CBDC will make Bitcoin MORE valuable

[Wind_FURY]

Identity-verified: Financial institutions in the United States are subject to robust rules that are designed to combat money laundering and the financing of terrorism. A CBDC would need to be designed to comply with these rules. In practice, this would mean that a CBDC intermediary would need to verify the identity of a person accessing CBDC, just as banks and other financial institutions currently verify the identities of their customers.

Prevention of financial crimes: Relatedly, financial institutions must comply with a robust set of rules that are designed to combat money laundering and the financing of terrorism. These rules include customer due diligence, recordkeeping, and reporting requirements. As noted above, any CBDC would need to be designed in a manner that facilitates compliance with these rules. Intermediated models for a U.S. CBDC have the distinct advantage of involving private-sector partners with established programs to help ensure compliance with these rules.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/files/money-and-payments-20220120.pdf

Someone asked if a CBDC can make Bitcoin worthless. Read the white-paper for “FedCoin”, and tell me how it can make Bitcoin “worthless”, when in fact it definitely WILL make it more valuable.

Why?

The paper says, “In practice, this would mean that a CBDC intermediary would need to verify the identity of a person accessing CBDC, just as banks and other financial institutions currently verify the identities of their customers.”

It will KYC everyone, and invade your privacy.

It also says, “ Intermediated models for a U.S. CBDC have the distinct advantage of involving private-sector partners with established programs to help ensure compliance with these rules.”

Is that developing the mechanisms to censor the user?

It is everything that Bitcoin it not. I believe if CBDC is fully adopted, it will only increase demand for a censorship-resistant type of money. Bitcoin.

[Charles-Tim]

Identity-verified: Financial institutions in the United States are subject to robust rules that are designed to combat money laundering and the financing of terrorism.

There are rules to prevent anti money laundering and counter financing terrorism, but yet there are still money laundering that only involve fiat, there are still terrorism that are only funded with fiat.

Someone asked if a CBDC can make Bitcoin worthless. Read the white-paper for “FedCoin”, and tell me how it can make Bitcoin “worthless”, when in fact it definitely WILL make it more valuable.

I thought CBDCs are cryptocurrencies before but they are not, I still do not see any connection between bitcoin and CBDCs. Bitcoin is independent of CBDCs and others. Before CBDCs started evolving, bitcoin adoption has been increasing.

The paper says, “In practice, this would mean that a CBDC intermediary would need to verify the identity of a person accessing CBDC, just as banks and other financial institutions currently verify the identities of their customers.”

CBDCs are banks in another (modern) makeup. You still depend on your country's central bank but less dependent on the commercial banks you are using, but that does not mean you will not depend also on them in several cases. No matter what it can be, be it private or public organizations that created CBDC, it has to comply with the country's central bank and central bank will have much control as well.

I believe if CBDC is fully adopted, it will only increase demand for a censorship-resistant type of money.

Yes, but there is nothing new about CBDCs, CBDCs are modern era fiat. So, nothing new.

[mk4]

While we don't know exactly how a certain country's CBDC would work, I'm going to guess it would just be very close to how fiat works on finance platforms like online banking and PayPal; that requires AML/KYC by default anywyay. I don't think having CBDCs would change a thing.

[Darker45]

A CBDC is both a better and worse version of fiat depending on how you look at it. In terms of privacy, however, it is definitely worse than the good old cash. At least with the old bills and coins, transactions could be anonymous and irreversible, big brother could not snoop each time your money moves, they couldn’t be frozen, and so on. With a CBDC, you are very closely monitored. Whatever little sense of ownership you have with money is taken away.

If privacy matters to people, the demand for Bitcoin would spike the moment a CBDC will replace the old form of fiat.

[asus09]

maybe cdbc will make bitcoin more valuable, i still don't understand how cdbc can make bitcoin more valuable,? while CDBC is a digital currency that is controlled by the central bank, don't we all know that the central bank is very anti bitcoin, even the Russian central bank has also proposed to close bitcoin mining, many articles that I read there are still many pros and cons CDBC problem, I will always follow every article that develops..

[franky1]

there are many ways to have a CBDC without every transaction needing KYC.

