Are Institutional investors changing the Bitcoin price behaviour?

[aysg76]

I don't think so that's the reason for the current price dips as the whole market is in red and you can't say that's manipulation.In actual there were huge investments during the last year and people invested their surplus funds or say funds they need in crypto market and btc for profits but now they are withdrawing them but the conditions again hyped by panic sellers.The alt holders have also the same faith but institutions have nothing to do with it.There are equal investment by retail investors also in bitcoin if you look at the charts but yes big players have started to invest more from two to three years in bitcoin and they can invest big amounts easily compared to retail.Here is proof for the same :

Although the involvement of institutions have grown in Bitcoin market cap but still the major portion lies with the retail and they can't manipulate the market easily so for me there are other reasons for this and it will be over soon and prices will be going up.

OP, after reading your post I'm just left scratching my head and wondering....who are "they"?  You've ascribed some very specific characteristics to "them" (like trigger happiness), but for the life of me I can't think of what big institutional investors are essentially gambling on bitcoin as you seemingly suggest.

The big institutions investors are only one or two who are playing big on bitcoin and we are familiar with them as always and these whom @OP is referring to have btc in their treasury reserves but can't think of some price manipulation by them.Here are some of the institutional investors i am aware about holds btc on their balance sheet :

Out of them only MicroStrategy is the one who is going on for investment at dips on regular basis and those who follow Saylor and btc news know this fact and they holds around 122k btc which is huge amount but if you check out in detail you would find out that they have bought them at average prices which are slightly more than the current rate.Other institutions have not invested for quite a time like Tesla or Sqaure and one time holding.

Saylor is true btc enthusiast and personally also holds more than 17k btc worth more than $600 million at this time also so see his company profits as well.The rest big institutional players he have in mind i don't know about it.

I have to laugh at everyone who's using the word "manipulation" or variations thereof.  It's funny how that word vanishes from everyone's vocabulary when bitcoin is rocketing upward, and if anyone thinks there's manipulation going on in a bull market they're certainly not complaining about  it.

The current price dump like situations may be weird for many and they might be having numerous reasons for this as this time China can't also be balmed for anything as no new FUD from them.The btc manipulation is not at all easy as you need billion dollar investment and liquidation position to move the prices and institutions investing in it should do the reverse which is price boost but that's not happening at all.They will slowly move upwards as little sign of improvement will mark the new surge in them.

[avikz]

Will Bitcoin still be a Safe haven when institutional money takes over the majority of the ownership of bitcoins and these people start to manipulate it in the same way that they are manipulating other markets?

Let's discuss.

That's the reason why I always say that too much institutional money is not good for a decentralized market like crypto. Many companies are sitting on extra cash that they would like to invest in bitcoin. But that makes bitcoin too centralized and gives them a competitive edge over the market. Because they know, they can use their influence and holding to manipulate the market.

A prime example of such behavior is Elon's support to Dogecoin. We have seen how a coin has come back from deathbed with another life and people are going crazy over it.

Crypto is all about decentralization. But unfortunately it's unregulated nature is allowing it to be manipulated by the deep procket profit mongers.

[paxmao]

The answer is absolutely yes. Firstly, it has become more stable (that is, for me, bad) but the worse thing is exactly what you hint in your post, the linking between the rest of the assets and the price of bitcoin. To be honest, there is no asset that can be free from the massive influence of the money printing by the central banks, is like using a gun against a tank and, lately, the FED and the CEB have been sending a full armoured division.

[el kaka22]

Now, we know the Bitcoin price has not been phased much, when Wall Street and global markets have shown movement. These markets are used by large investors that are very trigger happy with the slightest volatility.

I don't think anythings changed that much price strength wise since larger investors came into the bitcoin space.

I think whenever institutions start buying and selling we might see more dramatic volume increases but institutions like to compete with each other so it's likely these will be done over the counter or both executed at the same time so it might just effect the volume.

I believe that when one person holds too much money, that is a risky thing, it should not be available to hold that much for just a single person (or company. In this case the institutional investors may or may not have too much of bitcoin, but they certainly do have it for some other.

Like just to give an example, we all know Binance holds a lot of BNB right? It's their own coin, and goes back to them and quite centralized, they haven't just sold all they had on the market because that would be shooting themselves on the foot, idiotic move, and they probably won't do it but the fact that they "could" changes things. Tesla had 1.5 billion dollars worth of bitcoin, they were able to share this as a news and it increased the price of bitcoin, they then said they sold it, and the price dropped as well. So, even if the amount is not big enough to change the market, the news of it certainly big enough.

