult and basically say "wrong because troll"(boring and non explanatory rebuttal of no substance)

I would call that self-inflicted.

If a forum user has spent years undermining their own credibility by making fallacious and sometimes even libellous statements, most reasonable people will naturally start to doubt what that user is saying.  Cause and effect.  I mean, look at some of the replies in that topic.  You did this to yourself.  People see you as a joke.  

You have fully earned your reputation:

He is a full-time forum troll and a bitcoin hater. Considering that heavy trolling is against the forum rules I am surprised he is still around.

Old members know this piece of shit very well. He is against every major bitcoin update there is because blorgstream bla bla bla typical Roger funded fuckface

Surely in this case it's the same as suing a dog for pissing on your lamppost. They can't help it. It's just what they do.

The screeds of excruciatingly boring shite on this subject are as predictable as the sun rising in the morning. A broken chatbot programmed by a mong with 3 tape recorded phrases to work with would be less predictable.

Franky will always lose his marbles when it comes to anything related to LN.
Unfortunately for him, his arguments are really pathetic and most of the time when he enters discussions he has no clue about what he is talking, no wonder he was banned from certain sections fo the forum.

He's highly annoying and sometimes a flat-out troll but on occasion I've been forced to learn something just to be able to counter his bullshit

And that's just one topic.
But no, we're supposedly the bad guys for not respecting you when all you do is lie through your teeth.  You need to start giving us a reason to take you seriously.  Act like a troll, get treated like a troll.  Take some responsibility for your own actions.  You can't blame us for how we see you.  Well... clearly you can try to blame us, because that's exactly what you're doing now, but we're still going to see you as a troll.

but i can back up what i say with code, bips and quotes and block data

If by that you mean you reference something and then immediately draw a flawed conclusion from it, or deliberately twist it to mean something that was never intended, then sure.  You're the undisputed master of that.  #1 champ.  

I don't post on the LN threads

You should.  I believe you to be a knowledgeable, well-respected member of the board with a great deal of integrity.  I would much rather listen to arguments against LN from users like you.  Your posts would make sense and be based in reality.  The problem is becoming increasingly apparent.  If everyone is piling in to bash franky1's insanely terrible posts, where all he does is alienate people and wind them up, then perhaps the message is getting a little one-sided as a result.  We need sensible posters who can make logical arguments about issues with LN.  Something franky1 has demonstrated time and time again that he simply cannot do.  Please, philipma1957, head over to the other topic and join the discussion so we can have some balance.  


//EDIT:

shame you lost the argument before you even posted it today you were debunked 2 years ago.

In order to debunk something, you have to prove a point.  All you do is find things that sound loosely related to the thing you are talking about and then twist their meaning to pretend they support your stance.  Utterly dishonest scum.  The statement was made unequivocally by bitrefill that you are wrong and all you could do was argue "but millisats" like a brain-damaged parrot:

Calling any of what we do with Lightning fractional or custodial is literally false. The coins in the turbo channel are owned by the recipient the moment they are pushed, they have control and can close the channel to claim them or route a payment to spend them. No one can print new Bitcoin in LN, and no one can double-encumber any coins in LN.

bit refill go into detail about msats vs sats.. i dare you

You are the one who is debunked.

[franky1]

all i read is a Doomad boring personal statement
oh and my description (with reference) on the LN turbo 'debt/credit of unfunded channels..  

If a forum user has spent years undermining their own credibility by making fallacious and sometimes even libellous statements,

giving people balance in a new channel without the 'funding' confirmed(turbo),
nor locked to a keypair set by the customer and service.. (thor(pre locked funds by bitrefill months before customer uses it))
that not libel. thats their feature

'unconfirmed funding' 'voluntary rule agreement' 'custom channel' are THEIR words. not mine
also if you want to read THEIR descriptions. here some other examples of what THEIR feature does

https://medium.com/@akumaigorodski/instant-channels-enable-safe-lightning-payments-with-unconfirmed-funding-8d640defa183

https://github.com/lightning/bolts/issues/565#issuecomment-460601680

'but I prefer more meaningful names for things. I'd suggest zeroconf_spendable_push'

'Dangerous proposal! If you want zero conf, use bcash!!!!! This would be a bad precedent if introduced to LN; however, nobody would stop you from wanting to be robbed though, can't you implement it only for your own biz? tongue
NACK!'

and no dont play the game of reciting "thor" option trying to make "thor" sound like "turbo", or 'turbo' sound like 'thor'. they are different options.
"thor" uses funding logged pegged blockchain confirmed transactions.
"turbo" uses unfunded unconfirmed unlocked balance(no peg)

oh and this:
https://github.com/lightning/bolts/pull/895
note how many times the words 'fake' and 'trust' are mentioned (spoiler 'fake':10  'trust':11)
..
but it has been fun watching you scrape the bottom of the barrel.. trying to find something to argue about.. shame you lost the argument before you even posted it today you were debunked 2 years ago.
im just reminding you.
no need to reply with a cry. just move onto a new subject.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I'm digging up this thread, because I honestly don't know where to elsewhere write about this.

