ㅤ

[Symmetrick]

ㅤ

[1715470675]

1715470675

[1715470675]

1715470675

[Smartvirus]

Apparently, many users and that doesn't exclude myself seems to confer some level of trust on bitcoin derived cryptocurrencies as some of them act like bitcoin pegged coins and as such, its likely usage is often on the rise. Though, there is a few thing I don't understand and would want some clarification in respect of this piece you just posted.

Are you saying, Bitcoin and bitcoin derived coins have got some inverse relationship?

When it comes to market manipulation of this sort, basically geared at triggering the stop-loss, isn't there some policy that prohibits this manipulation from being done at all?

How can traders identify if possible, when this manipulations are about or being done?

[Smartvirus]

The crypto market is the wild west. Crypto exchanges trade against their client. How can you prove that it was price manipulation, when you do not see the whole picture of trading?  If you look at the history of such disputes, sometimes large traders try to challenge the actions of the exchange. But how many of these lawsuits have been approved in full and not dismissed? And I'm talking about big lawsuits. All sorts of small traders ... there is no chance at all.

That's truly some Wild West as all the prove you need is with the very people you are trying to place a lawsuit over and definitely, no one or company would provide an evidence that would bring them to loose a court case and pay a heavy fine. Its understandable at that hut the right thing should be, an exchange or its agents shouldn't be involved in any form of trading activities.

Some gambling site in my locality do this and they do there best to enforce it as a rule when noted though, that doesn't stop soem agents from gambling either ways. As, no one knows what you do on your device in your free-time but this one is worst. As its the exchange themselves not putting in place these regulations and themselves doing the trading for which they can't loose. Reason why bitcoin stays true and hodling on a non custodial wallet could be a way to truly secure your BTC portfolio.

[jackg]

Apparently, many users and that doesn't exclude myself seems to confer some level of trust on bitcoin derived cryptocurrencies as some of them act like bitcoin pegged coins and as such, its likely usage is often on the rise. Though, there is a few thing I don't understand and would want some clarification in respect of this piece you just posted.

Are you saying, Bitcoin and bitcoin derived coins have got some inverse relationship?

A lot of exchanges claim to attempt to peg the coins to a market index (eg bybit and bitmex use indexes for liquidation).

This is kinda helpful to stop this sort of manipulation but it doesn't stop all and there was a binance wick that was quite disputed a while ago because of how big it was (I'm not entirely sure how long ago it was but the price fell much more on binance's exchange and a lot more people got liquidated than reasonably should've - that being said some derivatives markets do protect themselves against such data but I've not seen that in action and I think it has to be sustained for the exchange to do anything).

Additionally, even if you're liquidated based on what the market is doing as an overall index, you're still selling to the market. If the position closing bot has a few delays or just decides not to function for a few minutes, you might end up being liquidated anyway.

[hatshepsut93]

Take care of your bitcoins and don't let them be liquidated. No leverage - only HODL !!!

This message needs to be spread to everyone in this community. Social media are full of posts and communities like wallstreetbets that promote reckless gambling with high leverage and create an illusion that this is easy money. And then people who just finished reading a book on trading deposit their life savings and lose them in very short time. It doesn't even matter what you trade in that way, Bitcoin or shitcoins or stocks or commodities, it is very likely to ruin any beginner.

[Poker Player]

The low supply of bitcoin on the exchanges will perfectly complement the derivatives markets, which are constantly growing and multiplying. Take care of your bitcoins and don't let them be liquidated. No leverage - only HODL !!!

I see this with a parallel to the stock market, in which I have been investing for many years. A high-quality company may suffer short-term fluctuations due to derivatives, leverage or short positions, but in the long run it always wins. Weak companies, heavily indebted companies, are the ones that can go bankrupt due to leverage.

In this case, I believe that Bitcoin will continue to rise in the long term, regardless of the level of market leverage and derivatives. Many shitcoins are the ones that will end up dying.

[JeromeTash]

The exchange is the same casino where users, for the most part, lose. The exchange always makes money on customers, like a casino. Ideally, the exchange should be just an agent that provides a platform where the buyer and seller will meet. And for this operation, she takes a percentage of the transaction amount.

But in reality, this is a full-fledged bidder at home, and we are her guests. The exchange sees everything, and we see almost nothing, as a result, users lose money because they are trying to trade against the exchange, against a centralized system that is designed in such a way as to take money, not give it away.

The common knowledge is derivatives exchanges make money via trading fees, but I don't want to say such exchanges are the same as casinos because the way a casino operates is a little different.

Derivatives exchange -  Traders betting against each other
Casino - gamblers betting against the casino

If you lose money in an exchange, it means some smart or manipulative trader on the other side has made profits.

[JeromeTash]

I say that exchanges, like casinos, always earn and always play against their client. I didn't say that trading is like a casino.

That's what casinos do, Play against their clients/gamblers. I don't know what you misunderstood from here

Derivatives exchange -  Traders betting against each other
Casino - gamblers betting against the casino

The statement that exchanges earn on commissions is a delusion.

They do, and you see your trading fees getting chopped. Otherwise, if they didn't then why would they keep cutting off those trading fees?

Derivative exchanges make money from market making, which encourages liquidations or stop losses. The income from commissions serves more to maintain the infrastructure, rather than to earn money. The main earnings are obtained due to the fact that derivatives exchanges liquidate deposits from their users due to their greed (when they use high leverage) and inexperience.

You make it sound like exchanges are the "only ones market making", that's if you claims are even true because you haven't shown us an instance where exchanges have acted as market markers and earned money continuously via market marking. Are you trying to say market makers don't get liquidated if the market swings in the opposite direction?

So according to your scenario, exchanges such as FTX, Bybit, Binance, Coinbase Pro, Bitfinex will coordinate to act as market markers while all of them shorting at ago so that the market drops, and they earn while all "normal" traders trying to long lose out via liquidations?

The comparisons you're trying to draw are not even close to how casino operate, if that was your intention.