[South Park]

More irrational than what we have right now? I would think that it would be the opposite, that it would stabilize the fluctuation a bit. Primarily because investors are not the only factor that affects the price and the ups and downs. It's the sum of those factors that make up all of the turbulation that we have, but I guess that the natural evolution is in stabilization, either that or dying out.

What happens is that holders despite being part of the market by having large amounts of bitcoin are not participant on the process of rapidly buying and selling bitcoin which is where the process of price discovery happens, this means that with an even smaller amount of coins in exchanges traders can move the price of bitcoin even more easily as the supply is limited, meaning that as time passes the movements of bitcoin are now more correlated to what we see in the stock market instead of moving opposite to it, increasing the volatility of bitcoin slightly in the process.

[lixer]

The answer is absolutely yes. Firstly, it has become more stable (that is, for me, bad) but the worse thing is exactly what you hint in your post, the linking between the rest of the assets and the price of bitcoin. To be honest, there is no asset that can be free from the massive influence of the money printing by the central banks, is like using a gun against a tank and, lately, the FED and the CEB have been sending a full armoured division.

I disagree with you totally. That government is printing lots of fiat doesn’t mean that Bitcoin would lose value, how does bitcoin have anything to do with fiat? They are both different and independent on their own. Bitcoin was created to be a deflationary currency, while fiat is inflationary. So, these two are totally different. As more fiat is being printed, fiat would be the one that is losing value in this case due to inflation, while Bitcoin continues to gain more value as fiat continues to lose. That is just it.

[Poker Player]

The answer is absolutely yes. Firstly, it has become more stable (that is, for me, bad) but the worse thing is exactly what you hint in your post, the linking between the rest of the assets and the price of bitcoin. To be honest, there is no asset that can be free from the massive influence of the money printing by the central banks, is like using a gun against a tank and, lately, the FED and the CEB have been sending a full armoured division.

I disagree with you totally. That government is printing lots of fiat doesn’t mean that Bitcoin would lose value, how does bitcoin have anything to do with fiat? They are both different and independent on their own. Bitcoin was created to be a deflationary currency, while fiat is inflationary. So, these two are totally different. As more fiat is being printed, fiat would be the one that is losing value in this case due to inflation, while Bitcoin continues to gain more value as fiat continues to lose. That is just it.

The fact that two things are essentially different in nature does not prevent them from being related. In this case there is an inverse correlation: the more money printed, the higher the price of Bitcoin (in fiat terms), and now that the FED has announced that it is going to reduce the drug dosage for the junkie, the price has suffered. Bitcoin and fiat (and central bank policy) are by no means completely independent, they are related. You yourself seem to recognize this at the end of the paragraph.

[tygeade]

Do you think as the injection of institutional money increase, that we will see more irrational price movement that are synchronized with global market movements?

Will Bitcoin still be a Safe haven when institutional money takes over the majority of the ownership of bitcoins and these people start to manipulate it in the same way that they are manipulating other markets?

Would institutional investors ever be able to take over the Bitcoin market? I know that they may have a lot of money but I still doubt that they will be able to take over the whole market to the extent buying up everything. The market has so many investors, and I believe that the price will keep on increasing, so it wouldn’t be like in 2010 when someone has lots of money can buy up almost half of the market, nah things have changed this time and as time goes on it will keep on changing and the value will increasing as so many investors comes in. so whales are never getting a chance at all to do such a thing.

[bitgolden]

Do you think as the injection of institutional money increase, that we will see more irrational price movement that are synchronized with global market movements?

Will Bitcoin still be a Safe haven when institutional money takes over the majority of the ownership of bitcoins and these people start to manipulate it in the same way that they are manipulating other markets?

Would institutional investors ever be able to take over the Bitcoin market? I know that they may have a lot of money but I still doubt that they will be able to take over the whole market to the extent buying up everything. The market has so many investors, and I believe that the price will keep on increasing, so it wouldn’t be like in 2010 when someone has lots of money can buy up almost half of the market, nah things have changed this time and as time goes on it will keep on changing and the value will increasing as so many investors comes in. so whales are never getting a chance at all to do such a thing.

We can't say that they are completely combined together forever. Even though we can't say they are irrelevant like you said, we also can't say that they are not independent ab it neither, and I believe that we are in a situation where they would be affected by each other but that is about it.

Prices are of course related to each other, when one does one thing the other follows and so forth but price is not the only thing in the world that we care about. I care about the decentralization, as long as the coin I buy is decentralized (funny enough, I own bnb.. go figure) then I am fine, and fiat does not have that. This is why we could say they are a bit different as well.

[Gozie51]

Will Bitcoin still be a Safe haven when institutional money takes over the majority of the ownership of bitcoins and these people start to manipulate it in the same way that they are manipulating other markets?

Let's discuss.