Don't know if he was doing it in the past, but franky1 now apparently disapproves of his posts being deleted, and decides to remake them. You can check it out on ninjastic.space, it's all his posts on "NFTs in the Bitcoin blockchain - Ordinal Theory". I'm perpetually getting notifications of the same shitpost that gets deleted right afterwards. How childish is this?

[digaran]

Isn't he the only recognizable opposition in this forum? Lets just keep silencing the voice of opposition until there is nobody left, and then suck on our thumbs wondering how to find a way to convey our ideas about certain things.

Hearing the opposition is always good because it helps to improve. I don't see anything wrong with his deleted posts other than a dictatorial moderation policy in those dangerous waters ( boards ). Moreover, posting the same content on several topics to emphasize on an  important idea to be considered by others is not a bad thing.

[franky1]

firstly you want to control how i talk.. emphasis control
then you want to control what i talk about emphasis control
then you want to control where i talk emphasis control
then you want to control if i should be allowed to talk emphasis control

hmm very revealing.
it says more about you then me

i have always been clear. this is an open discussion forum.. and i am frank

as for this forum and the reason i reposted a certain post content in the last couple days..

its more so that if you look at the technical discussion topic. there is alot of hype promoting of letting NFT continue. but any real talk of REAL fixes get deleted, removed and not talked about..
just look at the lack of discussion of a real fix.. yet we know the ordinals (buzzword of a type of NFT on bitcoin) are a problem of bloat and other issues..

its not childish to be trying to talk about solutions, nor about critiquing the causes, nor childish to mention what the wider community should be reviewing and pointing their eyes towards causes and real fixes

its childish to have a man child with abilities to delete proposals, solutions and fixes to then has his firends pretend there is no fix and instead promote getting people to make bitcoin a premium expense system to make it unappealing to use as a payment system

achow is abusing his mod privilege

he is mod of too many things. he wants a central point of failure (core) to only be reviewed internally(centrally) where it is moderated by core, and there is no critique or negative words said beyond 'Nack' yep in recent months he wants to add a mod layer to github adding more self serving power, where any critical negative comments are removed. and instead any negative stuff is pretty much only allowed if its fits into a small criteria of formatting to make it difficult to critique a flaw/developer. heck he even wants to change the ACK Nack scheme..

he and a certain fews dont believe in the concept of decentralisation.. and do not believe in independent validation, review, scrutiny, critique.

where instead the very same core maintainers of every part of bitcoin discussion  moderation teams

and yet you want them to have free reign to say and do as they please because "free speech" while then censoring out anything that goes against the core way.

maybe look outslde your childish view of things and think more outside your playground

[BlackHatCoiner]

Isn't he the only recognizable opposition in this forum?

In terms of mental health, sure.

Hearing the opposition is always good because it helps to improve.

But hearing the same bullshit, for millionth times repeated and debunked arguments does not. Also, not being civil does not.

I don't see anything wrong with his deleted posts other than a dictatorial moderation policy in those dangerous waters ( boards ).

Dictatorial? Buddy, a forum board has rules. And those rules are better to be enforced. This forum, while far from perfect moderation, does fit in this category as well. franky1 just feels like the rules aren't proper, or that the moderators abuse their power; apparently, only to him.

[franky1]

me dictatorial???
im not the one with mod powers or chummy with those with mod powers trying to get people banned

im not even trying to be chummy to those with mod powers or gain power myself

your group are the centralist group that dont want independent/outside review.
your group adore the central point of failure
your group are the ones that tell people if they dont like core, fork off to an altcoin and leave core alone

YOUR groups social club are the dictators
look at your actions. look at this topic YOU created.

heck i recently thought you were trying to escape your dictator group. and go independent..
i even thought id suggest you should have a chance to become a greek mod. as long as you dont act like a greek GOD
my suggestions are just suggestions. unlike the powers your group try to attain for your personal centralist shenanigans

as for debunking me.. with actual hard data of something rally hard and provable in actual code or blockdata..
i doubt it
all your chums ever do is say i been debunked by quoting another social post of a chum of yours saying i was debunked where their source is another chums saying i was debunked.. or where you think you got a win becasue of grammar mistakes