Bitcoin vs Altcoin environment

[cryptoaddictchie]

You should try not to confuse "pros and cons" with "serious flaws". For example a premined altcoin that is also centralized is seriously flawed, you can't define any pros for this altcoin even if it is being pumped and has given you a lot of profit.
It is like trying to talk about pros of a car such as its comfortable seats while it doesn't have an engine!

We all knew bitcoin is the ultimate decentralized platform. I'm not talking about xrp as one fo those potential one. I knew of it. I don't know eversince when someone talk altcoin you busted them liek there is no goodness on them. I know your a bitcoin maxi and will always be and I am gonna wait until you used any altcoin in the future and see what you re gonna say about that.

Does anyone even do this thing? It sounds silly! If you want to go from bitcoin to fiat then just sell bitcoin to fiat. Why sell it to another centralized altcoin then convert that to fiat by paying twice the fees?!!!

Yes many, of course if you are a trader then the bitcoin is up, of course you always convert that to stablecoin then if you feel like withdrawing that you'll use p2p. That's more often do on Binance. Yeah you'll never know cause you don't use that. Many here uses that so stop making like a bold statemetn that is anyone still doing that. As if no one do that.

No you are not alone, I will defend that not all altcoins are scams but also I defend that majority of them including the top altcoins are shitcoins.

Yeah exclude those shitcoin like memecoin but fundamental projects like ethereum and some rising fantom and those L1. Yes there are premined but you forgot the use case they gave the people which I'm sure bitcoin will never do. That's why there is an advantage. Why you are here in crypto? To earn right? I can't believe that it's not of your goal here. So whats the difference of us earning in bitcoin and altcoins?

Stay on that side of the road I guess but we those who believe in potential of SOME altcoin as long as it help us on our potential financial then why do we called it scam. Yes there is scam out there and its inevitable but don't let us believe that some of us who earned from it is made out of scam. I also hold bitcoin but you can't deny the fact that we multiply our portfolio more than we can by holding bitcoin alone.

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[pooya87]

I am gonna wait until you used any altcoin in the future and see what you re gonna say about that.

I have studied a dozen altcoins in depth at a technical level and have tested more than 50 of them. I'm greatly disappointed.
To name a few: LTC, DOGE, ETH, XRP, DASH, BYTECOIN, TETHER, BNB, STELLAR, TRON, IOTA, EOS, ZCASH, NEO, ...

The only thing I consider a serious project is Monero despite its terrible scaling issues.

Does anyone even do this thing? It sounds silly! If you want to go from bitcoin to fiat then just sell bitcoin to fiat. Why sell it to another centralized altcoin then convert that to fiat by paying twice the fees?!!!

Yes many, of course if you are a trader then the bitcoin is up, of course you always convert that to stablecoin then if you feel like withdrawing that you'll use p2p. That's more often do on Binance. Yeah you'll never know cause you don't use that. Many here uses that so stop making like a bold statemetn that is anyone still doing that. As if no one do that.

That doesn't answer my question.

but fundamental projects like ethereum

A centralized altcoin with mutable blockchain and fundamental protocol security flaws with a massive 72 million premine and an ICO scam that has also has a much worse scaling issue compare to bitcoin is not even a decent project.

Why you are here in crypto? To earn right? I can't believe that it's not of your goal here. So whats the difference of us earning in bitcoin and altcoins?

No. I'm in cryptocurrency world for the technology and I'm in bitcoin to reach financial sovereignty.

Stay on that side of the road I guess but we those who believe in potential of SOME altcoin as long as it help us on our potential financial then why do we called it scam. Yes there is scam out there and its inevitable but don't let us believe that some of us who earned from it is made out of scam.

There is nothing wrong with that. You don't have to accept my opinion but I'll continue expressing it and won't change my opinion until I'm proven otherwise.

I also hold bitcoin but you can't deny the fact that we multiply our portfolio more than we can by holding bitcoin alone.

There is a different between trading altcoins to increase your bitcoin balance and bag holding altcoins thinking they have a good future. I also do the former but avoid the later...

[cryptoaddictchie]

I have studied a dozen altcoins in depth at a technical level and have tested more than 50 of them. I'm greatly disappointed.
To name a few: LTC, DOGE, ETH, XRP, DASH, BYTECOIN, TETHER, BNB, STELLAR, TRON, IOTA, EOS, ZCASH, NEO, ...

