Are Institutional investors changing the Bitcoin price behaviour?

[Kakmakr]

Now, we know the Bitcoin price has not been phased much, when Wall Street and global markets have shown movement. These markets are used by large investors that are very trigger happy with the slightest volatility.

We also now know that these large investors are also dipping their toes in Crypto currencies (Bitcoin) and their trigger happy behavior are also coming with them.

Do you think as the injection of institutional money increase, that we will see more irrational price movement that are synchronized with global market movements?

Will Bitcoin still be a Safe haven when institutional money takes over the majority of the ownership of bitcoins and these people start to manipulate it in the same way that they are manipulating other markets?

Let's discuss.

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[jackg]

Now, we know the Bitcoin price has not been phased much, when Wall Street and global markets have shown movement. These markets are used by large investors that are very trigger happy with the slightest volatility.

I don't think anythings changed that much price strength wise since larger investors came into the bitcoin space.

I think whenever institutions start buying and selling we might see more dramatic volume increases but institutions like to compete with each other so it's likely these will be done over the counter or both executed at the same time so it might just effect the volume.

[fiulpro]

I do think that the investors are actually happy with small volatility since at the end of the day the volatility provides them with an option to invest more, I do think that the reason bitcoin's price is kind of regulated it might seem is majorly due to big exchanges and wallets as well. For example all the trading platforms generally close the withdrawal and selling the exact time the price goes profitable, I have experienced this a lot of times. There are many big companies which are also regulating Bitcoins indirectly. Investors are always coming and going but what stays same is the dominance of Bitcoins over any other Altcoins which is still pretty much there.

[hatshepsut93]

Do you think as the injection of institutional money increase, that we will see more irrational price movement that are synchronized with global market movements?

This has been the case for a while now. When COVID-19 begun, all market crashed hard, and Bitcoin saw the most devastating flash crash in its recent history. Bitcoin also followed the mainstream markets in 2021 on multiple occasions, and just days ago it did the same when stock markets started declining. However, Bitcoin is not just following traditional markets 1:1 all the time. Usually Bitcoin recovers independently from them, and it still has a ton of independent price action.

I would say that Bitcoin is not a short-term hedge against traditional markets even if it itself is not considered a traditional asset, but in the longer run it's doing its own thing, which is increasing in value.

[TheNineClub]

More irrational than what we have right now? I would think that it would be the opposite, that it would stabilize the fluctuation a bit. Primarily because investors are not the only factor that affects the price and the ups and downs. It's the sum of those factors that make up all of the turbulation that we have, but I guess that the natural evolution is in stabilization, either that or dying out.

[royalfestus]

Now, we know the Bitcoin price has not been phased much, when Wall Street and global markets have shown movement. These markets are used by large investors that are very trigger happy with the slightest volatility.

I don't think anythings changed that much price strength wise since larger investors came into the bitcoin space.

I think whenever institutions start buying and selling we might see more dramatic volume increases but institutions like to compete with each other so it's likely these will be done over the counter or both executed at the same time so it might just effect the volume.

what are the sources of information for purchase and sale of coin by institutions? I feel sometimes this source of information are influenced to deceive traders of accumulation,  we saw a lot of them in recent day of the dump and while finding the bottom of the market. Most of the purchases are on the counter not exchanges, so how do people know this accumulation? 

[jackg]

what are the sources of information for purchase and sale of coin by institutions? I feel sometimes this source of information are influenced to deceive traders of accumulation,  we saw a lot of them in recent day of the dump and while finding the bottom of the market. Most of the purchases are on the counter not exchanges, so how do people know this accumulation? 

I don't think otc data would help that much as anything that happens on the otc market will affect the normal exchanges too.

It's possible to buy data on otc markets though and may companies might factor it into their main currency data pulls (for example, coinbase pro, coinbase and coinbase prime might be aggregated together in one data pull).

[Hydrogen]

Do you think as the injection of institutional money increase, that we will see more irrational price movement that are synchronized with global market movements?  

