Lost Private Key 30+ BTC - Future Chance of Recovery?

[blocparty_]

Hi all,

I have done enough research to accept that it’s currently extremely unlikely I will be able to access my old address containing 30+ BTC without locating the private key details or wallet passphrase.

What I was hoping for was some insight into Bitcoin future-state and possible technology advancements  that might make recovery possible in the future based on what details I can currently provide:

- 30+ BTC transferred from my exchange to my Bitcoin core wallet in 2011 (I have full access to this wallet on my old PC and have stored the wallet.dat elsewhere now also)

- A day later I transferred the same amount minus the transaction fee to what I believe was another address of mine (address was listed in my wallet contacts)

- I don’t recall what the issue was but I was unable to access the receive address after sending. The coins remain unspent to this day.  As the value of Bitcoin was extremely low in 2011 I quickly gave up and moved on to another transaction for roughly the same amount.

- I have a list of passwords and pass phrases I used during this time.

This was my first transaction using the bitcoin wallet which is likely the reason for making the error.

What is the likely hood of either;

1. Bitcoin introducing some kind of recovery option for unspent transactions sent in error where proof of sending is available? I understand this is a controversial subject for some given Bitcoin transactions were designed to be irreversible once confirmed on the ledger but refer to Bitcoin.org ‘Some things you should know’ page:

“A Bitcoin transaction cannot be reversed, it can only be refunded by the person receiving the funds. This means you should take care to do business with people and organizations you know and trust, or who have an established reputation. For their part, businesses need to keep track of the payment requests they are displaying to their customers. Bitcoin can detect typos and usually won't let you send money to an invalid address by mistake, but it's best to have controls in place for additional safety and redundancy. Additional services might exist in the future to provide more choice and protection for both businesses and consumers.
. I would be happy to donate a percentage of the coins to charity if this were an option.

2. Technology advancements make is possible to Brute Force crack the passphrase for the wallet (given I have a list of passwords I was using at the time). This is assuming it was another wallet of mine and not a custodial wallet.

Lastly, does anyone think it would be worthwhile having the PC examined to look for possible deleted wallet files or data that could help locate the required info now?

Thanks 🙏

[OmegaStarScream]

1. No, there's no such a thing. You can basically cancel RBF transactions if they're not confirmed yet but that's about it. From my understanding, the part that you wrote in bold is a reference to services that allow you to send and receive funds using domain names: https://unstoppabledomains.com/ (since they're easier to remember and type).

2. If you've got a list of passwords and the wallet.dat then there is a possibility that you could recover the funds.

Try to reach out to this guy: https://www.walletrecoveryservices.com/

He has helped hundreds, if not thousands of people recover their funds (including me) over the years. You can lookup for him on Reddit and on the forums as well, there are a lot of reviews.

3. (Correct me if I'm wrong?) but if you've been constantly using (writing files) to that same computer for the past 10 years, then this would probably make the recovery of any deleted file more difficult.

[blocparty_]

Thanks for the info. Appreciated

I definitely understand there is no such thing currently but wondered if that reference could be in regards to possible recovery of funds once confirmed, in the event of an error.  Like RBF transactions but after being confirmed (also understand this is very wishful thinking given the issue I have  )

And just to confirm, I have the wallet.dat and passphrase for the wallet I sent the funds from however the receive address has no private key stored within that file. Are you saying it’s possible the wallet.dat could have old or deleted private key info that might be able to be recovered?

[LoyceV]

- 30+ BTC transferred ~ to what I believe was another address of mine (address was listed in my wallet contacts)
~ I was unable to access the receive address after sending.

I've summarized your problem above. Is this correct? All the rest seems irrelevant.

- I have a list of passwords and pass phrases I used during this time.
~ Brute Force crack the passphrase for the wallet (given I have a list of passwords I was using at the time).

If you have a password protected wallet.dat, you can try to brute-force it. But you don't have such a wallet, right?