The only thing I consider a serious project is Monero despite its terrible scaling issues.

No one can match up you here in terms of technicality and that's a fact maybe some others could. Your only basis of your dissapointment is the tech itself whether it can't scale or whatever in depth analysis you were saying. How about the simplest usage of it. For those others who doesn't have skills and deep knowledge on blockchain like yours, you can't simply level them on your toes. The basic that helps them the better which have found some on those shitcoin you mentioned.

No. I'm in cryptocurrency world for the technology and I'm in bitcoin to reach financial sovereignty.

Obviously you are in for the tech. But I'm not gonna believe earning isn't your also goal. You just made it sound cliche but reach financial sovereignty? You are in signature campaign earning bitcoin. Let say that the Chipmixer change the payment into ethereum would you still continue the participation? Can anybody suggest that to the manager and let see whose up for the money or the truly bitcoin maxi will leave since their payment would be an altcoin now.

There is nothing wrong with that. You don't have to accept my opinion but I'll continue expressing it and won't change my opinion until I'm proven otherwise.

Maybe same goes for me. Keep your opinion and I'll keep mine. We have different beliefs regarding this aspect.

There is a different between trading altcoins to increase your bitcoin balance and bag holding altcoins thinking they have a good future. I also do the former but avoid the later...

Atleast you admit you can use that on trading but that's bad. You are using the altcoins (their capacity to pump) to file more bitcoin. I thought bitcoin maxi never gonna use altcoins whatever purpose they do. But using in trading. Hmm.

Maybe until you stop using altcoin for whatever purpose you used it then stop calling those even major coin as scam if you are setting order on trading and selling when they pump.

[_act_]

Anyway, I'm sure some of what we call shitcoins will stay with us and have a use in society, no matter how centralized they are. The fiat money we use is also centralized and some people will even kill for it.

Altcoins are centralized and there are many scam in altcoins. See what I read about DeFi some weeks ago

https://www.bitcoininsider.org/article/143113/centralization-issues-are-biggest-culprits-defi-attacks-certik

I was thinking to make it a topic but I am thinking it is not necessary. Altcoins are centralized and scam is plenty in altcoins.

In just 2021, over 13 billion were stolen just about DeFi scam, there will be many more that are not recorded.

What I also noticed about altcoins is that they are deadly in bear market, some will decrease value, bring loss to people that buy them and will not increase like before.

See what Philipma1957 wrote which I see to be true

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.

Altcoin will bring most accident which is scam.

Maybe until you stop using altcoin for whatever purpose you used it then stop calling those even major coin as scam if you are setting order on trading and selling when they pump.

Altcoins are very volatile, it is the cause of many liquidation, bitcoin is volatile too but not like altcoins, I use altcoins too but I reduce my leverage after many liquidation when using 3x which is perfect for bitcoin.

What I hate about altcoins is that none is completely decentralized. If some nations are adopting coin, they will adopt bitcoin because all altcoins are controlled in a bit by their founder unlike bitcoin that will have to pass through the community first.

My friend lost money to DeFi last year, a very big amount of money.

[NeuroticFish]

I expect the current excitement over DeFi and NFTs end sooner or later, then we'll see what projects will prevail. I guess that will be few. I hope I'm wrong.

What if this is just the beginning. I've tried some of these defi products that's work on financial aspect like lending and borrowing and earning or yielding interest which is good that I may not be able to use on btc aside from holding. I believed the next hype is the full blown metaverse.

People need something new, some hype, now and then, some new trend. See fashion, colors, perfumes, even the look of your smartphone and browser are governed by "trends".
I guess that the same goes to financial experiments. There will always be something new for baiting small fish and make some smart guys rich.
And why not? few of those inventions may be actually good and stay. Actually I guess that a few of the 2017/2018 ICOs are still up and running too.

[jackg]

I like etherem as well and I have some.
However,  nobody really  knows what will eth be in the future.

I think eth also has one of the largest crypto communities (after bitcoin and crypto in general) which means it or a version of it will likely stay with us for a long time.

I saw an interview with antonopoulos recently,  where he was talking about it.

What will eth be? Ico, nft, defi, tokens? Everything is changing too fast and the goals are not clear. Now meta shows up, will eth be part of it?