EG if the transaction value is excess of 10,000 CBDD(central bank digital dollars) then its not only a signature of a spending key needed, but also a identity key needs to be added to the transaction for it to be valid to be added to a block.

this means small purchases dont need such ID attached tasks but larger purchases do
so for those that do send and receive 10,000 they need to register. but those that just play with 1-1000, dont need to register

the good thing about code is, any rule can me made in code.

these 'identity keys' dont need to be public, but instead archived in a IRS/SEC system thus your neighbour wont know how many coffee's or lambo's you bought unless they physically stalk you in the real world. but still allows the SEC/IRS to digitally monitor the large lambo's without being inundated with every purchase. and without physically stalking your front yard

..
yes people will still want to try pretending to be private by using crypto. but eventually the conversion from crypto to fiat, ends up with banks seeing the fiat move..

..
i know people think that just because a crypto exchange didnt used to self-report its customers in-house exchanges.. but as soon as you withdraw your fiat even without an exchange report.. your bank ALWAYS has reported you receiving or sending large fiat.
..
people are already using a CBC(central bank currency) and so that part is not really causing much fanfair for crypto.
however just introducing a crypto CBC atleast teaches people about the tech of public/private keys which could lead then to want some more privacy, once they get used to the concept of crypto.

EG credit cards seemed odd at first, people preferred bank notes. but once debit cards became popular and people got used to debit cards for normal life spending. then more people started also using credit cards. because they got used to the tech/method, accepting it as the norm. to use plastic instead of paper

[Vaskiy]

Bank of America has said CBDC would preserve the status of US dollar as world's reserve currency. Also this CBDC is into usage by 2030. It is also said CBDC and stablecoin adoption is inevitable. Korea have already implemented and tested phases of CBDC. CBDC and DEFI are the most into research over the years. More than 64 countries making research, out of which 20 countries have already developed their CBDC. Countries will never show this interest if it is something decentralised like bitcoin and can't be controlled. As it is completely centralized and can be controlled, governments adopt it.

[Mamun74]

I think Yes,CBDC will make Bitcoin more valuable. CBDC is digital currency and It's controlled  by the central bank. American bank also said that CBDC status of US dollar as reserve currency. Bitcoin is most popular coin and It's decentralization and decentralization will never be stable. But CBDC and stable coin adoption is inevitable.

[hatshepsut93]

It's a very big assumption to think that CBDC will even be released, so far all these years it was nothing more than just an idea. If central banks really wanted it, they would have at least made some prototypes by now, after all it has been 2-3 years since the CBDC hype has started. And then, even if some countries will make it, it's not a fact they they will be widely adopted. And then it's a big "if" people will pushed towards Bitcoin, because people quite easily give up their freedoms, especially in finance, when most people have no idea of what's going on.

[amishmanish]

Today every company has an intranet that only its own employees can access depending on their clearance levels. They are specialized networks that cannot be compared to the Internet; the World Wide Web the way we know it.

Similarly, CBDC's will be nothing but cryptocurrencies running on central servers owned by countries. IMO, They make no difference to bitcoin whatsoever. When it'll come to an actual decentralized currency that is not owned by any government, it'll be Bitcoin. Its the single point for free institutions to rally around. On top of that, the truly decentralized FinTech is being enabled because of Bitcoin and Ethereum. There is a need for the product and institutions behind them to mature. Considering the many developers and brilliant minds working on these problems, it can be said with considerable certainty that CBDCs will be nowhere near as popular.

[tranthidung]

Someone asked if a CBDC can make Bitcoin worthless.

It won't happen because CBDC is just another variant of traditional fiat currency. It is a new tool to help government have more easily process to add new supply into circulation. With traditional fiat, they will need lots of physical infrastructures but with CBDCs, it is more easily for governments so they will make inflation become worse.

In the end, inflation, hyper inflation will support Bitcoin adoption and growth.

[NeuroticFish]

when in fact it definitely WILL make it more valuable.

I would rather say that they'll give Bitcoin more legitimacy, since they'll look similar to the average Joe.
More value? Maybe. But Bitcoin already has more value than we'd think, it only has to be discovered (by the world).

It is everything that Bitcoin it not. I believe if CBDC is fully adopted, it will only increase demand for a censorship-resistant type of money. Bitcoin.

I won't be so confident in this. People are easily manipulated and they may trust government easier than this strange free computer project they don't understand.
Many will ask why use Bitcoin when they have their e-Fiat.
Bitcoin will remain a great investment, but CBDCs have the potential to slow down Bitcoin adoption. (They also have the potential to help into a seamless connection between Bitcoin and fiat world, hence using Bitcoin too as a coin. But it may depend from country to country.)