This is serious question and a food for thought but the point is if any body can stop it? This is possible to happen but who could tell the degree of manipulation that can go on if it will be greater than the current manipulation or lesser but I know it that institutional hodlers are expects in business and all out for profit that means we could also see higher price because demand will increase when products not available.

[South Park]

Do you think as the injection of institutional money increase, that we will see more irrational price movement that are synchronized with global market movements?

Will Bitcoin still be a Safe haven when institutional money takes over the majority of the ownership of bitcoins and these people start to manipulate it in the same way that they are manipulating other markets?

Would institutional investors ever be able to take over the Bitcoin market? I know that they may have a lot of money but I still doubt that they will be able to take over the whole market to the extent buying up everything. The market has so many investors, and I believe that the price will keep on increasing, so it wouldn’t be like in 2010 when someone has lots of money can buy up almost half of the market, nah things have changed this time and as time goes on it will keep on changing and the value will increasing as so many investors comes in. so whales are never getting a chance at all to do such a thing.

It is not on their best interests to do something like this, after all if they bought all the bitcoin around the world and bitcoin did not circulate as no one was using it as money then the whole reason for bitcoin to exist will be denied and then it would become useless, not that the scenario that you are putting forward will ever happen, after all the more the demand of something increases the higher its price, so it does  not mater how much money institutional investors may have, their dollars would buy less and less bitcoin if they tried to buy all the bitcoin that is in circulation.

[eaLiTy]

~
Do you think as the injection of institutional money increase, that we will see more irrational price movement that are synchronized with global market movements?

It all depends upon how much money is pumped into the market and if you consider the cryptocurrency market as an asset then they will not synchronize the global stock market to the cryptocurrency market, instead i expect them to hedge over the other in case of one market is tumbling and wise versa.

Will Bitcoin still be a Safe haven when institutional money takes over the majority of the ownership of bitcoins and these people start to manipulate it in the same way that they are manipulating other markets?

This is the most volatile market in the entire financial sector and unlike other markets where you can really understand certain market movements it is not possible to even predict when a market moved in the cryptocurrency space as it is purely speculative in nature and nothing else. You cannot call a speculative market a safe heaven according to any economic standards .

[Captain Corporate]

 Considering we just did a %10 in a very quick period of time and then a bit more later, do you think that it was all retail investors? I believe that this is the exact impact of the corporations who put money into crypto, all those hedge funds and companies and so forth that buys bitcoin could do it in big big numbers, like billions of dollars easily. Just the gamestop chaos showed us that big hedge funds could get together to have billions of dollars thrown out to garbage to show their power. So when they all buy at the same time, or even one big one buys, then the price could go up very quickly, then retail will see the pump and have FOMO and buy some more to increase it some more.

[AmoreJaz]

~
Do you think as the injection of institutional money increase, that we will see more irrational price movement that are synchronized with global market movements?

It all depends upon how much money is pumped into the market and if you consider the cryptocurrency market as an asset then they will not synchronize the global stock market to the cryptocurrency market, instead i expect them to hedge over the other in case of one market is tumbling and wise versa.

Will Bitcoin still be a Safe haven when institutional money takes over the majority of the ownership of bitcoins and these people start to manipulate it in the same way that they are manipulating other markets?

This is the most volatile market in the entire financial sector and unlike other markets where you can really understand certain market movements it is not possible to even predict when a market moved in the cryptocurrency space as it is purely speculative in nature and nothing else. You cannot call a speculative market a safe heaven according to any economic standards .

very well-said. i don't think we can consider the crypto market or btc market to be a safe haven for your investments. up until now, volatility is one major attraction why people are going into crypto. this is where they are taking their chances to earn good profits if you know what you're doing, but will suffer a loss if you made a mistake with your trading strategy. this is by no means can be categorised as safe haven.
on the other hand, institutional investors are giving some sort of assurance to crypto users that bitcoin will stay and continue to grow its market.

[Gyfts]

Now, we know the Bitcoin price has not been phased much, when Wall Street and global markets have shown movement. These markets are used by large investors that are very trigger happy with the slightest volatility.

I don't think anythings changed that much price strength wise since larger investors came into the bitcoin space.

I think whenever institutions start buying and selling we might see more dramatic volume increases but institutions like to compete with each other so it's likely these will be done over the counter or both executed at the same time so it might just effect the volume.

This couldn't be further from true. The larger players, ie institutional investors could divest from Bitcoin and sink the price because of the lack of mass adoption. Large part of the growth over the last two years were large investment firms and private companies dumping their assets into crypto.

Tesla isn't an institutional financial firm, but to get an idea of their influence, Elon Musk can send one tweet regarding Tesla's bitcoin stockpile, and it would send the price tumbling.