Everything changes very often too with eth and I don't think some of the old parts of it lose out (icos aren't completely dead yet, and even when they are I can imagine some sort of initial exchange offering being set up instead for some coins - if people want them, they'll buy).

There's also going to be a lot of changes with the fundamentals of eth as to how it's mined and there may be differences with how the chain is stored too for a more decentralised approach.

[_act_]

People need something new, some hype, now and then, some new trend. See fashion, colors, perfumes, even the look of your smartphone and browser are governed by "trends".
I guess that the same goes to financial experiments. There will always be something new for baiting small fish and make some smart guys rich.
And why not? few of those inventions may be actually good and stay. Actually I guess that a few of the 2017/2018 ICOs are still up and running too.

If you are smart, altcoins can be good for you but very risky, it is like gambling in some ways, I have a friend that got scammed of a coin created on Binance Smart Chain last year that was to be launched on December 1 2021, he invested and lost all his money. You know what that surprised me, he sent me a screen shot of the coin called Dxswap, he had the coin on trust wallet, when December 1 came, it was a scam, the coin was not seen on trust wallet again, those are ICO. There are many ways many people are scammed with altcoins and new projects but the people that have experience can still avoid many mistakes and make money from it. What about the DeFi scam, even it is not about professional, anyone can be scam. What I am seeing is that altcoins are leaving ways to new inventions but inventions that create more ways for scammers to be happy.

[aysg76]

This is a good topic for purpose of debate as I've noticed that some users keeps saying altcoins are scam( probably some but don't considered it all cause its not) . So I Invited those whose btc maxi and altcoin maxi here to step up and voice out your opinion here with the purpose of healthy discussion.

Okay so i will call myself as bitcoin optimist and long term btc investor and holder and if you can call me by the term maximalist thn it's completely fine with me because i don't trust any altcoins anymore because of plenty of the reasons but i would not call them scam even though but only shitcoins as pooya87 have already said.I will make more clarification on this part:

1) Scam coins : They are the altcoins that have come into the market with the intention of rugpull and scam people through raising funds and then pumping up the coins which will be followed by team running away and network shutdown.There were some instances of these scam coins like the most famous bitconnect and the latest one Squid game tokens which was the case of rug pull.So they are completely dead and people loose funds forever.

2) Shitcoins : The term is associated with altcoins that have no potential to grow and serve zero utility to the holders.For example if you were holding some meme coin then what's the use case of them? They were rising only due to influence of Musk and you know people are blind by the greed and started investing in them but after the whales took out the profits the prices crashed and billions were faded away from the market.Doge was reaching higher and higher in top 10 on CMC but now see it's not anymore.So the shitcoin is like they can rise or not as there is no guarantee and have no strong use case.Like they are centralised,less security, high transaction fees and unlimited supply so it makes it shitcoin compared to btc.

So you see for me not all alts are scam because your funds are safe but not grow in them and some are really scam so you need to be extra cautious with them.

I have made several threads for the same like this one : Reasons why I prefer Bitcoin over any other assets and dips don't panic me....

[Bttzed03]

~ I'm trying to find some reasons why people tend to think of altcoin as shitcoin, it's simply that they don't have any real use cases in different countries.

It's not about use case in different countries they are questioning but actual real world use case. Their main argument is you don't really need a different crypto for a particular project because a utility tokens' main purpose is to be use as a payment method within that ecosystem. Some of the use cases like staking, governance, and other stuffs are just made up.

[BernyJB]

Well,  I don't particularly like the "BTC vs. altcoins" thing. As far as I'm concerned, they're all cryptocurrencies.
Sure, BTC is the first one. Nobody can take that away from them. But to say only BTC is a true cryptocurrency is like saying Mercedes is the only car in the world.
There are lots of scams, that's also true. There also are, as of now, almost 17000 cryptocurrencies listed in Coinmarketcap, and a lot of them are NOT scams. Sure, if you only go for BTC you greatly reduce the risk. If you go for the top 10, you will also reduce it (albeit a bit less), and so will you if you go for the top 100. You just have to keep an eye on it. After all, it's your money.
Now, if you want to just buy crypto and forget about it, I guess BTC is a no brainer. But also is ETH, for example. There's no way you can lose money on either one.