Lastly, does anyone think it would be worthwhile having the PC examined to look for possible deleted wallet files or data that could help locate the required info now?

I'd start by taking out the drive and cloning it without writing more data to it. I don't think it's very likely to find anything, but you can then do a raw disk search for private keys with pywallet (running on an offline system).

Any chance you used a brainwallet at the time? Say: password > brain wallet software > private key > address > stored address in receiving addresses > forgot about the brainwallet?

I definitely understand there is no such thing currently but wondered if that reference could be in regards to possible recovery of funds once confirmed, in the event of an error.

No. It's would break the fundamentals of Bitcoin if funds can be moved without signing the transaction.

And just to confirm, I have the wallet.dat and passphrase for the wallet I sent the funds from however the receive address has no private key stored within that file. Are you saying it’s possible the wallet.dat could have old or deleted private key info that might be able to be recovered?

Isn't it more likely the address you entered under "wallet contacts" was from another wallet? Question: has this address received funds before you sent the 30 Bitcoin?

[o_e_l_e_o]

What is the likely hood of either;

1. Bitcoin introducing some kind of recovery option for unspent transactions sent in error where proof of sending is available?

Zero. This is far too open to scams. It would allow anyone who has sent coins to simply sign a message from the sending address and reverse the transaction in question. It would completely defeat one of the core principles of bitcoin.

2. Technology advancements make is possible to Brute Force crack the passphrase for the wallet (given I have a list of passwords I was using at the time). This is assuming it was another wallet of mine and not a custodial wallet.

If you have the wallet  file in question, you can attempt to brute force it right now, but as Loyce says, it sounds like you don't have this.

It sounds to me that the address you sent to was not actually part of the same core wallet and came from elsewhere. Without knowing where it came from, it will be impossible for you to recover the funds.

[blocparty_]

What is the likely hood of either;

1. Bitcoin introducing some kind of recovery option for unspent transactions sent in error where proof of sending is available?

Zero. This is far too open to scams. It would allow anyone who has sent coins to simply sign a message from the sending address and reverse the transaction in question. It would completely defeat one of the core principles of bitcoin.

I definitely understand the concern that it goes against the fundamentals but wondered maybe  if it could be proven somehow and the funds were unspent (not reverse any old transaction). From what I can tell, a lot of people thought RBF would never happen either but do appreciate this is on a whole other level (post-confirmed)

2. Technology advancements make is possible to Brute Force crack the passphrase for the wallet (given I have a list of passwords I was using at the time). This is assuming it was another wallet of mine and not a custodial wallet.

If you have the wallet  file in question, you can attempt to brute force it right now, but as Loyce says, it sounds like you don't have this.

It sounds to me that the address you sent to was not actually part of the same core wallet and came from elsewhere. Without knowing where it came from, it will be impossible for you to recover the funds.

That is correct. Unfortunately I haven’t been able to recall or find details of other wallet software I was using during this time (yet).

Thanks for the info

And just to confirm, I have the wallet.dat and passphrase for the wallet I sent the funds from however the receive address has no private key stored within that file. Are you saying it’s possible the wallet.dat could have old or deleted private key info that might be able to be recovered?

Isn't it more likely the address you entered under "wallet contacts" was from another wallet? Question: has this address received funds before you sent the 30 Bitcoin?

Yes I believe that is correct and no it had not received any funds prior to my transaction. It has received a small dust transaction a couple of years ago but no funds prior to mine and no outgoing transactions ever.


If they were sent to another address of mine that was in different  wallet, is there any info on what other wallets were popular back in 2011 besides Bitcoin core (if any?)

Thanks

[OmegaStarScream]

If they were sent to another address of mine that was in different  wallet, is there any info on what other wallets were popular back in 2011 besides Bitcoin core (if any?)

Thanks

There were a few, but all web-based ones:

- MyBitcoin.com
- Instawallet

And also Blockchain.com which AFAIK, is the only service that is still operating since 2011.