If the financial guys were to all pull out for whatever reason, the impact would be huge.

[RealMalatesta]

Will Bitcoin still be a Safe haven when institutional money takes over the majority of the ownership of bitcoins and these people start to manipulate it in the same way that they are manipulating other markets?

If you feel that other markets are candidate to manipulation by institutions then bitcoin as well a candidate to them, we cannot do anything about that. Moreover, bitcoin market is a complete open market (it is like some countries stock markets do follow a practice of phasing their trading for few hours if market falls certain percentage within a day which is definitely not possible in bitcoin market), hence you cannot think about zero manipulations.

In my opinion, manipulations are just part of every market hence change of behaviour of fluctuations of bitcoin market due to intuitions is definitely normal one and we must need to get used to it as influence of intuitions will get more intensified in coming days in entire crypto space.

[South Park]

Will Bitcoin still be a Safe haven when institutional money takes over the majority of the ownership of bitcoins and these people start to manipulate it in the same way that they are manipulating other markets?

If you feel that other markets are candidate to manipulation by institutions then bitcoin as well a candidate to them, we cannot do anything about that. Moreover, bitcoin market is a complete open market (it is like some countries stock markets do follow a practice of phasing their trading for few hours if market falls certain percentage within a day which is definitely not possible in bitcoin market), hence you cannot think about zero manipulations.

In my opinion, manipulations are just part of every market hence change of behaviour of fluctuations of bitcoin market due to intuitions is definitely normal one and we must need to get used to it as influence of intuitions will get more intensified in coming days in entire crypto space.

As you said most markets go through periods of manipulation, after all if an entity is big enough to do this then it would be naive to think they are not going to take advantage of it, however while in centralized markets rules and regulations are born to try to hinder this, in the market of cryptocurrencies that very same freedom that allows an actor to attempt to manipulate the price if they want allows another actor which is even more powerful to do the opposite and beat the manipulator at their own game.

[Lanatsa]

Will Bitcoin still be a Safe haven when institutional money takes over the majority of the ownership of bitcoins and these people start to manipulate it in the same way that they are manipulating other markets?

If you feel that other markets are candidate to manipulation by institutions then bitcoin as well a candidate to them, we cannot do anything about that. Moreover, bitcoin market is a complete open market (it is like some countries stock markets do follow a practice of phasing their trading for few hours if market falls certain percentage within a day which is definitely not possible in bitcoin market), hence you cannot think about zero manipulations.

In my opinion, manipulations are just part of every market hence change of behaviour of fluctuations of bitcoin market due to intuitions is definitely normal one and we must need to get used to it as influence of intuitions will get more intensified in coming days in entire crypto space.

As you said most markets go through periods of manipulation, after all if an entity is big enough to do this then it would be naive to think they are not going to take advantage of it, however while in centralized markets rules and regulations are born to try to hinder this, in the market of cryptocurrencies that very same freedom that allows an actor to attempt to manipulate the price if they want allows another actor which is even more powerful to do the opposite and beat the manipulator at their own game.

When it comes to manipulation then there would be no exemption whether you are dealing with centralized or decentralized things as long there's a market then there would be always the tendency that

these big guys would really be taking advantage on the market via manipulation which we should really be looking it upon and you should take your decisions carefully.

This market is a bit decentralized on which funds could really come and go easily without those hindrance compared on centralized platforms.

[DOH!]

Manipulation - that is definitely a risk for bitcoin and the crypto space.  Not necessarily institutional investors like MicroStrategy, Tesla, ....  but also possibly an association, rapidly changing price behavior is also part of the reason for this.

[South Park]

As you said most markets go through periods of manipulation, after all if an entity is big enough to do this then it would be naive to think they are not going to take advantage of it, however while in centralized markets rules and regulations are born to try to hinder this, in the market of cryptocurrencies that very same freedom that allows an actor to attempt to manipulate the price if they want allows another actor which is even more powerful to do the opposite and beat the manipulator at their own game.

When it comes to manipulation then there would be no exemption whether you are dealing with centralized or decentralized things as long there's a market then there would be always the tendency that

these big guys would really be taking advantage on the market via manipulation which we should really be looking it upon and you should take your decisions carefully.

This market is a bit decentralized on which funds could really come and go easily without those hindrance compared on centralized platforms.

The main difference are the regulations, in a centralized market governments can set rules for economic actors to follow, we know they will try their best to find loopholes but at least in theory there are some impediments in their path so they cannot easily do this, in this market such a thing is not possible due to its decentralized nature, however I prefer it this way, this market is really free and we know that free markets will always outperform controlled markets, which in part explains the incredible growth we have seen in this market during the last decade.