[fiulpro]

But I think you do understand the fact that CBDC's would definately try and dominate the market making the government take legal actions against bitcoins therefore they might try and block bitcoins and ask users to use CBDC'S or take other actions regulating it on various levels. But I do think because of all these privacy issues people would value the bitcoins more. Therefore the assumption that it might make cryptos more valuable but that's clearly have ill defined values. So I think it would define bitcoins and other cryptocurrencies better but there would definitely be a lot of probelms along the way for them.

[AakZaki]

It's like an ever-growing trend against decentralized blockchain technology. Banks and countries are afraid of the power of bitcoin so they will make CBDC as a counterpoint. Regarding the form of CBDC I also do not understand, but it seems that the government has the right to control, regulate and supervise. Therefore it is very far and contrary to the principle of bitcoin. China, which has officially banned all crypto activities, has developed E-CNY as a counterpoint.

[franky1]

old banking use to be
wire transfers cost $10 and took 6-24hours
remittance cost more and took longer.

bitcoin offered a currency that could be used by the unbanked for small amounts at small fees (2009-2015)

but now banks can offer instant transfers for free and remittance in seconds, cheap.

also people wont run away from a CBDC because LAWS will be in place that
employee incomes would need to be paid at X rate CBDC
taxes and court fines would need to be paid at X rate CBDC
and retail purchases for sales tax reasons will need to be paid in CBDC

the only reason people would want to have an alternate currency is to 'off-shore' their hoard value away from the tax man.

bitcoin has (due to dev-politics), stifled bitcoins utility of mass unbanked populations who only receive $5 a day in wage. as the fee's are pretty much a days labour. thus bitcoin has already lost a niche of 1billion people

yea i know some will advertise the pegged networks that offer faster cheaper services. but then thats not the bitcoin network. its the pegged coin network they are advertising where users dont even touch or use the actual bitcoin network. and wont settle to the bitcoin network, again due to fees. they'll prefer to settle to an altcoin of lesser fee

bitcoin should not rely on government CBDC to hope it makes bitcoin more popular. and instead actually get back to the 2009-2015 premiss of offering people something more useful than institutional banking on the bitcoin network

[Jonter7]

I believe that CBDCs are a first step towards a full adoption of cryptos in the traditional economy. Bitcoin can benefit from this, as well as blockchain in general. however, stablecoins are already a reality and are currently worth more than $120 billion dollars according to https://blockchainjournal.news/bank-of-america-says-stablecoins-and-cbdcs-are-inevitable/

[Ozero]

I think Yes,CBDC will make Bitcoin more valuable. CBDC is digital currency and It's controlled  by the central bank. American bank also said that CBDC status of US dollar as reserve currency. Bitcoin is most popular coin and It's decentralization and decentralization will never be stable. But CBDC and stable coin adoption is inevitable.

This is generally a controversial issue that needs to be tested in practice. CBDC is simply a more efficient financial means of non-cash payments of states in their currency. Therefore, CBDC cannot be similar to cryptocurrency. Any financial transactions with the currency of states require user identification. Therefore, for CBDCs, user identification is commonplace.
However, since CBDCs will be much faster and more efficient than conventional non-cash payments of states, it is quite possible that they will compete with decentralized cryptocurrencies to some extent. CBDC lose to cryptocurrency by complete centralization and complete lack of anonymity, but at the same time, their transactions will be not only controlled, but also protected by states. How CBDCs will affect the price of cryptocurrencies, including bitcoin, will be shown by practice after the mass appearance of CBDCs themselves.

[DooMAD]

A few people in the topic already seem to be conflating CBDCs and stablecoins, but they're very different things:

Stablecoins are tokens which are supposedly backed by private capital.  A company claims they have a certain quantity of assets and issue tokens to represent those assets.

CBDCs are nation-state/government issued currencies.  No private assets involved.  The currency is only "backed" by the perceived strength of the nation's economy, much in the same way fiat is.

[NeuroticFish]

employee incomes would need to be paid at X rate CBDC or fiat
taxes and court fines would need to be paid at X rate CBDC or fiat
and retail purchases for sales tax reasons will need to be paid in CBDC or fiat

I've added a little bit of extra, since fiat will not disappear yet, since far too many simply don't have internet nor care about it.

the only reason people would want to have an alternate currency is to 'off-shore' their hoard value away from the tax man.