[Pmalek]

That is correct. Unfortunately I haven’t been able to recall or find details of other wallet software I was using during this time (yet).
If they were sent to another address of mine that was in different  wallet, is there any info on what other wallets were popular back in 2011 besides Bitcoin core (if any?)

Can you remember what was the purpose for moving the coins from Address A to Address B? Address A belonged to your Bitcoin Core wallet already. You believe that Address B did as well. But why would you move it from one address to the other? Did you ever create a second wallet that you personally considered to be "safer" or your cold storage that could explain the reason for making that transaction from A to B?

Is there a possibility that you moved the funds to an exchange instead hoping to sell them or trade them for other assets? 
What about crypto casinos for gambling purposes?

[blocparty_]

That is correct. Unfortunately I haven’t been able to recall or find details of other wallet software I was using during this time (yet).
If they were sent to another address of mine that was in different  wallet, is there any info on what other wallets were popular back in 2011 besides Bitcoin core (if any?)

Can you remember what was the purpose for moving the coins from Address A to Address B? Address A belonged to your Bitcoin Core wallet already. You believe that Address B did as well. But why would you move it from one address to the other? Did you ever create a second wallet that you personally considered to be "safer" or your cold storage that could explain the reason for making that transaction from A to B?

Is there a possibility that you moved the funds to an exchange instead hoping to sell them or trade them for other assets? 
What about crypto casinos for gambling purposes?

I can’t recall why I originally moved the coins unfortunately. It is just a hunch that I moved them to another wallet because I have eliminated the exchange that I recall using at the time. So based on the exchange confirming my account was a zero balance and providing withdrawal history + the fact the coins haven’t been touched since the day they were send I assume it was another wallet of mine.

I did find some references in my paper password list to tradehill and flexcoin accounts but I understand they no longer exist so assume they wouldn’t have left the coins untouched if they had the keys or were hacked.

No I don’t think I ever had a casino account.

I also understand Silk Road was popular at the time but I didn’t use this site and from my research it looks like user funds were seized by the FBI at some stage anyway.

So all of the above is why I am leaning towards the second wallet theory. I wish I had more info to confirm though.

[o_e_l_e_o]

You said in your first post that since this transaction didn't seem to work, you then made a second one. Was this second one to another address you control, or was it to an exchange, service, friend, etc? It would be reasonable to assume this second transaction was destined for the same place as the first one, no?

The other possibility could be you moved coins to an offline wallet, such as a paper wallet or a brain wallet. Is there anything in your back ups that looks like a private key (string of random characters)? Or a brain wallet which is made from hashing any string, be that a password, phrase, sentence, etc.

[blocparty_]

You said in your first post that since this transaction didn't seem to work, you then made a second one. Was this second one to another address you control, or was it to an exchange, service, friend, etc? It would be reasonable to assume this second transaction was destined for the same place as the first one, no?

The other possibility could be you moved coins to an offline wallet, such as a paper wallet or a brain wallet. Is there anything in your back ups that looks like a private key (string of random characters)? Or a brain wallet which is made from hashing any string, be that a password, phrase, sentence, etc.

Yes I made a second transaction from the exchange into the same wallet. It worked and the coins remained there for some time. I thought it was straight after the first however after checking again it was approx. 20 days after.

I can’t work out why I moved the transaction in question from one address/wallet to another after receiving.. All I can put it down to is possibly inexperience and lack of understanding the transaction process but I really am guessing at this point.

It looks like I don’t have enough info to work with as it stands so I’ll try a data recovery program to see if I can find any deleted files that might help.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Ahh, I see. I thought you meant you made a second transaction from your wallet to the unknown destination, rather than from the exchange to your wallet. So no, that doesn't really help.

I would follow Loyce's advice above regarding cloning the drive before doing anything else to it. Having said that, if you've been using that hard drive for the last 11 years, then any deleted files will almost certainly have been overwritten and therefore unrecoverable.

[blocparty_]

Ahh, I see. I thought you meant you made a second transaction from your wallet to the unknown destination, rather than from the exchange to your wallet. So no, that doesn't really help.