[Woodie]

It will always stand that wr have legit altcoins and the shitcoins/scamcoins in the blockchain space because of some selfish individuals but this can not extinguish our passion for these digital coins.
And btw when we make comparisons between the two i think we are being affair as we should look at these to be compliments to each other and not competitor's of some sort. Crypto is here to stay so lets inbrace both coin families.

[1miau]

* and I own some  (to increase my sats) 

I remembered you promoted avalanche some quite time ago. I'm not sure if you like that or you'll convert that to sat as well.

Yes, Avalanche is an Altcoin where I see at least some innovation happening. It's a great technology behind it but still some classic Altcoin issues like PoS = rich getting richer, where it's no problem for rich people to increase owned stakes easily at cost of normal participants. Luckily, Avalanche has a capped supply but I would be very happy to see the "rich getting richer" problem adressed by the devs. PoW is far superior here.
And Avalanche has a huge dev premine. Especially for a PoS coin, a huge dev premine is clearly a centralization issue.

But out of all Altcoins, I would say: Avalanche is a promising coin, because it's still very new and when it's getting decentralized over time by a supportive community, I beleive it has potential to flip ETH, especially if ETH 2.0 gets delayed again for a long time.

[cryptoaddictchie]

But out of all Altcoins, I would say: Avalanche is a promising coin, because it's still very new and when it's getting decentralized over time by a supportive community, I beleive it has potential to flip ETH, especially if ETH 2.0 gets delayed again for a long time.

Among all the criticism you said. At least you get to recover it with this statement. Yes they got huge premine, but we all knew there is some lock on that and I'm pretty sure with their current status now, they wouldn't be greedy to dump that on the investors just like that. We can't deny that most of alternative coins have premine, but what could we do about it right? Satoshi have his own share of btc I guess but he didn't spend it or dump it. All I can say is trust the system. Avalanche will be one of the top coin out there and definitely will happened. Just like you said, eth is slow now and we're looking for new one that can compete what they lack and that's is scaling.

BTW you still hodl your avax?

[pooya87]

But I'm not gonna believe earning isn't your also goal.

It is one of my goals.

Let say that the Chipmixer change the payment into ethereum would you still continue the participation?

No, most probably I will leave since I don't consider ethereum safe and it is a hassle to constantly having to convert it back to bitcoin on each payment every week.

Maybe until you stop using altcoin for whatever purpose you used it then stop calling those even major coin as scam if you are setting order on trading and selling when they pump.

I usually call tokens scams not the altcoins. I never trade tokens either, I trade altcoins even if I consider them shitcoins.
There is a difference between shitcoins and scamcoins, by principle I don't want to be involved in anything I consider to be a complete scam.

Yes they got huge premine, but we all knew there is some lock on that

There is no lock at all. In fact they sold a tiny portion of it to become millionaires some time ago. They are now trying to push the weaker algorithm (PoS) so that they can print money out of thin air by just owning that huge premine and then sell that without selling their main stash.

We can't deny that most of alternative coins have premine, but what could we do about it right? Satoshi have his own share of btc

You can't seriously compare the two. First of all nobody knows how much bitcoin Satoshi owns and secondly any block that Satoshi mined could have been mined by anyone else (many of them have) whereas any premined coins could not be acquired by anyone else they were printed out of thin air with no cost or work.

[cryptoaddictchie]

No, most probably I will leave since I don't consider ethereum safe and it is a hassle to constantly having to convert it back to bitcoin on each payment every week.

Then that is truly a remarkable conviction patronising bitcoin. Salute you for that sir!

I usually call tokens scams not the altcoins. I never trade tokens either, I trade altcoins even if I consider them shitcoins.
There is a difference between shitcoins and scamcoins, by principle I don't want to be involved in anything I consider to be a complete scam.

I'm pretty sure it's the same thing when you weigh your description.

Majority of altcoins are useless garbage made for pump and dumps, however there are only a handful of decent projects out there which nobody can deny. But since the top altcoins that are talked about the most are in fact shitcoins, it may be the reason why you thought people are calling "all" altcoins scams.

There is no lock at all. In fact they sold a tiny portion of it to become millionaires some time ago. They are now trying to push the weaker algorithm (PoS) so that they can print money out of thin air by just owning that huge premine and then sell that without selling their main stash.