There are other possible reasons, from faster money transfers (especially international) to getting paid for your work without the need of KYC. And investment. People have been always using the stronger currencies as investment. Bitcoin fits that use case too.
(Of course, keeping money away from certain eyes can be also an use case, but not everybody is doing that.)

bitcoin has (due to dev-politics), stifled bitcoins utility of mass unbanked populations who only receive $5 a day in wage. as the fee's are pretty much a days labour. thus bitcoin has already lost a niche of 1billion people
yea i know some will advertise the pegged networks that offer faster cheaper services. but then thats not the bitcoin network. its the pegged coin network they are advertising where users dont even touch or use the actual bitcoin network. and wont settle to the bitcoin network, again due to fees. they'll prefer to settle to an altcoin of lesser fee

If the politics would have been different the price for a coin would probably have also been different. Of course, this may not help the unbanked much, although people were always resourceful.
I will avoid the topic you don't like. I will tell about those micro-payment websites some have been using for faucets, I will tell about off-chain "transactions" made by people using the same web wallet like service (eg Coinbase). Or some people can simply ask to get paid into the deposit address of a Bitcoin-card service and spend from that card. So the 5$/day people do have some options (they probably won't know nor care to use more complicated methods anyway).
I don't tell that those methods are good or bad, it's not the purpose here. The purpose is to show that people are resourceful. And I am confident that more ways to handle small transactions will be invented.
I know that you would have preferred bigger blocks. But even if that would have been fixing the fee problem, maybe, it wouldn't have made bitcoin suitable for paying at the supermarket - which is considered sometimes as a measure of success as a currency/coin - because of the block time.

bitcoin should not rely on government CBDC to hope it makes bitcoin more popular.

I somehow agree that we should not rely on govt products for success, but on the other hand I don't think that we can otherwise and I tell you why.
You also wrote that the shop will accept govt money because of laws, taxes and such. Shops don't have much of a reason to accept bitcoin, because it means more paperwork and also more risks (sudden price fluctuation). So if we want to use Bitcoin-as-a-coin, we may not have much of a choice than provide a "connector" between bitcoin "world" and fiat/shops/banks world.
When shop owners will start seeing Bitcoin is indeed useful and used, maybe some will start accepting Bitcoin too. But I don't think that a "revolution" will just happen. Until then, we may need to connect with CBDCs. Not seeing them as a savior or such (by far!), still.. they may come handy.

As I said in the previous post. Govt launching CBDC can end up with govt rising more obstacles for bitcoin or can get to help bitcoin connect to the monetary system / the merchants. Not the best solution - imho never is - but one more step forward.

[franky1]

I somehow agree that we should not rely on govt products for success, but on the other hand I don't think that we can otherwise and I tell you why.
You also wrote that the shop will accept govt money because of laws, taxes and such. Shops don't have much of a reason to accept bitcoin, because it means more paperwork and also more risks (sudden price fluctuation). So if we want to use Bitcoin-as-a-coin, we may not have much of a choice than provide a "connector" between bitcoin "world" and fiat/shops/banks world.
When shop owners will start seeing Bitcoin is indeed useful and used, maybe some will start accepting Bitcoin too. But I don't think that a "revolution" will just happen. Until then, we may need to connect with CBDCs. Not seeing them as a savior or such (by far!), still.. they may come handy.

i dont see bitcoin as a take-over attempt of fiat.
i dont see bitcoin as something that needs 'dollar'

im in the UK and i can buy US products with my pounds. because yes there are middlemen that accept pounds and THEY convert it to dollar for the merchant.

im invested in bitcoin and i can buy US products with my bitcoin. because yes there are middlemen that accept bitcoin and THEY convert it to dollar for the merchant.

this DOES NOT mean my pounds need the american dollar to promote pounds.
thats what forex exchanges were made for to have them hedge the risks of exchanging. so that pounds can play in UK and dollars can play in america without them being dependant on each other.

i dont have to rely on US government. i can however use a private business that hedges the exchange risk where they make fee's/profits for hedging the exchange risk.

...
but now lets go back to the practicality of a CBDC vs bitcoin.
if a CBDC does everything faster, cheaper then bitcoin. people just wont see the point of bitcoin