I would follow Loyce's advice above regarding cloning the drive before doing anything else to it. Having said that, if you've been using that hard drive for the last 11 years, then any deleted files will almost certainly have been overwritten and therefore unrecoverable.

Thank you for the advice. Your comment about the cloning just jogged my memory that I used two external HDD’s during this time and I’m sure I have them stored somewhere. Maybe they will provide some of the answers.

[blocparty_]

- Located external HDD - will run a data recovery on it
- Running deep scan data recovery in PC C:/ how basic scan picked up nothing of interest (from what I could tell anyway)
- Interestingly I found an old WinZip file with a data recovery program in it when I was looking into what files I had downloaded around the time of the transaction. I couldn’t see the program had been installed but makes me wonder more about a possible deleted wallet or account related to the transaction.

One other thing I noticed was some Poker desktop apps. One had been used around this time however I can’t find any info that says they accepted Bitcoin. Does anyone know of any mainstream Poker sites that accepted Bitcoin in 2011?

Thanks.

[Lucius]

Does anyone know of any mainstream Poker sites that accepted Bitcoin in 2011?

I've been digging around a bit, and there seems to be at least one such site during 2011 - SealsWithClubs. Although the article mentions an event called Black Friday in the poker community (April 15, 2011) when the US Department of Justice seized the three largest such sites, which probably means that there may have been many less well-known sites in the US, and probably in other countries as well.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/bitcoin-poker-wins-online-after-us-shuts-cash-sites-2013-12-20

[blocparty_]

Does anyone know of any mainstream Poker sites that accepted Bitcoin in 2011?

I've been digging around a bit, and there seems to be at least one such site during 2011 - SealsWithClubs. Although the article mentions an event called Black Friday in the poker community (April 15, 2011) when the US Department of Justice seized the three largest such sites, which probably means that there may have been many less well-known sites in the US, and probably in other countries as well.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/bitcoin-poker-wins-online-after-us-shuts-cash-sites-2013-12-20

Thanks for the info! That is the only site that I came up with as well. I definitely didn’t have an account though, unfortunately.

[blocparty_]

Hello,

I am currently trying to recover possible lost keys using pywallet. I apologize in advance if this is a very basic question but does anyone know if it’s a 100% requirement to have pycrypto and the other python package (can’t recall the name) installed in order for pywallet to correctly work? I’m not very familiar with python and I can’t seem to get them working for Windows Vista so pywallet works but the end result seems to just show encrypted keys?

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[BitMaxz]

I am currently trying to recover possible lost keys using pywallet. I apologize in advance if this is a very basic question but does anyone know if it’s a 100% requirement to have pycrypto and the other python package (can’t recall the name) installed in order for pywallet to correctly work?

What version of python did you install?
if experienced some issue while using pywallet try to install pycrypto it is only needed if some command you are trying is don't work.

Use this command to install pycrypto make sure you run the command prompt as administrator this command works for me.

Code:

py -m pip install pycrypto
or
python -m pip install pycrypto

If you receive some errors when installing or it's not working properly uninstall the current version of python you use and try this version Python 2.7.2 or version 2.7.0

[nc50lc]

-snip-
I’m not very familiar with python and I can’t seem to get them working for Windows Vista so pywallet works but the end result seems to just show encrypted keys?

It runs so it's working.
If the wallet dump contains encrypted keys, then the wallet is encrypted, you'll have to add the argument --passphrase "your_password" to your command.
If the password you've entered is incorrect, it will still try but the result will still be encrypted keys
and you'll get this line somewhere above it: "The wallet is encrypted and the passphrase is incorrect".

[NotATether]

If you receive some errors when installing or it's not working properly uninstall the current version of python you use and try this version Python 2.7.2 or version 2.7.0

Why an old version of Python 2.7 specifically. It should work with any Python 2.7.x version because they are backwards compatible (mass compatibility-breaking changes happened from Python 3 on).