I think the holiday season and christmas are peaks for crypto volume. There is a lull in transaction volume for january through around march. Which is the time when bitcoin is most vulnerable to short selling. The first three months of the year is when short sellers who believe bitcoin is overvalued are most likely to make their plays.

Looking at charts of bitcoin price. I think january through march are the most likely months for a crash or a flatline trading. Mid to end year period is most likely for price gains.

Beginning of a new year is usually bearish or trending downward. People say the current january decline is an "anomaly" but looking at a chart of bitcoin prices, some of the biggest all time crashes occurred january through march.

[24Kt]

what are the sources of information for purchase and sale of coin by institutions? I feel sometimes this source of information are influenced to deceive traders of accumulation,  we saw a lot of them in recent day of the dump and while finding the bottom of the market. Most of the purchases are on the counter not exchanges, so how do people know this accumulation? 

I don't think otc data would help that much as anything that happens on the otc market will affect the normal exchanges too.

It's possible to buy data on otc markets though and may companies might factor it into their main currency data pulls (for example, coinbase pro, coinbase and coinbase prime might be aggregated together in one data pull).

The reality is we don't have this kind of reliable information. Most are just rumors and some may just want to spread fud in the market. As we don't know the authenticity of the source, it is better to take care of your assets and don't easily believe what you are reading. If you're here in this market, you basically know what to do with your assets. Otherwise, you will lose funds for nothing.

[Darker45]

The price movements of Bitcoin have always been like this ever since. Although the bigger picture has it appreciating, its short movements have always been highly unpredictable. No wonder why Bitcoin trading is oftentimes frustrating; it's because an accurate prediction has always been elusive. Charting doesn't guarantee anything either. So the entry of institutional money in Bitcoin won't really change much its price behavior. It has always been volatile, although with Bitcoin's market cap already reaching hundreds of billions, this volatility now translates to the price quickly jumping up and down by the thousands of USD.

[mk4]

Big money manipulating markets has always been 99% a tinfoil-hat theory. As more money enters the space, raising the marketcap, it will be harder and harder to influence the market.

Not to mention that when talking about trigger happiness, it's mostly retail rather than institutional. Any competent institutional investor don't invest in something just to panic sell after a drop or something.

[adaseb]

I don’t think it’s the institutions which are causing all these moves. Basically Bitcoin trades at something like 0.9 correlation with stock markets so many crypto traders are just watching the SP500 charts and following every move. And that’s why the correlation is there.

I haven’t seen it be this closely correlated for a long time however I just think many traders are taken advantage of that to make money. We saw what happened today with FOMC and crypto traders basically started the sell off when the stock market indices were crashing during Jpows speech.

[Strongkored]

Will Bitcoin still be a Safe haven when institutional money takes over the majority of the ownership of bitcoins and these people start to manipulate it in the same way that they are manipulating other markets?

I think still, because even though this is manipulated by institutions but still their goal is profit and the important thing for small holder is not to follow the flow they create stay focused on the targets that have been made and not panic to see a red market, because it could be a target of large institutions to collect more from panic sell that is often experienced by small holders.

[takngantuk]

Will Bitcoin still be a Safe haven when institutional money takes over the majority of the ownership of bitcoins and these people start to manipulate it in the same way that they are manipulating other markets?

Let's discuss.

This is what is feared, but many hope that bitcoin always finds new investors. to me this is like a dilemma, on the one hand we need institutional investors to make the market grow rapidly. on the other hand they have the possibility to manipulate the market.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

OP, after reading your post I'm just left scratching my head and wondering....who are "they"?  You've ascribed some very specific characteristics to "them" (like trigger happiness), but for the life of me I can't think of what big institutional investors are essentially gambling on bitcoin as you seemingly suggest.

It's true that some hedge funds and mutual fund managers will sell a stock or whatever asset we're talking about at the first sign of weakness, but my impression is that if any hedgies or other institutional investors with deep pockets are trading in bitcoin, they're not actually doing it with bitcoin itself but with derivatives--and as far as I know, the bitcoin price that's shown on preev and other sites isn't determined by what's happening on Bakkt or the CME.  I could be wrong.