I'm not sure, since they disclosed that on vesting which is saw on blockchain. Maybe some aren't transparent but I'm sure the one I invested aren't like that.

You can't seriously compare the two. First of all nobody knows how much bitcoin Satoshi owns and secondly any block that Satoshi mined could have been mined by anyone else (many of them have) whereas any premined coins could not be acquired by anyone else they were printed out of thin air with no cost or work.

Just like you said. Nobody know Satoshi asset on bitcoin, and surely we also don't know if his only wallet are disclose how about potential other wallets. We knew how smart he was. I'm not saying he have a dummy account but probably could right? Point is, those who have vested tokens on the team deserved some tokens whether it's a huge one or not. Of course it's scary that they could dump that anytime but that's where the team uses burning of tokens to prove to community their sincerity. I likely defend some cause I live with the altcoin world. But I understand your perseverance to warn others about altcoin since few got dark plans and hidden agenda. We also on altcoins don't want that who want ls that anyway.

[boyptc]

The thing is, people can no longer ignore the potential of some altcoins that are also making rounds in the market. And that's why people are quick in jumping into different altcoins for their potential.

Thats what I'm talking about. Some here who don't uses altcoins have some guts to generalise all altcoin are scam as if they uses it. There are some and that's a fact but generalising it, of course some would disagree including me and I'm sure some other guys here too.

Yeah, it's about the generalization that they give to every altcoin that it's a scam. But the thing is, there really are scam projects and altcoins but there are also legitimate projects and altcoins that shouldn't be ignored by them.

That makes them think and say that all of them are scams and if there's going to change their minds, we don't know what's that because that's their firm belief on it.

[bhooscream]

If you are pro Bitcoin but still you do one of the following below then what is your sentiment on altcoins:

I really have found some opinions and also thought about this and actually this exactly happened in the crypto industry. Many people hate altcoins so much but they are still doing those following lists.
Btw, I am a fan of Bitcoin, the first one is for Bitcoin. But, I am not a hater of all altcoins. I mean that I will not generalize all altcoins are scams and only Bitcoin that is legit.
I wonder that many altcoins may be scams, shit, or others. But most doesn't mean all.
Some altcoins still have very good fundamentals and they are also used for good utility.
I am sure that many people are also aware of this condition. Some altcoins are also worthy to trade or invest. But we cannot also ignore that there are so many shitcoins and scam coins coming to again and again.
That is why we must be more and more careful and smarter in choosing the altcoins if we mind to.

[1miau]

But out of all Altcoins, I would say: Avalanche is a promising coin, because it's still very new and when it's getting decentralized over time by a supportive community, I beleive it has potential to flip ETH, especially if ETH 2.0 gets delayed again for a long time.

Among all the criticism you said. At least you get to recover it with this statement. Yes they got huge premine, but we all knew there is some lock on that and I'm pretty sure with their current status now, they wouldn't be greedy to dump that on the investors just like that.

It's really difficult to say what a team is doing with a premine. I'm not saying a premine is 100% negative, there a quite a few reasons for a well-managed premine especially when so many coins are your competition.
Avalanche has some community programs but it's not really transparent how much is allocated.
Aren't devs dumping some coins?
Giving coins to affiliated projects?
Giving coins to friends?
We can't say because it's a centralized premine...
We have to trust the team, like you said.

That's an advantage of Bitcoin, Bitcoin didn't need a premine. Bitcoin was launched in an environment that can't be created again. When the majority of coins was mined, there were an high percentage of people mostly interested in the tech. No greedy VCs etc.
Such a situationcan't be created again.

BTW you still hodl your avax?

Yes.  

[cryptoaddictchie]

~snipped

Totally agreed about bitcoin there. Just cant help myself in the financial side to get along with these new projects which shown potential. VCs can be there but sooner or later it could be more decentralized as those coins are leaving those greedy cunts and transfer to a deserving communities.

Yes. 

Wow congrats. I assume you are either a validator or delegating those tokens you have right.

[9-planet]

Bitcoin still remain number one in the cryptocurrency industries that drive other altcoin in the crypto market which does not mean that altcoin is a scam, many has been invest on altcoin and get a huge return investment, take a look of shiba Inu, which really open so many people eyes on short time investment.