I have to laugh at everyone who's using the word "manipulation" or variations thereof.  It's funny how that word vanishes from everyone's vocabulary when bitcoin is rocketing upward, and if anyone thinks there's manipulation going on in a bull market they're certainly not complaining about  it.

[Kakmakr]

Will Bitcoin still be a Safe haven when institutional money takes over the majority of the ownership of bitcoins and these people start to manipulate it in the same way that they are manipulating other markets?

Let's discuss.

This is what is feared, but many hope that bitcoin always finds new investors. to me this is like a dilemma, on the one hand we need institutional investors to make the market grow rapidly. on the other hand they have the possibility to manipulate the market.

I am not just talking about market manipulation by institutional investors now, but rather their erratic trading behavior. We are used to Bitcoin Whales with nerves of Steel and some of them are now being replaced by Institutional investors with trigger happy sell fingers.

So, what we will see now... will be a close correlation with what is happening on the global Stock markets and not a "commodity" that goes against the mainstream movement of the global markets.  

We have always said.... Bitcoin price volatility will decline, if we can distribute bitcoins to more people and if we can avoid an increase in whales... but Institutional investors are now becoming the new Bitcoin whales.

[TheUltraElite]

We also now know that these large investors are also dipping their toes in Crypto currencies (Bitcoin) and their trigger happy behavior are also coming with them.

We cannot say with certainty due to lack of proof, that the dump or trigger happy selling is due to them. The price did stabilize after touching this week's low.

Do you think as the injection of institutional money increase, that we will see more irrational price movement that are synchronized with global market movements?

Irrational price movements have been there since the market started trading. We attempt to pin down a specific movement or trend towards a specific reason but we always lack proof here, because it gives the trader a sense of being in control. In reality we are not the ones in control of the market but only in control of our own money and how we invest it.

Will Bitcoin still be a Safe haven when institutional money takes over the majority of the ownership of bitcoins and these people start to manipulate it in the same way that they are manipulating other markets?

The safety that bitcoin gives over fiat market remains unchanged, even if institutional investors flock in. The decentralization of money remains same and the only thing that can change is the possibility of sudden movements after a long period of stagnation. But all this is about the speculation of price.

Being a safe haven or not, I never considered any investment to be a safe haven. They all have their own risks. As long as I am in profit, I am happy.

[kryptqnick]

Before major institutional investors were into Bitcoin, it was speculated that once they come, the price will finally become more stable and less prone to huge decreases. But I think that it's safe to say now that these predictions didn't become our reality. We saw how easily money can be invested and pulled out of Bitcoin with Tesla, and we saw how Bitcoin lost 50% of its value during the current bear market. But as for manipulations, I don't think it's getting worse with institutional investors. It's just not getting better. And I generally agree with mk4 regarding the whole thing of Bitcoin price being manipulated by whales or whatever it is now.

[Taskford]

Will Bitcoin still be a Safe haven when institutional money takes over the majority of the ownership of bitcoins and these people start to manipulate it in the same way that they are manipulating other markets?

Let's discuss.

This is what is feared, but many hope that bitcoin always finds new investors. to me this is like a dilemma, on the one hand we need institutional investors to make the market grow rapidly. on the other hand they have the possibility to manipulate the market.

Bitcoin will always get new investors since we know many will grab its potential and this became so famous right now since it  change the dynamics a bit on financial system and almost all knows about it already. And although we need them but for sure time will came that bitcoin will go independently without anyone could possibly manipulate it since for sure in future it can stand on its own especially when many whales or big corporations are using bitcoin.

[tabas]

They've actually helped the market to grow and it's no doubt that they've played an important part during the start of the pandemic. About them owning more bitcoins, I don't fear that. There's nothing we can do as we're already in here and saw these institutions play and even a few years ago when it's just the community and a few large corporations that were interested in bitcoin, there's already the call and accusation of manipulation. So, it's not that really new if they do the same with those companies that we've said that have also been manipulating the market.